[gentoo-user] What is the point of baloo?

[gentoo-user] What is the point of baloo?

[Wols Lists]

It always annoys me, but baloo seems to be being an absolute nightmare 
at the moment.

Iirc, it's "the file indexer for KDE" - in other words it knackers your 
response time reading all the files, wastes disk space building an 
index, and all for what?

So that programs you never use can a bit faster? What the hell is the 
point of shaving 10% of a run time of no seconds at all?

I tried to kill it and it appears to have just restarted. Is there a use 
flag I can use to just get rid of it completely?

What I find really frustrating is it claims to have been "built for 
speed". If it's streaming the contents of disk into ram so it can index 
it, it's going to completely knacker your system response whatever 
(especially if a program I WANT running is trying to do the same thing!)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] What is the point of baloo?

[Mark Knecht]

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On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 10:46 AM Wols Lists <antlists@youngman.org.uk>
wrote:
>
> It always annoys me, but baloo seems to be being an absolute nightmare
> at the moment.
>
> Iirc, it's "the file indexer for KDE" - in other words it knackers your
> response time reading all the files, wastes disk space building an
> index, and all for what?
>
> So that programs you never use can a bit faster? What the hell is the
> point of shaving 10% of a run time of no seconds at all?
>
> I tried to kill it and it appears to have just restarted. Is there a use
> flag I can use to just get rid of it completely?
>
> What I find really frustrating is it claims to have been "built for
> speed". If it's streaming the contents of disk into ram so it can index
> it, it's going to completely knacker your system response whatever
> (especially if a program I WANT running is trying to do the same thing!)
>
> Cheers,
> Wol

In KDE System Settings search for baloo, select file search and turn off
indexing?

I turned it off years ago due to this sort of issue, as well as others.

sudo updatedb and locate are my friends. Very fast, zero overhead as best I
can tell

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Re: [gentoo-user] What is the point of baloo?

[Michael]

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On Sunday, 17 September 2023 18:53:33 BST Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 10:46 AM Wols Lists <antlists@youngman.org.uk>
> 
> wrote:
> > It always annoys me, but baloo seems to be being an absolute nightmare
> > at the moment.
> > 
> > Iirc, it's "the file indexer for KDE" - in other words it knackers your
> > response time reading all the files, wastes disk space building an
> > index, and all for what?
> > 
> > So that programs you never use can a bit faster? What the hell is the
> > point of shaving 10% of a run time of no seconds at all?
> > 
> > I tried to kill it and it appears to have just restarted. Is there a use
> > flag I can use to just get rid of it completely?
> > 
> > What I find really frustrating is it claims to have been "built for
> > speed". If it's streaming the contents of disk into ram so it can index
> > it, it's going to completely knacker your system response whatever
> > (especially if a program I WANT running is trying to do the same thing!)
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Wol
> 
> In KDE System Settings search for baloo, select file search and turn off
> indexing?
> 
> I turned it off years ago due to this sort of issue, as well as others.
> 
> sudo updatedb and locate are my friends. Very fast, zero overhead as best I
> can tell

balooctl status
balooctl disable

and if you want to get rid of the existing indexed database, then:

balooctl purge

However, unlike locate, baloo is meant to index not just file names, but also 
metadata tags and relationships relevant to files, emails and contacts. Its 
devs would argue it has a small footprint.  So it is meant to be *more* than a 
simple file name indexer.

Once you disable it, its status will show:

$ balooctl status
Baloo is currently disabled. To enable, please run balooctl enable

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Re: [gentoo-user] What is the point of baloo?

[Wols Lists]

On 17/09/2023 19:37, Michael wrote:
> However, unlike locate, baloo is meant to index not just file names, but also
> metadata tags and relationships relevant to files, emails and contacts. Its
> devs would argue it has a small footprint.  So it is meant to be*more*  than a
> simple file name indexer.

But what is the POINT of said index? If there's no point it's just a 
total and complete waste of time and space!

So, far the only point I'm aware of is it is supposed to make kmail run 
faster - an application I've never used.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] What is the point of baloo?

[Jack]

On 9/17/23 15:06, Wols Lists wrote:
> On 17/09/2023 19:37, Michael wrote:
>> However, unlike locate, baloo is meant to index not just file names, 
>> but also
>> metadata tags and relationships relevant to files, emails and 
>> contacts. Its
>> devs would argue it has a small footprint.  So it is meant to 
>> be*more*  than a
>> simple file name indexer.
>
> But what is the POINT of said index? If there's no point it's just a 
> total and complete waste of time and space!
>
> So, far the only point I'm aware of is it is supposed to make kmail 
> run faster - an application I've never used.

While I've also always had KDE indexing turned off, baloo and associated 
"stuff" allows searching through all your files (or a configurable 
subset) not just mail.  It lets you find something you know you have but 
forgot where you stashed it.  Also, I'm pretty sure that that high load 
is only until baloo finishes one complete pass through all the files 
it's been told to (or allowed to) index.  After that, it only needs to 
index new or changed stuff.  I also believe there is a way to limit how 
much cpu it uses, but I have no idea how, since I (like you and many 
others) prefer to limit it to 0.

You would probably get a better discussion, including at least some 
reasonable defense of baloo, posting on discuss.kde.org (their current 
forum system.)  One recent example I did see there is that baloo (with 
appropriate configuration) can let you see height and width of image 
files in dolphin (the file manager.) No, I don't have any need for that 
either, but I can see some users liking it.

One thing to keep in mind, I don't think folks like us (Gentoo users in 
general) are really the primary target of KDE.  I suspect they are 
(among other things) trying to produce a system that will attract users 
from "that other OS" who may take things like poor performance but full 
indexing for granted.

Jack

Re: [gentoo-user] What is the point of baloo?

[Michael]

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On Sunday, 17 September 2023 20:19:55 BST Jack wrote:
> On 9/17/23 15:06, Wols Lists wrote:
> > On 17/09/2023 19:37, Michael wrote:
> >> However, unlike locate, baloo is meant to index not just file names,
> >> but also
> >> metadata tags and relationships relevant to files, emails and
> >> contacts. Its
> >> devs would argue it has a small footprint.  So it is meant to
> >> be*more*  than a
> >> simple file name indexer.
> > 
> > But what is the POINT of said index? If there's no point it's just a
> > total and complete waste of time and space!
> > 
> > So, far the only point I'm aware of is it is supposed to make kmail
> > run faster - an application I've never used.
> 
> While I've also always had KDE indexing turned off, baloo and associated
> "stuff" allows searching through all your files (or a configurable
> subset) not just mail.  It lets you find something you know you have but
> forgot where you stashed it.  Also, I'm pretty sure that that high load
> is only until baloo finishes one complete pass through all the files
> it's been told to (or allowed to) index.  After that, it only needs to
> index new or changed stuff.  I also believe there is a way to limit how
> much cpu it uses, but I have no idea how, since I (like you and many
> others) prefer to limit it to 0.
> 
> You would probably get a better discussion, including at least some
> reasonable defense of baloo, posting on discuss.kde.org (their current
> forum system.)  One recent example I did see there is that baloo (with
> appropriate configuration) can let you see height and width of image
> files in dolphin (the file manager.) No, I don't have any need for that
> either, but I can see some users liking it.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind, I don't think folks like us (Gentoo users in
> general) are really the primary target of KDE.  I suspect they are
> (among other things) trying to produce a system that will attract users
> from "that other OS" who may take things like poor performance but full
> indexing for granted.
> 
> Jack

Yes, Baloo is meant to facilitate complicated and vague searches for e.g., 
some pdf or was it a png file file I received perhaps around 2 years ago, from 
one of my contacts among work associates, which I transferred from my phone to 
my PC over bluetooth.

It will also index objects soon after their creation, rather than wait for 
some cronjob to kick in once a day.

However, if you have no such use case, then it is relatively easy for Gentoo 
users to disable semantic-desktop and/or disable baloo.

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Re: [gentoo-user] What is the point of baloo?

[Peter Böhm]

Am Sonntag, 17. September 2023, 19:46:05 CEST schrieb Wols Lists:

> It always annoys me, but baloo seems to be being an absolute nightmare
> at the moment.

> I tried to kill it and it appears to have just restarted. Is there a use
> flag I can use to just get rid of it completely?

Do you mean use-flag "semantic-desktop" ?

(I have disabled it in my make.conf)

Reagrds,
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] What is the point of baloo?

[Wols Lists]

On 17/09/2023 19:35, Peter Böhm wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 17. September 2023, 19:46:05 CEST schrieb Wols Lists:
> 
>> It always annoys me, but baloo seems to be being an absolute nightmare
>> at the moment.
> 
>> I tried to kill it and it appears to have just restarted. Is there a use
>> flag I can use to just get rid of it completely?
> 
> Do you mean use-flag "semantic-desktop" ?
> 
> (I have disabled it in my make.conf)
> 
I guess I do. I've just disabled indexing as per Mark, and it's reduced 
my load average from 12 "just like that". It's just an absolute pain in 
the arse given that about the only KDE app I actually use is Konqueror.

But yes, I'll set -semantic-desktop in make.conf.

Why does all this crap default to "I'll waste as much of your computer 
time as I can, and I won't tell you what I'm doing, or how to benefit 
from it"?

In turning off indexing, I notice there's also plasma search. But I 
haven't got a clue what all those widgets do. So I click on the "info" 
button and I just get the description AGAIN. What's the point of all 
this crap, if they can't be arsed to tell you what it DOES!?!?

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] What is the point of baloo?

[Mark Knecht]

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On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 12:04 PM Wols Lists <antlists@youngman.org.uk>
wrote:
>
> On 17/09/2023 19:35, Peter Böhm wrote:
> > Am Sonntag, 17. September 2023, 19:46:05 CEST schrieb Wols Lists:
> >
> >> It always annoys me, but baloo seems to be being an absolute nightmare
> >> at the moment.
> >
> >> I tried to kill it and it appears to have just restarted. Is there a
use
> >> flag I can use to just get rid of it completely?
> >
> > Do you mean use-flag "semantic-desktop" ?
> >
> > (I have disabled it in my make.conf)
> >
> I guess I do. I've just disabled indexing as per Mark, and it's reduced
> my load average from 12 "just like that". It's just an absolute pain in
> the arse given that about the only KDE app I actually use is Konqueror.
>
> But yes, I'll set -semantic-desktop in make.conf.
>
> Why does all this crap default to "I'll waste as much of your computer
> time as I can, and I won't tell you what I'm doing, or how to benefit
> from it"?
>
> In turning off indexing, I notice there's also plasma search. But I
> haven't got a clue what all those widgets do. So I click on the "info"
> button and I just get the description AGAIN. What's the point of all
> this crap, if they can't be arsed to tell you what it DOES!?!?
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>

I do agree, and for a user like me primarily on Kubuntu I cannot
easily get away from having it on the machine so I'm happy to
just be able to turn it off.

As for documentation, it's horribly out-of-date and it's probably
the biggest negative about using Open Source as no one really
wants to write it, and most users don't read it anyway.

I feel ya!

- Mark

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