[gentoo-user] To emerge -e world or not to emerge -e world?

[gentoo-user] To emerge -e world or not to emerge -e world?

[Matt Randolph]

I know that upgrading glibc can cause some programs to break if they 
were built against the previous glibc.  This happens to me all the time 
and I have gotten in the habit of simply re-emerging any packages that 
misbehave since a glibc upgrade.

Well, I have upgraded both glibc and gcc within the last week or so.  
And I've been contemplating a kernel upgrade too.  I looked at genlop 
and it said it will take a mere fourteen hours to re-emerge everything 
with an emerge -e world.  I'm tempted to do it, but I'm wary of making 
major changes to a system that currently seems to be working perfectly. 

However, I've only tested a handful of packages (the ones that I use 
every day) since the glibc upgrade, and I did have to rebuild a few of 
them.  For this reason, I'm guessing that a significant number of the 
packages that I haven't tested are actually broken too.  So when I say 
my system seems to be working perfectly, I think that only applies to 
the packages that I interact with daily and probably not to some of the 
ones that I don't.

When does it make sense to re-emerge everything?  I've heard some people 
say never but that others do it perhaps monthly or even more often.

Is there a (significant) risk that something will go wrong?  Even 
terribly wrong?

Is it possible that some important programs aren't working right now due 
to having been built against an older glibc, and that I'm simply 
oblivious to the fact that they aren't working?  I'm worried 
specifically about system programs that I don't usually have reason to 
interact with, yet may be vitally important to the security and 
stability of my system.
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Re: [gentoo-user] To emerge -e world or not to emerge -e world?

[Mark Shields]

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Depending on what you have installed, it will take more than 14 hours. Are 
you sure they're talking about emerge -e system and not emerge -e world?

On 8/29/05, Matt Randolph <mattr@erols.com> wrote:
> 
> I know that upgrading glibc can cause some programs to break if they
> were built against the previous glibc. This happens to me all the time
> and I have gotten in the habit of simply re-emerging any packages that
> misbehave since a glibc upgrade.
> 
> Well, I have upgraded both glibc and gcc within the last week or so.
> And I've been contemplating a kernel upgrade too. I looked at genlop
> and it said it will take a mere fourteen hours to re-emerge everything
> with an emerge -e world. I'm tempted to do it, but I'm wary of making
> major changes to a system that currently seems to be working perfectly.
> 
> However, I've only tested a handful of packages (the ones that I use
> every day) since the glibc upgrade, and I did have to rebuild a few of
> them. For this reason, I'm guessing that a significant number of the
> packages that I haven't tested are actually broken too. So when I say
> my system seems to be working perfectly, I think that only applies to
> the packages that I interact with daily and probably not to some of the
> ones that I don't.
> 
> When does it make sense to re-emerge everything? I've heard some people
> say never but that others do it perhaps monthly or even more often.
> 
> Is there a (significant) risk that something will go wrong? Even
> terribly wrong?
> 
> Is it possible that some important programs aren't working right now due
> to having been built against an older glibc, and that I'm simply
> oblivious to the fact that they aren't working? I'm worried
> specifically about system programs that I don't usually have reason to
> interact with, yet may be vitally important to the security and
> stability of my system.
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 


-- 
- Mark Shields

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Re: [gentoo-user] To emerge -e world or not to emerge -e world?

[Heinz Sporn]

Am Montag, den 29.08.2005, 14:24 -0400 schrieb Matt Randolph:
> I know that upgrading glibc can cause some programs to break if they 
> were built against the previous glibc.  This happens to me all the time 
> and I have gotten in the habit of simply re-emerging any packages that 
> misbehave since a glibc upgrade.
> 
> Well, I have upgraded both glibc and gcc within the last week or so.  
> And I've been contemplating a kernel upgrade too.  I looked at genlop 
> and it said it will take a mere fourteen hours to re-emerge everything 
> with an emerge -e world.  I'm tempted to do it, but I'm wary of making 
> major changes to a system that currently seems to be working perfectly. 
> 
I don't think there's a simple yes or no answer to this problem. And I
am sure there's a lot of people who had their troubles with re-emerging
an entire system.

I myself did never experience any severe troubles. Recently I set up a
new test-server for combined file-, print-, mail- and web-services. I
fiddled around with PAM, LDAP and other stuff and decided three times
over the testing period to run an emerge --newuse -e world. We're
talking here something like 180 packages including Samba, CUPS, Courier,
Apache, PHP, PostgreSQL and X. Maybe I was lucky but everything went
just fine.

I believe that the cleaner you're system is the better chances are that
your system will survive an emerge -e. What's a clean system for me: a
system that does not show any signs of misbehaviour and that carries -
if at all - just a minimum of unstable packages safely defined
in /etc/portage.

On the other hand: if we are talking here about a productive system in a
multi-user environment then "Never touch a running systems" rules by all
means! ;-)


-- 
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SPORN it-freelancing

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Re: [gentoo-user] To emerge -e world or not to emerge -e world?

[Matt Randolph]

$ emerge -ep system | genlop -p
[...]
Estimated update time: 2 hours, 30 minutes.

$ emerge -ep world | genlop -p
[...]
Estimated update time: 14 hours, 40 minutes.

But genlop is entitled to make mistakes.  Those did seem like rather 
small numbers to me.  What would be more realistic?  100 hours?

Mark Shields wrote:

> Depending on what you have installed, it will take more than 14 
> hours.  Are you sure they're talking about emerge -e system and not 
> emerge -e world?
>
> On 8/29/05, *Matt Randolph* <mattr@erols.com <mailto:mattr@erols.com>> 
> wrote:
>
>     I know that upgrading glibc can cause some programs to break if they
>     were built against the previous glibc.  This happens to me all the
>     time
>     and I have gotten in the habit of simply re-emerging any packages that
>     misbehave since a glibc upgrade.
>
>     Well, I have upgraded both glibc and gcc within the last week or so.
>     And I've been contemplating a kernel upgrade too.  I looked at genlop
>     and it said it will take a mere fourteen hours to re-emerge everything
>     with an emerge -e world.  I'm tempted to do it, but I'm wary of making
>     major changes to a system that currently seems to be working
>     perfectly.
>
>     However, I've only tested a handful of packages (the ones that I use
>     every day) since the glibc upgrade, and I did have to rebuild a few of
>     them.  For this reason, I'm guessing that a significant number of the
>     packages that I haven't tested are actually broken too.  So when I say
>     my system seems to be working perfectly, I think that only applies to
>     the packages that I interact with daily and probably not to some
>     of the
>     ones that I don't.
>
>     When does it make sense to re-emerge everything?  I've heard some
>     people
>     say never but that others do it perhaps monthly or even more often.
>
>     Is there a (significant) risk that something will go wrong?  Even
>     terribly wrong?
>
>     Is it possible that some important programs aren't working right
>     now due
>     to having been built against an older glibc, and that I'm simply
>     oblivious to the fact that they aren't working?  I'm worried
>     specifically about system programs that I don't usually have reason to
>     interact with, yet may be vitally important to the security and
>     stability of my system.
>     --
>     gentoo-user@gentoo.org <mailto:gentoo-user@gentoo.org> mailing list
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> - Mark Shields 



-- 
"Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate" - W. of O.

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Re: [gentoo-user] To emerge -e world or not to emerge -e world?

[Willie Wong]

On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 12:20:22PM -0400, Matt Randolph wrote:
> $ emerge -ep system | genlop -p
> [...]
> Estimated update time: 2 hours, 30 minutes.

whoa! that is scary. 
2 hours 30 minutes is barely enough for me to emerge gcc and glibc.

> 
> $ emerge -ep world | genlop -p
> [...]
> Estimated update time: 14 hours, 40 minutes.
> 
> But genlop is entitled to make mistakes.  Those did seem like rather 
> small numbers to me.  What would be more realistic?  100 hours?

2 days?

W
-- 
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