[gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Matt Garman]

Before this gets into a flame war, let's just operate under the
assertion that the "best" window manager/desktop environment is
strictly a matter of personal preference.

So, having said that, what window manager do you use, and why?  I
wouldn't trade the multitude of options availabe in Linux for
anything, but the choices can be overwhelming.

I've played with a lot of 'em, starting with fvwm, through window
maker, enlightenment 15 & 16, icewm, gnome, xfce, kde, blackbox...
I've been using Fluxbox for quite a while now.

I want something that is fairly minimal/lightweight, but with a hint
of eye candy and a functional "panel" or taskbar.  Fluxbox just
about has this, but, I can't seem to figure out how to get a
gnome-like panel (unless I ran gnome, which would trump the
lighweight requirement).

I've seen the E17 screenshots, and I'd like to run it, but it's not
a trivial install, plus it's still alpha code (though there's plenty
of anecdotal evidence that it's plenty stable... I'd still rather
wait for an "official" release).

Some interesting links, if you aren't already aware:

http://xwinman.org/ - basic overview of available WMs/DEs
http://www.lynucs.org/ - desktop screenshot archive
http://www.enlightenment.org/ - best of eye candy :)

Anyway, I was just hoping to start a "pub"-style conversation on
what people like/disklike in a window manager.

Thanks,
Matt

-- 
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email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email
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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[John Jolet]

I've pretty much settled on kde.  I like the speed and  
functionality.  I find gnome a little slow (on my hardware) and not  
quite as stable.  I really like xfce, but find certain configuration  
tasks more difficult than in kde.

On Aug 31, 2005, at 5:28 PM, Matt Garman wrote:

>
> Before this gets into a flame war, let's just operate under the
> assertion that the "best" window manager/desktop environment is
> strictly a matter of personal preference.
>
> So, having said that, what window manager do you use, and why?  I
> wouldn't trade the multitude of options availabe in Linux for
> anything, but the choices can be overwhelming.
>
> I've played with a lot of 'em, starting with fvwm, through window
> maker, enlightenment 15 & 16, icewm, gnome, xfce, kde, blackbox...
> I've been using Fluxbox for quite a while now.
>
> I want something that is fairly minimal/lightweight, but with a hint
> of eye candy and a functional "panel" or taskbar.  Fluxbox just
> about has this, but, I can't seem to figure out how to get a
> gnome-like panel (unless I ran gnome, which would trump the
> lighweight requirement).
>
> I've seen the E17 screenshots, and I'd like to run it, but it's not
> a trivial install, plus it's still alpha code (though there's plenty
> of anecdotal evidence that it's plenty stable... I'd still rather
> wait for an "official" release).
>
> Some interesting links, if you aren't already aware:
>
> http://xwinman.org/ - basic overview of available WMs/DEs
> http://www.lynucs.org/ - desktop screenshot archive
> http://www.enlightenment.org/ - best of eye candy :)
>
> Anyway, I was just hoping to start a "pub"-style conversation on
> what people like/disklike in a window manager.
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>
> -- 
> Matt Garman
> email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email
> -- 
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Christoph Eckert]

> Before this gets into a flame war, let's just operate under the
> assertion that the "best" window manager/desktop environment is
> strictly a matter of personal preference.

yes it is. Mine is KDE. It eats hardware but I do not care. It's 
configurable and convenient, and I like the development process.

Many bugs and feature requests I've posted have been fixed or included 
in a very short time. It's stable and consistent, and there are a lot 
of "third party" applications which integrate perfectly.

No flamewar, but most of the above reasons are not valid for Gnome. I 
dislike applications with multi panel windows, and the file open and 
save dialog, a basic GUI element, simply is a pain compared to KDE.


Best regards


    ce

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:28:21 -0500, Matt Garman wrote:

> So, having said that, what window manager do you use, and why?  I
> wouldn't trade the multitude of options availabe in Linux for
> anything, but the choices can be overwhelming.

KDE. I've tried others but always end up missing some feature of KDE so I
go back. Yes, it has more features and options than I'd ever use, but i'd
rather have 50 unwanted features than be missing one that I need.

Konqueror is simply awesome, due in no small part to the kioslaves giving
access to just about any type of data from any source.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I must have slipped a disk; my pack hurts.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Steve B]

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On 9/1/05, Matt Garman <garman@raw-sewage.net> wrote: 
> 
> 
> Before this gets into a flame war, let's just operate under the
> assertion that the "best" window manager/desktop environment is
> strictly a matter of personal preference.
> 
> So, having said that, what window manager do you use, and why? 

 I was in the same position as you a couple of years ago. I tried various 
WM's and wasn't sure which one to stick with. I came up with the following. 
I used Gnome for a long time, however about six months ago I switched to KDE 
permantly. I do miss certian things about gnome (like better integration 
with D-Bus and automounting hardware), and despite the fact that I primarly 
program with wxWidgets and not Qt.. I still have found KDE to be the most 
usefull to me. I think the big change for me was when Gentoo started the 
split KDE ebuild's so I don't have to have a huge monolithic KDE install 
anymore. Just the basics and some stuff that I acctualy use. KDE is no 
longer a hardware/cpu hog and doesn't take much more resources than Fluxbox. 
However I still use fluxbox if I am going to run a game such as AA.
 -- 
Steve B.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Steve B]

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On 9/1/05, Matt Garman <garman@raw-sewage.net> wrote: 
> 
> 
> Before this gets into a flame war, let's just operate under the
> assertion that the "best" window manager/desktop environment is
> strictly a matter of personal preference.
> 
> So, having said that, what window manager do you use, and why? 

 I was in the same position as you a couple of years ago. I tried various 
WM's and wasn't sure which one to stick with. I came up with the following. 
I used Gnome for a long time, however about six months ago I switched to KDE 
permantly. I do miss certian things about gnome (like better integration 
with D-Bus and automounting hardware), and despite the fact that I primarly 
program with wxWidgets and not Qt.. I still have found KDE to be the most 
usefull to me. I think the big change for me was when Gentoo started the 
split KDE ebuild's so I don't have to have a huge monolithic KDE install 
anymore. Just the basics and some stuff that I acctualy use. KDE is no 
longer a hardware/cpu hog and doesn't take much more resources than Fluxbox. 
However I still use fluxbox if I am going to run a game such as AA.
 -- 
Steve B.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Fernando Canizo]

El 31/ago/2005 a las 19:28 -0300, Matt me decía:
> I've played with a lot of 'em, starting with fvwm, through window
> maker, enlightenment 15 & 16, icewm, gnome, xfce, kde, blackbox...
> I've been using Fluxbox for quite a while now.
> 
> I want something that is fairly minimal/lightweight, but with a hint
> of eye candy and a functional "panel" or taskbar.  Fluxbox just
> about has this, but, I can't seem to figure out how to get a
> gnome-like panel (unless I ran gnome, which would trump the
> lighweight requirement).
 
Hum... then 'wmi' (http://wmi.modprobe.de/) doesn't apply to you.

But i have at least to friends that were using fluxbox and said to me
that they already find the WM they want, that they're conformant, etc,
etc, and now they are using wmi ;)

I think 'wmi' is the right WM for CLI users.

-- 
Fernando Canizo - http://www.lugmen.org.ar/~conan/
Lazlo's Chinese Relativity Axiom:
	No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats --
	approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Bob Sanders]

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:28:21 -0500
Matt Garman <garman@raw-sewage.net> wrote:

> 

> So, having said that, what window manager do you use, and why?  I
> wouldn't trade the multitude of options availabe in Linux for
> anything, but the choices can be overwhelming.
>

enlightenment E16.  After messing with KDE, Gnome, Openbox, fluxbox,
flirting with XCFE and a few others, I came back to Enlightenment.

It's fast, doesn't have the feature I hate most - a taskbar.  Which, IMO, is
the most worthless piece of trash ever created - wastes window space and
provides nothing useful in return.

I like sliding from one desktop to the other - clicking on a desktop to move to
is rather silly.

And I hate having my Xroot hidden by Gnome/KDE with their overlays.  I detest
most icons - mainly those drive icons and mailbox icons.

Simply put if I wanted Windows, with a "Start" button and a task bar,
I'd run Windows. 

Bob
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Are you living in the real world?
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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Holly Bostick]

Steve B schreef:
> On 9/1/05, *Matt Garman* <garman@raw-sewage.net 
> <mailto:garman@raw-sewage.net>> wrote:
> 
> 
> Before this gets into a flame war, let's just operate under the 
> assertion that the "best" window manager/desktop environment is 
> strictly a matter of personal preference.
> 
> So, having said that, what window manager do you use, and why?
> 

All right, I'm good and sick of all the answers in this thread being
'how cool is KDE', so, for something completely different:

I use Openbox (3). I was a GNOME user for a long time, and I do have
GNOME installed, and I do use a lot of GNOME/GTK programs (wherever
possible, actually; I very much dislike KDE for a number of reasons).

However, if I felt KDE was bloated (and I do), GNOME wasn't much better
in that regard-- or at least not enough better to satisfy me. Nautilus
is fairly useless for the way I like to manage files. I don't like
desktop icons. In fact, all I really liked about The GNOME Desktop (as
opposed to GNOME applications) was gnome-panel, which is quite cool for
a full-featured panel.

Then one day I happened on a forum thread about OB 3. It's a window
manager. And that's about it.... OK, you get a dock, if you want to use
it. Everything else, you get to configure yourself... but it's a lot
easier than FVWM.

Right-click on the desktop for the main menu--- *your* main menu,
created by you from an xml file. Keybindings and mouse bindings up the
wazoo. Undecorate windows at will. Scroll through your desktops with the
mouse wheel (on the desktop, on the panel, if you use pypanel like me),
or again, set up keybindings to switch desktops as well. Send your
windows to any desktop, and follow them there-- or
don't. With devilspie, do any or all of the above automatically. Use
whatever panel you like.

Or replace GNOME/KDE/ROX's WMs (metacity, kwin, whatever ROX uses) with
Openbox, and use all of OB's features  with your favorite DE.

One week, I might sit down with FVWM and see if it can top OB when you
really start using all OB's features, but I honestly don't see any reason
to put such an intensive study date on my agenda atm. I'm having too
much fun looking through all the stuff I was never able to use before
because my DE got in the way.

OB isn't perfect, and it's by no means as flashy as E (what could be),
but its not ugly like FVWM is out-of-the-box, its easy to start working
with, you can use programs from any DE or WM with it (except maybe
peksystray, which didn't work for me when I tried it some time ago), and
you can set it up so it works with the way you actually work-- not only
in terms of key and mouse bindings, and in terms of the fact that you
can use the helper apps that you find most comfortable to use, rather
than the ones the DE foists on you, but in terms of the helper apps that
become available to you. Not that you can't use devilspie and asbutton
under KDE or GNOME, but who really ever does?

Because all the utility programs your average DE comes with aren't
included, I went looking, and now I've got all kinds of neat stuff that
I never knew about before. Conky is the newest. I like it, not least
because it replaced several dockapps. That was a blessing, as the dock was
getting a bit bulky with all of the cool monitors and the 4 asbuttons
that allow me to launch any one of *108* applications in a 64*256px
space (9 launchers per button, each launcher can launch up to 3 apps
depending on which mouse button is used to click it-- and I don't have
to run Afterstep to use it, which is the best part imo, no offense to AS).

All of that fading and highlighting and other glitz is all very nice,
but I'm more
impressed by functionalities that help me work faster because I set them
up to work with me, rather than learning to work the way they tell me.

But, "'each to his own taste,' said the lady as she kissed the cow," as
my mother used to say (no idea where she got that from).

Holly
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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Qiangning Hong]

Bob Sanders wrote:
> enlightenment E16.  After messing with KDE, Gnome, Openbox, fluxbox,
> flirting with XCFE and a few others, I came back to Enlightenment.

As an XFCE user currently, I'm curious about what make you guys leave
XFCE for other lightweight WMs?

-- 
Qiangning Hong

Registered Linux User #396996
Get Firefox! <http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=67907&t=1>
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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Nagatoro]

Steve B wrote:
> On 9/1/05, *Matt Garman* <garman@raw-sewage.net 
> <mailto:garman@raw-sewage.net>> wrote:
[...]
>     So, having said that, what window manager do you use, and why? 

I use gnome with enlightenment as the WM, nice and good looking setup.
But... still I'm thinking about trying KDE for real.


> doesn't take much more resources than Fluxbox.  However I still use 
> fluxbox if I am going to run a game such as AA.

[Way off topic]
But where did you find AA? I've looked around and all I've seen is 
"sorry tray again later when we've upgraded the linux code"

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Philip Webb]

050831 Matt Garman wrote:
> what window manager do you use, and why?

I've done my own review a couple of times, when dissatisfied,
so I have an idea of what each of a fair number does.

I started with a very primitive KDE on an early Mandrake,
read about Xfce, tried it -- version 3.18.8 -- , liked it & adopted it:
it was more elegant than KDE, but fully capable of managing my activities.
Soon afterwards, the Xfce devs brought out a total rewrite (4.0.0),
which never lived upto their promises & lacked items from 3.18.8 .

Finally, irritated by the state of things around Xfce, 
I did another review & discovered Blackbox (0.65),
which was very simple, but also fully useable once I found out how.
Soon afterwards, the Blackbox dev (there's only one) brought out a rewrite
-- 0.70 -- which didn't work with some of the BB plug-ins & gadgets,
making it impossible to use without constant irritation.

As I had KDE installed to support useful apps, I went back to that
& have found that it is now fast & highly configurable to my tastes
with a very wide range of useful features, so that is today's choice.
I like to use the whole of my 15" screen & KDE allows me to hide the panel;
I rely on the R-click desktop menu to start apps.

The KDE team did a very thoro' survey of users' requests c 2003
& as a result introduced a host of improvements, which shine today.
They also made a real effort to make the whole thing much faster
& now the Gentoo devs have split it up into easy bits for emerging.

I do have Fluxbox installed as a back-up, in case KDE falls down a hole.
Fvwm looks like a meta-WM which can be infinitely configured
& I still have it installed, but haven't pursued it anywhere.

My strong preference is for something I can use & look at day after day
without being distracted by candy or hindered by awkwardnesses.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Martins Steinbergs]

> > what window manager do you use, and why?

I stick with KDE, got on it since kde 3.0. and still using it 'cause just i am 
confortable with it, and looks pretty.
Also got installed"
Gnome - to run gnope apps
Xcfs - for emergency
e 17 - just for eye, and actualy this works even if xorg goes bad

had used icewm and blackbox on one old box, but now that box is gone.

However, hello to everyone

Martins
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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Holly Bostick]

Nagatoro schreef:
> 
> [Way off topic]
> But where did you find AA? I've looked around and all I've seen is
> "sorry tray again later when we've upgraded the linux code"
> 

Portage?

eix america
* games-fps/americas-army
     Available versions:  230
     Installed:           none
     Homepage:            http://www.americasarmy.com/
     Description:         America's Army: Special Forces - military
simulations by the U.S. Army to provide civilians with insights on
soldiering

Found 1 matches

According to the site, that's the latest version available for Linux
(though there's a 2.4 version for Windows):

Latest Full Client Info
America's Army For Windows Users :
AA:SF (Q-Course) v.2.4 (855 MB) - This is the full windows installation.

Linux & Mac versions are still at v2.3 (Firefight). We will update the
links to v2.4 once they become available.

HTH,
Holly
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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[krzaq]

On 9/1/05, Matt Garman <garman@raw-sewage.net> wrote: 
> Anyway, I was just hoping to start a "pub"-style conversation on
> what people like/disklike in a window manager.
Xfce4 is really great in my opinion. KDE is just ... too much. I see all tons 
of icons/apps that I never use and get discouraged.

I also use icewm from time to time.
Its very simple, small and has most features you would want from a WM.

-- 
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Karol Krzak

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[krzaq]

On 9/1/05, Matt Garman <garman@raw-sewage.net> wrote: 
> Anyway, I was just hoping to start a "pub"-style conversation on
> what people like/disklike in a window manager.
Xfce4 is really great in my opinion. KDE is just ... too much. I see all tons 
of icons/apps that I never use and get discouraged.

I also use icewm from time to time.
Its very simple, small and has most features you would want from a WM.

-- 
Regards
Karol Krzak

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Bob Sanders]

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:40:08 +0800
Qiangning Hong <hongqn@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bob Sanders wrote:
> > enlightenment E16.  After messing with KDE, Gnome, Openbox, fluxbox,
> > flirting with XCFE and a few others, I came back to Enlightenment.
> 
> As an XFCE user currently, I'm curious about what make you guys leave
> XFCE for other lightweight WMs?
> 

The feel and I run at 1600x1024 with Eterm as my main term.  I like the way the menu
system works.  I like the ease of setting up my own background - especially without
a lot of menu crawling.  I like the seperate pager and Windows Overview of E.  On a
laptop, E makes it real easy to have multiple desktops with apps running, easy to get to.

But it does come down to personal preferences.  And I've used a lot of window managers.
Perhaps more than most -- original microVAX/VMS win, then X (the very firstl),
GEM on AtariST, Amiga's WM, NeXt, Sun, BeOS, Win 3.1/95/98/NT/2K/XP, ripped off
the wm in Win98 and put Litestep on, used CDE (had to test it, yuk!), 4DWM (Irix, about the
only one I've been able to stand the icons on).

It's like editors, use enough of them, and they all feel a bit familar, but you end up coming
back to one or two for all your daily activity because of the feel.  And I'm no longer any
good at any editor - used too many in the past, way too many.  Email programs as well,
I miss RSTS/E email.  That was one sweet program.  But it too got too "safe" when they
productized it.

Bob
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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Holly Bostick]

Bob Sanders schreef:
> But it does come down to personal preferences.  And I've used a lot of window managers.
><snip>
> ripped off
> the wm in Win98 and put Litestep on

Hey, finally, another Litestep expat! I was beginning to think I was the
only one.... :)

Holly
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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Greg Shikhman]

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I have tried out KDE and I am now using GNOME. It seems like GNOME has more 
of a skinning functionality although it does look a lot more bland 
initially. 
 ++ OT:
 In KDE, if I emerged an app, it would appear in the applications menu. In 
GNOME, I have to add them in manually. Is there any configuration setting to 
change that?

 On 9/1/05, Holly Bostick <motub@planet.nl> wrote: 
> 
> Bob Sanders schreef:
> > But it does come down to personal preferences. And I've used a lot of 
> window managers.
> ><snip>
> > ripped off
> > the wm in Win98 and put Litestep on
> 
> Hey, finally, another Litestep expat! I was beginning to think I was the
> only one.... :)
> 
> Holly
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Mark Shields]

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They should be adding automatically, Greg. Mine does.

On 9/1/05, Greg Shikhman <cornmander@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I have tried out KDE and I am now using GNOME. It seems like GNOME has 
> more of a skinning functionality although it does look a lot more bland 
> initially. 
>  ++ OT:
>  In KDE, if I emerged an app, it would appear in the applications menu. In 
> GNOME, I have to add them in manually. Is there any configuration setting to 
> change that?
> 
>  On 9/1/05, Holly Bostick <motub@planet.nl> wrote: 
> > 
> > Bob Sanders schreef:
> > > But it does come down to personal preferences. And I've used a lot of 
> > window managers. 
> > ><snip>
> > > ripped off
> > > the wm in Win98 and put Litestep on
> > 
> > Hey, finally, another Litestep expat! I was beginning to think I was the
> > only one.... :)
> > 
> > Holly
> > --
> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> > 
> > 
> 


-- 
- Mark Shields

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Nagatoro]

Holly Bostick wrote:
> Nagatoro schreef:
> 
>>[Way off topic]
>>But where did you find AA? I've looked around and all I've seen is
>>"sorry tray again later when we've upgraded the linux code"
> 
> Portage?
Doh!
/me goes into a corner for awhile.

Thanks!
-- 
Naga
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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[danielhf]

On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 05:28:21PM -0500, Matt Garman wrote:
> 
> Before this gets into a flame war, let's just operate under the
> assertion that the "best" window manager/desktop environment is
> strictly a matter of personal preference.
> 
> So, having said that, what window manager do you use, and why?  I
> wouldn't trade the multitude of options availabe in Linux for
> anything, but the choices can be overwhelming.
> 
> I've played with a lot of 'em, starting with fvwm, through window
> maker, enlightenment 15 & 16, icewm, gnome, xfce, kde, blackbox...
> I've been using Fluxbox for quite a while now.
> 
> I want something that is fairly minimal/lightweight, but with a hint
> of eye candy and a functional "panel" or taskbar.  Fluxbox just
> about has this, but, I can't seem to figure out how to get a
> gnome-like panel (unless I ran gnome, which would trump the
> lighweight requirement).
> 
> I've seen the E17 screenshots, and I'd like to run it, but it's not
> a trivial install, plus it's still alpha code (though there's plenty
> of anecdotal evidence that it's plenty stable... I'd still rather
> wait for an "official" release).
> 
> Some interesting links, if you aren't already aware:
> 
> http://xwinman.org/ - basic overview of available WMs/DEs
> http://www.lynucs.org/ - desktop screenshot archive
> http://www.enlightenment.org/ - best of eye candy :)
> 
> Anyway, I was just hoping to start a "pub"-style conversation on
> what people like/disklike in a window manager.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt
> 
> -- 
> Matt Garman
> email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email
> -- 
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

  seems that nobody likes FVWM, i dont like to try a lot of things, 
most of WMs mentioned here are not used )-:
Gnome and KDE are OK and used to be my faviorate desktops, however,
they are just too good for  me, ;-) i would like one which is lightweight
and can be fully controlled. i know there must be a lot of excellent WM
around, i just give FVWM a try and stick to it afterwards, i configured
a taskbar, a clock, some menus and nothing more. it's perfect!
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[danielhf]

On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 05:28:21PM -0500, Matt Garman wrote:
> 
> Before this gets into a flame war, let's just operate under the
> assertion that the "best" window manager/desktop environment is
> strictly a matter of personal preference.
> 
> So, having said that, what window manager do you use, and why?  I
> wouldn't trade the multitude of options availabe in Linux for
> anything, but the choices can be overwhelming.
> 
> I've played with a lot of 'em, starting with fvwm, through window
> maker, enlightenment 15 & 16, icewm, gnome, xfce, kde, blackbox...
> I've been using Fluxbox for quite a while now.
> 
> I want something that is fairly minimal/lightweight, but with a hint
> of eye candy and a functional "panel" or taskbar.  Fluxbox just
> about has this, but, I can't seem to figure out how to get a
> gnome-like panel (unless I ran gnome, which would trump the
> lighweight requirement).
> 
> I've seen the E17 screenshots, and I'd like to run it, but it's not
> a trivial install, plus it's still alpha code (though there's plenty
> of anecdotal evidence that it's plenty stable... I'd still rather
> wait for an "official" release).
> 
> Some interesting links, if you aren't already aware:
> 
> http://xwinman.org/ - basic overview of available WMs/DEs
> http://www.lynucs.org/ - desktop screenshot archive
> http://www.enlightenment.org/ - best of eye candy :)
> 
> Anyway, I was just hoping to start a "pub"-style conversation on
> what people like/disklike in a window manager.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt
> 
> -- 
> Matt Garman
> email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email
> -- 
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

  seems that nobody likes FVWM, i dont like to try a lot of things, 
most of WMs mentioned here are not used )-:
Gnome and KDE are OK and used to be my faviorate desktops, however,
they are just too good for  me, ;-) i would like one which is lightweight
and can be fully controlled. i know there must be a lot of excellent WM
around, i just give FVWM a try and stick to it afterwards, i configured
a taskbar, a clock, some menus and nothing more. it's perfect!
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Thomas Kirchner]

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* On Sep  2 20:59, danielhf@21cn.com wrote:
> seems that nobody likes FVWM

Hey, I use FVWM and love it, have for a long time ;)  FVWM is small, 
ultimately customizable, and can do everything any other WM can do, with 
a bit of work.  Virtually any dreamable interface is possible with it.  
This can be a bit daunting, though, so when I was setting it up I found a 
fairly good base (taviso's, I believe) and customized the heck out of it.  
Now it's perfect for me, and I just can't get rid of it.  I've tried 
pretty much every other option, but only FVWM can scratch everyone's 
exact itch - if they're patient.
Tom

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[ellotheth rimmwen]

On 9/1/05, Holly Bostick <motub@planet.nl> wrote:

> Hey, finally, another Litestep expat! I was beginning to think I was the
> only one.... :)

and here's another. *grin*

currently using enlightenment. i like the pager, i like the config
options, and quite frankly, the drag bar is just nifty. i'm on my way
to exploring blackbox and its family. and this is my first list post
(gentoo installed last weekend), so hello list.

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Matthias Bethke]

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Hi Matt,
on Wednesday, 2005-08-31 at 17:28:21, you wrote:
> Anyway, I was just hoping to start a "pub"-style conversation on
> what people like/disklike in a window manager.

It's been XFCE here for a while. When I ran NetBSD years ago, nothing
but fvwm would run at decent speed (not that there had been much
choice), so I used this for a while. Then it was Linux/KDE for a while
on a 486, which was quite a pain. When I discovered Gnome, I liked the
clean look of GTK and its speed. Version 2 annoyed me because everything
got fatter and had less features than the 1.x version, but I stuck with
it out of inertia, it was well configured and all...
XFCE is for me what Gnome used to be: slim and fast, a clean look and
just as many knobs to tweak as I need but no more.
Now, WMII looks interesting as well. Unlikely I'm going to switch but
I'll have a look at it.

cheers!
	Matthias

-- 
I prefer encrypted and signed messages.       KeyID: 90CF8389
Fingerprint: 8E 1F 10 81 A4 66 29 46  B9 8A B9 E2 09 9F 3B 91

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Wade Brown]

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I suppose to make this thread complete I'll be the first (maybe only?) one 
to voice support for good old WindowMaker. I think the biggest reason I 
still use it is that I'm just stuck in a rut, I have been running it for 
ages and have never wanted anything better. It's definitely light weight 
enough to suit most needs for people who have that desire, theming exists, 
but no actual skinning support. It's a bit boxier than most so for eyecandy, 
it's not stellar, but has a simple clean feel to it.

I think my favorite feature is the dockapps (check 
http://www.bensinclair.com/dockapp/ for examples), which I know are clearly 
portable, but integrate most cleanly into WindowMaker. These can provide 
that desired eyecandy, such as wmBlob, or simple controls to your favorite 
programs, like wmXMMS. With adjustable icon width, these can take up almost 
no space around your edges leaving plenty of real estate for your web 
browsers and such. Better still, they don't even have to be reserved space, 
they can just fade into the background. One extra bonus to XFCE users is 
WindowMaker works fairly well with that on top, not that I use it, but I've 
known a few people who do because they like the added functionality.

I'm sure none of my reasons justify WindowMaker as the best choice for my 
desires, but like I said, I'm in a rut, and it's quite comfortable. Maybe 
when the bedsores start popping up I'll come back to this thread...

--
Wade Brown

On 9/2/05, Matthias Bethke <Matthias.Bethke@gmx.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Matt,
> on Wednesday, 2005-08-31 at 17:28:21, you wrote:
> > Anyway, I was just hoping to start a "pub"-style conversation on
> > what people like/disklike in a window manager.
> 
> It's been XFCE here for a while. When I ran NetBSD years ago, nothing
> but fvwm would run at decent speed (not that there had been much
> choice), so I used this for a while. Then it was Linux/KDE for a while
> on a 486, which was quite a pain. When I discovered Gnome, I liked the
> clean look of GTK and its speed. Version 2 annoyed me because everything
> got fatter and had less features than the 1.x version, but I stuck with
> it out of inertia, it was well configured and all...
> XFCE is for me what Gnome used to be: slim and fast, a clean look and
> just as many knobs to tweak as I need but no more.
> Now, WMII looks interesting as well. Unlikely I'm going to switch but
> I'll have a look at it.
> 
> cheers!
> Matthias
> 
> --
> I prefer encrypted and signed messages. KeyID: 90CF8389
> Fingerprint: 8E 1F 10 81 A4 66 29 46 B9 8A B9 E2 09 9F 3B 91
> 
> 
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Matt Garman]

On Fri, Sep 02, 2005 at 09:15:26AM -0400, Thomas Kirchner wrote:
> This can be a bit daunting, though, so when I was setting it up I
> found a fairly good base (taviso's, I believe) and customized the
> heck out of it.  Now it's perfect for me, and I just can't get rid
> of it.  I've tried pretty much every other option, but only FVWM
> can scratch everyone's exact itch - if they're patient.

I did a search for "taviso" and found his fvwm2rc file:

http://dev.gentoo.org/~taviso/fvwm2rc.html

There's also a lot of screenshots (and even a video!) of that
desktop.

After starting this thread, I got to playing with enlightenment
DR16 (not ready for 17 yet).  Despite being known for the eye candy,
it (so far) has proven itself to be a great lightweight window
manager.  Raster (enlightenment author) wrote a simple window
manager benchmark program; see the results of some typical window
managers here:

http://www.rasterman.com/index.php?page=News

I'd like to see some more window manager benchmarks (because I'm a
bit suspicious given that enlightenment had the best results in this
benchmark).  But I ran the two tests on my machine, and my results
were consistent with Raster's.  In fact, the two "fastest" window
managers I tested were enlightenment DR16 and FVWM.

I did play with Fvwm for a while, though.  And taviso's
configuration pretty much proves that *anything* is possible.  It
just takes so much work to get it looking "nice"!  The Fvwm
development team might take offense to this, but they could probably
improve their "market share" if fvwm looked... different... out of
the box.

Not that market share is really important here, but it's a bit
ironic to see all the window managers that have been written, either
from scratch or as hacks on FVWM, when FVWM has been able to do
pretty much everything for a long time.

Well, now I'm thinking I need to learn X11 programming, and hack on
FVWM or something... another project in my infinitely-long queue of
started-but-not-finished projects.

Matt

-- 
Matt Garman
email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Philip Webb]

050904 Matt Garman wrote:
> I did a search for "taviso" and found his fvwm2rc file:
>   http://dev.gentoo.org/~taviso/fvwm2rc.html
> There's also a lot of screenshots (and even a video!) of that desktop.

The video is astonishing !  Fvwm2 looks like great fun, if you have the time.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Martin S]

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I enjoy KDE, especially since the atomic builds were introduced. The full 
KDE is so full of - for my needs - completely useless junk, that I've kept 
away from it. The bloatedness of KDE atomic is quite acceptable for me. 
Also, I'm pretty satisfied with the eye-candy. Useability wise, for me, KDE 
is "better" than Gnome, which I've tried very hard to like. 

I wanted to like Gnome, and was excited by the new release (what is standard 
now - I've forgotten the version number) but the dialog boxes for Open File 
etc simply made me throw it out. Add to that the main KDE killer Evolution 
went from the Outlook layout to something else, and Kontact took its place. 
(The organisation of data is the only think I like in Outlook).

I've played with other WM/DEs as well. On RedHat I used WindowMaker and on 
Gentoo I've played with Enlightenment E16/E17 a bit. When the urge comes 
over me to be "Unixy" I use E. It was some time ago though. 

The main problem I feel is that lots of apps are written for a specific WM 
rather than a generic non-WM/DE-dependent API. Which makes the entire 
desktop look like bits and pieces the cat draged home (run Gimp, Kontact and 
Scid under KDE and you'll know what I mean). There was (is?) a setting in 
KDE to force *some* apps to bend to the theme of KDE, but that was buggy 
when I tried it last time.

2005/9/1, Matt Garman <garman@raw-sewage.net>:
> 
> 
> Before this gets into a flame war, let's just operate under the
> assertion that the "best" window manager/desktop environment is
> strictly a matter of personal preference.
> 
> So, having said that, what window manager do you use, and why? I
> wouldn't trade the multitude of options availabe in Linux for
> anything, but the choices can be overwhelming.
> 
> I've played with a lot of 'em, starting with fvwm, through window
> maker, enlightenment 15 & 16, icewm, gnome, xfce, kde, blackbox...
> I've been using Fluxbox for quite a while now.
> 
> I want something that is fairly minimal/lightweight, but with a hint
> of eye candy and a functional "panel" or taskbar. Fluxbox just
> about has this, but, I can't seem to figure out how to get a
> gnome-like panel (unless I ran gnome, which would trump the
> lighweight requirement).
> 
> I've seen the E17 screenshots, and I'd like to run it, but it's not
> a trivial install, plus it's still alpha code (though there's plenty
> of anecdotal evidence that it's plenty stable... I'd still rather
> wait for an "official" release).
> 
> Some interesting links, if you aren't already aware:
> 
> http://xwinman.org/ - basic overview of available WMs/DEs
> http://www.lynucs.org/ - desktop screenshot archive
> http://www.enlightenment.org/ - best of eye candy :)
> 
> Anyway, I was just hoping to start a "pub"-style conversation on
> what people like/disklike in a window manager.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt
> 
> --
> Matt Garman
> email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 


-- 
Regards,

Martin S

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Martin S]

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I enjoy KDE, especially since the atomic builds were introduced. The full 
KDE is so full of - for my needs - completely useless junk, that I've kept 
away from it. The bloatedness of KDE atomic is quite acceptable for me. 
Also, I'm pretty satisfied with the eye-candy. Useability wise, for me, KDE 
is "better" than Gnome, which I've tried very hard to like. 

I wanted to like Gnome, and was excited by the new release (what is standard 
now - I've forgotten the version number) but the dialog boxes for Open File 
etc simply made me throw it out. Add to that the main KDE killer Evolution 
went from the Outlook layout to something else, and Kontact took its place. 
(The organisation of data is the only think I like in Outlook).

I've played with other WM/DEs as well. On RedHat I used WindowMaker and on 
Gentoo I've played with Enlightenment E16/E17 a bit. When the urge comes 
over me to be "Unixy" I use E. It was some time ago though. 

The main problem I feel is that lots of apps are written for a specific WM 
rather than a generic non-WM/DE-dependent API. Which makes the entire 
desktop look like bits and pieces the cat draged home (run Gimp, Kontact and 
Scid under KDE and you'll know what I mean). There was (is?) a setting in 
KDE to force *some* apps to bend to the theme of KDE, but that was buggy 
when I tried it last time.

2005/9/1, Matt Garman <garman@raw-sewage.net>:
> 
> 
> Before this gets into a flame war, let's just operate under the
> assertion that the "best" window manager/desktop environment is
> strictly a matter of personal preference.
> 
> So, having said that, what window manager do you use, and why? I
> wouldn't trade the multitude of options availabe in Linux for
> anything, but the choices can be overwhelming.
> 
> I've played with a lot of 'em, starting with fvwm, through window
> maker, enlightenment 15 & 16, icewm, gnome, xfce, kde, blackbox...
> I've been using Fluxbox for quite a while now.
> 
> I want something that is fairly minimal/lightweight, but with a hint
> of eye candy and a functional "panel" or taskbar. Fluxbox just
> about has this, but, I can't seem to figure out how to get a
> gnome-like panel (unless I ran gnome, which would trump the
> lighweight requirement).
> 
> I've seen the E17 screenshots, and I'd like to run it, but it's not
> a trivial install, plus it's still alpha code (though there's plenty
> of anecdotal evidence that it's plenty stable... I'd still rather
> wait for an "official" release).
> 
> Some interesting links, if you aren't already aware:
> 
> http://xwinman.org/ - basic overview of available WMs/DEs
> http://www.lynucs.org/ - desktop screenshot archive
> http://www.enlightenment.org/ - best of eye candy :)
> 
> Anyway, I was just hoping to start a "pub"-style conversation on
> what people like/disklike in a window manager.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt
> 
> --
> Matt Garman
> email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 


-- 
Regards,

Martin S

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:41:36 +0200, Martin S wrote:

> The main problem I feel is that lots of apps are written for a specific
> WM rather than a generic non-WM/DE-dependent API. Which makes the
> entire desktop look like bits and pieces the cat draged home (run Gimp,
> Kontact and Scid under KDE and you'll know what I mean). There was
> (is?) a setting in KDE to force *some* apps to bend to the theme of
> KDE, but that was buggy when I tried it last time.

Each DE has its own set of design guidelines, while there isn't so much
of a coherent overall standard. x11-themes/gtk-engines-qt can help with a
consistent look, it seems stable nowadays.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

If it doesn't move, eat it. If it moves, kill it. Then eat it.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Holly Bostick]

Martin S schreef:
> 
> The main problem I feel is that lots of apps are written for a 
> specific WM rather than a generic non-WM/DE-dependent API. Which 
> makes the entire desktop look like bits and pieces the cat draged 
> home (run Gimp, Kontact and Scid under KDE and you'll know what I 
> mean). There was (is?) a setting in KDE to force *some* apps to bend 
> to the theme of KDE, but that was buggy when I tried it last time.

Actually, I use(d) the setting (kcontrol=> Appearance and Themes=>
Color=> Apply KDE colors to non-KDE apps, which I still have set), so
colors always matched across both toolsets (except for Firefox, where
most themes don't pick up system colors), which is a big step in the
right direction.

But now I use:

x11-themes/gtk-engines-qt
     Available versions:  0.6-r1
     Installed:           0.6-r1
     Homepage:            http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/gtk-qt
     Description:         GTK+2 Qt Theme Engine

This package

1) adds a setting to Kcontrol to tell KDE to use either use the KDE
theme and fonts for GTK apps, or you can specify theme and fonts what to
use for GTK apps, the benefit being you can do this in Kcontrol, rather
than having to get a GNOME theme switch application (though I had one
anyway, and this function seems to apply only to GTK2, not GTK1, which
was a problem for me--but I solved it);

2) provides an engine for the various KDE themes that have been 'ported'
to GTK (2), such as Liquid, I think Baghira's been done, basically
search 'GTK' on KDE-Look.org, and you'll find a bunch.

But this didn't help me with GTK1 apps, of which I have several, notably
multi-gnome-terminal. But I was able to conform them as well by doing
the following:

Found a theme on KDE-Look org which was for all three toolsets: KDE,
GTK2, and GTK1 (there are not many, but there are a couple), namely QTCurve.

Set all three toolsets to use it (KDE in Kcontrol, GTK2 in either
Kcontrol, Gnome Control Center/Themes, gtk-chtheme, or gtk-theme-switch
(version 2, called with 'switch2'), and GTK1 in gtk-theme-switch
(version 1, also installed, called with 'switch').

I'm sure that many would consider this overcomplicated (and it probably
is), but the hardest part was finding a theme (that I liked) that was
designed for all three toolsets. Once I had done that, setting it up was
pretty simple, and it works well; all applications (except those which
do not use system themes, which on my system is essentially Firefox and
OO.o) use the same theme and colors, from The Gimp, to Krusader, to
gnotepad +. So my desktop looks quite consistent in that respect,
despite the fact that it is neither KDE nor GNOME.

Fonts are a bit of a problem, though-- font sizes seem to change if I
'mix' apps from KDE (specifically, I don't think this happens if I run a
QT-but-not-KDE app) on my primarily GTK-based desktop. The fonts and
sizes are set to the same in both GNOME and KDE, but if I open a KDE
app, they seem to display as smaller, and then newly-opened GTK apps seem to
display the fonts as slightly bigger. I suspect that this is a bit of
fallout from the lack of interoperability/lack of conformance to the
freedesktop.org standard, and neither DE is quite sure who's supposed to
be controlling the font size once both DEs are controlling a portion of
the open applications on the desktop, so they have a minor conflict
about it.

It's an annoyance, not really a 'problem', and overall, the system works
well.

Holly





-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?

[Martin S]

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2005/9/7, Holly Bostick <motub@planet.nl>:
> 
> 
> 
> x11-themes/gtk-engines-qt
> ...



Haven't tried that. I'll give it a look. I do think it is problem though 
that you will have such very different standards as to how applications are 
supposed to work between WMs/DEs (just take file management).




Regards,

Martin S

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