[gentoo-user] Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?

[gentoo-user] Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?

[qfpvajdy]

Hello,



I would like to convince my boss and my collegues to use Gentoo GNU/Linux at the company office for the desktop system (and maybe one day also for servers).

Currently everybody uses its own Linux/Unix system, but soon we could be forced to uses for everybody only one system.

I must probably convince the people to use Gentoo Linux against RedHat Scientific Linux and FreeBSD.



Does somebody has some good key arguments?



The mines are:

- newests packages with newests security updates, encryption support and full integreated KDE desktop to be used in office without problems

- high performance desktop



Best regards,

saf


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Re: [gentoo-user] Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?

[Givernaud Omar]

Hello,

- Gentoo has an important, active, community
- Completly configurable
- power of portage


Best regards

Trax

qfpvajdy wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to convince my boss and my collegues to use Gentoo GNU/Linux at the company office for the desktop system (and maybe one day also for servers).
> Currently everybody uses its own Linux/Unix system, but soon we could be forced to uses for everybody only one system.
> I must probably convince the people to use Gentoo Linux against RedHat Scientific Linux and FreeBSD.
>
> Does somebody has some good key arguments?
>
> The mines are:
> - newests packages with newests security updates, encryption support and full integreated KDE desktop to be used in office without problems
> - high performance desktop
>
> Best regards,
> saf
>
>   

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Re: [gentoo-user] Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?

[Dale]

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Givernaud Omar wrote:
> Hello,
>
> - Gentoo has an important, active, community
> - Completly configurable
> - power of portage
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Trax
>
> qfpvajdy wrote:
>   
>> Hello,
>>
>> I would like to convince my boss and my collegues to use Gentoo GNU/Linux at the company office for the desktop system (and maybe one day also for servers).
>> Currently everybody uses its own Linux/Unix system, but soon we could be forced to uses for everybody only one system.
>> I must probably convince the people to use Gentoo Linux against RedHat Scientific Linux and FreeBSD.
>>
>> Does somebody has some good key arguments?
>>
>> The mines are:
>> - newests packages with newests security updates, encryption support and full integreated KDE desktop to be used in office without problems
>> - high performance desktop
>>
>> Best regards,
>> saf
>>
>>   
>>     
>
>   

Bottom posting here.  :D

Also has some of the best docs there is.  I know because most of the
time when I have a problem, someone points me to them.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)  :-)

-- 
www.myspace.com/dalek1967


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Re: [gentoo-user] Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?

[Hans-Werner Hilse]

Hi,

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:37:27 +0100 (CET) qfpvajdy
<qfpvajdy@trashmail.net> wrote:

> I would like to convince my boss and my collegues to use Gentoo
> GNU/Linux at the company office for the desktop system (and maybe one
> day also for servers). Currently everybody uses its own Linux/Unix
> system, but soon we could be forced to uses for everybody only one
> system.
> 
> Does somebody has some good key arguments?
> 
> The mines are:
> - newests packages with newests security updates, encryption support
> and full integreated KDE desktop to be used in office without problems
> - high performance desktop

Those are not important in any case where the budget dictates matters
(i.e. everywhere). Those aren't even good things to bring into play
against RH and FBSD, because those do that fine, too.

What really matters boils down to:
- easy, cost-effective maintainance (I doubt that Gentoo will be the
  winner after all)
- more productive for the task (I would say that Gentoo would be that
  e.g. for software development)
- needed customization can be done the easiest
- admin skills are available


-hwh
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Re: [gentoo-user] Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?

[Kent Fredric]

>  Bottom posting here.  :D
>
>  Also has some of the best docs there is.  I know because most of the time
> when I have a problem, someone points me to them.  ;-)
>
>  Dale

I concur, gentoo IMO provides more to the OSS with the ability to
compile the whole system wit h debug options, yet with a splitdebug
feature to prevent the usefulness of full stack traces all the way to
glibc degrading run time performance :)

Also, documentation in gentoo and amongst her users are unparalleled.
Often when you just google for a generic problem somebody is having
with an app or with their distro in linux in general, more often than
not the solution or  howto will be found in gentoo-wiki.com or the
gentoo forums.

Debian users are too elitist, most of them will just tell you to RTFM.
Gentoo's IRC help room is devoid of such sectarian elitisim. :)

Power to the people, freedom for the user.

-
Kent
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RE: [gentoo-user] Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?

[Nelson, David (ED, PAR&D)]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hans-Werner Hilse [mailto:hilse@web.de]
> Sent: 19 January 2007 10:06
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?
> 
> 
> Hi,

- snip -

> - needed customization can be done the easiest
> - admin skills are available
> 
> 
> -hwh

This is where I think Gentoo does come out on top. 

Are all your machines similar? If so, do a custom install on one, set it
up how you like it, it's compiled from source for that specific machine
and purpose.

Then clone it across the other machines.

Gentoo's way of things just makes perfect sense - your OS is pretty much
unique to you and it's easy to fine tune it to how you want it. It's
updated regularly and if you lack a particular package you are free to
make an ebuild for it yourself, maintain overlays for obscure software
your company might use etc etc.

You can have an NFS share for syncing/updates which means you dont have
to download updates for each computer, only once (saves bandwidth =
saves money) and all PCs are hence running the same versions of
software.

That, and of course the wiki. Gentoo might look daunting but people are
right - this (meta-)distro has generated some fantastic documentation,
and the install guide is (to me, granted I'm not an newb to gentoo)
crystal clear.

David "I find it hard to use any other distro now" Nelson

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Re: [gentoo-user] Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Friday 19 January 2007 12:05, Hans-Werner Hilse wrote:
> Those are not important in any case where the budget dictates matters
> (i.e. everywhere). Those aren't even good things to bring into play
> against RH and FBSD, because those do that fine, too.

IMHO the only really compelling reason for ever using Gentoo is that at 
almost all times you get exactly what you want, as opposed to what Red 
Hat/Debian/et al  wants you to have.

Red Hat works well if you fall into that category of customer/company 
that is OK with using a stock standard middle-of-the road distro - this 
is easily 95%+ of the market. But, if you need something different, you 
will find that modifying RHEL is a major PITA compared to doing the 
same thing on Gentoo. For example, I work for a database company and we 
are a Red Hat partner. I simply will not support our products if they 
run on anything other than RHEL or SLES, because I don't want the 
hassle. But all my personal machines and my company notebook run 
Gentoo, because part of my job is keeping up with new stuff and only 
Gentoo gets out of the way and lets me do this without restricting me.

So I suppose saf's real question ought to be something like "what do we 
really need that is hard to provide using other (mostly) binary 
distros?"

alan

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Re: [gentoo-user] Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?

[Kent Fredric]

> I concur, gentoo IMO provides more to the OSS with the ability to
> compile the whole system wit h debug options, yet with a splitdebug
> feature to prevent the usefulness of full stack traces all the way to
> glibc degrading run time performance :)
>
> Also, documentation in gentoo and amongst her users are unparalleled.
> Often when you just google for a generic problem somebody is having
> with an app or with their distro in linux in general, more often than
> not the solution or  howto will be found in gentoo-wiki.com or the
> gentoo forums.
>
> Debian users are too elitist, most of them will just tell you to RTFM.
> Gentoo's IRC help room is devoid of such sectarian elitisim. :)
>
> Power to the people, freedom for the user.
>
> -
> Kent
>

Also, on top of that, USE flags. debian + app which does graphical
stuff but not necessarily uses an actual X still requires you to pull
in all the X libraries. no way around it.

-- 
Kent
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Re: [gentoo-user] Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?

[Andrey Gerasimenko]

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:37:27 +0300, qfpvajdy <qfpvajdy@trashmail.net>  
wrote:

> ....
> I would like to convince my boss and my collegues to use Gentoo  
> GNU/Linux at the company office for the desktop system (and maybe one  
> day also for servers).
> Currently everybody uses its own Linux/Unix system, but soon we could be  
> forced to uses for everybody only one system.

Any anticipated forced action indicates that there is a problem. Identify  
the problem and show how Gentoo helps to solve it. Since you do not write  
about the problem, you should not expect much from the answers, all being  
based on some guess and/or assumption.

For example, since Gentoo is a meta distribution, it may allow everybody  
to continue to use Linux their own way and still keep the management happy  
thinking that all are using the same thing.

> I must probably convince the people to use Gentoo Linux against RedHat  
> Scientific Linux and FreeBSD.
>

If the choice is between Red Hat Scientific and FreeBSD, you (as an  
organization) clearly do not know what you need. Thus, Gentoo may be the  
least risky option since if you ever find out that you need a BSD or even  
a Solaris kernel, then you can switch to it easier from Gentoo than from  
Red Hat.

> Does somebody has some good key arguments?
>
> The mines are:
> - newests packages with newests security updates, encryption support and  
> full integreated KDE desktop to be used in office without problems
> - high performance desktop
> ....

These arguments proof that Gentoo may be used, not that is should be used.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?

[Shawn Singh]

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>>> Currently everybody uses its own Linux/Unix system, but soon we could be
forced to uses for everybody only one system.

Sounds like a cool organization. :)

As far as considering FreeBSD, it's a great OS; however, I'd describe it as
more as an alternative to using Linux. This is certainly evident in their
philosophy. I'd narrow it to Linux / FreeBSD, and if you went Linux, I'd go
with Gentoo.

Please see:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/linux-comparison/

As far as Redhat or Gentoo are concerned, they are both great distros;
however, I can't think of an advantage that Redhat has over Gentoo. In a
company where the users are Linux savvy, I'd go with Gentoo for flexibility
and configurability.

I'm not sure how RH is handling dependency hell these days, but I can say
that the team that deals with software that is available to Portage, does an
unbelievable job of providing Portage with what it will need to make
software maintenance trivial.

At this point, I'm not sure if RH has a LiveCd. I see that FC released on a
little over 1 mo ago, but I've not tried it. The Gentoo LiveCd is a stable
solution that you can boot up, try out, and if you like, install. The
packages that are available for Gentoo, while they may not necessarily be
the, "bleeding edge, while the animal is still twitching on the ground
version" will be a stable version. I'd get into the strengths / merits of
Portage, but I think using it is worthwhile to see Portage at work, but I
will say that Portage is a complete package management solution, and for the
developer, one can appreciate really the versioning that one can do using
Portage.

Later,

Shawn
On 1/19/07, Andrey Gerasimenko <gak@kaluga.ru> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:37:27 +0300, qfpvajdy <qfpvajdy@trashmail.net>
> wrote:
>
> > ....
> > I would like to convince my boss and my collegues to use Gentoo
> > GNU/Linux at the company office for the desktop system (and maybe one
> > day also for servers).
> > Currently everybody uses its own Linux/Unix system, but soon we could be
> > forced to uses for everybody only one system.
>
> Any anticipated forced action indicates that there is a problem. Identify
> the problem and show how Gentoo helps to solve it. Since you do not write
> about the problem, you should not expect much from the answers, all being
> based on some guess and/or assumption.
>
> For example, since Gentoo is a meta distribution, it may allow everybody
> to continue to use Linux their own way and still keep the management happy
> thinking that all are using the same thing.
>
> > I must probably convince the people to use Gentoo Linux against RedHat
> > Scientific Linux and FreeBSD.
> >
>
> If the choice is between Red Hat Scientific and FreeBSD, you (as an
> organization) clearly do not know what you need. Thus, Gentoo may be the
> least risky option since if you ever find out that you need a BSD or even
> a Solaris kernel, then you can switch to it easier from Gentoo than from
> Red Hat.
>
> > Does somebody has some good key arguments?
> >
> > The mines are:
> > - newests packages with newests security updates, encryption support and
> > full integreated KDE desktop to be used in office without problems
> > - high performance desktop
> > ....
>
> These arguments proof that Gentoo may be used, not that is should be used.
>
> --
> Andrei Gerasimenko
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


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standing motionless but I'm actively waiting for our problems to go away. I
don't know why this works but it does."
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[gentoo-user] Re: Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?

[Regis Decamps]

qfpvajdy wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to convince my boss and my collegues to use Gentoo GNU/Linux at the company office for the desktop system (and maybe one day also for servers).
> 
> Currently everybody uses its own Linux/Unix system, but soon we could be forced to uses for everybody only one system.
> 
> I must probably convince the people to use Gentoo Linux against RedHat Scientific Linux and FreeBSD.
> 
> 
> 
> Does somebody has some good key arguments?
> 
> 

No: I use Gentoo at home but could not imagine a place at my company.

Gentoo requires a real internet connection when we are behind a 
restricted proxy

Gentoo requires a lot of administration. For instance: etc-update 
(dispatch-conf) needs to be run after a package upgrade

Gentoo takes time with compilation and requires fine tuning for things 
to work when we just a standard works-for-everybody application.

Gentoo is not appropriate for my company. Mandriva or Suse would be 
better choices.


> 
> The mines are:
> 
> - newests packages with newests security updates, encryption support and full integreated KDE desktop to be used in office without problems
> 

like any "desktop oriented" distribution. Red Hat, Suse and Mandriva, 
Ubuntu offer the same.

> - high performance desktop

Why do you compare only these three OS? Why is freebsd in this list?

higher than the other Desktop distros?

In my opinion, Gentoo is not appropriate for most companies. Now it 
depends... What are your criteria?

- support? Gentoo has a great community, but so do ubuntu or Mandriva. 
But Mandriva, Suse and red Hat offer paid support, ie someone to blame 
whan things don't work
- configuration? Do you need fine configuration (gentoo wins)?
- easyness or "put hands in the dirt"?
- cost of maintenance (I really doubt Gentoo wins)

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Good arguments to use Gentoo Linux?

[Daniel da Veiga]

On 1/22/07, Regis Decamps <decamps@users.sf.net> wrote:
> qfpvajdy wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> >
> >
> > I would like to convince my boss and my collegues to use Gentoo GNU/Linux at the company office for the desktop system (and maybe one day also for servers).
> >
> > Currently everybody uses its own Linux/Unix system, but soon we could be forced to uses for everybody only one system.
> >
> > I must probably convince the people to use Gentoo Linux against RedHat Scientific Linux and FreeBSD.
> >
> >
> >
> > Does somebody has some good key arguments?
> >
> >
>
> No: I use Gentoo at home but could not imagine a place at my company.
>
> Gentoo requires a real internet connection when we are behind a
> restricted proxy

We are behind a restricted proxy in a secure environment at a govern
building, and yet I have a couple of servers and desktops running
Gentoo flawlessly for about an year.

>
> Gentoo requires a lot of administration. For instance: etc-update
> (dispatch-conf) needs to be run after a package upgrade

Only if you upgrade frequently, for ordinary use, you'll install and
upgrade specific packages, most do not require any intervention, while
when you decide to do a major upgrade you won't need a release CD with
lots of stuff you don't need, while burning your configs in the
upgrade process, besides you won't need to know the twelve packages
that will need upgrade to let you use the new/upgraded application.

>
> Gentoo takes time with compilation and requires fine tuning for things
> to work when we just a standard works-for-everybody application.

Time with compilation in a distributed environment with binary
packages is almost zero, if you want to, the fact is that Gentoo
serves ANY application, you just have to configure it ONCE and it's
ready for almost any environment. A bit of inicial tunning saves time
in a dozen later installs/upgrades.

>
> Gentoo is not appropriate for my company. Mandriva or Suse would be
> better choices.
>

For the above reasons, you should reconsider...

>
> >
> > The mines are:
> >
> > - newests packages with newests security updates, encryption support and full integreated KDE desktop to be used in office without problems
> >
>
> like any "desktop oriented" distribution. Red Hat, Suse and Mandriva,
> Ubuntu offer the same.

In fact, they don't, they offer releases, else you will have to use
their package management system to upgrade, and portage is the only
one who has never crashed on me beyond repair.

>
> > - high performance desktop
>
> Why do you compare only these three OS? Why is freebsd in this list?
>
> higher than the other Desktop distros?

I totally agree with that...

>
> In my opinion, Gentoo is not appropriate for most companies. Now it
> depends... What are your criteria?
>
> - support? Gentoo has a great community, but so do ubuntu or Mandriva.
> But Mandriva, Suse and red Hat offer paid support, ie someone to blame
> whan things don't work

You can buy support for Gentoo from any company that offers it, the
same as you can with almost any other distro...

> - configuration? Do you need fine configuration (gentoo wins)?

Easy configuration is better than fine, etc protection, rc-update,
portage itself, they're all systems that you can use to
distribute/automate configuration...

> - easyness or "put hands in the dirt"?

Gentoo is easy, you just have to get used to it, just like every other
distro out there...

> - cost of maintenance (I really doubt Gentoo wins)

It depends on the staff you have and/or the support you bought. Gentoo
has proven to be cheap and reliable.

-- 
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
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