[gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[Bob Young]

This isn't strictly a Gentoo question, but I'm setting up Gentoo box to be
used as a secondary DNS server, plus some other duties, and I'm hoping there
is a DNS wizard reading who can authoritatively answer my question.

First off the machine has three network cards, one with a (DHCP) private IP
(10.10.32.1) for talking to the local (Windows Domain) LAN. A second NIC
with a (Manually configured) IP address (69.12.134.79) that is publicly
registered (ns.debug1.com) as a secondary DNS for several domains. And the
third NIC has a (Manually configured) private IP address (192.168.0.1) that
will be used to "sniff" all traffic that crosses the DSL modem. 

Obviously on a given system each NIC is usually connected to a different
domain, my question is, whether or not it is /legal/possible/okay to use
different *hostnames* on different NICs? 

For example, in the scenario described above, assume the windows domain is
named "mydomain.lan," can I have 69.12.134.79 (NIC #2) resolve to
ns.debug1.com as that is it's publicly registered name, while IP address
10.10.32.1 (NIC #1) resolves to gentoo.mydomain.lan?

TIA
Bob Young
San Jose, CA.


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Re: [gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[Dan Farrell]

On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 11:17:52 -0800
"Bob Young" <RKY@Sonic.Net> wrote:

> This isn't strictly a Gentoo question, but I'm setting up Gentoo box
> to be used as a secondary DNS server, plus some other duties, and I'm
> hoping there is a DNS wizard reading who can authoritatively answer
> my question.
> 
> First off the machine has three network cards, one with a (DHCP)
> private IP (10.10.32.1) for talking to the local (Windows Domain)
> LAN. A second NIC with a (Manually configured) IP address
> (69.12.134.79) that is publicly registered (ns.debug1.com) as a
> secondary DNS for several domains. And the third NIC has a (Manually
> configured) private IP address (192.168.0.1) that will be used to
> "sniff" all traffic that crosses the DSL modem. 
> 
> Obviously on a given system each NIC is usually connected to a
> different domain, my question is, whether or not it
> is /legal/possible/okay to use different *hostnames* on different
> NICs? 
> 
> For example, in the scenario described above, assume the windows
> domain is named "mydomain.lan," can I have 69.12.134.79 (NIC #2)
> resolve to ns.debug1.com as that is it's publicly registered name,
> while IP address 10.10.32.1 (NIC #1) resolves to gentoo.mydomain.lan?
> 
> TIA
> Bob Young
> San Jose, CA.
> 
> 
If your question is whether you can use multiple names in DNS, I
believe you can.  However, Im not sure they all can be A records -- you
might need to use CNAME records instead.  Also, you may or may not need
PTR records to the ip from the various names.  Different ip addresses
usually deserve/get their own name, and this is appropriate.  IF you
want to have all 3 ip addresses have the same hostname, that should be
ok too, but whether that's a reasonable way of doing things is
questionable.  
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Re: [gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[Michal 'vorner' Vaner]

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Hello,

On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 11:17:52AM -0800, Bob Young wrote:
> Obviously on a given system each NIC is usually connected to a different
> domain, my question is, whether or not it is /legal/possible/okay to use
> different *hostnames* on different NICs? 

AFAIK, you can have multiple names for one IP and multiple IPs for one
name (there are more ways to do that). So, I see no reason why anyone
would ever forgive you to have different name for each of IP addresses
your computer has. The other question is if you really want to do that,
because there might be applications not expecting your computer is
"schizophrenic" in such way and go nutty.

With regards

-- 
When eating an elephant take one bite at a time.
		-- Gen. C. Abrams

Michal 'vorner' Vaner

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Re: [gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[Dan Farrell]

On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 22:04:59 +0100
"Michal 'vorner' Vaner" <vorner@ucw.cz> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 11:17:52AM -0800, Bob Young wrote:
> > Obviously on a given system each NIC is usually connected to a
> > different domain, my question is, whether or not it
> > is /legal/possible/okay to use different *hostnames* on different
> > NICs? 
> 
> AFAIK, you can have multiple names for one IP and multiple IPs for one
> name (there are more ways to do that). So, I see no reason why anyone
> would ever forgive you to have different name for each of IP addresses
> your computer has. The other question is if you really want to do
> that, because there might be applications not expecting your computer
> is "schizophrenic" in such way and go nutty.
> 
> With regards
> 
on the contrary, there are good reasons to have more than one name for
a single computer.  For example, say I have a server 'zeus.mydomain'
that also does mail.  If I name the mailserver 'mail.mydomain' then I
can CNAME that to zeus.mydomain via DNS, or I can just set
mail.mydomain to the ip address of the second interface.  Result - I
can redirect my mail to mail.mydomain and it can go to whatever
computer I desire, whether or not it has different names.  'zeus' is
still listening under that name for other requests.  If i use 'zeus'
for heavy filesharing, I can still get good access over a non-saturated
ethernet device on 'mail'.  

nevertheless, such a thing would really better be accomplished with
ethernet bonding and CNAMEs in dns configuration.  

another, more reasonable situation might be a computer that routed a
few subnets and also provided other services to a subnet or two.  It
might also have an external interface to the ISP, whose hostname on
that network is not up to you.  I don't want to use  "c-24-245-14-14"
as the name for my internet gateway on the inside, do i?  Similarly, on
subnet A it might make perfect sense to call it 'gateway.a.domain' but
perhaps such a computer -- another internet gateway, perhaps? already
uses that name on subnet B.  In that case, imight want to name the same
computer router.b.domain since it routes traffic from b to a.  

make sense?  correct me if i'm wrong ; )
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Re: [gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[Michal 'vorner' Vaner]

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On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 03:21:52PM -0600, Dan Farrell wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 22:04:59 +0100
> "Michal 'vorner' Vaner" <vorner@ucw.cz> wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 11:17:52AM -0800, Bob Young wrote:
> > > Obviously on a given system each NIC is usually connected to a
> > > different domain, my question is, whether or not it
> > > is /legal/possible/okay to use different *hostnames* on different
> > > NICs? 
> > 
> > AFAIK, you can have multiple names for one IP and multiple IPs for one
> > name (there are more ways to do that). So, I see no reason why anyone
> > would ever forgive you to have different name for each of IP addresses
> > your computer has. The other question is if you really want to do
> > that, because there might be applications not expecting your computer
> > is "schizophrenic" in such way and go nutty.
> > 
> > With regards
> > 
> on the contrary, there are good reasons to have more than one name for
> a single computer.  For example, say I have a server 'zeus.mydomain'
> that also does mail.  If I name the mailserver 'mail.mydomain' then I
> can CNAME that to zeus.mydomain via DNS, or I can just set
> mail.mydomain to the ip address of the second interface.  Result - I
> can redirect my mail to mail.mydomain and it can go to whatever
> computer I desire, whether or not it has different names.  'zeus' is
> still listening under that name for other requests.  If i use 'zeus'
> for heavy filesharing, I can still get good access over a non-saturated
> ethernet device on 'mail'.  

Well, this is something else - the computer knows itself as zeus and has
"nicknames". However, if I got what the question was about - to be name1
for one card and name2 for the second - and do not appear as name2 on
the first at all.

IMO machine should have the same "base" name to any domain it shows in -
the one that it shows in bash command prompt. Then you can have
additional names for the services and they can differ.

But the name showed on the bash should probable be reachable (if
possible) from any network it appears on. The situation shown here is
probably odd (the names here are the only ones there, no additional ones
or base ones).

[ X ] C1 ---- C2 [ X ] C1 ---- C2 [ X ].

The [ X ] is a machine, ---- is a network and those C? are names of the
machine on the net. Now, ping C1 on the middle machine. Should it ping
itself on the right interface or look for the left computer? You should
at last have something like:

[ Name1 ] C1 ---- C2 [ Name2 ] C1 ---- C2 [ Name3 ]

(even if Name2 could not be resolved by the DNS on the right network for
example).

And you can "nickname" Name2 as mail or ntp if it suits you.

I hope I made myself clear and I apologize for the previous
misunderstanding.

Have a nice day

-- 
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist ought to have his head examined.
		-- Samuel Goldwyn

Michal 'vorner' Vaner

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RE: [gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[Bob Young]

I appreciate all the replies, and yes Michael you're correct the original
question was in regards to a system having different "base" (host) names for
different NICs. IOW the Windows Domain Controller that eth0 is connected to
records eth0 in it's DNS table as gentoo.windowsdoman.local. In addition in
/etc/make.conf the the following is declared:
eth0_dns_domainname="windowsdomain.local" and
eth0_nis_domainname="windowsdomain" no nis or dns domainname is declared for
eth1 or eth2 as that causes problems. I'll probably also configure BIND to
act as a secondary DNS for the domain controller listing on eth0 and eth1.

Now with regards to eth1, it is my intent to configure eth1 as with the
machines only public IP address (69.12.134.79), and configure BIND to listen
on eth1 as a secondary domain name server, the primary domain name server
would have an "A Record" for 69.12.134.79 and it would be named
ns.somedomainname.com. IOW it would have a different "base" name (ns) than
eth0 (gentoo). My question is whether or not this is valid/"legal"/okay,
i.e. is it likely to cause any problems?

I did see Ruben's comment about named "views" and it looks like that may be
something to investigate.

Any further comments/suggestions welcome.

Thanks,
Bob Young
San Jose, CA



-----Original Message-----
From: Michal 'vorner' Vaner [mailto:vorner@ucw.cz] 
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 2:17 PM
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] A DNS question.

On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 03:21:52PM -0600, Dan Farrell wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 22:04:59 +0100
> "Michal 'vorner' Vaner" <vorner@ucw.cz> wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 11:17:52AM -0800, Bob Young wrote:
> > > Obviously on a given system each NIC is usually connected to a
> > > different domain, my question is, whether or not it
> > > is /legal/possible/okay to use different *hostnames* on different
> > > NICs? 
> > 
> > AFAIK, you can have multiple names for one IP and multiple IPs for one
> > name (there are more ways to do that). So, I see no reason why anyone
> > would ever forgive you to have different name for each of IP addresses
> > your computer has. The other question is if you really want to do
> > that, because there might be applications not expecting your computer
> > is "schizophrenic" in such way and go nutty.
> > 
> > With regards
> > 
> on the contrary, there are good reasons to have more than one name for
> a single computer.  For example, say I have a server 'zeus.mydomain'
> that also does mail.  If I name the mailserver 'mail.mydomain' then I
> can CNAME that to zeus.mydomain via DNS, or I can just set
> mail.mydomain to the ip address of the second interface.  Result - I
> can redirect my mail to mail.mydomain and it can go to whatever
> computer I desire, whether or not it has different names.  'zeus' is
> still listening under that name for other requests.  If i use 'zeus'
> for heavy filesharing, I can still get good access over a non-saturated
> ethernet device on 'mail'.  

Well, this is something else - the computer knows itself as zeus and has
"nicknames". However, if I got what the question was about - to be name1
for one card and name2 for the second - and do not appear as name2 on
the first at all.

IMO machine should have the same "base" name to any domain it shows in -
the one that it shows in bash command prompt. Then you can have
additional names for the services and they can differ.

But the name showed on the bash should probable be reachable (if
possible) from any network it appears on. The situation shown here is
probably odd (the names here are the only ones there, no additional ones
or base ones).

[ X ] C1 ---- C2 [ X ] C1 ---- C2 [ X ].

The [ X ] is a machine, ---- is a network and those C? are names of the
machine on the net. Now, ping C1 on the middle machine. Should it ping
itself on the right interface or look for the left computer? You should
at last have something like:

[ Name1 ] C1 ---- C2 [ Name2 ] C1 ---- C2 [ Name3 ]

(even if Name2 could not be resolved by the DNS on the right network for
example).

And you can "nickname" Name2 as mail or ntp if it suits you.

I hope I made myself clear and I apologize for the previous
misunderstanding.

Have a nice day

-- 
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist ought to have his head examined.
		-- Samuel Goldwyn

Michal 'vorner' Vaner

--
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Re: [gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[Michal 'vorner' Vaner]

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Hello,
On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 04:49:48PM -0800, Bob Young wrote:
> Now with regards to eth1, it is my intent to configure eth1 as with the
> machines only public IP address (69.12.134.79), and configure BIND to listen
> on eth1 as a secondary domain name server, the primary domain name server
> would have an "A Record" for 69.12.134.79 and it would be named
> ns.somedomainname.com. IOW it would have a different "base" name (ns) than
> eth0 (gentoo). My question is whether or not this is valid/"legal"/okay,
> i.e. is it likely to cause any problems?

I do not see why this would be forbidden, however I think it would be a
good idea to let gentoo.somedomainname.com resolv to the same IP as
ns.somedomainname.com. Or better, ns be a pointer to gentoo (if that is
possible, I'm not sure here). It is for clarity and - well, this one is
crazy, but it IMO adds to the computer's "personality" and the computer
deserves a proper name.

With regards.

-- 
Hallowed be the zeroes and ones

Michal "vorner" Vaner

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Re: [gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[Dan Farrell]

On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 23:16:47 +0100
"Michal 'vorner' Vaner" <vorner@ucw.cz> wrote:

> The [ X ] is a machine, ---- is a network and those C? are names of
> the machine on the net. Now, ping C1 on the middle machine. Should it
> ping itself on the right interface or look for the left computer? You
> should at last have something like:
> 
> [ Name1 ] C1 ---- C2 [ Name2 ] C1 ---- C2 [ Name3 ]

/etc/resolv.conf has a search line in which you can set up domains to
automatically append to hostnames that aren't fully qualified.  If the
subnets had different subdomain names, the order/presence/absence in
resolv.conf would determin which C? was reached from Name2
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Re: [gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[Michal 'vorner' Vaner]

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On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 11:52:55AM -0600, Dan Farrell wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 23:16:47 +0100
> "Michal 'vorner' Vaner" <vorner@ucw.cz> wrote:
> 
> > The [ X ] is a machine, ---- is a network and those C? are names of
> > the machine on the net. Now, ping C1 on the middle machine. Should it
> > ping itself on the right interface or look for the left computer? You
> > should at last have something like:
> > 
> > [ Name1 ] C1 ---- C2 [ Name2 ] C1 ---- C2 [ Name3 ]
> 
> /etc/resolv.conf has a search line in which you can set up domains to
> automatically append to hostnames that aren't fully qualified.  If the
> subnets had different subdomain names, the order/presence/absence in
> resolv.conf would determin which C? was reached from Name2

Sure you can do all this - but I still think you just do better if you
name the computer in some reasonable way - give it its own name that is
the same everywhere (even if it has different domains behind it) and add
nicknames for services. After all, it IS the same computer.

If you do not give the computer a more global name, you need to ask
yourself from which network you access it and decide. I did not say you
can not do it other way, just that it probably is a good idea to act in
a way most people take as sane.

With regards

-- 
No, you will not fix me
		Computer

Michal 'vorner' Vaner

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Re: [gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[Paul Colquhoun]

On Sun, 4 Mar 2007, Bob Young wrote:
> This isn't strictly a Gentoo question, but I'm setting up Gentoo box
> to be used as a secondary DNS server, plus some other duties, and I'm
> hoping there is a DNS wizard reading who can authoritatively answer my
> question.  
> 
> First off the machine has three network cards, one with a (DHCP)
> private IP (10.10.32.1) for talking to the local (Windows Domain) LAN.
> A second NIC  with a (Manually configured) IP address (69.12.134.79)
> that is publicly registered (ns.debug1.com) as a secondary DNS for
> several domains. And the third NIC has a (Manually configured) private
> IP address (192.168.0.1) that will be used to "sniff" all traffic that
> crosses the DSL modem.  
> 
> Obviously on a given system each NIC is usually connected to a
> different domain, my question is, whether or not it
> is /legal/possible/okay to use different *hostnames* on different
> NICs?   
> 
> For example, in the scenario described above, assume the windows
> domain is named "mydomain.lan," can I have 69.12.134.79 (NIC #2)
> resolve to ns.debug1.com as that is it's publicly registered name,
> while IP address 10.10.32.1 (NIC #1) resolves to gentoo.mydomain.lan?


Given that 2 of your IP addresses are in RFC 1918 private IP space, it 
is a good thing not to have your public DNS name resolve to those IP 
addresses, as they should not be routable, and may be in use at amny 
other sites (and thus could resolve to a local address at those sites).

Having multiple domain names, each pointing to a separate interface on 
one machine is certainly within the rules for DNS, and is very 
effective in certain situations. Some services (email especially) may 
need to be configured with a list of "these DNS names are also the 
local server" to operate correctly, but this should not be a huge 
burden.


-- 
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC.    http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
     Asking for technical help in newsgroups?  Read this first:
        http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[Reuben Farrelly]

On 4/03/2007 8:43 AM, Paul Colquhoun wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Mar 2007, Bob Young wrote:
>> This isn't strictly a Gentoo question, but I'm setting up Gentoo box
>> to be used as a secondary DNS server, plus some other duties, and I'm
>> hoping there is a DNS wizard reading who can authoritatively answer my
>> question.  
>>
>> First off the machine has three network cards, one with a (DHCP)
>> private IP (10.10.32.1) for talking to the local (Windows Domain) LAN.
>> A second NIC  with a (Manually configured) IP address (69.12.134.79)
>> that is publicly registered (ns.debug1.com) as a secondary DNS for
>> several domains. And the third NIC has a (Manually configured) private
>> IP address (192.168.0.1) that will be used to "sniff" all traffic that
>> crosses the DSL modem.  
>>
>> Obviously on a given system each NIC is usually connected to a
>> different domain, my question is, whether or not it
>> is /legal/possible/okay to use different *hostnames* on different
>> NICs?   
>>
>> For example, in the scenario described above, assume the windows
>> domain is named "mydomain.lan," can I have 69.12.134.79 (NIC #2)
>> resolve to ns.debug1.com as that is it's publicly registered name,
>> while IP address 10.10.32.1 (NIC #1) resolves to gentoo.mydomain.lan?
> 
> 
> Given that 2 of your IP addresses are in RFC 1918 private IP space, it 
> is a good thing not to have your public DNS name resolve to those IP 
> addresses, as they should not be routable, and may be in use at amny 
> other sites (and thus could resolve to a local address at those sites).

That's exactly what named "views" are for.  You can have clients on one IP range 
resolve to entirely different IP addresses than those on the outside:

http://www.isc.org/sw/bind/arm94/Bv9ARM.ch06.html#view_statement_grammar

I have been using bind views in that way for the last 2 years or so so that my 
internal DNS looks different to that seen on the Internet, the feature works 
exactly as documented and it's fairly easy to set up.

That way there is no need to ever have hosts resolve to private RFC 1918 IP 
addresses from the Internet.

Reuben
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Re: [gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[Dan Farrell]

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 10:57:01 +1100
Reuben Farrelly <reuben-gentoo-user@reub.net> wrote:

> That way there is no need to ever have hosts resolve to private RFC
> 1918 IP addresses from the Internet.

in fact, and as already hinted at, there's no way for traffic from the
outside world to be routed to a host with a private ip address, so
names publicly resolving to private addresses certainly aren't going to
work.  You should use NAT instead.
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A DNS question.

[David Relson]

On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 11:17:52 -0800
Bob Young wrote:

> This isn't strictly a Gentoo question, but I'm setting up Gentoo box
> to be used as a secondary DNS server, plus some other duties, and I'm
> hoping there is a DNS wizard reading who can authoritatively answer
> my question.
> 
> First off the machine has three network cards, one with a (DHCP)
> private IP (10.10.32.1) for talking to the local (Windows Domain)
> LAN. A second NIC with a (Manually configured) IP address
> (69.12.134.79) that is publicly registered (ns.debug1.com) as a
> secondary DNS for several domains. And the third NIC has a (Manually
> configured) private IP address (192.168.0.1) that will be used to
> "sniff" all traffic that crosses the DSL modem. 
> 
> Obviously on a given system each NIC is usually connected to a
> different domain, my question is, whether or not it
> is /legal/possible/okay to use different *hostnames* on different
> NICs? 
> 
> For example, in the scenario described above, assume the windows
> domain is named "mydomain.lan," can I have 69.12.134.79 (NIC #2)
> resolve to ns.debug1.com as that is it's publicly registered name,
> while IP address 10.10.32.1 (NIC #1) resolves to gentoo.mydomain.lan?
> 
> TIA
> Bob Young
> San Jose, CA.

H'lo Bob,

I'm not a DNS wizard though (with help from friends) I have DNS running
locally/publicly.  While my environment is not exactly the same as what
you describe, it has lots of similarities (which I realized as I wrote
the description below)....

The DNS configuration has several zone files.  One is for my
192.168.x.y LAN.  A second is for osagesoftware.com.  The third is for
bogofilter.org.

My LAN has multiple machines, with a variety of operating systems and
distros.  There are appropriate entries for each machine in the LAN zone
file.  FWIW, each machine has a static IP address.

osagesoftware.com's zone file has multiple entries, i.e. www, ftp,
mail, etc which all resolve to one machine.

bogofilter.org's zone file also has multiple entries.

The DNS machine has 2 NIC's - one for connecting to the LAN's switch
and the other for connecting to the WAN (internet).  The WAN card
responds to two static IP addresses (one each for osagesoftware.com and
bogofilter.org).

HTH,

David
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[gentoo-user] Re: A DNS question.

[David Talkington]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Bob Young wrote:

> Obviously on a given system each NIC is usually connected to a different
> domain, my question is, whether or not it is /legal/possible/okay to use
> different *hostnames* on different NICs?

DNS is for other computers to find yours.  Yours doesn't give a squirt 
what other computers call it (web server software might, if it's using 
virtual hostnames, but a router or DNS server won't).  Traffic either 
arrives and is dealt with, or it doesn't.  It can be known by a 
bazillion names, if it makes sense to do so.  I do this for my home 
router as well; each segment has its own network and DNS namespace, and 
thus knows the router by a different name. (*)

You do not, however, want to publish DNS information for RFC 1918 
addresses, as was pointed out.  You should use "views" or a "split 
horizon" configuration, so that private names are only seen by private 
machines.

(*) But use multiple A records, not CNAME.  CNAME is almost never 
necessary, and gains you nothing except an extra query from every 
client. I've seen some cluster configurations in which CNAME offered an 
advantage, but it's rare.

- --
David Talkington

PGP key: http://www.prairienet.org/~dtalk/004B8F8B.asc
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