Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Eric Bohn]

The use of package.keywords is recommended because it allows you to apply the condition to specific packages.  If you really want to use the arch testing packages system wide, then I believe the way to do this is to insert the line:

ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86"

into your /etc/make.conf file.  All subsequent emerges will then make use of the test package versions for the specified arch.  However, this is not recommended as it tends to produce an unstable system.

----- Original Message ----
From: BoØrsted Andresen <bo.andresen@zlin.dk>
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 6:09:37 AM
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?


On Wednesday 18 October 2006 23:35, Darren Kirby wrote:
> Again, ensure that you have the line:
>
> media-sound/dir2ogg ~x86
>
> in "/etc/portage/package.keywords"
>
> Note that this assumes you are running "x86" ARCH. If you are using a
> different arch then do the same thing but change the arch to what you are
> using: ie: "~sparc", "~ppc", or "~amd64".

Actually it doesn't assume anything. It simply means that you accept any 
package that includes the ~x86 keyword..

-- 
Bo Andresen



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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:35:59 -0700 (PDT), Eric Bohn wrote:

> ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86"
> 
> into your /etc/make.conf file.  All subsequent emerges will then make
> use of the test package versions for the specified arch.  However, this
> is not recommended as it tends to produce an unstable system.

Unstable as in continually changing, not unstable as in prone to crashing.

Provided you are prepared to make the extra effort, such an unstable
system can be worthwhile. On the other hand, if you are running a
production system, stability of package versions is generally A Good
Thing.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Electricians DO IT until it Hz...

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[gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[maxim wexler]

Hello group,

I recently sync'ed portage, but when I did #emerge
digg2ogg it installed version 0.8 which is way out of
date. 

I thought sync was supposed to "prime" portage to get
the latest versions of software when needed.

Here's the sync line in make.conf.

SYNC="rsync://rsync.namerica.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"

Perhaps I should be adding more? Replace with
something else?

-Maxim

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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[maxim wexler]

>digg2ogg

should be dir2ogg


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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Brett I. Holcomb]

On Tuesday October 17 2006 23:37, maxim wexler wrote:
> Hello group,
>
> I recently sync'ed portage, but when I did #emerge
> digg2ogg it installed version 0.8 which is way out of
> date.
>
> I thought sync was supposed to "prime" portage to get
> the latest versions of software when needed.
>
> Here's the sync line in make.conf.
>
> SYNC="rsync://rsync.namerica.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
>
> Perhaps I should be adding more? Replace with
> something else?
>
> -Maxim
>
> __________________________________________________
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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Brett I. Holcomb]

Are newer versions masked for some reason?  When a sync is done it gets all 
the mirror has.


On Tuesday October 17 2006 23:37, maxim wexler wrote:
> Hello group,
>
> I recently sync'ed portage, but when I did #emerge
> digg2ogg it installed version 0.8 which is way out of
> date.
>
> I thought sync was supposed to "prime" portage to get
> the latest versions of software when needed.
>
> Here's the sync line in make.conf.
>
> SYNC="rsync://rsync.namerica.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
>
> Perhaps I should be adding more? Replace with
> something else?
>
> -Maxim
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Drew]

> I thought sync was supposed to "prime" portage to get
> the latest versions of software when needed.

All sync does is download the latest ebuilds into your local portage
tree. If the ebuild maintainers haven't gotten around to creating an
ebuild for package 'foo-1.2.0' (the lastest) and are still using
'foo-0.8' then you're stuck with 'foo-0.8' unless you roll your own
ebuild for 'foo-1.2.0'.

Of course you're also welcome to submit the custom ebuild into
bugzilla to get it included in portage for everyone else to benefit
from.


-Andrew Kay
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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Darren Kirby]

Quoth the maxim wexler
> Hello group,
>
> I recently sync'ed portage, but when I did #emerge
> digg2ogg it installed version 0.8 which is way out of
> date.
>
> I thought sync was supposed to "prime" portage to get
> the latest versions of software when needed.
>
> Here's the sync line in make.conf.
>
> SYNC="rsync://rsync.namerica.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
>
> Perhaps I should be adding more? Replace with
> something else?
>
> -Maxim

Hi Max,

I put in a bug request for a version bump and to make a newer version stable, 
but it has not been done yet. What you can do for now is:

# echo "media-sound/dir2ogg ~x86" >> /etc/portage/package.keywords

and that will install dir2ogg-0.9.1.

Note: that is _still_ a couple versions behind the upstream stable version 
which is 0.9.3. If you need the newer features you may just want to grab the 
package from http://badcomputer.org/unix/dir2ogg and install manually. If you 
want to keep it in portage, you can set up an overlay (read portage guide for 
instructions on this) and simply copy the 0.9.1 ebuild to the overlay, change 
the name to 'dir2ogg-0.9.3.ebuild', digest it, and install as usual...

-d
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[maxim wexler]

> # echo "media-sound/dir2ogg ~x86" >>
> /etc/portage/package.keywords
> 
> and that will install dir2ogg-0.9.1.

Not yet. There's gotta be more to it than that.

I ran the above command then did #emerge -C dir2ogg
then #emerge -pv dir2ogg:

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild  N    ] media-sound/dir2ogg-0.8  0 kB


>From man make.conf there is this, the only mention of
/etc/portage:

suidctl
    Before merging packages to the live filesystem,
automatically strip setuid bits from any file that is
not listed in /etc/portage/suidctl.conf.

So, if portage is supposed to read package.keywords I
don't know where the link would be made.

-Maxim


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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Darren Kirby]

Quoth the maxim wexler
> > # echo "media-sound/dir2ogg ~x86" >>
> > /etc/portage/package.keywords
> >
> > and that will install dir2ogg-0.9.1.
>
> Not yet. There's gotta be more to it than that.
>
> I ran the above command then did #emerge -C dir2ogg
> then #emerge -pv dir2ogg:
>
> These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
>
> Calculating dependencies... done!
> [ebuild  N    ] media-sound/dir2ogg-0.8  0 kB
>
> >From man make.conf there is this, the only mention of
>
> /etc/portage:
>
> suidctl
>     Before merging packages to the live filesystem,
> automatically strip setuid bits from any file that is
> not listed in /etc/portage/suidctl.conf.
>
> So, if portage is supposed to read package.keywords I
> don't know where the link would be made.

It is built into 'emerge' AFAIK...

You have made a typo or some other mistake. It is documented in the portage 
guide: 
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=3&chap=3#doc_chap2

Again, ensure that you have the line:

media-sound/dir2ogg ~x86

in "/etc/portage/package.keywords"

Note that this assumes you are running "x86" ARCH. If you are using a 
different arch then do the same thing but change the arch to what you are 
using: ie: "~sparc", "~ppc", or "~amd64".

-d
-- 
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"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972
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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[maxim wexler]

> You have made a typo or some other mistake. It is
> documented in the portage 
> guide: 

Oops, I left off the 'x' in '~x86'

So that's sorted now. Thanks Darren.

-Maxim

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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Wednesday 18 October 2006 23:35, Darren Kirby wrote:
> Again, ensure that you have the line:
>
> media-sound/dir2ogg ~x86
>
> in "/etc/portage/package.keywords"
>
> Note that this assumes you are running "x86" ARCH. If you are using a
> different arch then do the same thing but change the arch to what you are
> using: ie: "~sparc", "~ppc", or "~amd64".

Actually it doesn't assume anything. It simply means that you accept any 
package that includes the ~x86 keyword..

-- 
Bo Andresen

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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Darren Kirby]

Quoth the Bo Ørsted Andresen
> On Wednesday 18 October 2006 23:35, Darren Kirby wrote:
> > Again, ensure that you have the line:
> >
> > media-sound/dir2ogg ~x86
> >
> > in "/etc/portage/package.keywords"
> >
> > Note that this assumes you are running "x86" ARCH. If you are using a
> > different arch then do the same thing but change the arch to what you are
> > using: ie: "~sparc", "~ppc", or "~amd64".
>
> Actually it doesn't assume anything. It simply means that you accept any
> package that includes the ~x86 keyword..

Sheesh. Sorry for the passive tense.

In what I wrote above: "media-sound/dir2ogg ~x86", as it pertains to the task 
Max needs to do to get a newer version, I am assuming Max is running an x86 
ARCH...

If you really want to be pedantic it doesn't mean "that you accept any package 
that includes the ~x86 keyword", it means you accept the ~x86 keyworded 
version of dir2ogg...

-d
-- 
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"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972

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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Daniel Barkalow]

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On Thu, 19 Oct 2006, Darren Kirby wrote:

> Quoth the Bo Ørsted Andresen
> > On Wednesday 18 October 2006 23:35, Darren Kirby wrote:
> >
> > Actually it doesn't assume anything. It simply means that you accept any
> > package that includes the ~x86 keyword..
> 
> Sheesh. Sorry for the passive tense.
> 
> In what I wrote above: "media-sound/dir2ogg ~x86", as it pertains to the task 
> Max needs to do to get a newer version, I am assuming Max is running an x86 
> ARCH...

I think he was trying to point out that ~x86 will give you a newer version 
of dir2ogg even if you're running PPC or something else. It's not a good 
idea, because it could give you a known-broken-on-PPC version that's in 
testing for x86 (if there were such a version) or not give you a testing 
version for PPC known to be broken on x86, but portage doesn't 
fundamentally care whether your keywords actually make any sense together.

	-Daniel
*This .sig left intentionally blank*

Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Daniel Barkalow]

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006, maxim wexler wrote:

> I ran the above command then did #emerge -C dir2ogg
> then #emerge -pv dir2ogg:
> 
> These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
> 
> Calculating dependencies... done!
> [ebuild  N    ] media-sound/dir2ogg-0.8  0 kB

If you try "emerge -pv '>dir2ogg-0.8'", it will tell you why it isn't 
going to install each of the later versions.

> From man make.conf there is this, the only mention of
> /etc/portage:

You want the portage man page; make.conf only documents those things 
actually in make.conf, not the various other config files. Also, the emrge 
man page will tell you relevant things.

	-Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:02:02 -0700 (PDT), maxim wexler wrote:

> From man make.conf there is this, the only mention of
> /etc/portage:

man portage


-- 
Neil Bothwick

If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it
considered a hostage situation?

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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[b.n.]

maxim wexler ha scritto:
>> # echo "media-sound/dir2ogg ~x86" >>
>> /etc/portage/package.keywords
>>
>> and that will install dir2ogg-0.9.1.
> 
> Not yet. There's gotta be more to it than that.
 >
> I ran the above command then did #emerge -C dir2ogg
> then #emerge -pv dir2ogg:
> 
> These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
> 
> Calculating dependencies... done!
> [ebuild  N    ] media-sound/dir2ogg-0.8  0 kB

You probably didn't execute the previous command correctly. If I run 
"eix dir2ogg" that's the output:

* media-sound/dir2ogg
      Available versions:  0.8 ~0.9.1 ~0.9.2
      Installed:           none
      Homepage:            http://badcomputer.org/linux/dir2ogg/
      Description:         Converts MP3, M4A, and WAV files to OGG format.

This means that 0.9.1 and 0.9.2 are masked by ~.
The only really correct way to emerge these packages is to add them to 
package.keywords, as explained in the handbook.

 > So, if portage is supposed to read package.keywords I
 > don't know where the link would be made.

About /etc/portage/package.keywords:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=3&chap=3#doc_chap2

Go here and have a (small) read.
You'll find that probably you're doing something wrong on your side.

m.

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Re: [gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:37:04 -0700 (PDT), maxim wexler wrote:

> I thought sync was supposed to "prime" portage to get
> the latest versions of software when needed.

The latest versions AVAILABLE. As has been said so many times, search
bugzilla first - http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147360


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[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Re: how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Alexander Skwar]

Darren Kirby <bulliver@badcomputer.org>:

> Quoth the Alexander Skwar
> 
>> Darren, on the other hand, seems to have
>> some misunderstanding about how portage works.
> 
> Stop being so bloody obtuse and read my response to Willie. I know perfectly 
> well how portage works. I am taking issues with your vague responses which 
> are open to several interpretations.

No, they are not. I said, that it is unreasonable to expect, that
emerge should offer a version other than 0.8 of dir2ogg, as that's
the latest stable. Or rather, I asked maxim why he thinks, that
a version, other than the latest stable (ie. 0.8), should be
offered.

> You would be well served by writing a clear and concise response

I did. If you try to interprete it somehow and you get it wrong,
than I'm terribly sorry for that, but that's just not my problem.

> rather than  
> another open-ended question if you want to get your point accross.

My point is, that emerge offers, by default, to install the latest
stable version. I wanted to make maxim think about why he expects
a different version.

>> Just because there's
>> a newer version of some program out there in the wild, doesn't mean,
>> that it'll be available to emerge/portage through some sort of magic.
> 
> That's certainly not what I think,

I didn't say so, did I?


Alexander Skwar
-- 
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      microsoft's backorifice
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Re: how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Devon Miller]

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You both seem to be arguing about what constitutes stable. And there are 2
different definitions: stable as defined by the upstream source and stable
as defined in portage.

In this case, the "upstream stable" is 0.9.3 and the "portage stable" os 0.8
.

Not appreciating the distinction, Maxim was asking why he's not getting the
latest stable (expecting the "upstream stable").

Alexander's comments reflect the "portage stable", but don't take in to
account that portage does not always keep up. In fact, in this case it's
languished rather badly.

0.9.1 was added to bugzilla (http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87626)
in Apr-05
It looks like it was added to portage in Nov-05
It's been in portage for 11 months, with no bugs filed against it, and it's
still ~x86.

0.9.2 was added to bugzilla (http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=) in
Dec-05
It l was added to portage in Feb-06
It's been in portage for 8 months, with no bugs filed against it, and it's
still ~x86.

Now, Darren has added a bug for 0.9.3 and a month later, it's still waiting
to get added to portage.
His issue is 0.9.1 and 0.9.2 should have been stable by now.

So, while Alexander is technically correct, (emerge is doing exactly what it
should) this not a good thing, because portage is still delivering older,
buggy code. Unfortunately, getting ebuilds marked stable requires the
intervention of a Gentoo developer and while the documentation says what
*should* happen, it does not say what to do when something falls through the
cracks.

I would suggest Darren look through the develoiper list (
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/roll-call/userinfo.xml) for developers
handling media-sound. Add them to the cc list on the 0.9.2 ebuild and add a
comment asking that it be marked stable. And ask for the 0.9.3 to be added
as ~x86

dcm

On 10/19/06, Alexander Skwar <listen@alexander.skwar.name> wrote:
>
> Darren Kirby <bulliver@badcomputer.org>:
>
> > Quoth the Alexander Skwar
> >
> >> Darren, on the other hand, seems to have
> >> some misunderstanding about how portage works.
> >
> > Stop being so bloody obtuse and read my response to Willie. I know
> perfectly
> > well how portage works. I am taking issues with your vague responses
> which
> > are open to several interpretations.
>
> No, they are not. I said, that it is unreasonable to expect, that
> emerge should offer a version other than 0.8 of dir2ogg, as that's
> the latest stable. Or rather, I asked maxim why he thinks, that
> a version, other than the latest stable (ie. 0.8), should be
> offered.
>
> > You would be well served by writing a clear and concise response
>
> I did. If you try to interprete it somehow and you get it wrong,
> than I'm terribly sorry for that, but that's just not my problem.
>
> > rather than
> > another open-ended question if you want to get your point accross.
>
> My point is, that emerge offers, by default, to install the latest
> stable version. I wanted to make maxim think about why he expects
> a different version.
>
> >> Just because there's
> >> a newer version of some program out there in the wild, doesn't mean,
> >> that it'll be available to emerge/portage through some sort of magic.
> >
> > That's certainly not what I think,
>
> I didn't say so, did I?
>
>
> Alexander Skwar
> --
> <rcw> those apparently-bacteria-like multicolor worms coming out of
>       microsoft's backorifice
> <rcw> that's the backoffice logo
>
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

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[gentoo-user] how thorough is #emerge --sync?

[Darren Kirby]

Quoth the Devon Miller
> You both seem to be arguing about what constitutes stable. And there are 2
> different definitions: stable as defined by the upstream source and stable
> as defined in portage.

Wrong. I am perfectly aware of what "stable" and "unstable" means to portage. 
I _was_ arguing a point based on Alexander's question which I felt was 
ambiguous. Apparently I am the only one who thought it was ambiguous, ha ha, 
stupid me.

The entire rest of that sub-thread was me and Alexander arguing faulty 
premises based on this initial misunderstanding, and it would best be  
ignored by everyone. 

<snip>

> Now, Darren has added a bug for 0.9.3 and a month later, it's still waiting
> to get added to portage.
> His issue is 0.9.1 and 0.9.2 should have been stable by now.

That is an issue, but not one I am losing sleep over, and not one that I am 
arguing in this thread...

If everyone folowing this thread from the sidelines could just read my first 
response to the OP: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/172487

You can see here I explained to the OP that the newer version was not stable, 
but he could access it using "~x86" keyword. I went on to explain that if he 
wanted the latest upstream version he could use an overlay.

Mark my words: I _do not_ think the upstream stable version should, 
automatically or otherwise, be portage's stable version. I never said any 
such thing in any mail to this thread.

<snip>

> I would suggest Darren look through the develoiper list (
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/roll-call/userinfo.xml) for developers
> handling media-sound. Add them to the cc list on the 0.9.2 ebuild and add a
> comment asking that it be marked stable. And ask for the 0.9.3 to be added
> as ~x86

I will try this. Thank you.

> dcm

-d
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