[gentoo-user] <OT>: virtual Windows solution...

[gentoo-user] <OT>: virtual Windows solution...

[Jarry]

Hi,

I still can not get rid completely of MS-Windows, because I am
forced to use some MS-Windows programs. So I am looking for some
"virtual" solution, which I could use with my gentoo-workstation.

Now my question is, what is generaly a better solution
(stability, compatibility, hardware requirements point of view):

- to use "Windows emulator" aka Wine (I know, it is NOT emulator)
- or to use "PC emulator" + Windows installed (like VMware) ???

Up to now I did not test any of them, so could someone please
be so kind and summarise his/her experience, ev. compare those
solutions?

Thanks,
Jarry

(BTW, just yesterday VMware released a free vmware-server...)
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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: virtual Windows solution...

[Richard Fish]

On 7/13/06, Jarry <jarry@gmx.net> wrote:
> - to use "Windows emulator" aka Wine (I know, it is NOT emulator)
> - or to use "PC emulator" + Windows installed (like VMware) ???

IME wine still has a lot of stabilty and compatibility issues, at
least for the things software I need to run.  But it get's better all
the time, so you should try it.  Be sure to use the ~arch version, and
you will get new versions of wine within a day or so of them being
released.  One caveat: there have been problems getting wine to build
on the x86_64 hosts.

PC virtualization software (qemu+kqemu, vmware) with windows installed
gives you by far the best compatibility and of those, I find vmware to
be the most complete solution.  I highly recommend this! One
possibility here is to use a trial version of workstation to create
your virtual machine, and then use the free vmware-player to run it.

The only really serious problem I've had with vmware is that it has
trouble keeping track of time on some systems (laptops).  There are
(ugly) workarounds for this, so let me know if you run into this.

-Richard
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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: virtual Windows solution...

[Daniel Iliev]

Richard Fish wrote:
> On 7/13/06, Jarry <jarry@gmx.net> wrote:
>> - to use "Windows emulator" aka Wine (I know, it is NOT emulator)
>> - or to use "PC emulator" + Windows installed (like VMware) ???
> 
> IME wine still has a lot of stabilty and compatibility issues, at
> least for the things software I need to run.  But it get's better all
> the time, so you should try it.  Be sure to use the ~arch version, and
> you will get new versions of wine within a day or so of them being
> released.  One caveat: there have been problems getting wine to build
> on the x86_64 hosts.
> 
> PC virtualization software (qemu+kqemu, vmware) with windows installed
> gives you by far the best compatibility and of those, I find vmware to
> be the most complete solution.  I highly recommend this! One
> possibility here is to use a trial version of workstation to create
> your virtual machine, and then use the free vmware-player to run it.
> 
> The only really serious problem I've had with vmware is that it has
> trouble keeping track of time on some systems (laptops).  There are
> (ugly) workarounds for this, so let me know if you run into this.
> 
> -Richard

I absolutely agree! I was going to write the same but Mr. Richard Fish
was faster! ;-)
Additionally known to me there are
*CrossOver office*
commercial product,
site http://www.codeweavers.com/ )
 and
 *Cedega*
commercial product, site: http://www.transgaming.com/

AFAIK both of these are based on wine, but they are specialized
respectively in running (MS) Office applications and games.


The solution with the trial version & the free player of vmware is just
great! It never occurred to me so I'm using qemu. No doubt VMWare is the
best but it costs (much) money.

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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: virtual Windows solution...

[Rumen Yotov]

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Jarry wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I still can not get rid completely of MS-Windows, because I am
> forced to use some MS-Windows programs. So I am looking for some
> "virtual" solution, which I could use with my gentoo-workstation.
> 
> Now my question is, what is generaly a better solution
> (stability, compatibility, hardware requirements point of view):
> 
> - to use "Windows emulator" aka Wine (I know, it is NOT emulator)
> - or to use "PC emulator" + Windows installed (like VMware) ???
> 
> Up to now I did not test any of them, so could someone please
> be so kind and summarise his/her experience, ev. compare those
> solutions?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jarry
> 
> (BTW, just yesterday VMware released a free vmware-server...)
Hi,
Try qemu+kqemu - both are in Portage.
Rumen

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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: virtual Windows solution...

[Peter Ruskin]

On Thursday 13 July 2006 18:05, Daniel Iliev wrote:
> Richard Fish wrote:
> > On 7/13/06, Jarry <jarry@gmx.net> wrote:
> >> - to use "Windows emulator" aka Wine (I know, it is NOT
> >> emulator) - or to use "PC emulator" + Windows installed (like
> >> VMware) ???
> >
> >
> > PC virtualization software (qemu+kqemu, vmware) with windows
> > installed gives you by far the best compatibility and of those,
> > I find vmware to be the most complete solution.  I highly
> > recommend this! One possibility here is to use a trial version
> > of workstation to create your virtual machine, and then use the
> > free vmware-player to run it.
> >
>
> I absolutely agree! I was going to write the same but Mr. Richard
> Fish was faster! ;-)
> Additionally known to me there are
> *CrossOver office*
> commercial product,
> site http://www.codeweavers.com/ )
>  and
>  *Cedega*
> commercial product, site: http://www.transgaming.com/
>
> AFAIK both of these are based on wine, but they are specialized
> respectively in running (MS) Office applications and games.
>
>
> The solution with the trial version & the free player of vmware
> is just great! It never occurred to me so I'm using qemu. No
> doubt VMWare is the best but it costs (much) money.
>
The free vmware-player will unfortunately refuse to work if you have 
more than one processor.

Win4LinPro works pretty well (win4lin.com), is cheaper than vmware, 
but nonetheless pricy.

Parallels Workstation (parallels.com) is much more reasonably 
priced, but won't work with kernel 2.6.17.

-- 
Peter
========================================================================
Gentoo Linux: Portage 2.1-r1.		kernel-2.6.17-gentoo-r1.
2006 x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64.		gcc(GCC): 3.4.6.
KDE: 3.5.2.				Qt: 3.3.6.
========================================================================
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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: virtual Windows solution...

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Peter Ruskin wrote:
> The free vmware-player will unfortunately refuse to work if you have 
> more than one processor.
> 
> Win4LinPro works pretty well (win4lin.com), is cheaper than vmware, 
> but nonetheless pricy.
> 
> Parallels Workstation (parallels.com) is much more reasonably 
> priced, but won't work with kernel 2.6.17.

vmware-server is free, but only in the vmware overlay at present.

Thanks,
Donnie


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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: virtual Windows solution...

[Alexander Skwar]

Daniel Iliev schrieb:

> The solution with the trial version & the free player of vmware is just
> great! It never occurred to me so I'm using qemu. No doubt VMWare is the
> best but it costs (much) money.

No, "VMware" doesn't cost money. Only VMware Workstation costs
a bit of money (~250,- $) and ESX Server is very expensive. But
VMware Server and VMware Player are for free.


Alexander Skwar
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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: virtual Windows solution...

[Jarry]

Alexander Skwar wrote:

> No, "VMware" doesn't cost money. Only VMware Workstation costs
> a bit of money (~250,- $) and ESX Server is very expensive. But
> VMware Server and VMware Player are for free.

Thanks for all answers...
BTW, what's the difference between all those vmware-versions?

Jarry
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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: virtual Windows solution...

[Alexander Skwar]

Jarry schrieb:
> Alexander Skwar wrote:
> 
>> No, "VMware" doesn't cost money. Only VMware Workstation costs
>> a bit of money (~250,- $) and ESX Server is very expensive. But
>> VMware Server and VMware Player are for free.
> 
> Thanks for all answers...
> BTW, what's the difference between all those vmware-versions?

VMware Player: It "plays" a vmware configuration. Doesn't allow
to change the configuration. To do so, you need VMware Server
or VMware Workstation.
VMware Server: Free (beer) product from VMware, which allows the
configuration of VMware systems. It also allows to play vmware
configurations.
VMware Workstation: A better VMware Server. Some memory optimizations
and it allows multiple "snapshot" points in a vmware image. ~250 $, IIRC.
VMware ESX Server: High end solution for clustered physical hardware,
allowing to provide *zero* downtime services. Costs *BIG* bucks!

Alexander Skwar
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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: [OT: JOKE]virtual Windows solution...

[Daniel Iliev]

Jarry wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I still can not get rid completely of MS-Windows, because I am
> forced to use some MS-Windows programs. So I am looking for some
> "virtual" solution, which I could use with my gentoo-workstation.
> 
> Now my question is, what is generaly a better solution
> (stability, compatibility, hardware requirements point of view):
> 
> - to use "Windows emulator" aka Wine (I know, it is NOT emulator)
> - or to use "PC emulator" + Windows installed (like VMware) ???
> 
> Up to now I did not test any of them, so could someone please
> be so kind and summarise his/her experience, ev. compare those
> solutions?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jarry
> 
> (BTW, just yesterday VMware released a free vmware-server...)

As shown in the topic this reply is a joke, of course but, for the sake
of theory, one could take the opposite way: install Windows to run a
real operating system under it.

And there is a FREE solution from Micro$oft:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx

"Free" and "MS" in one sentence! Yeah, it's my day! :)


Hope this joke won't make anyone "turn to the dark side"

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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: [OT: JOKE]virtual Windows solution...

[Daniel Iliev]

Nico Schümann wrote:

> Actually, I'd never do dirty things like these. But I really don't
> know how the performance would be. I think, the host sets the
> performance limits. And if the host is kina trash (M$), then there is
> no use of it.
> By the way, I recently read about Vanderpool and Windows. Windows
> works fine under SUSE. I think, if I ever got a new machine, my
> processor would have this nice bunch of Vanderpool features to run
> Windows. I actually don't use Windows. I *do* hate Windows. But how
> about telling people: "This is linux. It's that nice - it can run
> trash" (pointing at the Windows window) "without performance loss." I
> think, that's it.

LOL

Linux can run trash even now. The funniest thing is that *trashers*
don't know it and they think windows is irreplaceable for great many
programs but that's not true...at least not any more.

One of the most popular false beliefs is "linux can't run games".

Several months ago a friend of mine came to my place and showed me he
had just bought himself "Quake-4". He was paying tributes to Windows and
was explaining me how "he was going play, while I could only sit and
watch with my linux".
OK, I knew the guys from ID Software had promised a linux version soon
after the general release, but I was nicely surprised when I found that
not only ID Software had kept their promise, but also the guys from
gentoo had it in the portage!
Well, the installation was "windows-easy" and I showed my friend Quake-4
under linux on a machine which I doubt is capable of even starting this
game under Windows.

More recently I was glad to rain on his parade again. This time the game
in question was Heroes-4. Well, Heroes-4 was tricky. I had to compile
cedega and it wasn't quite easy, but after all I was glad to send
several screen shots to my friend.
Heroes is deleted already but I'm afraid to touch cedega, because I
don't want to go through compiling from cvs again. It was quite painful.



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Daniel

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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: virtual Windows solution...

[Anthony E. Caudel]

Peter Ruskin wrote:

> The free vmware-player will unfortunately refuse to work if you have 
> more than one processor.

Not True.  Vmware-player works fine on my AMD 64x2 dual core processor.
You do however have to configure it as a single processor.

Tony

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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: [OT: JOKE]virtual Windows solution...

[Nico Schümann]

2006/7/14, Daniel Iliev <danny@ilievnet.com>:
> Linux can run trash even now. The funniest thing is that *trashers*
> don't know it and they think windows is irreplaceable for great many
> programs but that's not true...at least not any more.

And so I don't use windows. The only thing I miss is the perfect ICQ
client. GAIM is nice, but I'm a bit tired of the away message issue.
They just don't get it work. Kopete, well, they have a broken file
transfer thing. And file transfers are more important for me than just
showing people a bit of text. And I like CenterICQ. I have a linux box
(I have tree linux boxes - all my boxes run linux (you know, I can't
stand windows) except my notebook, but the ACPI support just sucks. I
know, Linus. The ACPI designers are monkeys on drugs. We all know.)
which I want to connect to wherever I am. And I want to run ICQ
wherever I am. And I can't install VNC clients or nx-clients wherever
I am. So I just run ssh or PuTTY. And it works. I just miss things
like file transfers.

> One of the most popular false beliefs is "linux can't run games".

I don't play computer games. But if someone sais this (and this
happens from time to time), I run Nexuiz or Quake4-Demo or stuff. And
everytime I show people: "Hey, you don't need windows to play games.
And you see, this is an old box (PIII, 550MHz; AMD, 800MHz) which just
runs this games without any problems". And then they are a bit
impressed.

Another thing:
My scanner is connected to my father's computer. I personally don't
have a scanner and I don't need it. Well, I scanned a picture with
highest quality, which resulted in a 20MiB JPEG. I tried twice to open
it with Windows (2,6GHz, 1GB RAM) and both times the machine just
crashed. Then I went to my linux box, ran GIMP and everything was
fine. And actually, GIMP used 30% of my RAM.
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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: [OT: JOKE]virtual Windows solution...

[jarry]

"Nico Schümann" <nico.schuemann@googlemail.com> wrote:

> > One of the most popular false beliefs is "linux can't run games".
> 
> I don't play computer games. But if someone sais this (and this
> happens from time to time), I run Nexuiz or Quake4-Demo or stuff. And
> everytime I show people: "Hey, you don't need windows to play games.

Linux can run *certain* games. And sure will not run others.
If a game is opengl-based (e.g. q4 or unreal/warfare engine)
or has both opengl and directx version,it is at least possible
to make a linux port.

But a lot of today's games are directx-exclusive, and the amount
of them is rising. I doubt such games will ever have native linux
port, because to re-code directx-game to opengl would actually mean
to make a completely different game. Costs for such a development
would not been refunded by linux game-buyers. At least not now.
That might change only if linux community markedly expands...

Jarry

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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: [OT: ICQ]

[Todor Pirov]

On Friday 14 July 2006 12:24, Nico Schümann wrote:
> The only thing I miss is the perfect ICQ
> client.

Sorry for letting the thread go faraway of the original topic but IMHO 
net-im/sim is very close to the term "perfect ICQ client".

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Re: [gentoo-user] <OT>: [OT: JOKE]virtual Windows solution...

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Daniel Iliev <danny@ilievnet.com> wrote:

<snip>

> As shown in the topic this reply is a joke, of course but, for the sake
> of theory, one could take the opposite way: install Windows to run a
> real operating system under it.

if you intend to run Linux under win32, I suggest CoLinux. 
It should also run Linux under Linux, but last time I tried, it did
not work yet (yes, quite a while ago).


cu
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