From: Joost Roeleveld <joost@antarean.org>
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] udev + /usr
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 09:25:15 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <1774445.5FZghbAy0d@eve> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiApK7C9puYriTJPbXkdCY0RKOw9mzJ-yqy4p+Hr-g1jrQ@mail.gmail.com>
On Monday, September 12, 2011 04:07:46 PM Michael Mol wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Michael Schreckenbauer <grimlog@gmx.de>
wrote:
> > On Monday, 12. September 2011 15:18:53 Michael Mol wrote:
> >> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Michael Schreckenbauer
> >> <grimlog@gmx.de>
> >
> > wrote:
> >> > On Monday, 12. September 2011 14:37:24 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> >> >> No fixable, in reality. The flexibility of udev is in part in
> >> >> that the userspace can (and actually do) run arbitrary scripts
> >> >> and binaries from udev rules. You can "fix" the ones that
> >> >> require binaries in /usr *NOW*, but not forever, unless you
> >> >> forbid the use of arbitrary binaries from udev rules.
> >> >
> >> > Why do you need to run arbitrary scripts to mount /usr?
> >>
> >> It's not specifically that you need to run arbitrary scripts to mount
> >> /usr. It's that it's unknown that /usr must be mounted before some
> >> hotplug events are handled.
> >
> > Claiming "this is not fixable... unless you forbid the use of arbitrary
> > binaries from udev rules" implies, that you need to run arbitrary
> > scripts to mount /usr.
>
> No, it states that it's not solveable for the broadest set of cases (I
> hesitate to say 'universally') unless you can run arbitrary scripts
> which may be in /usr.
>
> Consider it possible that nfsd is needed to mount /usr. The
> credentials needed for NFS to connect to the server are on an
> encrypted partition. The key for decrypting that partition is stored
> on a USB flash drive. The USB flash drive is formatted using a very
> recent version of NTFS. FUSE is necessary to read that flash drive's
> filesystem.
>
> In this scenario, the NFS binaries and FUSE binaries are located under /usr.
Since when does NFS need credentials to connect to the server? :)
also, why use NTFS on a flash-drive storing the keys, this is simply an
example of someone trying to be clever and being far too lazy to properly
implement it.
It should fail and the error message should read: "PEBKAC" (Problem Exists
Between Keyboard And Chair)
> It's this kind of scenario that falls under the general class that
> udev's trying to solve. If I understand it properly, the mentality is,
> "I can't forsee what distros and sysadmins will want to do, I get bug
> reports when peoples' configurations fail because they were trying to
> load things from unmounted filesystems, so if I say the filesystem
> *must* be mounted (or they must use an initramfs) in order to use
> udev, those bug reports will solve themselves."
In other words, this dev has a god-complex and feels he should fix all that is
wrong in this world.
He should do his job and fix his error-reporting and documentation to specify
that EITHER the people demanding this ensure the scripts run by udev will work
with only "/" mounted or ensure all other required partitions are mounted by
init*.
Not force all partitions to be available when "init" starts.
> > Otherwise a fix would be to mount /usr with whatever is needed to
> > do this and then run the arbitrary scripts. Sadly udev does not support
> > this.
> Which requires some kind of dependency or retry scheme, which adds
> complexity to udev that the Fedora dev decided he didn't want to spend
> the time on.
Fixing the docs and error-reporting is the logical and least invasive option.
--
Joost
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-09-13 7:26 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 254+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-09-12 15:02 [gentoo-user] udev + /usr Alan Mackenzie
2011-09-12 15:33 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-12 17:17 ` Alan Mackenzie
2011-09-12 17:39 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-12 18:08 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-12 18:37 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-12 19:00 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-12 19:35 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-12 19:52 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-12 20:24 ` Alex Schuster
2011-09-13 7:08 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-12 20:31 ` Alan Mackenzie
2011-09-13 3:18 ` Peter Humphrey
2011-09-13 7:15 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-13 7:01 ` Paul Colquhoun
2011-09-13 18:15 ` Dale
2011-09-12 20:16 ` David W Noon
2011-09-12 19:07 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-12 19:18 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-12 19:41 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-12 20:07 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-12 20:57 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-12 22:00 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-12 23:31 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-13 7:28 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-13 8:52 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-12 21:14 ` Pandu Poluan
2011-09-13 2:07 ` Walter Dnes
2011-09-13 7:25 ` Joost Roeleveld [this message]
2011-09-12 19:56 ` Dale
2011-09-13 3:28 ` Walter Dnes
2011-09-13 7:04 ` Neil Bothwick
2011-09-13 15:21 ` Walter Dnes
2011-09-13 15:38 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-13 15:49 ` Neil Bothwick
2011-09-13 16:56 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-12 17:50 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-13 14:40 ` Alan Mackenzie
2011-09-13 14:55 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-13 15:38 ` Alan Mackenzie
2011-09-13 16:14 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-13 20:35 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-13 20:52 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-13 20:57 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-13 21:10 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-13 21:30 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-13 21:53 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-13 22:10 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-13 22:33 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-14 5:52 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-14 14:30 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-14 18:36 ` Dale
2011-09-14 18:55 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-14 23:06 ` William Kenworthy
2011-09-15 0:00 ` Dale
2011-09-15 20:42 ` Mike Edenfield
2011-09-15 21:01 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-15 21:16 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-15 21:28 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-15 22:05 ` Mike Edenfield
2011-09-15 22:26 ` Mark Knecht
2011-09-15 22:44 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-16 8:46 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-16 10:00 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-16 10:54 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-16 13:03 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-15 7:01 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-15 13:47 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-15 14:11 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-15 14:32 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-15 14:48 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-15 14:58 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-15 17:43 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-15 21:25 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-15 21:34 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-16 8:54 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-18 7:29 ` Walter Dnes
2011-09-15 15:03 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-15 15:16 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-15 15:37 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-15 15:43 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-15 16:16 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-15 16:37 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-15 15:13 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-15 17:59 ` Mick
2011-09-15 19:04 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-15 19:17 ` Neil Bothwick
2011-09-15 21:30 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-15 21:38 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-16 8:59 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-16 9:29 ` Pandu Poluan
2011-09-16 14:57 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-16 15:57 ` Dale
2011-09-16 16:11 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-16 16:20 ` Mark Knecht
2011-09-16 17:09 ` Dale
2011-09-16 16:21 ` Pandu Poluan
2011-09-17 6:06 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-16 18:45 ` Carlos Hendson
2011-09-19 0:58 ` Walter Dnes
2011-09-15 14:57 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-15 15:08 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-15 15:37 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-15 18:15 ` Neil Bothwick
2011-09-15 21:32 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-15 17:37 ` pk
2011-09-15 21:34 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-15 20:05 ` Sebastian Beßler
2011-09-15 20:27 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-15 20:53 ` Sebastian Beßler
2011-09-15 21:05 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-16 9:08 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-16 14:53 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-17 6:45 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-17 7:04 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-17 14:59 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-17 12:33 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-17 14:50 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-17 15:41 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-17 18:36 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-17 19:24 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-17 21:13 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-18 19:13 ` Neil Bothwick
2011-09-17 23:00 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-17 23:31 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-17 23:45 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-17 23:50 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-18 7:37 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-18 9:23 ` [gentoo-user] [OT rant] " pk
2011-09-18 10:03 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-18 10:44 ` pk
2011-09-18 12:32 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-18 12:56 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-18 16:55 ` pk
2011-09-18 17:41 ` Indi
2011-09-18 18:13 ` pk
2011-09-18 19:08 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-18 20:48 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-20 0:20 ` Walter Dnes
2011-09-20 16:50 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-20 17:10 ` Alex Schuster
2011-09-20 17:28 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-20 17:33 ` Mark Knecht
2011-09-20 17:54 ` Alex Schuster
2011-09-20 17:19 ` Thanasis
2011-09-20 17:30 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-21 16:54 ` Roman Dobosz
2011-09-18 13:19 ` pk
2011-09-18 13:31 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-18 17:43 ` pk
2011-09-18 19:52 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-18 21:06 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-19 19:23 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-19 16:23 ` pk
2011-09-19 16:37 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-19 17:42 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-19 18:02 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-19 19:20 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-19 19:42 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-19 20:44 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-19 22:13 ` Neil Bothwick
2011-09-19 6:21 ` Paul Colquhoun
2011-09-19 16:28 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-18 13:37 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-18 13:58 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-18 21:07 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-19 17:13 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-18 13:15 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-18 13:33 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-22 15:06 ` [gentoo-user] " Michael Orlitzky
2011-09-17 21:03 ` pk
2011-09-17 21:25 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-19 8:30 ` [gentoo-user] " Nicolas Sebrecht
2011-09-19 14:22 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-19 14:41 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-19 16:36 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-19 17:25 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-19 17:43 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-19 17:59 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-19 18:06 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-19 19:12 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-19 20:46 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2011-09-19 21:22 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-20 2:00 ` Indi
2011-09-19 18:28 ` pk
2011-09-20 10:13 ` James Broadhead
2011-09-20 23:12 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-20 23:47 ` Dale
2011-09-21 17:55 ` Mick
2011-09-17 18:43 ` [gentoo-user] " Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-18 14:47 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-18 15:32 ` Pandu Poluan
2011-09-15 20:26 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-14 9:06 ` Neil Bothwick
2011-09-14 14:37 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-14 14:49 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-14 15:36 ` Neil Bothwick
2011-09-14 15:43 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-14 16:05 ` Allan Gottlieb
2011-09-14 16:10 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-14 18:59 ` Neil Bothwick
2011-09-14 22:37 ` Peter Humphrey
2011-09-14 23:43 ` Neil Bothwick
2011-09-14 23:51 ` Peter Humphrey
2011-09-14 15:35 ` Neil Bothwick
2011-09-14 16:07 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-14 16:40 ` Sebastian Beßler
2011-09-15 7:37 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-15 7:26 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-14 10:25 ` Alan Mackenzie
2011-09-14 14:10 ` Mick
2011-09-14 14:19 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-14 14:56 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-14 14:50 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-14 14:47 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-14 15:04 ` Stroller
2011-09-14 21:34 ` Alan Mackenzie
2011-09-14 22:05 ` Really OT now (Re: [gentoo-user] udev + /usr) Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-14 22:35 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-15 18:58 ` IDE for C/C++ (Was: " David W Noon
2011-09-15 19:16 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-15 19:47 ` Leonardo Guilherme
2011-09-15 19:59 ` Chris Brennan
2011-09-15 20:05 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-15 21:39 ` Joost Roeleveld
2011-09-16 0:22 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-16 9:43 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-16 12:30 ` Mike Edenfield
2011-09-16 12:46 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-16 13:10 ` Alan Mackenzie
2011-09-15 21:37 ` Alexander Tanyukevich
2011-09-15 21:38 ` Alexander Tanyukevich
2011-09-15 20:09 ` [gentoo-user] Re: Really OT now (Re: " Nikos Chantziaras
2011-09-15 14:10 ` [gentoo-user] udev + /usr Stroller
2011-09-13 16:24 ` David W Noon
2011-09-13 23:00 ` Mike Edenfield
2011-09-13 12:38 ` Mike Edenfield
2011-09-13 12:45 ` Neil Bothwick
2011-09-13 15:09 ` Stroller
2011-09-13 15:46 ` Neil Bothwick
2011-09-13 23:10 ` Mike Edenfield
2011-09-13 12:59 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-14 20:41 ` pk
2011-09-12 20:45 ` Alan McKinnon
2011-09-12 15:35 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-12 15:59 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-13 7:28 ` Paul Colquhoun
2011-09-12 16:21 ` Dale
2011-09-12 16:42 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-12 16:52 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-12 18:26 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2011-09-12 18:54 ` Michael Schreckenbauer
2011-09-12 16:55 ` Michael Mol
2011-09-12 20:34 ` Alan McKinnon
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