[gentoo-user] Who does need apache?

[gentoo-user] Who does need apache?

[Andrew Gaydenko]

I have tried to redirect '/etc/make.profile' link from '/usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2005.1'
to '/usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2006.0'. Now 'emerge -pvDu world' shows:

...
Calculating world dependencies... done!
[ebuild  N    ] app-misc/mime-types-5  6 kB
[ebuild  N    ] net-www/gentoo-webroot-default-0.2  USE="-no-htdocs" 0 kB
[ebuild  N    ] net-www/apache-2.0.55-r1  USE="apache2 ssl -debug -doc -ldap -mpm-leader -mpm-peruser -mpm-prefork -mpm-threadpool -mpm-worker -no-suexec -static-modules -threads" 4,684 kB
...

I have not installed 'apache' and don't want to install it. What have I missed?
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Re: [gentoo-user] Who does need apache?

[Ash Varma]

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On Sat, 2006-03-11 at 17:24 +0300, Andrew Gaydenko wrote:

> I have tried to redirect '/etc/make.profile' link from '/usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2005.1'
> to '/usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2006.0'. Now 'emerge -pvDu world' shows:
> 
> ...
> Calculating world dependencies... done!
> [ebuild  N    ] app-misc/mime-types-5  6 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] net-www/gentoo-webroot-default-0.2  USE="-no-htdocs" 0 kB
> [ebuild  N    ] net-www/apache-2.0.55-r1  USE="apache2 ssl -debug -doc -ldap -mpm-leader -mpm-peruser -mpm-prefork -mpm-threadpool -mpm-worker -no-suexec -static-modules -threads" 4,684 kB
> ...
> 
> I have not installed 'apache' and don't want to install it. What have I missed?

try: emerge -pvDut world
will let you know what is requiring apache..

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Re: [gentoo-user] Who does need apache?

[Andrew Gaydenko]

Thanks! It helped. 2006.0 default USE list has 'apache2' flag on, and 'subversion'
package has this USE flag.

======= On Saturday 11 March 2006 17:38, Ash Varma wrote: =======
...
try: emerge -pvDut world
will let you know what is requiring apache..

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[gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Walter Dnes]

On Sat, Mar 11, 2006 at 06:31:14PM +0300, Andrew Gaydenko wrote
> Thanks! It helped. 2006.0 default USE list has 'apache2' flag on,
> and 'subversion' package has this USE flag.

  I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.
There it is in...
/usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2006.0/make.defaults

USE="alsa apache2 apm arts avi cups eds emboss encode esd foomaticdb
gdbm gif gnome gpm gstreamer gtk gtk2 imlib jpeg kde libg++ libwww mad
mikmod motif mp3 mpeg nptl ogg opengl oss pdflib png qt quicktime sdl
spell truetype udev vorbis X xml xmms xv"

  Why in (diety's) name does the the average user need apache2?  Or
emboss (European Molecular Biology Open Software Suite)?  After the
"ipv6" fiasco, I began USE with "-*", like so...

> USE="-* 3dnow X a52 aac alsa bzip2 cdr dga dio divx4linux dri dvd dvdr dvdread encode exif ffmpeg flac fortran gb gif gtk2 imlib jpeg maildir mikmod mime mmap mmx mng mp3 mpeg ncurses nptl nptlonly nsplugin offensive ogg opengl plotutils png posix quicktime readline sdl sharedmem slang sockets sse theora threads tiff truetype vcd vorbis win32codecs wmf xpm xv zlib"

  I feel that my decision was correct.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> In linux /sbin/init is Job #1
My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca
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Re: [gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Ryan Tandy]

Walter Dnes wrote:
>   Why in (diety's) name does the the average user need apache2?  Or
> emboss (European Molecular Biology Open Software Suite)?  After the
> "ipv6" fiasco, I began USE with "-*", like so...
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/143049

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Re: [gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Walter Dnes]

On Sat, Mar 11, 2006 at 04:58:57PM -0800, Ryan Tandy wrote
> Walter Dnes wrote:
> >  Why in (diety's) name does the the average user need apache2?  Or
> >emboss (European Molecular Biology Open Software Suite)?  After the
> >"ipv6" fiasco, I began USE with "-*", like so...
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/143049

  I know; I was in on that thread.  As another participant pointed out,
fetchmail has long delays when compiled with ipv6 support, on an
ipv4-only machine.  Probably it does an ipv6 lookup, waits for the
timeout, then falls back to ipv4.  Since I use fetchmail, that is more
than a hypothetical consideration for me.

  The whole point behind "-*" is to prevent future "surprises".
Yesterday it was emboss and ipv6.  Today it's apache2.  What's next; and
when?  One reason I'm using Gentoo is because I want the maximum control
over my machine that's possible without going to LFS.  Starting USE with
"-*" is part of my strategy for maintaining control.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> In linux /sbin/init is Job #1
My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca
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[gentoo-user] Re: Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[james]

Walter Dnes <waltdnes <at> waltdnes.org> writes:

>   The whole point behind "-*" is to prevent future "surprises".
> Yesterday it was emboss and ipv6.  Today it's apache2.  What's next; and
> when?  One reason I'm using Gentoo is because I want the maximum control
> over my machine that's possible without going to LFS.  Starting USE with
> "-*" is part of my strategy for maintaining control.

Walter,

You are so right, it scary. I fumbled around for a while before discovering
this on my first gentoo firewall. It should be pointed out and emphasised 
during the installation and maintenance docs, in my opinion.


Now, my firewalls work flawlessly, within the parenthetical limitations of
iptables...

James

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[gentoo-user] Re: Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Francesco Talamona]

On Sunday 12 March 2006 01:20, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   Why in (diety's) name does the the average user need apache2?  Or
> emboss (European Molecular Biology Open Software Suite)?  After the
> "ipv6" fiasco, I began USE with "-*", like so...

I think we are seeing a misinterpretation/bug.
Apache2 flag is supposed to make the system able to decide wether to 
install apache1 or apache2, not to pull it in as if it was used to 
choose between "I want apache" and "I don't wont it"

apache2 flag description: "Chooses Apache2 support when a package 
supports both Apache1 and Apache2"

Let me stress the fact that there are 3 apache? flags:
apache
apache1
apache2

Despite actual behaviour (and description) I think that logically it 
should work this way:
* apache: "install apache webserver support when optionally provided"
* apache1: "chooses apache1 version when a package can support apache1 
and apache2; needs apache flag"
* apache2: see above, mutatis mutandis.

Let me know your opinion.

Ciao
	Francesco
-- 
Linux Version 2.6.15-gentoo-r7, Compiled #1 PREEMPT Fri Mar 3 22:56:17 
CET 2006
One 2.2GHz AMD Athlon 64 Processor, 2GB RAM, 4415.87 Bogomips Total
aemaeth
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Re: [gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:20:31 -0500 "Walter Dnes"
<waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:
|   Why in (diety's) name does the the average user need apache2?  Or
| emboss (European Molecular Biology Open Software Suite)?

Uh, USE flags are not packages. You're misunderstanding how USE flags
work. Adding apache2 and emboss to the default USE flags does not mean
that users will get Apache or Emboss.

Having these USE flags in the defaults is entirely sensible and
correct, and provides expected behaviour for the majority of users.
Anyone claiming otherwise simply doesn't understand what's going on.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Sunday 12 March 2006 11:51, Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote 
about 'Re: [gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"':
> On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:20:31 -0500 "Walter Dnes"
>
> <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:
> |   Why in (diety's) name does the the average user need apache2?  Or
> | emboss (European Molecular Biology Open Software Suite)?
>
> Uh, USE flags are not packages. You're misunderstanding how USE flags
> work. Adding apache2 and emboss to the default USE flags does not mean
> that users will get Apache or Emboss.
> 
> Having these USE flags in the defaults is entirely sensible and
> correct, and provides expected behaviour for the majority of users.
> Anyone claiming otherwise simply doesn't understand what's going on.

Amen.

Plus, it's /completely/ trivial to add -* to your USE or (using the great 
euse tool) euse -D <useflag>.  Or, for those type A personalities out 
there, tweak your /etc/portage/package.use.

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh
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Re: [gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Roy Wright]

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

>Plus, it's /completely/ trivial to add -* to your USE or (using the great 
>euse tool) euse -D <useflag>.  Or, for those type A personalities out 
>there, tweak your /etc/portage/package.use.
>
>  
>
Another tool is ufed (use flag editor).  Nicely combines flag name, set 
state, and
brief description.

 From this thread, I realized I hadn't ever reviewed my use flags, just 
added ones
as needed for the past 1.5 years.  So added the -* to start with.  A few 
surprises
like tetek.  Found a half dozen deprecated flags.  Then using ufed I 
discovered
several new flags to try.

This has me wondering if there is a utility to help manage the use 
flags.  I'd like
to know:

* Which use flags I have set that are not used by anything I have installed.
* Which use flags are deprecated.
* Which use flags are new.

Ideally I'd just add this to my daily.cron job.

Thank you,
Roy

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Re: [gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Michael Stewart (vericgar)]

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Roy Wright wrote:
> 
> This has me wondering if there is a utility to help manage the use
> flags.  I'd like
> to know:
> 
> * Which use flags I have set that are not used by anything I have
> installed.
> * Which use flags are deprecated.
> * Which use flags are new.
> 
> Ideally I'd just add this to my daily.cron job.
> 
> Thank you,
> Roy
> 

If you are using a recent portage, you can use the --newuse flag, which
will show which USE flags have changed.

-- 
Michael Stewart                                     vericgar@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                        http://dev.gentoo.org/~vericgar

GnuPG Key ID 0x08614788 available on http://pgp.mit.edu
--


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Re: [gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Roy Wright]

Michael Stewart (vericgar) wrote:

>Roy Wright wrote:
>  
>
>>This has me wondering if there is a utility to help manage the use
>>flags.  I'd like
>>to know:
>>
>>* Which use flags I have set that are not used by anything I have
>>installed.
>>* Which use flags are deprecated.
>>* Which use flags are new.
>>    
>>
>If you are using a recent portage, you can use the --newuse flag, which
>will show which USE flags have changed.
>
>  
>
I'm guessing you are referring to "emerge --newuse".  That just selects 
packages
where a use flag for an ebuild is different from the last time the 
package was built.
I'm more interested in discovering brand new use flags.  Say some 
package, foo,
creates a new use flag, bar, then I'd like to see something like:

  New Use Flags:
    bar (used in:  foo)

It also would be nice to see when particular package changes the set of 
available
use flags between versions.

  Changed USE flag sets in the following packages:
    foo-1.0.0 (a b c)
    foo-1.0.1 (a c d e)

Thank you,
Roy

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Re: [gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Monday 13 March 2006 03:21, Roy Wright <royw@cisco.com> wrote about 'Re: 
[gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"':
> I'm more interested in discovering brand new use flags.  Say some
> package, foo,
> creates a new use flag, bar, then I'd like to see something like:
>
>   New Use Flags:
>     bar (used in:  foo)

Save use.local.desc and use.desc before each sync and diff with the new 
version after.

> It also would be nice to see when particular package changes the set of
> available
> use flags between versions.

The -pv output of emerge shows this.  A flag that was not available in your 
current version but it available in the one you are installing, will be 
colored yellow and postfixed with '%'.

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh
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Re: [gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Roy Wright]

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

>The -pv output of emerge shows this.  A flag that was not available in your 
>current version but it available in the one you are installing, will be 
>colored yellow and postfixed with '%'.
>
>  
>

Great.  So something like the following in my cron.daily/portage.update 
script should do the job:


echo "Save old use.desc"
rm -f /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc.old
cp /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc.old

echo "Save old use.local.desc"
rm -f /usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc.old
cp /usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc 
/usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc.old

echo "Syncing portage tree..."
emerge --sync 2>> /var/log/portage.cron.log > /dev/null
status=$?

if [ $status -ne 0 ]; then
        echo "Portage sync failed, exiting update."
        exit $status
fi

echo "Changed use flags:"
diff /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc.old /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc
diff /usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc.old 
/usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc

echo "Running eupdatedb..."
eupdatedb --quiet --nocolor 2> /dev/null

echo "Running update-eix..."
update-eix --quiet

echo "Checking for updates..."
rm -f /tmp/emerge.output
/usr/local/sbin/einfo --update --deep --newuse world
emerge --update --deep --pretend --verbose --nospinner --newuse world > 
/tmp/emerge.output
emerge --update --deep --fetchonly --quiet --nospinner --newuse world >> 
/tmp/emerge.output
cat /tmp/emerge.output

echo "New USE flags indicated by trailing percent sign in:"
grep -P "\S+%" /tmp/emerge.output


Thank you,
Roy
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Re: [gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Monday 13 March 2006 15:13, Roy Wright <royw@cisco.com> wrote about 'Re: 
[gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"':
> Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> >The -pv output of emerge shows this.  A flag that was not available in
> > your current version but it available in the one you are installing,
> > will be colored yellow and postfixed with '%'.
>
> Great.  So something like the following in my cron.daily/portage.update
> script should do the job:

Looks good, with the following caveat:

> cp /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc.old
> cp /usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc
> /usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc.old
> emerge --sync 2>> /var/log/portage.cron.log > /dev/null

The last line will delete the .old files you just created when it 
syncs /usr/portage/profiles.

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh
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Re: [gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Roy Wright]

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

>The last line will delete the .old files you just created when it 
>syncs /usr/portage/profiles.
>
>  
>
Nice catch!  Thank you.

Changed the directory for the old files to /var/portage/profiles.  That 
should be safe.

echo "Save old use.desc"
mkdir -p /var/portage/profiles
rm -f /var/portage/profiles/use.desc.old
cp /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc /var/portage/profiles/use.desc.old


Thank you,
Roy
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Re: [gentoo-user] Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Rick van Hattem]

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On Monday 13 March 2006 05:53, Roy Wright wrote:
> Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> >Plus, it's /completely/ trivial to add -* to your USE or (using the great
> >euse tool) euse -D <useflag>.  Or, for those type A personalities out
> >there, tweak your /etc/portage/package.use.
>
> Another tool is ufed (use flag editor).  Nicely combines flag name, set
> state, and
> brief description.
>
>  From this thread, I realized I hadn't ever reviewed my use flags, just
> added ones
> as needed for the past 1.5 years.  So added the -* to start with.  A few
> surprises
> like tetek.  Found a half dozen deprecated flags.  Then using ufed I
> discovered
> several new flags to try.
>
> This has me wondering if there is a utility to help manage the use
> flags.  I'd like
> to know:
>
> * Which use flags I have set that are not used by anything I have
> installed. * Which use flags are deprecated.
> * Which use flags are new.
>
> Ideally I'd just add this to my daily.cron job.
>
> Thank you,
> Roy
Instead of ufed I'd recommend profuse, it has the same options as ufed and 
more. Really a great tool, very easy to use and gives you a clear list of 
what use flags you have enabled (I do prefer the ncurses "profuse -n" command 
above gtk)

-- 
Rick van Hattem	Rick.van.Hattem(at)Fawo.nl

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[gentoo-user] Re: Another reason to begin USE with "-*"

[Harry Putnam]

Rick van Hattem <Rick.van.Hattem@fawo.nl> writes:

> Instead of ufed I'd recommend profuse, it has the same options as ufed and 
> more. Really a great tool, very easy to use and gives you a clear list of 
> what use flags you have enabled (I do prefer the ncurses "profuse -n" command 
> above gtk)


Wow, it has a hefty numer of dependancies here.  About 25.

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/DelimMatch-1.06  USE="-minimal" 8 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] perl-core/Scalar-List-Utils-1.18  USE="-minimal" 35 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/XML-XPath-1.13  USE="-minimal" 38 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/libxml-perl-0.08  USE="-minimal" 62 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/XML-Handler-YAWriter-0.23-r1  USE="-minimal" 25 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/XML-NamespaceSupport-1.09  USE="-minimal" 7 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/XML-SAX-0.13  USE="-minimal" 57 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/Text-Iconv-1.4  USE="-minimal" 8 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/XML-Filter-BufferText-1.01  USE="-minimal" 2 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/XML-SAX-Writer-0.44-r1  USE="-minimal" 11 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/XML-Twig-3.22  USE="nls -minimal" 280 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-util/libconf-0.42.10-r1  USE="python -ruby" 198 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/Curses-1.13  USE="-minimal" 78 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/Pod-Escapes-1.04  USE="-minimal" 9 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/Pod-Simple-3.03  USE="-minimal" 247 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/Test-Pod-1.22  USE="-minimal" 6 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/Curses-UI-0.95  USE="-minimal" 138 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/extutils-depends-0.205  USE="-minimal" 8 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/extutils-pkgconfig-1.07  USE="-minimal" 6 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/glib-perl-1.105  USE="-minimal -xml" 222 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/gtk2-perl-1.104  USE="-minimal" 592 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/yaml-0.58  USE="-minimal -test" 87 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/module-build-0.26.11  USE="-minimal" 125 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/gtk2-fu-0.10  USE="-minimal" 20 kB 
[ebuild  N    ] app-portage/profuse-0.25.3  USE="gtk ncurses" 19 kB 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Who does need apache?

[Ryan Tandy]

Andrew Gaydenko wrote:
> [ebuild  N    ] net-www/apache-2.0.55-r1  USE="apache2 ssl -debug -doc -ldap -mpm-leader -mpm-peruser -mpm-prefork -mpm-threadpool -mpm-worker -no-suexec -static-modules -threads" 4,684 kB
> ...
>
> I have not installed 'apache' and don't want to install it. What have I missed?
>   
The "apache2" USE-flag is enabled on your system, causing one or more 
packages to depend on Apache.  Run `emerge -pvuDtn world` to find out 
what package is depending on Apache and echo '<cat-egory/package> 
-apache2' >> /etc/portage/package.use, or simply add -apache2 to your 
USE in make.conf to disable Apache completely on your system.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Who does need apache?

[Thomas Kear]

> The "apache2" USE-flag is enabled on your system, causing one or more
> packages to depend on Apache.  Run `emerge -pvuDtn world` to find out
> what package is depending on Apache and echo '<cat-egory/package>
> -apache2' >> /etc/portage/package.use, or simply add -apache2 to your
> USE in make.conf to disable Apache completely on your system.

My money's on subversion

--
Thomas Kear
thomas.kear@gmail.com
+64211031910
==
Mozilla Firefox: Take back the web
www.mozilla.org/products/firefox

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