[gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Daevid Vincent]

Something has changed recently with 'emerge'. Whenever I use the -D option,
which I am pretty much in the habbit of typing 'emerge -Dav' or 'emerge
-Davu world/system', I notice it pulling in more stuff than it should. It
never acted like this before. It's only been within the past few weeks. On
an older Gentoo server (which I don't upgrade nearly as often as my notebook
above) it doesn't exhibit this behaviour.

The difference in portage is: 2.1.2_pre1-r3 and 2.1-r2

# emerge -av sys-apps/baselayout

[ebuild     U ] sys-apps/baselayout-1.12.5-r2 [1.12.5] USE="unicode
-bootstrap -build -static" 0 kB 

# emerge -Dav sys-apps/baselayout

[ebuild     U ] sys-apps/baselayout-1.12.5-r2 [1.12.5] USE="unicode
-bootstrap -build -static" 0 kB 
[ebuild     U ] dev-lang/python-2.4.3-r4 [2.4.3-r1] USE="berkdb gdbm ipv6
ncurses readline ssl -bootstrap -build -doc -nocxx -tk% -ucs2 (-X%*)
(-tcltk%)" 0 kB 
[ebuild     U ] dev-lang/perl-5.8.8-r2 [5.8.8-r1] USE="berkdb gdbm -build
-debug -doc -ithreads -perlsuid" 0 kB 
[ebuild     U ] dev-libs/openssl-0.9.8d [0.9.8c-r2] USE="zlib -bindist
-emacs -sse2 -test" 0 kB 

# emerge -av sys-apps/baselayout

[ebuild     U ] sys-apps/baselayout-1.12.5-r2 [1.12.5] USE="unicode
-bootstrap -build -static" 0 kB 

# emerge -Dav sys-apps/baselayout 

[ebuild     U ] sys-apps/baselayout-1.12.5-r2 [1.12.5] USE="unicode
-bootstrap -build -static" 0 kB 
[ebuild     U ] dev-lang/python-2.4.3-r4 [2.4.3-r1] USE="berkdb gdbm ipv6
ncurses readline ssl -bootstrap -build -doc -nocxx -tk% -ucs2 (-X%*)
(-tcltk%)" 0 kB 
[ebuild     U ] dev-lang/perl-5.8.8-r2 [5.8.8-r1] USE="berkdb gdbm -build
-debug -doc -ithreads -perlsuid" 0 kB 
[ebuild     U ] dev-libs/openssl-0.9.8d [0.9.8c-r2] USE="zlib -bindist
-emacs -sse2 -test" 0 kB 

# emerge -Davu sys-apps/baselayout

[ebuild     U ] sys-apps/baselayout-1.12.5-r2 [1.12.5] USE="unicode
-bootstrap -build -static" 0 kB 
[ebuild     U ] dev-lang/python-2.4.3-r4 [2.4.3-r1] USE="berkdb gdbm ipv6
ncurses readline ssl -bootstrap -build -doc -nocxx -tk% -ucs2 (-X%*)
(-tcltk%)" 0 kB 
[ebuild     U ] dev-lang/perl-5.8.8-r2 [5.8.8-r1] USE="berkdb gdbm -build
-debug -doc -ithreads -perlsuid" 0 kB 
[ebuild     U ] dev-libs/openssl-0.9.8d [0.9.8c-r2] USE="zlib -bindist
-emacs -sse2 -test" 0 kB 

# emerge -avu sys-apps/baselayout 

[ebuild     U ] sys-apps/baselayout-1.12.5-r2 [1.12.5] USE="unicode
-bootstrap -build -static" 0 kB 


ÐÆ5ÏÐ 


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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Thursday 28 September 2006 23:15, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> Something has changed recently with 'emerge'. Whenever I use the -D option,
> which I am pretty much in the habbit of typing 'emerge -Dav' or 'emerge
> -Davu world/system', I notice it pulling in more stuff than it should. It
> never acted like this before. It's only been within the past few weeks. On
> an older Gentoo server (which I don't upgrade nearly as often as my
> notebook above) it doesn't exhibit this behaviour.
>
> The difference in portage is: 2.1.2_pre1-r3 and 2.1-r2
[SNIP]

Portage is developing quite fast at the moment so it is quite possible that 
you have discovered some change in behaviour (either due to a bug or due to 
permanent changes) but I don't see anything wrong in this mail... What makes 
you think it pulls in more stuff than it should? BTW you should upgrade to 
2.1.2_pre1-r4 (or downgrade to latest stable). If I am missing something 
specific feel free to elaborate.

-- 
Bo Andresen

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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Wolfgang Illmeyer]

Am Donnerstag, 28. September 2006 23:15 schrieb Daevid Vincent:
> Something has changed recently with 'emerge'. Whenever I use the -D option,
> which I am pretty much in the habbit of typing 'emerge -Dav' or 'emerge
> -Davu world/system', I notice it pulling in more stuff than it should. It
> never acted like this before. It's only been within the past few weeks. On
> an older Gentoo server (which I don't upgrade nearly as often as my
> notebook above) it doesn't exhibit this behaviour.

This seems to be an unlucky change of the semantics of -D. If I remember 
correctly, -D usually meant "do not downgrade". This option however has long 
been deprecated because it was responsible for lots of troubles and was 
removed recently. man emerge now says:

--deep (-D)
       When used in conjunction with --update, this flag forces  emerge
       to  consider  the entire dependency tree of packages, instead of
       checking only the immediate dependencies of the packages.  As an
       example, this catches updates in libraries that are not directly
       listed in the dependencies of a package.

/Wolfgang
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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Thursday 28 September 2006 17:53, Wolfgang Illmeyer 
<wolfgang.illmeyer@gmx.net> wrote about 'Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D 
pulling in more than it should these days?!':
> If I remember
> correctly, -D usually meant "do not downgrade".

That was -U (--upgrade-only), which is no longer documented.

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh

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RE: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Daevid Vincent]

Yes. 'deep' is exactly what I expect -D to do. My incancation is the same as
it's been for years, its' that -D acts more like a -u now.

DÆVID  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wolfgang Illmeyer [mailto:wolfgang.illmeyer@gmx.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:53 PM
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it 
> should these days?!
> 
> Am Donnerstag, 28. September 2006 23:15 schrieb Daevid Vincent:
> > Something has changed recently with 'emerge'. Whenever I 
> use the -D option,
> > which I am pretty much in the habbit of typing 'emerge 
> -Dav' or 'emerge
> > -Davu world/system', I notice it pulling in more stuff than 
> it should. It
> > never acted like this before. It's only been within the 
> past few weeks. On
> > an older Gentoo server (which I don't upgrade nearly as often as my
> > notebook above) it doesn't exhibit this behaviour.
> 
> This seems to be an unlucky change of the semantics of -D. If 
> I remember 
> correctly, -D usually meant "do not downgrade". This option 
> however has long 
> been deprecated because it was responsible for lots of 
> troubles and was 
> removed recently. man emerge now says:
> 
> --deep (-D)
>        When used in conjunction with --update, this flag 
> forces  emerge
>        to  consider  the entire dependency tree of packages, 
> instead of
>        checking only the immediate dependencies of the 
> packages.  As an
>        example, this catches updates in libraries that are 
> not directly
>        listed in the dependencies of a package.
> 
> /Wolfgang
> -- 
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 


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RE: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Daevid Vincent]

> -----Original Message-----
> Portage is developing quite fast at the moment so it is quite 
> possible that 
> you have discovered some change in behaviour (either due to a 
> bug or due to 
> permanent changes) but I don't see anything wrong in this 
> mail... What makes 
> you think it pulls in more stuff than it should?

I thought it was pretty obvious, but to summarize:

 emerge -av sys-apps/baselayout

Is just that. The baselayout.

But when I do

 emerge -Dav sys-apps/baselayout

It pulls in baselayout, python, perl, openssl (clearly the last two are not
needed or related to baselayout)

Which just so happens to be the exact same thing if I do

 emerge -Davu sys-apps/baselayout

On my older Gentoo server, typing either of the first two work exactly as
expected and only pull in the single package.

So in summary, -D is acting like an implied -u (or something to that
effect).

'baselayout' is only one example. 
Here's another one, but the list goes on and on. 
Openssl should not require Perl in this case.

locutus ~ # emerge -av dev-libs/openssl 

[ebuild     U ] dev-libs/openssl-0.9.8d [0.9.8c-r2] USE="zlib -bindist
-emacs -sse2 -test" 0 kB 

locutus ~ # emerge -Dav dev-libs/openssl                

[ebuild     U ] dev-libs/openssl-0.9.8d [0.9.8c-r2] USE="zlib -bindist
-emacs -sse2 -test" 0 kB 
[ebuild     U ] dev-lang/perl-5.8.8-r2 [5.8.8-r1] USE="berkdb gdbm -build
-debug -doc -ithreads -perlsuid" 0 kB 

locutus ~ # emerge -avu dev-libs/openssl

[ebuild     U ] dev-lang/perl-5.8.8-r2 [5.8.8-r1] USE="berkdb gdbm -build
-debug -doc -ithreads -perlsuid" 0 kB 
[ebuild     U ] dev-libs/openssl-0.9.8d [0.9.8c-r2] USE="zlib -bindist
-emacs -sse2 -test" 0 kB 



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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Friday 29 September 2006 01:32, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> > Portage is developing quite fast at the moment so it is quite
> > possible that you have discovered some change in behaviour (either due to
> > a bug or due to permanent changes) but I don't see anything wrong in this
> > mail... What makes you think it pulls in more stuff than it should?
>
> I thought it was pretty obvious, but to summarize:
>
>  emerge -av sys-apps/baselayout
>
> Is just that. The baselayout.
>
> But when I do
>
>  emerge -Dav sys-apps/baselayout
>
> It pulls in baselayout, python, perl, openssl (clearly the last two are not
> needed or related to baselayout)

Sorry, that's not clear at all. If you add --tree you will see that they are 
in fact deep dependencies of baselayout (at least given your choice of use 
flags).

[SNIP]
> On my older Gentoo server, typing either of the first two work exactly as
> expected and only pull in the single package.

So you want `emerge -av` to be the same as `emerge -Dav`? I guess I just don't 
see the point...

> So in summary, -D is acting like an implied -u (or something to that
> effect).

Yes, and the man page states what it does in conjunction with -u. It says 
nothing about what it should do without -u. So what should it do and why?

[SNIP]

I do think you are correct in that there has been a change of behaviour, 
however, I think it's intended and unless you can convince the devs to change 
this, I think this falls in the category of permanent changes.

-- 
Bo Andresen

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[gentoo-user] Re: emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Harm Geerts]

On Friday 29 September 2006 01:20, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> Yes. 'deep' is exactly what I expect -D to do. My incancation is the same
> as it's been for years, its' that -D acts more like a -u now.

--deep and -D are the same thing
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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Richard Fish]

On 9/28/06, Daevid Vincent <daevid@daevid.com> wrote:
> But when I do
>
>  emerge -Dav sys-apps/baselayout
>
> It pulls in baselayout, python, perl, openssl (clearly the last two are not
> needed or related to baselayout)

Not true at all.

With the right USE flags, baselayout depends on coreutils, which
depends on autoconf, which depends on perl.

baselayout also depends on portage, which depends on python, which
with USE=ssl depends on openssl.

> On my older Gentoo server, typing either of the first two work exactly as
> expected and only pull in the single package.

Maybe the other server has already has the up-to-date dependancies, or
hasn't been sync'd recently?  What happens if you run "emerge -vp
python" on the other server?  Is it also a ~x86 system?  It might help
to see the emerge --info output of both systems.

> 'baselayout' is only one example.
> Here's another one, but the list goes on and on.
> Openssl should not require Perl in this case.

Why not??  The ebuild has this for DEPEND:

DEPEND="${RDEPEND}
        sys-apps/diffutils
        >=dev-lang/perl-5
        test? ( sys-devel/bc )"

Anyway, from looking at the portage ChangeLog and searching bugzie
[1], it looks like there are some changes to the handling of --deep in
an attempt to resolve some circular dependancy and upgrade/downgrade
loop issues.

-Richard

 [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147766
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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Alan]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:15:04PM -0700, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> Something has changed recently with 'emerge'. Whenever I use the -D option,
> which I am pretty much in the habbit of typing 'emerge -Dav' or 'emerge
> -Davu world/system', I notice it pulling in more stuff than it should. It
> never acted like this before. It's only been within the past few weeks. On
> an older Gentoo server (which I don't upgrade nearly as often as my notebook
> above) it doesn't exhibit this behaviour.

What I belive you're seeing is that there have been new flags added or
removed from ebuilds and therefor there is need to rebuild a lot of
packages to make everything fall in line.  For myself recently I saw a
lot of perl packages rebuilt because the 'minimal' USE flag was set as
'-' by default instead of not at all (or something like that).

alan

-- 
Alan <alan@ufies.org> - http://arcterex.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Backups are for people who don't pray."                 -- big Mike
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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Friday 29 September 2006 01:04, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> On Thursday 28 September 2006 17:53, Wolfgang Illmeyer
> <wolfgang.illmeyer@gmx.net> wrote about 'Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D
>
> pulling in more than it should these days?!':
> > If I remember
> > correctly, -D usually meant "do not downgrade".
>
> That was -U (--upgrade-only), which is no longer documented.

Actually, -U (--upgradeonly) was removed completely. Not just from the 
documentation (and for a good reason)...

-- 
Bo Andresen

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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Graham Murray]

Alan <alan@ufies.org> writes:

> What I belive you're seeing is that there have been new flags added or
> removed from ebuilds and therefor there is need to rebuild a lot of
> packages to make everything fall in line.  For myself recently I saw a
> lot of perl packages rebuilt because the 'minimal' USE flag was set as
> '-' by default instead of not at all (or something like that).

But that is covered by the -N (--newuse) flag, not the -D flag. I must
admit that the only time I use -D is with the 'world' target not
individual packages.
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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Walter Dnes]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:15:04PM -0700, Daevid Vincent wrote
> Something has changed recently with 'emerge'. Whenever I use the -D option,
> which I am pretty much in the habbit of typing 'emerge -Dav' or 'emerge
> -Davu world/system', I notice it pulling in more stuff than it should. It
> never acted like this before. It's only been within the past few weeks. On
> an older Gentoo server (which I don't upgrade nearly as often as my notebook
> above) it doesn't exhibit this behaviour.

  I've got ELOG enabled, so let's cd to that directory...
cd /var/log/portage/elog/

  Now let's see what messages we have from portage...
$ ls -1 | grep sys-apps:portage
sys-apps:portage-2.1.1:20060916-110813.log

  OK, file "sys-apps:portage-2.1.1:20060916-110813.log" looks
interesting; wonder what it says...

==========================================================================
$ cat sys-apps:portage-2.1.1:20060916-110813.log
LOG: postinst
See NEWS and RELEASE-NOTES for further changes.

For help with using portage please consult the Gentoo Handbook
at http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=3


WARN: postinst
In portage-2.1.1, emerge --newuse is now sensitive to changes in IUSE.
Immediately after upgrade from 2.1, users may notice a significantly larger
number of packages pulled in by --newuse, but that behavior is normal.
For additional information regarding this change, please see bugs #116955,
#144333, #144661, and #146060.
==========================================================================

  That pretty well sums it up.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> In linux /sbin/init is Job #1
My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca
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RE: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Daevid Vincent]

...and that has what to do with "emerge -Davu"?

--newuse shortcut is -N

       --newuse (-N short option)
              Tells emerge to include installed packages where USE flags
have 
              changed since installation.

-D is deep.
-a is ask.
-v is verbose.
-u is 

       --update (-u short option)
              Updates packages to the best version available, which may not
              always be the highest version number due to masking for
testing
              and development. This will also update direct dependencies
which
              may not what you want. In general use this option only in
combi-
              nation with the world or system target. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Walter Dnes [mailto:waltdnes@waltdnes.org] 
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:21 PM
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it 
> should these days?!
> 
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:15:04PM -0700, Daevid Vincent wrote
> > Something has changed recently with 'emerge'. Whenever I 
> use the -D option,
> > which I am pretty much in the habbit of typing 'emerge 
> -Dav' or 'emerge
> > -Davu world/system', I notice it pulling in more stuff than 
> it should. It
> > never acted like this before. It's only been within the 
> past few weeks. On
> > an older Gentoo server (which I don't upgrade nearly as 
> often as my notebook
> > above) it doesn't exhibit this behaviour.
> 
>   I've got ELOG enabled, so let's cd to that directory...
> cd /var/log/portage/elog/
> 
>   Now let's see what messages we have from portage...
> $ ls -1 | grep sys-apps:portage
> sys-apps:portage-2.1.1:20060916-110813.log
> 
>   OK, file "sys-apps:portage-2.1.1:20060916-110813.log" looks
> interesting; wonder what it says...
> 
> ==============================================================
> ============
> $ cat sys-apps:portage-2.1.1:20060916-110813.log
> LOG: postinst
> See NEWS and RELEASE-NOTES for further changes.
> 
> For help with using portage please consult the Gentoo Handbook
> at http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=3
> 
> 
> WARN: postinst
> In portage-2.1.1, emerge --newuse is now sensitive to changes in IUSE.
> Immediately after upgrade from 2.1, users may notice a 
> significantly larger
> number of packages pulled in by --newuse, but that behavior is normal.
> For additional information regarding this change, please see 
> bugs #116955,
> #144333, #144661, and #146060.
> ==============================================================
> ============
> 
>   That pretty well sums it up.
> 
> -- 
> Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> In linux /sbin/init is Job #1
> My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca
> -- 
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 

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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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Reordering for readability. Please don't toppost...

On Monday 02 October 2006 05:14, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> > From: Walter Dnes:
[SNIP]
> > WARN: postinst
> > In portage-2.1.1, emerge --newuse is now sensitive to changes in IUSE.
[SNIP]

> ...and that has what to do with "emerge -Davu"?
[SNIP]

Obviously nothing. Walter Dnes is pointing at the changes that occurred 
between portage-2.1-r1 and 2.1.1 (which aren't what you're complaining about) 
yet still noticeable changes.

Anyway, the portage-2.1.2 tracker bug [1] shows you the differences between 
portage-2.1.1 and the latest 2.1.2 prerelease. Also a comment from zmedico 
(the portage dev who is providing us with all of these new features and 
fixes) [2] clearly shows that the change is intended.

I believe that should answer your questions. You, however, haven't answered 
mine. What did you think it should do with --deep without --update?

[1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=147007
[2] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=149527#c4

-- 
Bo Andresen

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RE: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Daevid Vincent]

> Anyway, the portage-2.1.2 tracker bug [1] shows you the 
> differences between 
> portage-2.1.1 and the latest 2.1.2 prerelease. Also a comment 
> from zmedico 
> (the portage dev who is providing us with all of these new 
> features and 
> fixes) [2] clearly shows that the change is intended.

Well, if it's intended, then that's all I need to know... :)

> I believe that should answer your questions. You, however, 
> haven't answered 
> mine. What did you think it should do with --deep without --update?

I'm no expert by any stretch, I just noticed that it was acting different
and as illustrated, I could prove it. Perhaps I misunderstood what --deep
was for. I guess I thought it was the package and any dependencies that
NEEDED upgrade for the package to work. Now it feels like it just pulls in
the other dependencies just because that's what they are. Again, I could be
wrong. I just noticed more stuff being shown than usual, that's all.

DÆVID  


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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -D pulling in more than it should these days?!

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:20:52 -0700, Daevid Vincent wrote:

> I'm no expert by any stretch, I just noticed that it was acting
> different and as illustrated, I could prove it. Perhaps I misunderstood
> what --deep was for. I guess I thought it was the package and any
> dependencies that NEEDED upgrade for the package to work.

It updates any packages for which an upgraded is available. If the upgrade
is needed, portage will do it without --deep.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The man who dies with the most toys is dead.

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