[gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.

[gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.

[burlingk]

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Due to issues with some of the software I am wanting to run, when it is
run under the AMD64 bit version of Gentoo (one of which is Blender,
which I hope will be properly stable soon), I am planning to run x86
Gentoo (With the i686 stage3) on an AMD64 processor.
 
My question is this, If I enabel 64 bit support in the kernel, is that
likely to cause any issues with running the 32bit compiled software?
 
 
V/r
RP3(SW) Burling
Religious Ministries
x4502
 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Friday 25 May 2007 02:12:49 burlingk@cv63.navy.mil wrote:
> My question is this, If I enabel 64 bit support in the kernel,

You mean run a 64-bit kernel with 32-bit support.  There's no such thing as a 
32-bit kernel with 64-bit support (at least not in x86-land).

> is that 
> likely to cause any issues with running the 32bit compiled software?

No, it won't, but it's a little bit tricky to set up.  You'll want to use an 
i686 stage3, and set ARCH to x86 or ~x86.  Then, you'll have to install a 
cross compiler (and binutils, IIRC) and cross-compile your kernel.

You could always just use a 32-bit kernel.  Do you have 3G or more RAM or need 
to run 64-bit programs?

-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.                     ,= ,-_-. =. 
bss03@volumehost.net                      ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy           `-'(. .)`-' 
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RE: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.

[burlingk]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [mailto:bss03@volumehost.net] 
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 5:07 PM
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the 
> Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.
> 
> 
> On Friday 25 May 2007 02:12:49 burlingk@cv63.navy.mil wrote:
> > My question is this, If I enabel 64 bit support in the kernel,
> 
> You mean run a 64-bit kernel with 32-bit support.  There's no 
> such thing as a 
> 32-bit kernel with 64-bit support (at least not in x86-land).
> 
> > is that
> > likely to cause any issues with running the 32bit compiled software?
> 
> No, it won't, but it's a little bit tricky to set up.  You'll 
> want to use an 
> i686 stage3, and set ARCH to x86 or ~x86.  Then, you'll have 
> to install a 
> cross compiler (and binutils, IIRC) and cross-compile your kernel.
> 
> You could always just use a 32-bit kernel.  Do you have 3G or 
> more RAM or need 
> to run 64-bit programs?

So, unless I need the upper memory support, it may be better for me to
just not click the flag for 64bit memory support, and move on?

This is on a laptop, and it is not a critical system (i.e. it is not
going to require that I get those last few dredges of CPU time out of
the system).  The main things it will be used for until I build my next
system is dataprocessing, and Pencil and Paper gaming.  I plan to
install a couple graphics related apps to mess with and practice with as
well. :P

I'm not exactly the average user, but I will be using it for average
user level work, so it doesn't HAVE to have 64 bit support. :P  From
what I understand, the processor handles 32 bit emulation just fine.
(It was running Windows XP fine until a runin with the emphamous Gentoo
GTK installer.)

:P  I'm not blaming the software though.  The Walkthrough, and the
readme both warn that it is experimental.  ^^;;  Then there is the fact
that I had just butted a 700MB CD, that loaded a compressed file system
into 512MB of ram, and told it to load a GUI, and a GUI driven install
system. *shrugs*  Live and learn, and kick yourself when you do
something stupid. :P

^_^



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Re: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Friday 25 May 2007 04:09:00 burlingk@cv63.navy.mil wrote:
> So, unless I need the upper memory support, it may be better for me to
> just not click the flag for 64bit memory support, and move on?

IIRC, that's for PAE, which you definitely shouldn't use unless you have 4G of 
RAM or greater.

Ticking that box doesn't make your kernel 64-bit though, anymore than 
supporting 64-bit file offsets makes a kernel 64-bit.

-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.                     ,= ,-_-. =. 
bss03@volumehost.net                      ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy           `-'(. .)`-' 
http://iguanasuicide.org/                      \_/     

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RE: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.

[burlingk]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [mailto:bss03@volumehost.net] 
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 6:28 PM
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the 
> Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.
> 
> 
> On Friday 25 May 2007 04:09:00 burlingk@cv63.navy.mil wrote:
> > So, unless I need the upper memory support, it may be 
> better for me to 
> > just not click the flag for 64bit memory support, and move on?
> 
> IIRC, that's for PAE, which you definitely shouldn't use 
> unless you have 4G of 
> RAM or greater.
> 
> Ticking that box doesn't make your kernel 64-bit though, anymore than 
> supporting 64-bit file offsets makes a kernel 64-bit.
> 

What makes the difference between a 64 bit kernel, and a 32 bit kernel?
 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Friday 25 May 2007 04:53:26 burlingk@cv63.navy.mil wrote:
> What makes the difference between a 64 bit kernel, and a 32 bit kernel?

Use of 64-bit machine code [*], particularly instructions that make use of 
64-bit native[**] registers[***].

* Defining this is more difficult, since that does not mean instruction 
requiring 64-bits to represent as many architectures have variable length 
instructions.

** Native is a difficult term to define, but I'm explicitly excluding the 
floating-point registers that have been 64-bit or 80-bit from my vague notion 
of native

*** I guess this makes the Cell processor 128-bit?  BTW, if the 
term "register" doesn't mean anything to you it's the fastest memory in your 
computer, closer to the ALU (etc.) than L1 cache, very small and expensive 
that are addressed differently than all other memory.

-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.                     ,= ,-_-. =. 
bss03@volumehost.net                      ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy           `-'(. .)`-' 
http://iguanasuicide.org/                      \_/     

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Re: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.

[Denis]

> > What makes the difference between a 64 bit kernel, and a 32 bit kernel?
>
> Use of 64-bit machine code [*], particularly instructions that make use of
> 64-bit native[**] registers[***].

Is there any slowdown for the 64-bit set-up when it has to run 32-bit software?

Aside from not having the 64-bit Flash for Firefox, are most popular
packages in Gentoo portage 64-bit compatible?
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Re: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.

[Florian Philipp]

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Am Freitag 25 Mai 2007 14:31 schrieb Denis:
> > > What makes the difference between a 64 bit kernel, and a 32 bit kernel?
> >
> > Use of 64-bit machine code [*], particularly instructions that make use
> > of 64-bit native[**] registers[***].
>
> Is there any slowdown for the 64-bit set-up when it has to run 32-bit
> software?
>
> Aside from not having the 64-bit Flash for Firefox, are most popular
> packages in Gentoo portage 64-bit compatible?

There is no additional slow down for AMD64 / EM64T since it's (simplified) 
just a normal 86 with some extra registers and instructions to handle them.* 

There are some annoyances (for example Google Earth doesn't start at the 
moment) but I don't miss anything else. And concerning flash: There are ways 
to work around it (somewhere in the wiki, look for an AMD64-Howto). 

* simplified

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RE: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.

[burlingk]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Denis [mailto:denis.che@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:32 PM
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the 
> Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.
> 
> 
> > > What makes the difference between a 64 bit kernel, and a 32 bit 
> > > kernel?
> >
> > Use of 64-bit machine code [*], particularly instructions that make 
> > use of 64-bit native[**] registers[***].
> 
> Is there any slowdown for the 64-bit set-up when it has to 
> run 32-bit software?
> 
> Aside from not having the 64-bit Flash for Firefox, are most 
> popular packages in Gentoo portage 64-bit compatible?
> -- 

A lot of the AMD64 packages are masked as unstable.
There are a lot of stable packages, but there are enough unstable ones
to be a pain. When things are masked, there is a reason.  For instance,
the reason that Blender is masked, is because it does messed up things
to the save files in the AMD64 version.

With any luck, by the time I build my next real machine, many of the
issues will be resolved.  :P  AMD64 is a popular architecture, so it
has a lot of people stomping bugs. ^_^




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Re: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.

[Peter Alfredsen]

On Friday 25 May 2007, burlingk@cv63.navy.mil wrote:
> For instance,
> the reason that Blender is masked, is because it does messed up things
> to the save files in the AMD64 version.

http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-244/64-bits-support/
^Not anymore.

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/PA
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RE: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.

[burlingk]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Alfredsen [mailto:peter.alfredsen@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 10:55 PM
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the 
> Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.
> 
> 
> On Friday 25 May 2007, burlingk@cv63.navy.mil wrote:
> > For instance,
> > the reason that Blender is masked, is because it does 
> messed up things 
> > to the save files in the AMD64 version.
> 
>
http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-244/64-bits-supp
ort/
> ^Not anymore.


Has this migrated it's way to the portage tree yet?
I am not in a position to check. ^^;;
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Re: [gentoo-user] Semi OT: 64 bit processors, the Linux Kernel, and x86 Gentoo.

[Peter Alfredsen]

> http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-244/64-bits-supp
> ort/
>
> > ^Not anymore.
>
> Has this migrated it's way to the portage tree yet?
> I am not in a position to check. ^^;;

Yes.
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