Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Sascha Hlusiak]

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>   I heard of that using emerge --sync frequently may hert my hard-disk,
>   so I don't have a try --sync quite often(maybe once a month), but how can
> I know whether I really need a sync and upgrade my system if a new kernel
> or glibc is realised? Is there a simple and quick method?

You could have a look at packages.gentoo.org from time to time, to see the 
recently updated packages and if you like one, you can emerge --sync.

That's what I do to not sync, when there is no major upgrade.


- Sascha

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Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Fabio]

Well, when I started with Gentoo Linux almost a year ago, I emerged
--sync more than twice per week. I never experimented any damage or
error. However, I do not advise people to do it so frequently just
because they will not find updated versions of their favorite packages
as often as I thought initially. Today I emerge --sync once every
week.

Now I advise people to keep their systems synced at least once a
month, not because their machine necessarily needs to, but because
after much time with no emerging --sync, you'd see your computers
spending one or two days downloading and compiling the updated
packages, and that is really annoying.

Here is a suggestion to have painless updates:

emerge --sync
emerge --update --deep world

the --deep flag will ensure a throughly revision of dependencies.

> How can I know whether I really need a sync and upgrade my system if a new kernel or glibc is released?

There are several guidelines no one really invented, but may be handy:
o Whenever you find a bug in your favorite programs, there will be a
big chance they are fixed in the latest versions;
o Whenever you navigate a forum or post in a mailing list asking for
help with your favorite programs, there is a low-to-moderate chance
you get the answer "That only works with version x.x.x or above" or so
o From time to time, new programs are added to the Portage tree and
someday you will find yourself wanting to give a try to a program you
do not have in your machines' tree.
o If you need to have your machine secured against vulnerabilities,
you definitely need to emerge --sync every two weeks at least.
o When a new kernel version is released, there is no need to update
everything. Actually, what I remember is that I just emerge the new
kernel version, compile and reboot.
o When a new glibc version is released, there is a number of packages
directly depending on it being updated, but no so many. So this one is
not really a guideline.

Sascha's method is easier. Credits to her.

Sincerely,

-- 
Fabio A. Correa D.

Physics Dept, Universidad Nacional, Bogota, Colombia
facorread@gmail.com
ffaaccdd@yahoo.co.uk         facorread@unal.edu.co
My webpage and OpenPGP key at http://facorread.150m.com
My alexandria.cc address is not available anymore.
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Ryan Sims]

On 4/13/07, anhnmncb@gmail.com <anhnmncb@gmail.com> wrote:
> hello,
>   I heard of that using emerge --sync frequently may hert my hard-disk.

This sounds like juju.  Did your source provide numbers in support of
this conclusion, or is it just concern about hard drive thrashing?

If there is a documented causal relationship between too-often syncs
and hard drive failure, I (and probably lots of other people) would be
interested to see it.  Personally, I would be skeptical that even
daily syncs would do significant damage to a drive in good condition
(all other things being equal).

-- 
Ryan W Sims
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Ryan Sims]

On 4/13/07, anhnmncb@gmail.com <anhnmncb@gmail.com> wrote:
> hello,
>   I heard of that using emerge --sync frequently may hert my hard-disk.

This sounds like juju.  Did your source provide numbers in support of
this conclusion, or is it just concern about hard drive thrashing?

If there is a documented causal relationship between too-often syncs
and hard drive failure, I (and probably lots of other people) would be
interested to see it.  Personally, I would be skeptical that even
daily syncs would do significant damage to a drive in good condition
(all other things being equal).

-- 
Ryan W Sims
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Daniel da Veiga]

On 4/13/07, Ryan Sims <rwsims@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/13/07, anhnmncb@gmail.com <anhnmncb@gmail.com> wrote:
> > hello,
> >   I heard of that using emerge --sync frequently may hert my hard-disk.
>
> This sounds like juju.  Did your source provide numbers in support of
> this conclusion, or is it just concern about hard drive thrashing?
>
> If there is a documented causal relationship between too-often syncs
> and hard drive failure, I (and probably lots of other people) would be
> interested to see it.  Personally, I would be skeptical that even
> daily syncs would do significant damage to a drive in good condition
> (all other things being equal).
>

I have a setup with 3 machines, 1 with very OLD HDs. I'm behind a
firewall, so I can't use rsync protocol over the web, I download a
portage snapshot daily and use local rsync, the 2 other machines use
the one synced locally as rsync server over the lan.

Believe me, in 2 years I've seen no problem with my hard drives with a
daily sync. And the machines are all servers, so they're up pretty
much 24/7 (just reboot in case of power failure for more than 2 hours,
that's when the no-break goes off).

-- 
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V-
PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
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Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Friday 13 April 2007 17:46:42 Fabio wrote:
> Now I advise people to keep their systems synced at least once a
> month, not because their machine necessarily needs to, but because
> after much time with no emerging --sync, you'd see your computers
> spending one or two days downloading and compiling the updated
> packages, and that is really annoying.

Policy says that for a package to be removed from the tree it needs to be in 
package.mask for 30 days. Therefore if you sync less often than every 30 days 
you risk that a package you are using gets removed without you ever seeing 
the masking (and later removal) reason.

-- 
Bo Andresen

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Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:46:42 -0500, Fabio wrote:

> Well, when I started with Gentoo Linux almost a year ago, I emerged
> --sync more than twice per week. I never experimented any damage or
> error.

I have a system here that rsyncs with three other computers every hour
and the disk is still good after several years, so the traffic
from a paltry portage sync should do nothing but give the disk a
little healthy exercise.

> However, I do not advise people to do it so frequently just
> because they will not find updated versions of their favorite packages
> as often as I thought initially.

Unless they run a ~ARCH system, when packages are updated far more
frequently.

> Here is a suggestion to have painless updates:
> 
> emerge --sync
> emerge --update --deep world

I would add --ask the the latter command to further reduce the chance of
pain. Replacing a week or two's worth of packages without even checking
to see whether anything important is going to be touched is asking for
trouble.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Borg -- James Borg -- licensed to assimilate.

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Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Hans-Werner Hilse]

Hi,

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 18:45:04 +0100
Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:46:42 -0500, Fabio wrote:
> 
> > Well, when I started with Gentoo Linux almost a year ago, I emerged
> > --sync more than twice per week. I never experimented any damage or
> > error.
> 
> I have a system here that rsyncs with three other computers every hour
> and the disk is still good after several years, so the traffic
> from a paltry portage sync should do nothing but give the disk a
> little healthy exercise.

I like this theory. I think bad blocks on HD's (and I guess noone here
is talking about flash disks or writable DVD media) occur almost
independent of usage. So if bad blocks occur, there might be a big
chance that it happens in a portage sync simply because there's a lot
of file writing/deleting and thus there's a bigger chance that it
happens in that moments. If that was true, it is likely that the errors
hit portage's files with a probability that corresponds to the
percentage of sync (and due to the "test": emerge) I/O vs. general IO.
On a gentoo system, there's probably a lot of disk I/O simply because
of portage. This might explain why there's that feeling that a sync
might hurt.

And, the good side of things: If this theory holds valid, the errors
are likely to hit portage -- not all that bad, a resync and
everything's fine again :-) The harddisk will cure the problem by
allocating spare sectors (as long as available).

-hwh
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Dan Farrell]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:05:55 +0000
anhnmncb@gmail.com wrote:

> hello,
>   I heard of that using emerge --sync frequently may hert my
> hard-disk, so I don't have a try --sync quite often(maybe once a
> month), but how can I know whether I really need a sync and upgrade
> my system if a new kernel or glibc is realised? Is there a simple and
> quick method?
> 
>   Thank you for any advices.
> 
My home portage server - up 24/7 - syncs daily and is just fine.
Furthermore, rsync is just another program, accessing the hard drive in
the same old way, and isn't a very effective way of breaking hard
drives.  Anyway, if you're worried about your hard drive, try setting
it up to spin down frequently with hdparm when not in use.  That can
extend the life expectancy of commodity drives especially -- many
consumer-end disk drives are not meant to spin more than 8 hours or so
every day.  
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Neil Walker]

anhnmncb@gmail.com wrote:
>   I heard of that using emerge --sync frequently may hert my hard-disk

My network server has been doing a daily "emerge --sync" for 4 years 
now. Hasn't died yet. FWIW, simply running Windows puts far more strain 
on the HD than doing a daily sync in Gentoo ever will. Just watch the HD 
LED on a Windows system that isn't even doing anything sometime.


Be lucky,

Neil

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[anhnmncb]

hello,
  I heard of that using emerge --sync frequently may hert my hard-disk,
  so I don't have a try --sync quite often(maybe once a month), but how can I know whether I really
  need a sync and upgrade my system if a new kernel or glibc is realised? Is there a simple and quick method?

  Thank you for any advices.

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Mick]

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On Friday 13 April 2007 20:35, Neil Walker wrote:
> anhnmncb@gmail.com wrote:
> >   I heard of that using emerge --sync frequently may hert my hard-disk
>
> My network server has been doing a daily "emerge --sync" for 4 years
> now. Hasn't died yet. FWIW, simply running Windows puts far more strain
> on the HD than doing a daily sync in Gentoo ever will. Just watch the HD
> LED on a Windows system that isn't even doing anything sometime.

It usually is doing something: scanning the drives for viruses using some 
abominable bloatware virus scanner application; indexing files (like updatedb 
in Linux); defraging the drives when the screen saver kicks in.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Thomas Tuttle]

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On April 16 at 06:46 EDT, Alan McKinnon hastily scribbled:
> On Friday 13 April 2007, Ryan Sims wrote:
> > On 4/13/07, anhnmncb@gmail.com <anhnmncb@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > hello,
> > >   I heard of that using emerge --sync frequently may hert my
> > > hard-disk.
> 
> Uninformed idiots who tell you total garbage like that ought to be shot. 
> No, they ought to be hung, drawn, quartered and their corpses hung out 
> on a stick to be picked clean by crows.

I apologize for butting in, but this is actually possible if you are
using a Flash memory medium, such as a CompactFlash card or a USB pen
drive, for the filesystem containing Portage.  It is true, as you said,
that syncing often will cause no harm to a "normal" hard disk.

> Seriously, I spend half my days on support debunking just this kind of 
> twaddle.

...and scaring off users who passed it (probably just because they
misunderstood or misinterpreted something) by replying like this.

Please, be nice.

--Thomas Tuttle

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Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Ryan Sims]

On 4/16/07, Thomas Tuttle <gentoo@ttuttle.net> wrote:
> On April 16 at 06:46 EDT, Alan McKinnon hastily scribbled:
> > On Friday 13 April 2007, Ryan Sims wrote:
> > > On 4/13/07, anhnmncb@gmail.com <anhnmncb@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > hello,
> > > >   I heard of that using emerge --sync frequently may hert my
> > > > hard-disk.
> >
> > Uninformed idiots who tell you total garbage like that ought to be shot.
> > No, they ought to be hung, drawn, quartered and their corpses hung out
> > on a stick to be picked clean by crows.
>
> I apologize for butting in, but this is actually possible if you are
> using a Flash memory medium, such as a CompactFlash card or a USB pen
> drive, for the filesystem containing Portage.  It is true, as you said,
> that syncing often will cause no harm to a "normal" hard disk.
>
> > Seriously, I spend half my days on support debunking just this kind of
> > twaddle.
>
> ...and scaring off users who passed it (probably just because they
> misunderstood or misinterpreted something) by replying like this.
>
> Please, be nice.
>
> --Thomas Tuttle
>

While perhaps expressed in a harsh way, I think Alan's frustration is
understandable.  There is a lot of bad information out there, on
subjects from CFLAGS to hard drive failure to toolchain rebuilds,
based on hearsay and rumor rather than testing and understanding.
When there are people posting bad advice based on misunderstanding and
users accepting alarmist statements without checking facts or
questioning sources, we get a lot of static on b.g.o, this list and
the forums.

Perhaps a more polite (but less emotionally satisfying ;) ) response
is: don't just accept advice because its scary or kewl.  If someone's
promising performance gains or warning about damage risks, ask for
real numbers/research, not just hype or alarmism.

My 2cents worth.  Hopefully I didn't come across as insulting, but I
do think that a little more health skepticism in the gentoo user base
(and indeed the world at large) would be A Good Thing (tm).

-- 
Ryan W Sims
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Uwe Thiem]

On 16 April 2007, Thomas Tuttle wrote:
> On April 16 at 06:46 EDT, Alan McKinnon hastily scribbled:
> > On Friday 13 April 2007, Ryan Sims wrote:
> > > On 4/13/07, anhnmncb@gmail.com <anhnmncb@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > hello,
> > > >   I heard of that using emerge --sync frequently may hert my
> > > > hard-disk.
> >
> > Uninformed idiots who tell you total garbage like that ought to be shot.
> > No, they ought to be hung, drawn, quartered and their corpses hung out
> > on a stick to be picked clean by crows.
>
> I apologize for butting in, but this is actually possible if you are
> using a Flash memory medium, such as a CompactFlash card or a USB pen
> drive, for the filesystem containing Portage.  It is true, as you said,
> that syncing often will cause no harm to a "normal" hard disk.

Same as *any* writing activity. So no, this doesn't count as "emerge --sync 
huts the harddisk". ;-)

>
> > Seriously, I spend half my days on support debunking just this kind of
> > twaddle.
>
> ...and scaring off users who passed it (probably just because they
> misunderstood or misinterpreted something) by replying like this.

Alan was quite right. As I said in and earlier response: Emerge --sync hurts 
your harddrive as much as driving your car hurts your tyres.

Uwe

-- 
The Informal Linux Group Namibia:
http://www.linux.org.na
SysEx (Pty) Ltd.:
http://www.SysEx.com.na
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Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Neil Bothwick]

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Hello Thomas Tuttle,

> > > >   I heard of that using emerge --sync frequently may hert my
> > > > hard-disk.  
> > 
> > Uninformed idiots who tell you total garbage like that ought to be
> > shot. No, they ought to be hung, drawn, quartered and their corpses
> > hung out on a stick to be picked clean by crows.  
> 
> I apologize for butting in, but this is actually possible if you are
> using a Flash memory medium, such as a CompactFlash card or a USB pen
> drive, for the filesystem containing Portage.  It is true, as you said,
> that syncing often will cause no harm to a "normal" hard disk.

The statement specifically referred to a hard disk. Keeping portage on a
flash memory device would be insane.

> > Seriously, I spend half my days on support debunking just this kind
> > of twaddle.  
> 
> ...and scaring off users who passed it (probably just because they
> misunderstood or misinterpreted something) by replying like this.

If it scares them out of unquestioningly accepting and disseminating every
piece of uninformed rubbish they hear, is that such a bad thing?

Alan could have been a little more tactful, I suspect he was actually
biting his tongue and could have been more forceful I think he struck the
right balance. The original statement was ridiculous, not slightly in
error.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

teG I sdrawkcaB eroM ehT oG I sdrawroF eroM ehT

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Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:14:48 +0000, anhnmncb wrote:

>   I just want to know another method to gain the latest x86 stable
> branch's update info,

packages.gentoo.org has an RSS feed.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

JPEG (JPG)
 Joint Photographic Experts Group. The original name of the
 committee that designed the eponymous standard image compression
 algorithm. Abbreviated to JPG by PPL WHO CNT TYP or WSE PCS ARE BKN.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
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Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 16 April 2007, Thomas Tuttle wrote:
> > Seriously, I spend half my days on support debunking just this kind
> > of twaddle.
>
> ...and scaring off users who passed it (probably just because they
> misunderstood or misinterpreted something) by replying like this.
>
> Please, be nice.

Oh, I have no problem with the OP's (anhnmncb) post at all - he's 
obviously been given wrong information by someone else. He even hints 
in his post that he's not sure if he should take it seriously or not. 
So I'm quite happy to give him the correct facts, but I didn't need to 
as several other people had already done it before me.

I do have a problem with whoever gave him that wrong information. The 
only effective way to handle utter BS at the source is to call it as 
BS. It's rarely nice.

alan



-- 
Optimists say the glass is half full,
Pessimists say the glass is half empty,
Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be?

Alan McKinnon
alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za
+27 82, double three seven, one nine three five
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 17 April 2007, anhnmncb wrote:
> Hello,
>   I just want to know another method to gain the latest x86 stable
> branch's update info, nothing more else, what I have heard of I
> mensioned in the first thread really wasn't the point I wanted to
> make, so... can all of you ignore of it...
>
> Any way, thank you all;p

Now that we've all had an interesting discussion on the side, maybe we 
*should* get back to your original question :-)

Did you get an answer/solution for it yet?

-- 
Optimists say the glass is half full,
Pessimists say the glass is half empty,
Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be?

Alan McKinnon
alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za
+27 82, double three seven, one nine three five
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[anhnmncb]

Hello,
  I just want to know another method to gain the latest x86 stable branch's
update info, nothing more else, what I have heard of I mensioned in the first thread really
wasn't the point I wanted to make, so... can all of you ignore of it...

Any way, thank you all;p

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 17 April 2007, anhnmncb wrote:
> Yes, maybe http://packages.gentoo.org/archs/x86/stable/ is what I
> want. Anyway, I still think the way gentoo uses for its package's
> database update is different with other distro, and seems a bit
> slower than others, err, I only used archlinux before.

That's one way of doing it, but I believe it will be slower in the long 
run. You have to load the page, read it, and decide is anything of 
interest is new. If so, you then have to emerge --sync anyway, so why 
not just do it reasonably often anyway? And if you use eix and run 
eix-sync instead of emerge --sync, then you also get a nice display of 
all changes to the tree as soon as the the sync is done.

It is true that portage is a bit slow. If you are brave you can try 
paludis (it's in the portage tree) as a replacement for portage - it's 
claimed to be much faster. But, once again, it's relative: a large 
update will still take many times as long to compile and install as 
what it took portage to calculate what needs updating.

Or are you actually saying that the unpack/build/install cycle takes 
much longer than installing an rpm or a deb? That can't be helped, 
that's how compilation works.

> And..., what I have said above will cause a war too?...

Maybe, maybe not :-)

alan

p.s. please don't top post


>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 11:08:02AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Tuesday 17 April 2007, anhnmncb wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >   I just want to know another method to gain the latest x86
> > > stable branch's update info, nothing more else, what I have heard
> > > of I mensioned in the first thread really wasn't the point I
> > > wanted to make, so... can all of you ignore of it...
> > >
> > > Any way, thank you all;p
> >
> > Now that we've all had an interesting discussion on the side, maybe
> > we *should* get back to your original question :-)
> >
> > Did you get an answer/solution for it yet?
> >
> > --
> > Optimists say the glass is half full,
> > Pessimists say the glass is half empty,
> > Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be?
> >
> > Alan McKinnon
> > alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za
> > +27 82, double three seven, one nine three five
> > --
> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list



-- 
Optimists say the glass is half full,
Pessimists say the glass is half empty,
Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be?

Alan McKinnon
alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za
+27 82, double three seven, one nine three five
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[anhnmncb]

Yes, maybe http://packages.gentoo.org/archs/x86/stable/ is what I want.
Anyway, I still think the way gentoo uses for its package's database
update is different with other distro, and seems a bit slower than
others, err, I only used archlinux before. 
And..., what I have said above will cause a war too?...
On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 11:08:02AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Tuesday 17 April 2007, anhnmncb wrote:
> > Hello,
> >   I just want to know another method to gain the latest x86 stable
> > branch's update info, nothing more else, what I have heard of I
> > mensioned in the first thread really wasn't the point I wanted to
> > make, so... can all of you ignore of it...
> >
> > Any way, thank you all;p
> 
> Now that we've all had an interesting discussion on the side, maybe we 
> *should* get back to your original question :-)
> 
> Did you get an answer/solution for it yet?
> 
> -- 
> Optimists say the glass is half full,
> Pessimists say the glass is half empty,
> Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be?
> 
> Alan McKinnon
> alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za
> +27 82, double three seven, one nine three five
> -- 
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] How can I know which package needs to upgrade without using emerge --sync?

[anhnmncb]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 06:30:58PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> That's one way of doing it, but I believe it will be slower in the long 
> run. You have to load the page, read it, and decide is anything of 
> interest is new. If so, you then have to emerge --sync anyway, so why 
> not just do it reasonably often anyway? And if you use eix and run 
> eix-sync instead of emerge --sync, then you also get a nice display of 
> all changes to the tree as soon as the the sync is done.
> 
> It is true that portage is a bit slow. If you are brave you can try 
> paludis (it's in the portage tree) as a replacement for portage - it's 
> claimed to be much faster. But, once again, it's relative: a large 
> update will still take many times as long to compile and install as 
> what it took portage to calculate what needs updating.
> 
> Or are you actually saying that the unpack/build/install cycle takes 
> much longer than installing an rpm or a deb? That can't be helped, 
> that's how compilation works.
Thanks very much, alan.
The infomation you gave is very helpful, so I know maybe emerge --sync
is one of best and reliable way to update, maybe it has some shortage,
but I think that's a gentoo's way, I'm in gentoo's world :-)
> 
> p.s. please don't top post
I'm a novice, thank you, now I know the mailing list's rule.

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