[gentoo-user] Creating a LFS system with Portage

[gentoo-user] Creating a LFS system with Portage

[Alon Keren]

Hi,

I'm considering using Portage to build a Linux From Scratch system
(LFS basically means building a completely customized Linux machine,
using a toolchain).
The little documentation online regarding such a feat, along with my
little experience with Portage, means that I would have to go
knee-deep (in creating ebuilds) before even knowing if it is feasible,
so I thought I'd ask here for some insight.

I noticed that the Catalyst project deals with toolchain building, but
it is Gentoo-centric, and with virtually no documentation.
I also noticed that Portage allows defining the ROOT environment
variable (in '/etc/make.conf') in order "to  specify  the  target
root  filesystem to be used for merging packages or ebuilds". I wonder
if emerging this way is enough to build a runnable OS, or if there are
special prerequisites the host system (aside from running emerge) or
destination file-system must meet.

Thanks in advance,
  Alon

PS.

Please CC me your replies as I'm not subscribed to messages from this list
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating a LFS system with Portage

[Hans-Werner Hilse]

Hi,

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 15:05:21 +0000
"Alon Keren" <alon.keren@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm considering using Portage to build a Linux From Scratch system
> (LFS basically means building a completely customized Linux machine,
> using a toolchain).

Hm, that's what portage does, anyway... So what exactly do you mean by
saying you want to use portage to build LFS? Do you want to integrate
all the scripts and stuff from the LFS guide into a gentoo system?

-hwh
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating a LFS system with Portage

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 18 September 2006 17:05, Alon Keren wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm considering using Portage to build a Linux From Scratch
> system (LFS basically means building a completely customized
> Linux machine, using a toolchain).

I'm not sure why you want to do this or what your line of 
reasoning is. A stage 1 gentoo install is very similar to 
building LFS, except that you don't have to type './configure 
&& make && sudo make install' 300 times. Well, conceptually 
similar at least.

The whole point of LFS is to do it by hand and see how it all 
works at an even lower level than gentoo provides. You could 
use portage to automate the LFS build process, but then you end 
up with essentially a clone of gentoo. I say this as someone 
who has built an LFS as a learning exercise then moved on to 
gentoo for pragmatic reasons.

Perhaps if you explained why you want to try this and especially 
what you want to accomplish, then we can advise you better.

<snip>

> Please CC me your replies as I'm not subscribed to messages
> from this list

Nope. Asking that is exceptionally rude. I wade through 200+ 
messages per day looking for places I can assist others. The 
least you can do is subscribe to the list like everyone else 
(and how did you manage to post without a subscription?), and 
download the same looking for replies to your question. 
Besides, the answers you get might help someone else.

alan
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating a LFS system with Portage

[Peter Wu]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:50:08 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> On Monday 18 September 2006 17:05, Alon Keren wrote:
>
>> Please CC me your replies as I'm not subscribed to messages
>> from this list
>
> Nope. Asking that is exceptionally rude. I wade through 200+ 
> messages per day looking for places I can assist others. The 
> least you can do is subscribe to the list like everyone else 
> (and how did you manage to post without a subscription?), and 
> download the same looking for replies to your question. 
> Besides, the answers you get might help someone else.

I guess Alon subscribed to the gentoo-user list as a "nomail"
subscriber and read the messages via some news-mail gateway, such as
GMane. 

According to http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml, one can subscribe
to the "nomail" option of each list:

listname+subscribe-nomail@gentoo.org
listname+unsubscribe-nomail@gentoo.org 

-- 
Peter Wu
Powered by GNU/Linux 2.6.17
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating a LFS system with Portage

[Alon Keren]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> I'm not sure why you want to do this or what your line of
> reasoning is. A stage 1 gentoo install is very similar to
> building LFS, except that you don't have to type './configure
> && make && sudo make install' 300 times. Well, conceptually
> similar at least.
>
> The whole point of LFS is to do it by hand and see how it all
> works at an even lower level than gentoo provides. You could
> use portage to automate the LFS build process, but then you end
> up with essentially a clone of gentoo. I say this as someone
> who has built an LFS as a learning exercise then moved on to
> gentoo for pragmatic reasons.
>
> Perhaps if you explained why you want to try this and especially
> what you want to accomplish, then we can advise you better.
>

My aim is to have the ability to regularly build and maintain
completely customized Linux systems. I simply don't want to be
dependent - at any stage - on the whims or habits of a distribution.
While LFS allows me to build a completely customized Linux system, it
takes, as you say, a lot of time and effort to build a single one.
Also, it offers nothing in the sense of package-management.
So, what I'm looking for is something to automate the LFS
build-process and to do it under some system of package-management.
Portage seemls likely to meet those needs.

>From what I read about stage1 and stage2, they both come as is, which
is somewhat problematic for my needs (for examle, if I want to use one
version of gcc instead of another). Even if stage1 is used 'out of the
box', some mechanism should be in place in order to build a new system
on a chroot environment, no?

The ROOT variable is probably a major part of the solution, but is it
enough? I've also found '/usr/portage/scripts/bootstrap.sh', which
seems suspiciously relevant, but comes with little external
documentation.

>
> > Please CC me your replies as I'm not subscribed to messages
> > from this list
>
> Nope. Asking that is exceptionally rude. I wade through 200+
> messages per day looking for places I can assist others. The
> least you can do is subscribe to the list like everyone else
> (and how did you manage to post without a subscription?), and
> download the same looking for replies to your question.
> Besides, the answers you get might help someone else.

I'm sorry that you find my request rude. I would rather not go through
200 messages every day if I could help it, and I personally don't find
it too troublesome to add an address to the CC line. Replying to the
list and having me as CC will obviously not prevent others to take
place in the discussion or read it later on as reference.
At any case, I would look in online archives to search for any
messages which haven't reached me.

Alon


PS.

Please CC me your replies as I'm not subscribed to messages from this list
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating a LFS system with Portage

[Daniel da Veiga]

On 9/19/06, Alon Keren <alon.keren@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > I'm not sure why you want to do this or what your line of
> > reasoning is. A stage 1 gentoo install is very similar to
> > building LFS, except that you don't have to type './configure
> > && make && sudo make install' 300 times. Well, conceptually
> > similar at least.
> >
> > The whole point of LFS is to do it by hand and see how it all
> > works at an even lower level than gentoo provides. You could
> > use portage to automate the LFS build process, but then you end
> > up with essentially a clone of gentoo. I say this as someone
> > who has built an LFS as a learning exercise then moved on to
> > gentoo for pragmatic reasons.
> >
> > Perhaps if you explained why you want to try this and especially
> > what you want to accomplish, then we can advise you better.
> >
>
> My aim is to have the ability to regularly build and maintain
> completely customized Linux systems. I simply don't want to be
> dependent - at any stage - on the whims or habits of a distribution.
> While LFS allows me to build a completely customized Linux system, it
> takes, as you say, a lot of time and effort to build a single one.
> Also, it offers nothing in the sense of package-management.
> So, what I'm looking for is something to automate the LFS
> build-process and to do it under some system of package-management.
> Portage seemls likely to meet those needs.

;) You described Gentoo! So I would suggest: "Install Gentoo". Try it,
you'll find that the "whims or habits of a distribution" in Gentoo
means flexibility and choices, and that appears what you're looking
for...

>
> From what I read about stage1 and stage2, they both come as is, which
> is somewhat problematic for my needs (for examle, if I want to use one
> version of gcc instead of another). Even if stage1 is used 'out of the
> box', some mechanism should be in place in order to build a new system
> on a chroot environment, no?

With stage1, you build your system "from scratch" including bootstrap,
in fact, having a stage3 rebuild will have the same effect, only that
you'll have a running system while you compile... Stage1 provides a
basic system, from what you'll start your own system.

>
> The ROOT variable is probably a major part of the solution, but is it
> enough? I've also found '/usr/portage/scripts/bootstrap.sh', which
> seems suspiciously relevant, but comes with little external
> documentation.

What you need is simply portage, wich is the very heart of Gentoo, and
you also want some sort of package management, wich is portage. From
what you described, you want Gentoo...

>
> >
> > > Please CC me your replies as I'm not subscribed to messages
> > > from this list
> >
> > Nope. Asking that is exceptionally rude. I wade through 200+
> > messages per day looking for places I can assist others. The
> > least you can do is subscribe to the list like everyone else
> > (and how did you manage to post without a subscription?), and
> > download the same looking for replies to your question.
> > Besides, the answers you get might help someone else.
>
> I'm sorry that you find my request rude. I would rather not go through
> 200 messages every day if I could help it, and I personally don't find
> it too troublesome to add an address to the CC line. Replying to the
> list and having me as CC will obviously not prevent others to take
> place in the discussion or read it later on as reference.
> At any case, I would look in online archives to search for any
> messages which haven't reached me.
>
> Alon
>
>
> PS.
>
> Please CC me your replies as I'm not subscribed to messages from this list
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


-- 
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V-
PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating a LFS system with Portage

[Richard Fish]

On 9/19/06, Alon Keren <alon.keren@gmail.com> wrote:
> My aim is to have the ability to regularly build and maintain
> completely customized Linux systems.

This should be possible by using your own local portage tree (probably
based initially on Gentoo's tree) that you update somewhat manually
with ebuilds and eclasses as you want.  Combined with pre-built binary
packages, and a 'golden' portage configuration and world file, it
should be relatively simple & quick to stage a new system.

If Gentoo's minimal installation CD and a stage1 install doesn't work
for you, you can build your own release media with catalyst (no, it
isn't just for rebuilding the toolchain).

This _is_ going to require a solid understanding of how Gentoo/Portage
works, but not necessarily how to write ebuilds/eclasses.  You need to
understand what we mean by "portage tree", "world file", "use flags",
"profile", "binary packages", etc.  The best way to acquire this
knowledge is to install and use Gentoo, daily, for something
significant (like your desktop!).

> The ROOT variable is probably a major part of the solution, but is it
> enough? I've also found '/usr/portage/scripts/bootstrap.sh', which
> seems suspiciously relevant, but comes with little external
> documentation.

bootstrap.sh _is_ for only rebuilding the toolchain.  Probably not
what you want at all....

The ROOT variable is used to install packages into a different (fex
chroot) directory.  It is usually used for things like
cross-compilation environments where one wants to build binary
packages for another system, although not always.

The normal way of installing a new system in a chroot from a live
system is to use the "Knoppix Installation" instructions [1].

-Richard

[1] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/altinstall.xml#doc_chap3

PS: list replies only please
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating a LFS system with Portage

[Alon Keren]

On 9/19/06, Richard Fish <bigfish@asmallpond.org> wrote:
> On 9/19/06, Alon Keren <alon.keren@gmail.com> wrote:
> > My aim is to have the ability to regularly build and maintain
> > completely customized Linux systems.
>
> This should be possible by using your own local portage tree (probably
> based initially on Gentoo's tree) that you update somewhat manually
> with ebuilds and eclasses as you want.  Combined with pre-built binary
> packages, and a 'golden' portage configuration and world file, it
> should be relatively simple & quick to stage a new system.
>
   ....
>
> This _is_ going to require a solid understanding of how Gentoo/Portage
> works, but not necessarily how to write ebuilds/eclasses.  You need to
> understand what we mean by "portage tree", "world file", "use flags",
> "profile", "binary packages", etc.  The best way to acquire this
> knowledge is to install and use Gentoo, daily, for something
> significant (like your desktop!).
>
Yes, I realize that deep understanding of Portage would obviously be
required, as will writing ebuilds (and copying some of Gentoo's).

> > The ROOT variable is probably a major part of the solution, but is it
> > enough? I've also found '/usr/portage/scripts/bootstrap.sh', which
> > seems suspiciously relevant, but comes with little external
> > documentation.
>
> bootstrap.sh _is_ for only rebuilding the toolchain.  Probably not
> what you want at all....
>
It's actually what I DO want. As I've previously explained, it would
give me the control I need over the system.


> If Gentoo's minimal installation CD and a stage1 install doesn't work
> for you, you can build your own release media with catalyst (no, it
> isn't just for rebuilding the toolchain).
Release media would be good, but I'd like to know how more about how
Catalyst produces the toolchain.

> The ROOT variable is used to install packages into a different (fex
> chroot) directory.  It is usually used for things like
> cross-compilation environments where one wants to build binary
> packages for another system, although not always.
>
Cross-compilation is something I would like to be able to do.

>From what I've gathered so far, it looks llike it should be possible
to build a complete customized toolchain with Portage, even if it'd
require some tweaking; at the center of it being the ROOT env.
variable and 'bootloader.sh'. Still, I wish I could get input from
someone who's actually done such a thing.


Alon


PS.

Please CC me your replies as I'm not subscribed to messages from this list
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list