From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1R4US6-0004mR-EI for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 09:11:18 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0A5F921C259; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 09:11:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtpq2.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net (smtpq2.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net [212.54.42.165]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9E6821C1E6 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 09:10:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [212.54.42.134] (helo=smtp3.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq2.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R4UQt-0000ar-Ap for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:10:03 +0200 Received: from 5ed027a1.cm-7-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl ([94.208.39.161] helo=data.antarean.org) by smtp3.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R4UPA-0005TM-DU for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:08:16 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by data.antarean.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 634D5D99 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:08:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at antarean.org Received: from data.antarean.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (data.antarean.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JrvzspTmQs+d for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:08:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from eve.localnet (eve.lan.antarean.org [10.20.13.50]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by data.antarean.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F377CFD for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:08:28 +0200 (CEST) From: Joost Roeleveld To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] udev + /usr Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:08:13 +0200 Message-ID: <1728923.nQPHW4UTlG@eve> User-Agent: KMail/4.7.1 (Linux/2.6.36-gentoo-r5; KDE/4.7.1; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: <20110912150248.GB3599@acm.acm> <4E7265DF.50701@darkmetatron.de> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1R4UPA-0005TM-DU X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=-0.615, vereist 5, BAYES_00 -1.90, KHOP_DYNAMIC 0.73, RDNS_DYNAMIC 0.98, RP_MATCHES_RCVD -0.50, TW_LV 0.08) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: joost@antarean.org X-Spam-Status: No X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: 8230707f245edf3d893665e503325690 On Thursday, September 15, 2011 05:05:00 PM Canek Pel=E1ez Vald=E9s wro= te: > On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Sebastian Be=DFler >=20 > wrote: > > Am 15.09.2011 22:27, schrieb Canek Pel=E1ez Vald=E9s: > >> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Sebastian Be=DFler > >>=20 > >> wrote: > >>> Am 15.09.2011 16:57, schrieb Canek Pel=E1ez Vald=E9s: > >>>> with an initramfs you will be able to do anything, so it will ma= ke > >>>> no > >>>> sense to keep supporting initramfs-less systems. > >>>=20 > >>> With "Microsoft Windows" you will be able to do anything, so it w= ill > >>> make no sense to keep supporting "Microsoft Windows"-less systems= . > >>=20 > >> Irrelevant: see the name on the list? It's called Gentoo Linux. I = know > >> you are trying to be witty, but only shows you are comparing apple= s > >> and oranges. > >=20 > > No, because first it was sarcasm and second it shows that your argu= ment > > is invalid. For near to every X there is some Y that can do what X = can > > do, but there are still many good and valid reasons to have X. So i= t > > will make sense to keep supporting Y-less systems. >=20 > And you conveniently skipped my answer to your last two examples. No > problem, here it goes again: >=20 > "Last time I checked, neither GNOME nor Emacs demanded that Gentoo > developers or users had to write a fork/replacement for a core > component of the system. GNOME and Emacs just need ebuilds and > adapting their configuration to Gentoo-isms. Testing and bug > reporting, as usual. The only code needed is some small patches for > both and around 200 lines of emacslisp for site-gentoo.el." Funny that you mention this. There might be something similar brewing f= or=20 users of Gnome where quite a few low-level parts will end up being mand= atory=20 for Gnome: "...but I'm increasingly seeing talk on the=20 gnome side of the "Gnome OS", to include pulse-audio, systemd, policyki= t,=20 udev/u* (thus forcing lvm as well, at least lvm installation tho nothin= g=20 forces one to use it... yet, since lvm is required for udisks), etc." It's a reply in the gentoo-dev thread I started. Requiring pulse-audio and policykit, I can understand. But requiring a=20= specific init-system for the desktop seems a bit overkill. I'm not a gnome user and am happy with my KDE-desktop. But the same pos= t also=20 mentions KDE seems to be headed in a similar direction. Just slower. Mind you, I do think systemd is nice and usefull on a desktop machine, = but I=20 don't see much need for this on a server where the sysadmins generally = prefer=20 to have a much more detailed control of what is happening. Then again, I don't feel Gnome or KDE have any reason to be installed o= n a=20 server, but that's just how I see it. -- Joost