[gentoo-user] browser advice

[gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing
doesn't let me choose the language, and I'm tired of getting useless
Brazilian links. Yes, I know about the settings, I already deleted the
google.pt cookie, but it's no use. I don't know, nor care, whose fault
it is (Google's, firefox's or mine, for not having telepathic gifts), I
just won't let anyone choose for me.

So, the point is: what browser now? Firefox is the one more often
mentioned in this list. How about Konqueror or Opera? The latter is
hardly ever mentioned. Is there some special reason for this? For
example, is it activelly maintained? Is it missing some particular
feature? It looks nice enough, but is there some catch? And Konqueror? I
already use KDE, so that's not an issue.

I would appreciate your opinions.

-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Richard Fish]

On 11/29/06, Jorge Almeida <jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote:
> So, the point is: what browser now?

IMO konqueror rocks.  The split-window browsing feature is something
that every other browser should adopt _now_!  But there are still
sites that don't fully support it, so I keep firefox/bon echo around
for those.  A nice thing in konqueror is that you can right-click on
any link and open it in firefox, opera, or whatever.

-Richard
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Randy Barlow]

Richard Fish wrote:
> IMO konqueror rocks.  The split-window browsing feature is something
> that every other browser should adopt _now_!  But there are still
> sites that don't fully support it, so I keep firefox/bon echo around
> for those.  A nice thing in konqueror is that you can right-click on
> any link and open it in firefox, opera, or whatever.
Hey Richard - is it easy to get Flash to work with Konqueror?  From the 
instructions on the Adobe site, I was under the impression that it was 
only for Mozilla based browsers.  That said, I did find people talking 
about how to get it working in Konqueror, but that it can cause 
problems.  Also, I recently became aware of Gnash (open source flash 
player).  Haven't tried it though...

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Wednesday 29 November 2006 22:50, Randy Barlow wrote:
> Richard Fish wrote:
> > IMO konqueror rocks.  The split-window browsing feature is something
> > that every other browser should adopt _now_!  But there are still
> > sites that don't fully support it, so I keep firefox/bon echo around
> > for those.  A nice thing in konqueror is that you can right-click on
> > any link and open it in firefox, opera, or whatever.
>
> Hey Richard - is it easy to get Flash to work with Konqueror?  From the
> instructions on the Adobe site, I was under the impression that it was
> only for Mozilla based browsers.  

konqueror can use every netscape-style plugin (like flash). 

So it can use adobe's flash. It can also play flash movies with 
kmplayer+mplayer AND it can make use of nspluginwrapper.
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Mick]

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On Wednesday 29 November 2006 21:08, Richard Fish wrote:
> On 11/29/06, Jorge Almeida <jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote:
> > So, the point is: what browser now?
>
> IMO konqueror rocks.  The split-window browsing feature is something
> that every other browser should adopt _now_!  But there are still
> sites that don't fully support it, so I keep firefox/bon echo around
> for those.  A nice thing in konqueror is that you can right-click on
> any link and open it in firefox, opera, or whatever.

How do you use the split window feature for browsing (as opposed to file 
manager actions)?

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Richard Fish]

On 11/29/06, Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:
> How do you use the split window feature for browsing (as opposed to file
> manager actions)?

I typically use it for something like google or bugzilla search
results.  I drag links from the browser pane that has the search
results to the other pane to display each item and browse from there.
Much easier than hitting the "back" button several times and much
tidier than opening new windows or tabs.

-Richard
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Mick]

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On Thursday 30 November 2006 01:45, Richard Fish wrote:
> On 11/29/06, Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:
> > How do you use the split window feature for browsing (as opposed to file
> > manager actions)?
>
> I typically use it for something like google or bugzilla search
> results.  I drag links from the browser pane that has the search
> results to the other pane to display each item and browse from there.
> Much easier than hitting the "back" button several times and much
> tidier than opening new windows or tabs.

Right, I see now.  It's like the tiled view in Opera.  I'll use it more often 
now that I know what it is for.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Gian Domeni Calgeer]

Am Donnerstag, 30. November 2006 02:45 schrieb Richard Fish:
> On 11/29/06, Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:
> > How do you use the split window feature for browsing (as opposed to file
> > manager actions)?
>
> I typically use it for something like google or bugzilla search
> results.  I drag links from the browser pane that has the search
> results to the other pane to display each item and browse from there.
> Much easier than hitting the "back" button several times and much
> tidier than opening new windows or tabs.
>
> -Richard

Hi

If you select the pane in which you have the search results and then check 
both "Lock to Current Location" and "Link View", you needn't even drag the 
links, but can just click on them and they're opened in the other pane. IMO 
this is a great feature of Konqueror. 

Gian
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Richard Fish wrote:

>
> IMO konqueror rocks.  The split-window browsing feature is something
> that every other browser should adopt _now_!  But there are still
> sites that don't fully support it, so I keep firefox/bon echo around
> for those.  A nice thing in konqueror is that you can right-click on
> any link and open it in firefox, opera, or whatever.
>
I already had Konqueror installed, although I'm using split ebuilds, not
a full KDE install. It's always good to have more than one browser.
It all depends on which browser can be better customized to my taste...

Jorge
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Wednesday 29 November 2006 22:00, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing
> doesn't let me choose the language, and I'm tired of getting useless
> Brazilian links. Yes, I know about the settings, I already deleted the
> google.pt cookie, but it's no use.

I'm not sure I get this right. Did you choose english in the Languages section 
in the Advanced Options?

http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/options#advanced

-- 
Bo Andresen

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

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On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote:

> On Wednesday 29 November 2006 22:00, Jorge Almeida wrote:
>> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing
>> doesn't let me choose the language, and I'm tired of getting useless
>> Brazilian links. Yes, I know about the settings, I already deleted the
>> google.pt cookie, but it's no use.
>
> I'm not sure I get this right. Did you choose english in the Languages section
> in the Advanced Options?
>
> http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/options#advanced
>
>
Yes. There are two languages there: English-US and English (en). No
Portuguese. I tried everything. With Google preferences, too.
Now I'm ready to move on. Enough is enough. (I find this behaviour
offensive. I might be a foreigner living in Portugal without knowing a
word of Portuguese. This didn't happen with Mozilla. I started using
Firefox when Mozilla was deprecated---I don't know whether I got this
right.)

Thanks.

-- 
Jorge Almeida

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Dale]

Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday 29 November 2006 22:00, Jorge Almeida wrote:
>>> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing
>>> doesn't let me choose the language, and I'm tired of getting useless
>>> Brazilian links. Yes, I know about the settings, I already deleted the
>>> google.pt cookie, but it's no use.
>>
>> I'm not sure I get this right. Did you choose english in the
>> Languages section
>> in the Advanced Options?
>>
>> http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/options#advanced
>>
>>
> Yes. There are two languages there: English-US and English (en). No
> Portuguese. I tried everything. With Google preferences, too.
> Now I'm ready to move on. Enough is enough. (I find this behaviour
> offensive. I might be a foreigner living in Portugal without knowing a
> word of Portuguese. This didn't happen with Mozilla. I started using
> Firefox when Mozilla was deprecated---I don't know whether I got this
> right.)
>
> Thanks.
>

Try Seamonkey then.  I have not had such a problem with it. 

Dale

:-)  :-)  :-)
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Dale wrote:

>
> Try Seamonkey then.  I have not had such a problem with it.
>
Right now, I more inclined to Konqueror and/or Opera, but who knows.

But, speaking of Seamonkey: although I'm not thinking of using Epiphany
(due to the Gnome dependencies), I issued emerge -pv epiphany, and this
is what I got. Anyone knows why epiphany has seamonkey as dependency?

Calculating dependencies... done!
[blocks B     ] www-client/mozilla (is blocking www-client/seamonkey-1.0.6)
[ebuild  N    ] dev-python/pyrex-0.9.4.1  177 kB
[ebuild  N    ] sys-apps/dbus-0.62-r1  USE="X gtk python -debug -doc -mono -qt3 -qt4 (-selinux)" 1,696 kB
[ebuild  NS   ] gnome-base/orbit-2.14.0  USE="ssl -debug -doc -static" 687 kB
[ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/libbonobo-2.14.0  USE="-debug -doc" 1,354 kB
[ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/gconf-2.14.0  USE="-debug -doc" 1,851 kB
[ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/gnome-mime-data-2.4.2  USE="-debug" 829 kB
[ebuild  N    ] net-misc/neon-0.26.1-r1  USE="nls ssl zlib -expat -socks5" 763 kB
[ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/gnome-vfs-2.14.2-r1  USE="ssl -avahi -debug -doc -gnutls -hal -ipv6 -samba" 1,773 kB
[ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/libgnome-2.14.1  USE="-debug -doc -esd -static" 971 kB
[ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/gnome-keyring-0.4.9  USE="-debug" 386 kB
[ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/libbonoboui-2.14.0  USE="X -debug -doc" 872 kB
[ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/libgnomeui-2.14.1  USE="jpeg -debug -doc" 1,847 kB
[ebuild  N    ] dev-python/pyorbit-2.14.0  USE="-debug" 269 kB
[ebuild  N    ] dev-python/pyopengl-2.0.0.44  0 kB
[ebuild  N    ] dev-python/pycairo-1.2.2  USE="-numeric" 471 kB
[ebuild  N    ] dev-python/numeric-23.7  0 kB
[ebuild  N    ] dev-python/pygtk-2.8.6  USE="opengl -doc" 739 kB
[ebuild  N    ] dev-python/gnome-python-2.12.4  USE="-debug -doc -gtkhtml" 368 kB
[ebuild  N    ] app-text/gnome-doc-utils-0.6.1  USE="-debug" 375 kB
[ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/gnome-desktop-2.14.2  USE="-debug -doc" 1,159 kB
[ebuild  N    ] www-client/seamonkey-1.0.6  USE="crypt java -debug -gnome -ipv6 -ldap -mozcalendar -mozdevelop -moznocompose -moznoirc -moznomail -moznopango -moznoroaming -postgres -xinerama -xprint" 35,076 kB
[ebuild  N    ] app-text/iso-codes-0.49  3,612 kB
[ebuild  N    ] www-client/epiphany-2.14.2.1-r1  USE="python -debug -doc -firefox" 3,515 kB

-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Dale]

Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Dale wrote:
>
>>
>> Try Seamonkey then.  I have not had such a problem with it.
>>
> Right now, I more inclined to Konqueror and/or Opera, but who knows.
>
> But, speaking of Seamonkey: although I'm not thinking of using Epiphany
> (due to the Gnome dependencies), I issued emerge -pv epiphany, and this
> is what I got. Anyone knows why epiphany has seamonkey as dependency?
>
> Calculating dependencies... done!
> [blocks B     ] www-client/mozilla (is blocking
> www-client/seamonkey-1.0.6)
> [ebuild  N    ] dev-python/pyrex-0.9.4.1  177 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] sys-apps/dbus-0.62-r1  USE="X gtk python -debug -doc
> -mono -qt3 -qt4 (-selinux)" 1,696 kB
> [ebuild  NS   ] gnome-base/orbit-2.14.0  USE="ssl -debug -doc -static"
> 687 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/libbonobo-2.14.0  USE="-debug -doc" 1,354 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/gconf-2.14.0  USE="-debug -doc" 1,851 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/gnome-mime-data-2.4.2  USE="-debug" 829 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] net-misc/neon-0.26.1-r1  USE="nls ssl zlib -expat
> -socks5" 763 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/gnome-vfs-2.14.2-r1  USE="ssl -avahi -debug
> -doc -gnutls -hal -ipv6 -samba" 1,773 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/libgnome-2.14.1  USE="-debug -doc -esd
> -static" 971 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/gnome-keyring-0.4.9  USE="-debug" 386 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/libbonoboui-2.14.0  USE="X -debug -doc" 872 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/libgnomeui-2.14.1  USE="jpeg -debug -doc"
> 1,847 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] dev-python/pyorbit-2.14.0  USE="-debug" 269 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] dev-python/pyopengl-2.0.0.44  0 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] dev-python/pycairo-1.2.2  USE="-numeric" 471 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] dev-python/numeric-23.7  0 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] dev-python/pygtk-2.8.6  USE="opengl -doc" 739 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] dev-python/gnome-python-2.12.4  USE="-debug -doc
> -gtkhtml" 368 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] app-text/gnome-doc-utils-0.6.1  USE="-debug" 375 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] gnome-base/gnome-desktop-2.14.2  USE="-debug -doc"
> 1,159 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] www-client/seamonkey-1.0.6  USE="crypt java -debug
> -gnome -ipv6 -ldap -mozcalendar -mozdevelop -moznocompose -moznoirc
> -moznomail -moznopango -moznoroaming -postgres -xinerama -xprint"
> 35,076 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] app-text/iso-codes-0.49  3,612 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] www-client/epiphany-2.14.2.1-r1  USE="python -debug
> -doc -firefox" 3,515 kB
>

Use the -t option to see what it is that is pulling it in.  I have never
used epiphany before.  What's it look like? 

I think your problem is more about what server you are hooking up to
when you go to google than what browser you are using.  Google has
servers all over the world and it may just be that you are getting
different ones for some reason.  Have you tried http://www.google.com/en
by any chance?  Maybe try this:  66.102.7.99, 66.102.7.104, or
66.102.7.147 .  Those are the IPs I get for google when I go to it. 
Maybe that will help.

This is strange but image what would happen if I wanted a google in
Russian or something.  That may be hard for me to get here. 

Hope some part of this will help.

Dale

:-)  :-)  :-)
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Dale wrote:

>
> Use the -t option to see what it is that is pulling it in.  I have never
Here it goes. Doesn't help. (I was just curious, anyway.)
 	[blocks B     ] www-client/mozilla (is blocking www-client/seamonkey-1.0.6)
 	[ebuild  N    ] www-client/epiphany-2.14.2.1-r1  USE="python -debug -doc -firefox" 3,515 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]  app-text/iso-codes-0.49  3,612 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]  www-client/seamonkey-1.0.6  USE="crypt java -debug -gnome -ipv6 -ldap -mozcalendar -mozdevelop -moznocompose -moznoirc -moznomail -moznopango -moznoroaming -postgres -xinerama -xprint" 35,076 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]  gnome-base/gnome-desktop-2.14.2  USE="-debug -doc" 1,159 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]   app-text/gnome-doc-utils-0.6.1  USE="-debug" 375 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]  dev-python/gnome-python-2.12.4  USE="-debug -doc -gtkhtml" 368 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]   dev-python/pygtk-2.8.6  USE="opengl -doc" 739 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]    dev-python/numeric-23.7  0 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]    dev-python/pycairo-1.2.2  USE="-numeric" 471 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]    dev-python/pyopengl-2.0.0.44  0 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]   dev-python/pyorbit-2.14.0  USE="-debug" 269 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]   gnome-base/libgnomeui-2.14.1  USE="jpeg -debug -doc" 1,847 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]    gnome-base/libbonoboui-2.14.0  USE="X -debug -doc" 872 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]    gnome-base/gnome-keyring-0.4.9  USE="-debug" 386 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]    gnome-base/libgnome-2.14.1  USE="-debug -doc -esd -static" 971 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]     gnome-base/gnome-vfs-2.14.2-r1  USE="ssl -avahi -debug -doc -gnutls -hal -ipv6 -samba" 1,773 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]      net-misc/neon-0.26.1-r1  USE="nls ssl zlib -expat -socks5" 763 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]      gnome-base/gnome-mime-data-2.4.2  USE="-debug" 829 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]      gnome-base/gconf-2.14.0  USE="-debug -doc" 1,851 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]     gnome-base/libbonobo-2.14.0  USE="-debug -doc" 1,354 kB
 	[ebuild  NS   ]      gnome-base/orbit-2.14.0  USE="ssl -debug -doc -static" 687 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]  sys-apps/dbus-0.62-r1  USE="X gtk python -debug -doc -mono -qt3 -qt4 (-selinux)" 1,696 kB
 	[ebuild  N    ]   dev-python/pyrex-0.9.4.1  177 kB

> used epiphany before.  What's it look like?
Have no idea, I didn't tried either. Being something from Gnome, I
suspect it's not very customizable, but I may be completely wrong.
>
> I think your problem is more about what server you are hooking up to
> when you go to google than what browser you are using.  Google has
But it happens _only_ in FF...
> servers all over the world and it may just be that you are getting
> different ones for some reason.  Have you tried http://www.google.com/en
I tried it. It gets redirected. Google knows best!
> by any chance?  Maybe try this:  66.102.7.99, 66.102.7.104, or
> 66.102.7.147 .  Those are the IPs I get for google when I go to it.
> Maybe that will help.
>
Cheers.
-- 
Jorge
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Dale]

Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Dale wrote:
> I tried it. It gets redirected. Google knows best!
>> by any chance?  Maybe try this:  66.102.7.99, 66.102.7.104, or
>> 66.102.7.147 .  Those are the IPs I get for google when I go to it.
>> Maybe that will help.
>>
> Cheers.

Did you try the IP numbers?  That should take you to the same server I
am using here in the US.  That should be english which is what you want
if I recall correctly.

Dale

:-)  :-)  :-)
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gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Dale wrote:

> Did you try the IP numbers?  That should take you to the same server I
> am using here in the US.  That should be english which is what you want
> if I recall correctly.
>
Yes, with the IP it works. But all this shouldn't be necessary, and it
is necessary with FF only.
-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

On Thursday 30 November 2006 10:22, Jorge Almeida wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Dale wrote:
> > used epiphany before.  What's it look like?
>
> Have no idea, I didn't tried either. Being something from Gnome, I
> suspect it's not very customizable, but I may be completely wrong.

You can find more info here:
http://www.gnome.org/projects/epiphany/
seems that it uses the gecko rendering engine, the same used by firefox 
and seamonkey (and can use the plugins too). Like many Gnome programs, 
it aims to be simple, easy to use and probably not very customizable (no 
flames, just my impression).

> > I think your problem is more about what server you are hooking up to
> > when you go to google than what browser you are using.  Google has
>
> But it happens _only_ in FF...

For me, it happens with konqueror and (sic) internet explorer also.

This page explains why:
http://www.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=873&topic=8995

As another poster said, the redirection can be avoided using the 
http://www.google.com/ncr address. The above page says that 
http://www.google.com/webhp should also work (I did not try it myself 
though).
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:

> On Thursday 30 November 2006 10:22, Jorge Almeida wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Dale wrote:
>>> used epiphany before.  What's it look like?
>>
>> Have no idea, I didn't tried either. Being something from Gnome, I
>> suspect it's not very customizable, but I may be completely wrong.
>
> You can find more info here:
> http://www.gnome.org/projects/epiphany/
> seems that it uses the gecko rendering engine, the same used by firefox
> and seamonkey (and can use the plugins too). Like many Gnome programs,
> it aims to be simple, easy to use and probably not very customizable (no
> flames, just my impression).
>
OK, so that's why it needs another browser.
>>> I think your problem is more about what server you are hooking up to
>>> when you go to google than what browser you are using.  Google has
>>
>> But it happens _only_ in FF...
>
> For me, it happens with konqueror and (sic) internet explorer also.
>
> This page explains why:
> http://www.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=873&topic=8995
No. My problem is not redirection. With Konqueror, it gets redirected
too, but my preferences are respected, i.e., although I'm connected to
google.pt it searches in the languages I selected in Google's
preferences. Not so with FF.
>
> As another poster said, the redirection can be avoided using the
> http://www.google.com/ncr address. The above page says that
> http://www.google.com/webhp should also work (I did not try it myself
> though).
>
All these links are usefull and will be kept, but they shouldn't be
necessary.

-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

On Thursday 30 November 2006 11:01, Jorge Almeida wrote:

> No. My problem is not redirection. With Konqueror, it gets redirected
> too, but my preferences are respected, i.e., although I'm connected to
> google.pt it searches in the languages I selected in Google's
> preferences. Not so with FF.

Ah ok, sorry. I misunderstood your problem.
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[b.n.]

Etaoin Shrdlu ha scritto:
> On Thursday 30 November 2006 11:01, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> 
>> No. My problem is not redirection. With Konqueror, it gets redirected
>> too, but my preferences are respected, i.e., although I'm connected to
>> google.pt it searches in the languages I selected in Google's
>> preferences. Not so with FF.
> 
> Ah ok, sorry. I misunderstood your problem.

Can someone explain *why* it is so? It's really odd. I suspect the OP 
(and us) are missing something very easy in the preferences/cookie 
management, but what?

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Thomas Rösner]

Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
> On Thursday 30 November 2006 10:22, Jorge Almeida wrote:
>
>   
>> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Dale wrote:
>>     
>>> used epiphany before.  What's it look like?
>>>       
>> Have no idea, I didn't tried either. Being something from Gnome, I
>> suspect it's not very customizable, but I may be completely wrong.
>>     
>
> You can find more info here:
> http://www.gnome.org/projects/epiphany/
> seems that it uses the gecko rendering engine, the same used by firefox 
> and seamonkey (and can use the plugins too). Like many Gnome programs, 
> it aims to be simple, easy to use and probably not very customizable (no 
> flames, just my impression).
>   

If all apps were like Epiphany, Gnome wouldn't be beaten around that 
much, me thinks (and I wouldn't use ROX-Filer instead of Nautilus). If 
you want to try something fresh, perhaps you find this article gives you 
an impulse:

http://ploum.frimouvy.org/?2006/03/15/100-why-you-should-try-epiphany-as-your-default-browser-with-gnome-214

Regards,
    Thomas
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

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On Fri, 8 Dec 2006, Thomas Rösner wrote:

> Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
>>  On Thursday 30 November 2006 10:22, Jorge Almeida wrote:
>>
>> 
>> >  On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Dale wrote:
>> > 
>> > >  used epiphany before.  What's it look like?
>> > > 
>> >  Have no idea, I didn't tried either. Being something from Gnome, I
>> >  suspect it's not very customizable, but I may be completely wrong.
>> > 
>
> If all apps were like Epiphany, Gnome wouldn't be beaten around that much, me 
> thinks (and I wouldn't use ROX-Filer instead of Nautilus). If you want to try 
> something fresh, perhaps you find this article gives you an impulse:
>
> http://ploum.frimouvy.org/?2006/03/15/100-why-you-should-try-epiphany-as-your-default-browser-with-gnome-214
>
Thanks for your suggestion, Thomas, but the key word is "with-gnome". I
won't comment on the customizability of Epiphany, since I haven't tried
it. But I checked that it requires a lot of Gnome dependencies, which
I'm not willing to install. And I use KDE, not because I find it perfect
but because AFAIK it's the only DE that has two features that for me are
a must: (1) Several virtual desktops, plus the possibility to switch
desktops via configurable keyboard shortcuts, and (2) the possibility of
setting different background images for different desktops.
The latter is not just a matter of eye candy, it's just how I see which
virtual desktop is the current one.

I don't think Gnome can do this, at least not unless you're a
guru-wizard, which I'm not.

Cheers.
-- 
Jorge

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Thomas Rösner]

Jorge Almeida wrote:
> [...] I use KDE, not because I find it perfect
> but because AFAIK it's the only DE that has two features that for me are
> a must: (1) Several virtual desktops, plus the possibility to switch
> desktops via configurable keyboard shortcuts, and (2) the possibility of
> setting different background images for different desktops.
> The latter is not just a matter of eye candy, it's just how I see which
> virtual desktop is the current one.
>
> I don't think Gnome can do this, at least not unless you're a
> guru-wizard, which I'm not.

Can do 1 (using it a lot), can't do 2 (yet?). Not to convince you no 
matter what, just for completeness.

Happy surfing,
    Thomas
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Thursday 30 November 2006 09:57, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Dale wrote:
> > Try Seamonkey then.  I have not had such a problem with it.
>
> Right now, I more inclined to Konqueror and/or Opera, but who knows.
>
> But, speaking of Seamonkey: although I'm not thinking of using Epiphany
> (due to the Gnome dependencies), I issued emerge -pv epiphany, and this
> is what I got. Anyone knows why epiphany has seamonkey as dependency?
>
> Calculating dependencies... done!
> [blocks B     ] www-client/mozilla (is blocking www-client/seamonkey-1.0.6)
[SNIP]

Seamonkey replaces Mozilla. Therefore Mozilla needs to be unmerged before 
Seamonkey can be installed...

-- 
Bo Andresen

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

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On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote:

>
> Seamonkey replaces Mozilla. Therefore Mozilla needs to be unmerged before
> Seamonkey can be installed...
>
>
Yes, that part is clear. The point is why should Seamonkey be necessary
to install Epiphany?

-- 
Jorge Almeida

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 08:57:54 +0000 (WET), Jorge Almeida wrote:

> But, speaking of Seamonkey: although I'm not thinking of using Epiphany
> (due to the Gnome dependencies), I issued emerge -pv epiphany, and this
> is what I got. Anyone knows why epiphany has seamonkey as dependency?
> 
> Calculating dependencies... done!
[snip]
> [ebuild  N    ] www-client/epiphany-2.14.2.1-r1  USE="python -debug
> -doc -firefox" 3,515 kB

It's the -firefox USE flag. Add firefox to USE and it will depend on FF
instead of seamonkey.

BTW another vote for Konqueror here, it just makes everything so easy. 


-- 
Neil Bothwick

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Neil Bothwick wrote:

>
> It's the -firefox USE flag. Add firefox to USE and it will depend on FF
> instead of seamonkey.
But why must a browser (Epiphany) depend on another browser (FF, Seamonkey,...)?
>
> BTW another vote for Konqueror here, it just makes everything so easy.
Thank you.
>
>
>

-- 
Jorge Almeida
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 616 bytes --]

On Thursday 30 November 2006 10:54, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > It's the -firefox USE flag. Add firefox to USE and it will depend on FF
> > instead of seamonkey.
>
> But why must a browser (Epiphany) depend on another browser (FF,
> Seamonkey,...)?

Because the gnome fellows didn't feel like implementing yet another html 
renderer and the mozilla fellows didn't split the renderer for firefox or 
seamonkey out in a separate package for all of them to depend on. This is the 
same as konqueror depending on khtml which is part of kdelibs...

-- 
Bo Andresen

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Daniel da Veiga]

On 11/29/06, Jorge Almeida <jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote:
> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing
> doesn't let me choose the language, and I'm tired of getting useless
> Brazilian links. Yes, I know about the settings, I already deleted the
> google.pt cookie, but it's no use. I don't know, nor care, whose fault
> it is (Google's, firefox's or mine, for not having telepathic gifts), I
> just won't let anyone choose for me.
>

Have you tried the "Google in English" link at the bottom of the page?
I just tried it and it returned in English at the same session after
closing the page. As firefox mantains your session, I believe its a
solution. I have no brazilian links when I search for English words
(at least not at the top of the list).

> So, the point is: what browser now? Firefox is the one more often
> mentioned in this list. How about Konqueror or Opera? The latter is
> hardly ever mentioned. Is there some special reason for this? For
> example, is it activelly maintained? Is it missing some particular
> feature? It looks nice enough, but is there some catch? And Konqueror? I
> already use KDE, so that's not an issue.
>

I use firefox all the time, but Konqueror is fine, so is Opera, never
benchmarked any of those neither tried different pages, but I like
Opera because I used to run it on Windows few years ago.

-- 
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Daniel da Veiga wrote:

>
> Have you tried the "Google in English" link at the bottom of the page?

I'm not sure about what you mean. I don't have such link at a normal
page. If you mean a Google preferences page, I've been there several
times, selected "Tips in English", chose the languages to look for when
browsing (English, Portuguese, French and Spanish) and didn't forget to
save preferences. Things go well in the same session, but on restarting
Firefox there it comes again, like a bad zombie.
> I use firefox all the time, but Konqueror is fine, so is Opera, never
> benchmarked any of those neither tried different pages, but I like
> Opera because I used to run it on Windows few years ago.
>
I'm inclined to try Opera. I hope it isn't Windows-oriented!
-- 
Jorge Almeida
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Hans de Hartog wrote:

>
> Just to stay close to what you're used to: how about good old mozilla?

That's something that isn't clear to me: Is Mozilla still actively
maintained? If so, what's the rationale for Firefox? I changed to
Firefox because I assumed Mozilla was going to disappear... And why all
the fuss about Firefox?

> But, I think if you put a little more effort in Firefox, I guess you
> can easily get rid of the annoying behavior (delete all the cookies,
> history, cache, .mozilla/firefox, maybe re-emerge).
>
I don't want to lose customizations. That's something I really hate.
As for re-emerging, that's been done more than once, when an upgrade is
available. (The problem is with me for too long!)
>

-- 
Jorge Almeida
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Wednesday 29 November 2006 22:46, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Hans de Hartog wrote:
> > Just to stay close to what you're used to: how about good old mozilla?
>
> That's something that isn't clear to me: Is Mozilla still actively
> maintained? If so, what's the rationale for Firefox? I changed to
> Firefox because I assumed Mozilla was going to disappear... And why all
> the fuss about Firefox?

fuss??

What's your LINGUAS set to? `emerge -vp mozilla-firefox` if in doubt? Also did 
you try the "Google.com in English" link? It's stored for me. (Perhaps it 
would help if you provided a link to the result page with useless brazilian 
links...)

Either way. The alternatives for X that I'm aware of are www-client/opera, 
kde-base/konqueror, www-client/seamonkey and www-client/epiphany. Seamonkey 
is the actively maintained replacement for Mozilla. Firefox was supposed to 
be a lightweight Mozilla that only does browsing as opposed to browsing, 
mailing, irc, calendar... I'd say they failed a bit with the lightweight bit. 
Hopefully it'll get better...

Personally I'm using firefox because I haven't figured out how to get any of 
the others to behave like I want them to. Konqueror, Epiphany and Opera are 
all a lot faster than Firefox though. Seamonkey I don't know about since I 
never really liked it.

-- 
Bo Andresen

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 1849 bytes --]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote:

>
> What's your LINGUAS set to? `emerge -vp mozilla-firefox` if in doubt? Also did
[ebuild   R   ] www-client/mozilla-firefox-1.5.0.8  USE="java xprint -debug -gnome -ipv6 -mozdevelop -moznopango -xinerama" LINGUAS="-ar -bg -ca -cs -da -de -el -en_GB -es -es_AR -es_ES -eu -fi -fr -ga -ga_IE -gu_IN -he -hu -it -ja -ko -lt -mk -nb -nb_NO -nl -pa_IN -pl -pt_BR -ro -ru -sk -sl -sv -sv_SE -tr -zh_CN -zh_TW" 0 kB

> you try the "Google.com in English" link? It's stored for me. (Perhaps it
If you mean the link www.google.com, I can't use it, because it is
redirected to www.google.pt.
> would help if you provided a link to the result page with useless brazilian
> links...)
Never mind. I'm done with FF. What I was asking for was feedback 
about the other browsers.
>
> Either way. The alternatives for X that I'm aware of are www-client/opera,
> kde-base/konqueror, www-client/seamonkey and www-client/epiphany. Seamonkey
> is the actively maintained replacement for Mozilla. Firefox was supposed to
> be a lightweight Mozilla that only does browsing as opposed to browsing,
> mailing, irc, calendar... I'd say they failed a bit with the lightweight bit.
> Hopefully it'll get better...
I remember that in Mozilla I could press a letter key and it would go
to the next link mactching that letter. I missed that in FF. On the
other hand, I had no use for mailer+calendar etc.
>
> Personally I'm using firefox because I haven't figured out how to get any of
> the others to behave like I want them to. Konqueror, Epiphany and Opera are
> all a lot faster than Firefox though. Seamonkey I don't know about since I
OK, it's good to know. Epiphany is not a good choice for me, because I
would have to install a lot of gnome dependencies.
>
>
Thank you.

-- 
Jorge Almeida

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jerônimo Backes]

> > What's your LINGUAS set to? `emerge -vp mozilla-firefox` if in doubt? Also did
> [ebuild   R   ] www-client/mozilla-firefox-1.5.0.8  USE="java xprint -debug -gnome -ipv6 -mozdevelop -moznopango -xinerama" LINGUAS="-ar -bg -ca -cs -da -de -el -en_GB -es -es_AR -es_ES -eu -fi -fr -ga -ga_IE -gu_IN -he -hu -it -ja -ko -lt -mk -nb -nb_NO -nl -pa_IN -pl *-pt_BR* -ro -ru -sk -sl -sv -sv_SE -tr -zh_CN -zh_TW" 0 kB

Hey, your LINGUAS is set to -pt_BR. You should have pt_BR instead.



		
_______________________________________________________ 
Novidade no Yahoo! Mail: receba alertas de novas mensagens no seu celular. Registre seu aparelho agora! 
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Steve Dibb]

Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Hans de Hartog wrote:
>
>>
>> Just to stay close to what you're used to: how about good old mozilla?
>
> That's something that isn't clear to me: Is Mozilla still actively
> maintained? If so, what's the rationale for Firefox? I changed to
> Firefox because I assumed Mozilla was going to disappear... And why all
> the fuss about Firefox? 

 From what I understand, development of the Mozilla suite has stopped.  
Seamonkey is the old Mozilla-style suite of packages, but the backend is 
the newer Firefox / Thunderbird code.

Steve
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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] browser advice

[Daniel Iliev]

Steve Dibb wrote:
>
> From what I understand, development of the Mozilla suite has stopped. 
> Seamonkey is the old Mozilla-style suite of packages, but the backend
> is the newer Firefox / Thunderbird code.
>
> Steve

I don't think so. I believe seamonkey is based on the code of "Mozilla
Application Suite". At least it's what the site of the project reads:

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/

-- 
Best regards,
Daniel


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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Fabian Hackhofer]

Jorge Almeida schrieb:
> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing
> doesn't let me choose the language, and I'm tired of getting useless
> Brazilian links.

Ever tried to type site:uk or site:us after the search-phrase?
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Fabian Hackhofer wrote:

> Jorge Almeida schrieb:
>> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing
>> doesn't let me choose the language, and I'm tired of getting useless
>> Brazilian links.
>
> Ever tried to type site:uk or site:us after the search-phrase?
>
No, didn't know about that. But it just shouldn't be necessary...

-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Mick]

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On Wednesday 29 November 2006 22:30, Fabian Hackhofer wrote:
> Jorge Almeida schrieb:
> > I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing
> > doesn't let me choose the language, and I'm tired of getting useless
> > Brazilian links.
>
> Ever tried to type site:uk or site:us after the search-phrase?

I suspect that this is a google not FF issue.  When I change countries I get 
responses relative to the (geographic) IP that I logon from.  If you use a 
http proxy from another country do you still get Brazilian links? (google for 
public proxies to test this).

Browser-wise I use Konqueror and Opera.  I prefer Opera for speed (despite the 
fact that I am mostly connecting with ADSL) and for privacy - unlike gecko 
and Khtml engined browsers Opera does not divulge Referrer headers, unless 
you set it to do so.  I have been using Opera for around 6 years and have 
found that they continuously develop this browser and it's features, while 
retaining a smaller footprint than any(?) other browser.  They have developed 
a sometimes buggy mail client which along with a multitude of other clients 
(news, IM, SMS, etc) is integrated in a non-intrusive manner with the Opera 
browser.  The Opera mail client database principle and its filters was 
effectively copied by Google after a few years and was implemented as the now 
well known Gmail.  Every now and then I see one of Opera's features or 
functionality e.g. tabs being copied by other browsers.  Opera continue 
development for many different platforms (I first came across Opera on a 
Psion 5mx!).  Other than the sometimes buggy releases although Opera comes 
free for Linux, it is *not* open source.  That said it has a big community 
following and great support through forums and ng.

Konqueror has come in leaps & bounds over the last few years and is now the 
best stds compliant browser than the all the rest (check acid test 2).  Since 
it integrates nicely with Kmail I tend to use it a lot when I browse links in 
messages, or when I have already launched other KDE apps and the associated 
kdeinit and kio-slaves are already running.

Finally, I use FF when I come across websites that won't render properly in 
the other two browsers - invariably on stupidly designed internet banking 
sites which discriminate against anything other than M$IE & Netscape!!!

HTH.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman]

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Mick wrote:
> Jorge Almeida schrieb:
>> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English.

> When I change countries I get  responses relative to the (geographic) IP that I logon from.

Well, for this problem, I use this:

http://www.google.com/ncr

That's the Google in English permanente link. It redirects you to google.com, after setting the lang
to english (by http referer I'm sure).

- --
Arturo "Buanzo" Busleiman - Consultor Independiente en Seguridad Informatica
Me caso este 1ro de diciembre: Lista de Casamiento Numero 37520 en todos los FRAVEGA!! :)
http://www.buanzo.com.ar | http://www.vivamoslavida.com.ar : Portal no-comercial del buen vivir!

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman wrote:
>
>> When I change countries I get  responses relative to the (geographic) IP that I logon from.
>
> Well, for this problem, I use this:
>
> http://www.google.com/ncr
>
> That's the Google in English permanente link. It redirects you to google.com, after setting the lang
> to english (by http referer I'm sure).
Thank you!
-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman wrote:
>> That's the Google in English permanente link. It redirects you to
>> google.com, after setting the lang
>> to english (by http referer I'm sure).

> Thank you!

Glad to be of help, always.

- --
Arturo "Buanzo" Busleiman - Consultor Independiente en Seguridad Informatica
Me caso este 1ro de diciembre: Lista de Casamiento Numero 37520 en todos los FRAVEGA!! :)
http://www.buanzo.com.ar | http://www.vivamoslavida.com.ar : Portal no-comercial del buen vivir!

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Benno Schulenberg]

Mick wrote:
> unlike gecko and Khtml engined browsers Opera does not
> divulge Referrer headers, unless you set it to do so.

Firefox can also withhold the Referer line.  In about:config filter 
for referer, set it to zero.  Anyone know if Konqeeror can do this?

Benno
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Robert Smith]

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Just don't try out Opera or you'll get even more annoyed at Firefox :-)

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Mick]

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On Thursday 30 November 2006 23:35, Benno Schulenberg wrote:
> Mick wrote:
> > unlike gecko and Khtml engined browsers Opera does not
> > divulge Referrer headers, unless you set it to do so.
>
> Firefox can also withhold the Referer line.  In about:config filter
> for referer, set it to zero.  Anyone know if Konqeeror can do this?

Short of using Privoxy I am not sure.  I have googled for it but I couldn't 
find anything - however, I'm not the best googler, so YMMV.  I would be using 
Konqueror more often if I could toggle the referrer header just like Opera.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Philip Webb]

061129 Jorge Almeida wrote:
> what browser ? Firefox is the one more often mentioned in this list.
> How about Konqueror or Opera? The latter is hardly ever mentioned.

I have been a happy user of Epiphany for some time:
it's fast, lacks the complexity of Firefox & has a nice tab menu;
I compile it with the Seamonkey engine.

Generally, I'm a KDE fan, but Epiphany is one of Gnome's successes.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Daniel Iliev]

Jorge Almeida wrote:
> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing
> doesn't let me choose the language, and I'm tired of getting useless
> Brazilian links. Yes, I know about the settings, I already deleted the
> google.pt cookie, but it's no use. I don't know, nor care, whose fault
> it is (Google's, firefox's or mine, for not having telepathic gifts), I
> just won't let anyone choose for me.
>
> So, the point is: what browser now? Firefox is the one more often
> mentioned in this list. How about Konqueror or Opera? The latter is
> hardly ever mentioned. Is there some special reason for this? For
> example, is it activelly maintained? Is it missing some particular
> feature? It looks nice enough, but is there some catch? And Konqueror? I
> already use KDE, so that's not an issue.
>
> I would appreciate your opinions.
>

You could also try Seamonkey [1] which is closer replacement of Mozilla
than Firefox. It is an "all-in-one" solution just like Mozilla (web
browser, e-mail client, HTML composer, IRC client). It can be found in
portage.

[1] http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/


P.S.
Have you set Firefox to clean your private information (and especially
cookies) at exit? If so, the behavior you describe is normal, because
your preferences for google are stored by cookies.

-- 
Best regards,
Daniel


-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Daniel Iliev wrote:

>
> You could also try Seamonkey [1] which is closer replacement of Mozilla
> than Firefox. It is an "all-in-one" solution just like Mozilla (web
> browser, e-mail client, HTML composer, IRC client). It can be found in
> portage.
>
I'll take a look at it. I really just need the browser part (maybe the
composer too).
> [1] http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/
>
>
> P.S.
> Have you set Firefox to clean your private information (and especially
> cookies) at exit? If so, the behavior you describe is normal, because
> your preferences for google are stored by cookies.
>
No, and I checked that there are cookies after exiting FF.
The file cookies.txt shows google.com but not google.pt.
>
Thanks,

Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[David Blamire-Brown]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:00:06 +0000 (WET)
Jorge Almeida <jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote:

> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing

> So, the point is: what browser now? Firefox is the one more often
> mentioned in this list. How about Konqueror or Opera? The latter is
> hardly ever mentioned. Is there some special reason for this? For
> example, is it activelly maintained? Is it missing some particular
> feature? It looks nice enough, but is there some catch? 

Another vote for Opera here. I'm running 9.02 at home.
A few observations from my set-up, although they could be as much to do
me having not got something else in my configuration right ...

1) This version of Opera really seems to struggle with "heavy" pages.
The whole app slows down, no response to clicks etc, until the page has
fully rendered. Example of affected page:
http://funds.ft.com/funds/searchFund.do?symb=AQSTG&type=F1

2) Opera infrequently causes my system to hang completely. I can't ctrl
+alt+F1 to a terminal screen, I can ctrl+alt+backspace to kill X, I
can't do anything. It's a hard reboot of the box. Admittedly I'm
slightly impatient, but I give it 10 secs before hitting reset,
sometimes longer. I can't categorically state that it's Opera, but I've
a very strong suspicion. Especially given that I basically use an
xterm, sylpheed and opera 95% of the time.

3) Javascript seems fairly broken in Opera - but that could be my fault
for not setting something up properly.

4) Some pages just don't render properly in Opera and I have occasion
to fall back to firefox. As another poster said, it's often badly
designed banking sites. 

5) Overall though, IMO Opera is a nicer browser to use than firefox.
Tabbed browsing is implemented in a more effective fashion. Keyboard
shortcuts are lovely, eg F2 to bring a dialog for typing a URL, which
can be configured to fire up a new tab is very nice. Shift+F2 allows
you to have a one key shortcut for favourite bookmarks (again firing
up a new tab). Sidebar is far more effective in Opera. Obviously
personal preference, but I much prefer it.

Regards,
David

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: browser advice

[7v5w7go9ub0o]

> Another vote for Opera here. I'm running 9.02 at home.
> A few observations from my set-up, although they could be as much to do
> me having not got something else in my configuration right ...

And another strong Opera vote here :-)


>
> 1) This version of Opera really seems to struggle with "heavy" pages.
> The whole app slows down, no response to clicks etc, until the page has
> fully rendered. Example of affected page:
> http://funds.ft.com/funds/searchFund.do?symb=AQSTG&type=F1
>
> 2) Opera infrequently causes my system to hang completely. I can't ctrl
> +alt+F1 to a terminal screen, I can ctrl+alt+backspace to kill X, I
> can't do anything. It's a hard reboot of the box. Admittedly I'm
> slightly impatient, but I give it 10 secs before hitting reset,
> sometimes longer. I can't categorically state that it's Opera, but I've
> a very strong suspicion. Especially given that I basically use an
> xterm, sylpheed and opera 95% of the time.

Not had these issues ....... sorry.

>
> 3) Javascript seems fairly broken in Opera - but that could be my fault
> for not setting something up properly.

JS works great here - perhaps reemerge everything?

>
> 4) Some pages just don't render properly in Opera and I have occasion
> to fall back to firefox. As another poster said, it's often badly
> designed banking sites.

Yep ..... So I changed banks (earlier bank wanted I.E.). I tell them that  
if they want my business, they'll get their site to work on Linux/Opera.  
Present bank got it to work fine (not perfect rendition - but functional).

>
> 5) Overall though, IMO Opera is a nicer browser to use than firefox.
> Tabbed browsing is implemented in a more effective fashion. Keyboard
> shortcuts are lovely, eg F2 to bring a dialog for typing a URL, which
> can be configured to fire up a new tab is very nice. Shift+F2 allows
> you to have a one key shortcut for favourite bookmarks (again firing
> up a new tab). Sidebar is far more effective in Opera. Obviously
> personal preference, but I much prefer it.
>

IMHO, Opera loads MUCH faster, and surfs much faster as well. ALSO, it is  
easy to put Opera in a Chroot Jail; FF is a PITA to put into a jail.

Final note is that most FF users seem to have never tried Opera; Most  
Opera users have tried FF - gotten it to work adequately - and chosen  
Opera.


-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: browser advice

[Mick]

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On Thursday 30 November 2006 00:46, 7v5w7go9ub0o wrote:

> > 1) This version of Opera really seems to struggle with "heavy" pages.

Opera takes a bit longer to load fonts other than the default fonts for your 
set up.  This happens to me when I come across pages with Chinese type of 
characters.  Once the fonts have been loaded the delay does not occur again 
on the same session.

> > The whole app slows down, no response to clicks etc, until the page has
> > fully rendered. Example of affected page:
> > http://funds.ft.com/funds/searchFund.do?symb=AQSTG&type=F1
> >
> > 2) Opera infrequently causes my system to hang completely. I can't ctrl
> > +alt+F1 to a terminal screen, I can ctrl+alt+backspace to kill X, I
> > can't do anything. It's a hard reboot of the box. Admittedly I'm
> > slightly impatient, but I give it 10 secs before hitting reset,
> > sometimes longer. I can't categorically state that it's Opera, but I've
> > a very strong suspicion. Especially given that I basically use an
> > xterm, sylpheed and opera 95% of the time.

Opera is usually quite light footed and performs well in resource constrained 
systems - I've been using it on a 600Hz Pentium III with 125M RAM for years 
and have even used it on a Pentium I, with 75M of RAM!!!  The only time I had 
Opera causing *system* crashes was when I had a faulty memory module on my 
MoBo.

> > 3) Javascript seems fairly broken in Opera - but that could be my fault
> > for not setting something up properly.
>
> JS works great here - perhaps reemerge everything?

Ditto.  Opera does not handle the JavaScript code that renders dhtml toolbars, 
like certain online field editors use (e.g. the formatting toolbar that comes 
up in the gmail composing page for html messages).  There might be a couple 
more, but not many.

> > 4) Some pages just don't render properly in Opera and I have occasion
> > to fall back to firefox. As another poster said, it's often badly
> > designed banking sites.

You need to try:

a) setting Referrer on;
b) changing the browser identification to M$IE6, or Mozilla to fool the 
server - Opera will render fine most of M$IE 'optimised' non-standard 
compliant code;
c) accept all cookies - banking sites in particular use a different to their 
main page verifying server to store cookies from;
d) on Opera 9.02 you can set preferences with regards to browser 
identification, Java & JavaScript, cookies, history, etc. preferences on a 
website basis.  Banks feed you a couple of web pages with cookies to test 
your browser and settings before you arrive at the login page.  You need to 
hit stop in a timely fashion (before the cookie test errors out) and then 
right click to change the particular page preferences as per a-c above.

If after all of the above the page still fails to render properly then the 
problem is most likely Opera specific.  The Opera forums and newsgroups can 
offer a lot of help in resolving particular page rendering issues, either in 
terms of browser settings or in terms of debugging html code.

> > 5) Overall though, IMO Opera is a nicer browser to use than firefox.
> > Tabbed browsing is implemented in a more effective fashion. Keyboard
> > shortcuts are lovely, eg F2 to bring a dialog for typing a URL, which
> > can be configured to fire up a new tab is very nice. Shift+F2 allows
> > you to have a one key shortcut for favourite bookmarks (again firing
> > up a new tab). Sidebar is far more effective in Opera. Obviously
> > personal preference, but I much prefer it.

I particularly like/use the save session feature (takes a snapshot of all your 
open tabs/pages and settings for future use), page tiling, the FastForward 
button to scroll through subsequent pages without having to return back to 
the Home page of a website, the launch menu which allows you to continue from 
your last session, etc.  In mail client terms I like the self-learning spam 
filter, powerful search, custom views (sort of folders/filters in other 
clients) and in particular I like view mail messages in threaded view.  I 
wish I could find a way to make Kmail show mail messages in threaded view 
like it does in Knode - any hints?

> IMHO, Opera loads MUCH faster, and surfs much faster as well. ALSO, it is
> easy to put Opera in a Chroot Jail; FF is a PITA to put into a jail.

chroot jail!??  Can you please share a link for this?  Sounds interesting.  :)
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, David Blamire-Brown wrote:

>
> 1) This version of Opera really seems to struggle with "heavy" pages.
> The whole app slows down, no response to clicks etc, until the page has
> fully rendered. Example of affected page:
> http://funds.ft.com/funds/searchFund.do?symb=AQSTG&type=F1
I tried it just now. It took more than 1s to load, but otherwise it
seems normal.
>
> 2) Opera infrequently causes my system to hang completely. I can't ctrl
> +alt+F1 to a terminal screen, I can ctrl+alt+backspace to kill X, I
> can't do anything. It's a hard reboot of the box. Admittedly I'm
> slightly impatient, but I give it 10 secs before hitting reset,
> sometimes longer. I can't categorically state that it's Opera, but I've
> a very strong suspicion. Especially given that I basically use an
> xterm, sylpheed and opera 95% of the time.
This one seems serious. It's a show stopper if it starts happening...
>
> 3) Javascript seems fairly broken in Opera - but that could be my fault
> for not setting something up properly.
There's an extension for FF that blocks javaspoock but allows temporary
unblocking, on-the-fly, for the current site. This is one of the few
things I'll miss. 
>
> 4) Some pages just don't render properly in Opera and I have occasion
> to fall back to firefox. As another poster said, it's often badly
> designed banking sites.
>
> 5) Overall though, IMO Opera is a nicer browser to use than firefox.
> Tabbed browsing is implemented in a more effective fashion. Keyboard
> shortcuts are lovely, eg F2 to bring a dialog for typing a URL, which
> can be configured to fire up a new tab is very nice. Shift+F2 allows
> you to have a one key shortcut for favourite bookmarks (again firing
> up a new tab). Sidebar is far more effective in Opera. Obviously
> personal preference, but I much prefer it.
>

Regards,

Jorge
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Wednesday 29 November 2006 15:00, Jorge Almeida 
<jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote about '[gentoo-user] browser advice':
> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English.
> I don't know, nor care, whose fault 
> it is (Google's, firefox's or mine, for not having telepathic gifts), I
> just won't let anyone choose for me.

Well, if it's not firefox's fault, switching to a new browser may not help.

> So, the point is: what browser now?

I use Konqueror near exclusively; Bon Echo (non-Mozilla-branded Firefox 
2.x) is reserved for site whose javascript is not supported in Konqueror.  
It (Konqueror) even has the ability to use 32-bit plugins in a 64-bit 
browser.  If you use other kde application you'll enjoy the 
loosely-coupled but tight integration, like adding RSS feeds to aKregator 
from Konqueror.

I was an avid Opera user before I switched to Linux.  It's an integrated 
browser along the lines of Mozilla or Seamonkey, containing (at least) a 
mail and new client in addition to the browser.  IME, it was able to 
handle anything sort of ActiveX (that is, everything Firefox can), but 
occasionally you'd have to change your browser identification string to 
something more IE-like or FF-like to convince the webserver to give you 
the correct page.  (Google for: opera oprah microsoft)  I was a fan of 
their support newsgroup, it taught me a lot of little tips and tricks (ala 
Firefox's about:config stuff) that ended up making my browser experience 
uniquely mine.

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

>
> Well, if it's not firefox's fault, switching to a new browser may not help.
>
It does help, I tried before posting. I already had Opera and Konqueror
installed. (It's just that I thought it would be better to hear about
your experiences before starting doing heavy customizations.)
>> So, the point is: what browser now?
>
> I use Konqueror near exclusively; Bon Echo (non-Mozilla-branded Firefox
> 2.x) is reserved for site whose javascript is not supported in Konqueror.
> It (Konqueror) even has the ability to use 32-bit plugins in a 64-bit
> browser.  If you use other kde application you'll enjoy the
> loosely-coupled but tight integration, like adding RSS feeds to aKregator
> from Konqueror.
>
> I was an avid Opera user before I switched to Linux.  It's an integrated
May I ask what led you to change to Konqueror, given that Opera also was
available in Linux?
> browser along the lines of Mozilla or Seamonkey, containing (at least) a
> mail and new client in addition to the browser.  IME, it was able to
> handle anything sort of ActiveX (that is, everything Firefox can), but
> occasionally you'd have to change your browser identification string to
> something more IE-like or FF-like to convince the webserver to give you
> the correct page.  (Google for: opera oprah microsoft)  I was a fan of
> their support newsgroup, it taught me a lot of little tips and tricks (ala
> Firefox's about:config stuff) that ended up making my browser experience
> uniquely mine.
>
>
Regards,

Jorge
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Thursday 30 November 2006 02:51, Jorge Almeida 
<jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote about 'Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice':
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > I use Konqueror near exclusively;
> > I was an avid Opera user before I switched to Linux. 
>
> May I ask what led you to change to Konqueror, given that Opera also was
> available in Linux?

General movement away from proprietary programs.  I'm not completely free, 
but moving that way.

Also, That was back in the 7.x branch of Opera and I believe it was 
available but looked like crap; or I was using a beta that wasn't 
available for linux yet; or it was binary-only and I was installing Gentoo 
(therefore wanted the advantages of compiling from source); or it just 
didn't integrate with KDE (my desktop environment of choice) as well.

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

>>
>> May I ask what led you to change to Konqueror, given that Opera also was
>> available in Linux?
>
> General movement away from proprietary programs.  I'm not completely free,
> but moving that way.
>
> Also, That was back in the 7.x branch of Opera and I believe it was
> available but looked like crap; or I was using a beta that wasn't
> available for linux yet; or it was binary-only and I was installing Gentoo
> (therefore wanted the advantages of compiling from source); or it just
> didn't integrate with KDE (my desktop environment of choice) as well.
>
>
OK. Opera is good-looking now (don't know about the rest yet). I also use
KDE, but I don't care much for integration. I'll probably start using
both Opera and Konqueror...

Thanks.

-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: browser advice

[Moshe Kamensky]

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Hi,

* Jorge Almeida <jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> [30/11/06 09:08]:
> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing
> doesn't let me choose the language, and I'm tired of getting useless
> Brazilian links. Yes, I know about the settings, I already deleted the
> google.pt cookie, but it's no use. I don't know, nor care, whose fault
> it is (Google's, firefox's or mine, for not having telepathic gifts), I
> just won't let anyone choose for me.
> 
> So, the point is: what browser now? Firefox is the one more often
> mentioned in this list. How about Konqueror or Opera? The latter is
> hardly ever mentioned. Is there some special reason for this? For
> example, is it activelly maintained? Is it missing some particular
> feature? It looks nice enough, but is there some catch? And Konqueror? I
> already use KDE, so that's not an issue.
> 
> I would appreciate your opinions.

You may find this helpful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_browsers

For me MathML support is important so I use FF.

Moshe

> 
> -- 
> Jorge Almeida
> -- 
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[malevolent]

2006/11/29, Jorge Almeida <jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt>:
> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing
> doesn't let me choose the language, and I'm tired of getting useless
> Brazilian links. Yes, I know about the settings, I already deleted the
> google.pt cookie, but it's no use. I don't know, nor care, whose fault
> it is (Google's, firefox's or mine, for not having telepathic gifts), I
> just won't let anyone choose for me.
>
> So, the point is: what browser now? Firefox is the one more often
> mentioned in this list. How about Konqueror or Opera? The latter is
> hardly ever mentioned. Is there some special reason for this? For
> example, is it activelly maintained? Is it missing some particular
> feature? It looks nice enough, but is there some catch? And Konqueror? I
> already use KDE, so that's not an issue.
>
> I would appreciate your opinions.
>
> --
> Jorge Almeida
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
Reinstall firefox, below the search box there are a link "Google in
English" that unsets the language cookie... it must work for sure!
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, malevolent wrote:

> Reinstall firefox, below the search box there are a link "Google in
> English" that unsets the language cookie... it must work for sure!
>
That's just the .../ncr link others mentioned. Setting preferences from
that page is as useless as setting them from google.pt, the tips keep
coming in Portuguese. Of course, I could use only that link and give up
using the search window in FF panel. I can give up FF as well.

-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[b.n.]

Jorge Almeida ha scritto:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, malevolent wrote:
> 
>> Reinstall firefox, below the search box there are a link "Google in
>> English" that unsets the language cookie... it must work for sure!
>>
> That's just the .../ncr link others mentioned. Setting preferences from
> that page is as useless as setting them from google.pt, the tips keep
> coming in Portuguese. Of course, I could use only that link and give up
> using the search window in FF panel. I can give up FF as well.

Ah, you use the search box in FF panel. That explains the problem.
Sorry.

m.

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[b.n.]

Jorge Almeida ha scritto:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, malevolent wrote:
> 
>> Reinstall firefox, below the search box there are a link "Google in
>> English" that unsets the language cookie... it must work for sure!
>>
> That's just the .../ncr link others mentioned. Setting preferences from
> that page is as useless as setting them from google.pt, the tips keep
> coming in Portuguese. Of course, I could use only that link and give up
> using the search window in FF panel. I can give up FF as well.
> 

However, before giving up: have you tried to look in
/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/searchplugins/google.src
(that should be the searchplugin of the FF panel)

and edit it with an English URL?
My file is as such:

# Mozilla/Google plug-in by amitp+mozilla@google.com

<search
    name="Google"
    description="Google Search"
    method="GET"
    action="http://www.google.com/search"
    queryCharset="utf-8"
 >

<input name="q" user>
<inputnext name="start" factor="10">
<inputprev>
<input name="ie" value="utf-8">
<input name="oe" value="utf-8">

<interpret
     browserResultType="result"
     charset = "UTF-8"
     resultListStart="<!--a-->"
     resultListEnd="<!--z-->"
     resultItemStart="<!--m-->"
     resultItemEnd="<!--n-->"
 >
</search>

<browser
     update="https://addons.mozilla.org/searchplugins/updates/google.src"
 
updateIcon="https://addons.mozilla.org/searchplugins/updates/google.gif"
     updateCheckDays="1"
 >


I haven't tested, but I think that if you change 
http://www.google.com/search with

http://www.a-working-google-in-english-url.whatever/search

you could have your preferred behaviour hardcoded.

m.
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gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

b.n. wrote:
> However, before giving up: have you tried to look in
> /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/searchplugins/google.src
> (that should be the searchplugin of the FF panel)
> 
> and edit it with an English URL?

Actually, by adding the hl parameter to the GET querystring suffices:

http://www.google.com/search?gl=en&blahblahblah

Edit the file, and add it in the action field. Should work, I guess.

- --
Arturo "Buanzo" Busleiman - Consultor Independiente en Seguridad Informatica
Me caso este 1ro de diciembre: Lista de Casamiento Numero 37520 en todos los FRAVEGA!! :)
http://www.buanzo.com.ar | http://www.vivamoslavida.com.ar : Portal no-comercial del buen vivir!

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Re: [gentoo-user] [hl fix] browser advice

[Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

b.n. wrote:
> However, before giving up: have you tried to look in
> /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/searchplugins/google.src
> (that should be the searchplugin of the FF panel)
>
> and edit it with an English URL?

Actually, by adding the hl parameter to the GET querystring suffices:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&blahblahblah

Where "en" = english, and hl = H(!!!!) language ? :)

Edit the file, and add it in the action field. Should work, I guess.

- --
Arturo "Buanzo" Busleiman - Consultor Independiente en Seguridad Informatica
Me caso este 1ro de diciembre: Lista de Casamiento Numero 37520 en todos los FRAVEGA!! :)
http://www.buanzo.com.ar | http://www.vivamoslavida.com.ar : Portal no-comercial del buen vivir!

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=zs4G
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, b.n. wrote:

>
> However, before giving up: have you tried to look in
> /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/searchplugins/google.src
> (that should be the searchplugin of the FF panel)
>
> and edit it with an English URL?
> My file is as such:
My file looks as yours. It should, because I never edited global
preferences.
>
> I haven't tested, but I think that if you change http://www.google.com/search 
> with
>
> http://www.a-working-google-in-english-url.whatever/search
>
> you could have your preferred behaviour hardcoded.
>
> m.
>
Maybe that would work, but it shouldn't be necessary. And it might not
be a good solution in case the box had more human users.

Please don't bother about this. Changing browser is not a
life-shattering experience, and both Opera and Konqueror seem nice
enough. As for issues like MathMl fonts and such, I'll have to see how
much I miss them.

-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[b.n.]

Jorge Almeida ha scritto:
>> I haven't tested, but I think that if you change 
>> http://www.google.com/search with
>>
>> http://www.a-working-google-in-english-url.whatever/search
>>
>> you could have your preferred behaviour hardcoded.
>>
>> m.
>>
> Maybe that would work, but it shouldn't be necessary. 

Please don't get me wrong -no personal attack intended, really- but 
changing browser too shouldn't be necessary. You continue to complain 
about this (admittedly very minor, even if annoying) bug and instead of 
using just a very simple workaround, you throw out babies and dirty 
water, saying "it shouldn't be necessary". You have a solution, probably 
working, that is much easier than changing browser, importing 
preferences and the like. Why don't you try?

Do as you like it, but it seems to me quite an odd reaction. Next time 
you'll meet a bug in Linux or Gentoo that would just require editing a 
text file, you'll change OS?
:)

The really appropriate reaction, in the meantime, is filing a bug 
(because in this you're perfectly right -it's a bug, or at least an 
annoyance) at the firefox bugzilla, I guess. You're right to complain, 
that's for sure.

> Please don't bother about this. Changing browser is not a
> life-shattering experience, 

Sure, but editing a tiny text file seems even less life-shattering, IMHO.

>and both Opera and Konqueror seem nice
> enough. 

They are good software indeed, just like FF. But what will you do when 
you'll met the next bug with them?

It's not like I want to defend FF. It isn't perfect, and I really don't 
care about what browser are you using. It's the approach that leaves me 
perplexed.

Still, without any animosity. Your complain led me also discover 
something, so it was useful. :)

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Thursday 30 November 2006 17:37, b.n. wrote:
[SNIP]
> Why don't you try?

Maybe he just needed an excuse to finally check out the alternatives. After 
all the performance of firefox is pretty horrific...

[SNIP]
> The really appropriate reaction, in the meantime, is filing a bug
> (because in this you're perfectly right -it's a bug, or at least an
> annoyance) at the firefox bugzilla, I guess. You're right to complain,
> that's for sure.

That's assuming it hasn't been filed already. And that it isn't just some 
misconfiguration somewhere. I guess the latter could be tested by temporarily 
moving .mozilla and creating a new profile just to see it that changes it's 
behaviour.

> > Please don't bother about this. Changing browser is not a
> > life-shattering experience,
>
> Sure, but editing a tiny text file seems even less life-shattering, IMHO.

It would require adding a line like e.g:

<input name="hl" value="en">

> >and both Opera and Konqueror seem nice
> > enough.
>
> They are good software indeed, just like FF. But what will you do when
> you'll met the next bug with them?

Then at least he knows what the alternatives are..

-- 
Bo Andresen

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[b.n.]

> Maybe he just needed an excuse to finally check out the alternatives. After 
> all the performance of firefox is pretty horrific...

That's sad but true.

> That's assuming it hasn't been filed already. 

Well, it was implicit to check if a bug has been filed before filing 
it... :)

> And that it isn't just some 
> misconfiguration somewhere. I guess the latter could be tested by temporarily 
> moving .mozilla and creating a new profile just to see it that changes it's 
> behaviour.

True.

>> They are good software indeed, just like FF. But what will you do when
>> you'll met the next bug with them?
> 
> Then at least he knows what the alternatives are..

Good point. :)

m.


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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, b.n. wrote:

>
> Please don't get me wrong -no personal attack intended, really- but changing 
> browser too shouldn't be necessary. You continue to complain about this

No, I don't. Maybe you don't have the whole thread present to memory.
I mentioned the reason why I want to dump FF. Once. And I asked for the
list members to share their experiences/impressions/opinions about
_other_ browsers. I didn't ask for sympathy nor for help with my FF
troubles. If some people chose to give suggestions about it, I
appreciate it and reply to them, but my intentions about FF are not
bound to change. (They might if an _explanation_ arose, as opposite to
a workaround which may work today but maybe not tomorrow.)

>
> Do as you like it, but it seems to me quite an odd reaction. Next time you'll 
> meet a bug in Linux or Gentoo that would just require editing a text file, 
> you'll change OS?
No. There are not many OSs left. I like Linux, but I would prefer a more
let's-understand-it and less let's-push-buttons attitude from the
general community. Still, the world is what it is and it's not up to me
to judge...
And I don't mind at all editing config files, I find it much better than
clicking boxes in some half-baked "wizard". It's just that I appreciate
knowing what I'm doing, I'm not a fan of the "JustWorks(TM)".
> :) 
>
> The really appropriate reaction, in the meantime, is filing a bug (because in 
> this you're perfectly right -it's a bug, or at least an annoyance) at the 
> firefox bugzilla, I guess. You're right to complain, that's for sure.
Since my experience seems to be unique, it's hard to give data about how
to reproduce the problem.
>
>
>> and both Opera and Konqueror seem nice
>>  enough. 
>
> They are good software indeed, just like FF. But what will you do when you'll 
> met the next bug with them?
>
I will do what I usually do when I find bugs in other software: search the
gentoo forums, search Google (in English, I hope), ask for help in
mailing lists,...
I won't read the source because that's beyond my skills. As a user who
is not a CS professional, I have to rely on whatever documentation is
accessible to me. Sometimes I have to dump the software (for example, I
had to switch from bincimap to dovecot, even if bincimap seemed more to
my liking).
In the case of FF, I got tired and chose a different approach, that's all.
>
Regards,

Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[b.n.]

> No, I don't. Maybe you don't have the whole thread present to memory.
> I mentioned the reason why I want to dump FF. Once. And I asked for the
> list members to share their experiences/impressions/opinions about
> _other_ browsers. I didn't ask for sympathy nor for help with my FF
> troubles. If some people chose to give suggestions about it, I
> appreciate it and reply to them, but my intentions about FF are not
> bound to change. (They might if an _explanation_ arose, as opposite to
> a workaround which may work today but maybe not tomorrow.)

I remember perfectly, but more often than not people do the wrong 
question to solve their problems.
Your actual problem seemed to be: "Firefox has bug X". You want to dump 
FF to workaround bug X. We are suggesting other ways to workaround the bug.

> No. There are not many OSs left. I like Linux, but I would prefer a more
> let's-understand-it and less let's-push-buttons attitude from the
> general community. Still, the world is what it is and it's not up to me
> to judge...

1) That's exactly what we are doing. Changing a browser doesn't let you 
understand anything. Digging the FF guts maybe will prove to be useful, 
even if now perhaps it is not, and not only to you.

For example, I discovered the trick of the text file just by looking at 
about:config, searching for the FF search plugins and looking at the 
file it pointed.

> And I don't mind at all editing config files, I find it much better than
> clicking boxes in some half-baked "wizard". It's just that I appreciate
> knowing what I'm doing, I'm not a fan of the "JustWorks(TM)".

Again, that's exactly what we're trying to do together.

> Since my experience seems to be unique, it's hard to give data about how
> to reproduce the problem.

Looking for it/filing it would be useful anyway. People of the FF team 
surely know better than us what the problem could be.

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[b.n.]

Jorge Almeida ha scritto:
> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing
> doesn't let me choose the language, and I'm tired of getting useless
> Brazilian links. Yes, I know about the settings, I already deleted the
> google.pt cookie, but it's no use. I don't know, nor care, whose fault
> it is (Google's, firefox's or mine, for not having telepathic gifts), I
> just won't let anyone choose for me.
> 
> So, the point is: what browser now? Firefox is the one more often
> mentioned in this list. How about Konqueror or Opera? The latter is
> hardly ever mentioned. Is there some special reason for this? For
> example, is it activelly maintained? Is it missing some particular
> feature? It looks nice enough, but is there some catch? And Konqueror? I
> already use KDE, so that's not an issue.
> 
> I would appreciate your opinions.
> 

Maybe it's me being dense, and I see you are very determined, but: many 
people in this 3d has suggested you *how* to google in English with FF. 
I have no special love for FF (although I use it), but all the hassle of 
changing browser, getting accustomed, missing extensions you liked etc. 
shouldn't be solved by simply changing your homepage to an english 
google homepage of those that has been suggested?

I just can't get it, sorry. :)
It seems to me you want to kill a mosquito with an atomic bomb.

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Matthias Bethke]

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Hi Jorge,
on Wednesday, 2006-11-29 at 21:00:06, you wrote:
> I'm about to dump Firefox, because I can't google in English. The thing
> doesn't let me choose the language, and I'm tired of getting useless
> Brazilian links. Yes, I know about the settings, I already deleted the
> google.pt cookie, but it's no use. I don't know, nor care, whose fault
> it is (Google's, firefox's or mine, for not having telepathic gifts), I
> just won't let anyone choose for me.

Are you sure you aren't being sent to the Portuguese version because
Google finds your IP is in Portugual and redirects you to where it
thinks you want to go? I've seen this in .de, .br and .ph, so I presume
it's the same in other countries.
I also don't want the national versions so I go directly to
http://www.google.com/advanced_search
where the redirection doesn't happen. Works fine in any browser here.

cheers!
	Matthias
-- 
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Fingerprint: 8C16 3F0A A6FC DF0D 19B0  8DEF 48D9 1700 FAC3 7665

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Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Matthias Bethke wrote:

> Hi Jorge,
> on Wednesday, 2006-11-29 at 21:00:06, you wrote:
>
> Are you sure you aren't being sent to the Portuguese version because
> Google finds your IP is in Portugual and redirects you to where it
> thinks you want to go? I've seen this in .de, .br and .ph, so I presume
> it's the same in other countries.

Yes, but redirection shouldn't be a problem. The Google preferences
are supposed to determine what language Google uses and what pages it
searches, and these preferences are just not kept.

> I also don't want the national versions so I go directly to
> http://www.google.com/advanced_search
> where the redirection doesn't happen. Works fine in any browser here.
>
It is good to have this link, together with others mentioned in this
thread.  But I need to search files in several languages, not just
English, so I set the preferences. Then, since they are not kept, I would
have to do it everytime I would start a search!
>
Cheers,

Jorge
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] browser advice

[b.n.]

Jorge Almeida ha scritto:

> It is good to have this link, together with others mentioned in this
> thread.  But I need to search files in several languages, not just
> English, so I set the preferences. Then, since they are not kept, I would
> have to do it everytime I would start a search!

Even better, you could actually *add* search plugins to FF.
So you shouldn't have to set preferences at all. You'd have a list of 
google searches in different languages, just choose the one you want and 
use it.

m.
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