From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E0qvd-0004cu-BJ for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 01:23:17 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j751Lfmr017399; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 01:21:41 GMT Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice01.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.75]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j751I6C4011356 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 01:18:07 GMT Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j751IrNN028435 for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2005 21:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sep.dynalias.net (fez.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.190]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j751IqZP010239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2005 21:18:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sep.dynalias.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D61F338BA28; Thu, 4 Aug 2005 21:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 21:18:50 -0400 From: Willie Wong To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges Message-ID: <20050805011850.GA1511@princeton.edu> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <200508040843.16581.yeahsowhat@gmail.com> <200508040903.25072.yeahsowhat@gmail.com> <42F25622.5070108@cfrscca.net> <20050805014103.60e50454@snowdrop.home> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050805014103.60e50454@snowdrop.home> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.8i X-Archives-Salt: 8d8c62cb-3741-4de2-84de-9ba66ec72845 X-Archives-Hash: 4afb9e7cecd0dcb3b1778362727b12f2 On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 01:41:03AM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > If you're going to learn Linux, why not start with a distribution which > caters for newbies when making design decisions, rather than one which > assumes that its users know what they're doing? > I partially agree. In my mind, learning linux is about two things: 1) getting familiarized with the user interface and userland tools to be productive in everyday tasks. 2) system administration. And I happen to believe that it would be unfair to force 2 on someone who is not familiar with 1. If I were to set out on a crusade converting people to linux, I would first give out Knoppix CDs for them to try out the environment. A little hand holding should allow them to get over the fear of the CLI. After building up their confidence and some basic skills (understanding the directory structure, basic bash bulletins; simple things), then depending on their level of commitment, I will give them one of Gentoo, Debian, or Mandrake. One of the things I wished someone explained to me when I first installed gentoo is choosing the various tools for system administration. The pros/cons of different cron daemons, different MTAs, different logging utilities. My choice of vixie-cron + metalog + logrotate + postfix is arbitrary and contrived, and sometimes I wonder whether I would be better off running syslog + qmail. But I do not feel like completely rebuilding my system from sketch to redo those design decisions. Heck, if people come to me for advice, I would probably just tell them to install ssmtp... Anyway, my point is that it is only harmful if an individual relies too much on a gui for system administration. People should be forced to learn the joy of administrating by hand editing the config files in /etc. But for someone who just want to try out "this lie knocks thingie" or for someone looking for open alternatives of userland tools, a pretty/easy to use GUI might probably be a better and gentler introduction to free software. W -- YAAH! DEATH TO OATMEAL! -- Calvin Sortir en Pantoufles: up 4 days, 8:30 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list