[gentoo-user] pet peeve: sending normal output to stderr (env-update)

[gentoo-user] pet peeve: sending normal output to stderr (env-update)

[David Talkington]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Why on earth does env-update send this:

>>> Regenerating /etc/ld.so.cache...

to stderr instead of stdout?  This makes it very difficult to see only 
abnormal output in a cron job.

I stopped using wget because of precisely that irritation.  I cannot for 
the life of me think of a good reason to do this.

- --
David Talkington

PGP key: http://www.prairienet.org/~dtalk/004B8F8B.asc
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFWgIB5FKhdwBLj4sRAvR+AKCCNDISnN0SQZQTo3Piu3yCEoYP0QCfTZxD
7/sMMrJEkY91a5sw5VR3W5Q=
=ELRL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] pet peeve: sending normal output to stderr (env-update)

[Glenn McCarthy]

On Wed Nov 15 2006 6:50 am, David Talkington wrote:
> Why on earth does env-update send this:
> >>> Regenerating /etc/ld.so.cache...
>
> to stderr instead of stdout?  This makes it very difficult to see only
> abnormal output in a cron job.
>
> I stopped using wget because of precisely that irritation.  I cannot for
> the life of me think of a good reason to do this.
>
> --
> David Talkington
>
> PGP key: http://www.prairienet.org/~dtalk/004B8F8B.asc
You can redirect stderr to stdout like this.

env-update 2>&1

Glenn McCarthy
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] pet peeve: sending normal output to stderr (env-update)

[Richard Fish]

On 11/14/06, David Talkington <dtalk@prairienet.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> Why on earth does env-update send this:
>
> >>> Regenerating /etc/ld.so.cache...

env-update.sh outputs this message with a simple "echo", so no output
to stdout here.  However portage writes most ">>>" messages to stderr.

You can either file a bug report on bugs.gentoo.org to try and get the
behavior changed, or use "emerge ... 2>&1 >/dev/null | grep -v -e '>>>
Regenerating '".  This will send stdout to /dev/null, and stderr to
the pipe where grep can filter out whatever messages annoy you.

-Richard
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] pet peeve: sending normal output to stderr (env-update)

[Daniel Iliev]

Richard Fish wrote:
> On 11/14/06, David Talkington <dtalk@prairienet.org> wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>>
>> Why on earth does env-update send this:
>>
>> >>> Regenerating /etc/ld.so.cache...
>
> env-update.sh outputs this message with a simple "echo", so no output
> to stdout here.  However portage writes most ">>>" messages to stderr.
>
> You can either file a bug report on bugs.gentoo.org to try and get the
> behavior changed, or use "emerge ... 2>&1 >/dev/null | grep -v -e '>>>
> Regenerating '".  This will send stdout to /dev/null, and stderr to
> the pipe where grep can filter out whatever messages annoy you.
>
> -Richard


"emerge ... 2>&1 >/dev/null | grep -v -e '>>> Regenerating '"

Isn't '>/dev/null' here by "typing habit" ? I think the right way is:

command 2>&1 | grep...


-- 
Best regards,
Daniel


-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] pet peeve: sending normal output to stderr (env-update)

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

On Tuesday 14 November 2006 22:40, Daniel Iliev wrote:

> "emerge ... 2>&1 >/dev/null | grep -v -e '>>> Regenerating '"
>
> Isn't '>/dev/null' here by "typing habit" ? I think the right way is:
>
> command 2>&1 | grep...

Your version does not suppress standard output, Richard's version does 
(I'm not saying that one is better than the other though...).
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] pet peeve: sending normal output to stderr (env-update)

[Daniel Iliev]

Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
> On Tuesday 14 November 2006 22:40, Daniel Iliev wrote:
>
>   
>> "emerge ... 2>&1 >/dev/null | grep -v -e '>>> Regenerating '"
>>
>> Isn't '>/dev/null' here by "typing habit" ? I think the right way is:
>>
>> command 2>&1 | grep...
>>     
>
> Your version does not suppress standard output, Richard's version does 
> (I'm not saying that one is better than the other though...).
>   

Ooops! My mistake. Sorry.

It is written "command 2>&1 >/dev/null" but I read "command >/dev/null 2>&1"


Richard is right (as usual) :)


-- 
Best regards,
Daniel


-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: pet peeve: sending normal output to stderr (env-update)

[David Talkington]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Richard Fish wrote:

> env-update.sh outputs this message with a simple "echo", so no output
> to stdout here.  However portage writes most ">>>" messages to stderr.

Well and good, but this is not an abnormal message, and there's no 
reason for it to go to stderr.  stderr is for errors, else it's just 
unbuffered stdout, which isn't terribly helpful.

File descriptor gymnastics and text munging should not be required in 
order to separate expected output from abnormal conditions.  I expect 
that from Microsoft.  ;-)

> You can either file a bug report on bugs.gentoo.org to try and get the
> behavior changed,

Thank you, I'll look into that.  Obviously, I was merely venting here.

Cheers -d

- --
David Talkington

PGP key: http://www.prairienet.org/~dtalk/004B8F8B.asc
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFXLLA5FKhdwBLj4sRAr9eAJkBO7D7empiwxkA7+MriXL4tkx5sQCfaZXV
8rPuON/F03fbU5SCuxFrucQ=
=3WNZ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: pet peeve: sending normal output to stderr (env-update)

[Richard Fish]

On 11/16/06, David Talkington <dtalk@prairienet.org> wrote:
> Well and good, but this is not an abnormal message, and there's no
> reason for it to go to stderr.  stderr is for errors, else it's just
> unbuffered stdout, which isn't terribly helpful.

Actually lots of programs use stderr for more than just "abnormal"
output.  It is common practice in programs that generate a lot of
output to send the "verbose" messages to stdout and the status
messages to stderr.

But also, you might be interested in this:

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-511285.html

I actually like this idea so much, I may try my hand at hacking
portage this weekend to make a proof-of-concept!

-Richard
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: pet peeve: sending normal output to stderr (env-update)

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 397 bytes --]

On Thursday 16 November 2006 21:56, Richard Fish wrote:
> But also, you might be interested in this:
>
> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-511285.html
>
> I actually like this idea so much, I may try my hand at hacking
> portage this weekend to make a proof-of-concept!

You may want to have a look at bug #147516.

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147516

-- 
Bo Andresen

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]