[gentoo-user] Akonadi loses mails

[gentoo-user] Akonadi loses mails

[Alan McKinnon]

I am about to get on a damn plane to Germany, find me the entire 
collection of KDEPIM devs and shoot every last one of those fuckers 
dead. dead. dead. dead.

Then blow up the repo so this POS will never again see the light of 
day.

I'm trying to migrate away from kdepim. Nothing else out there imports 
KDE folders so I use my usual trick of running a local imap server, 
dragging mail trees into it and when the new mail client is started, 
everything is right there.

Akonadi/kmail2 silently destroys the mail when you attempt this.

I did a few tests, copied small folders, contents of other folders, 
etc and satisfied myself it all worked nicely. Then dragged and 
dropped nice big chunks of mail tree into the IMAP folders. The mails 
appear in the kde view, but THEY ARE NOT ON DISK ANYMORE. What I am 
seeing is the akonadi cache, and sooner or later that will expire.

There was no warning, no dialog, no notification. Just a pile of mail 
disappeared. Akonadi/nepomuk/kmail/virtuoso/soprano/strigi didn't do 
it's usual stunt of observing that my mouse pointer had moved and 
consume 200% of cpu at load 11 for 30 minutes while it reindexed 
everything. It appears to have just chucked 2GB of pim data away.

Need I mention that NOT chucking pim data away is it's primary design 
goal (or should be).

Now finally after 3 years, I understand what all the other ex-KDE 
users are on about - this is a stinking pile of bloatcrap and a 
solution to a problem that actually does not exist.

To say that I'm pissed off is putting it mildly.
Tomorrow morning I will decide if KDE4 itself is to be the next 
casualty.




-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Akonadi loses mails

[Michael Schreckenbauer]

Hi Alan,

Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2011, 22:11:48 schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> I am about to get on a damn plane to Germany, find me the entire
> collection of KDEPIM devs and shoot every last one of those fuckers
> dead. dead. dead. dead.

if you need a place to sleep, you're welcome :)

> Then blow up the repo so this POS will never again see the light of
> day.
> I'm trying to migrate away from kdepim. Nothing else out there imports
> KDE folders

They are maildirs, sort of, aren't they?
~ $  ls .kde4/share/apps/kmail/mail/inbox/new/
{2f2c8b47-dc21-4a7a-a0c4-1f0f6a223264}  {ef61aa1a-f38f-40a7-99b1-6573bb12afa5}

> so I use my usual trick of running a local imap server,
> dragging mail trees into it and when the new mail client is started,
> everything is right there.
> 
> Akonadi/kmail2 silently destroys the mail when you attempt this.

That's really bad...

> I did a few tests, copied small folders, contents of other folders,
> etc and satisfied myself it all worked nicely. Then dragged and
> dropped nice big chunks of mail tree into the IMAP folders. The mails
> appear in the kde view, but THEY ARE NOT ON DISK ANYMORE. What I am
> seeing is the akonadi cache, and sooner or later that will expire.

F..k!

> There was no warning, no dialog, no notification. Just a pile of mail
> disappeared. Akonadi/nepomuk/kmail/virtuoso/soprano/strigi didn't do
> it's usual stunt of observing that my mouse pointer had moved and
> consume 200% of cpu at load 11 for 30 minutes while it reindexed
> everything. It appears to have just chucked 2GB of pim data away.

Check your .xsession-error for SQL-Errors. I had a ton of these and had to 
reconfigure my MySQL-Server to manage the requests it got from 
kmail/akonadi/whatever. Don't remember the details though.

> Need I mention that NOT chucking pim data away is it's primary design
> goal (or should be).
> 
> Now finally after 3 years, I understand what all the other ex-KDE
> users are on about - this is a stinking pile of bloatcrap and a
> solution to a problem that actually does not exist.

I really like kde4. But this PIM-stuff... I don't get it.

> To say that I'm pissed off is putting it mildly.
> Tomorrow morning I will decide if KDE4 itself is to be the next
> casualty.

Good luck,
Michael

Re: [gentoo-user] Akonadi loses mails

[Alex Schuster]

Alan McKinnon writes:

> I am about to get on a damn plane to Germany, find me the entire
> collection of KDEPIM devs and shoot every last one of those fuckers
> dead. dead. dead. dead.

Uh-oh. I hope writing this did not put you on some terror list already.

> Then blow up the repo so this POS will never again see the light of
> day.

Just when I thought this whole akonadification finally starts working.

> I'm trying to migrate away from kdepim. Nothing else out there imports
> KDE folders so I use my usual trick of running a local imap server,
> dragging mail trees into it and when the new mail client is started,
> everything is right there.

Or you could create a 'Maildir' akonadi resource, move your kmail folders in 
there. They should be normal maildir folders, while those KMail-folders are 
a mix of maildirs and mbox stuff.

> Akonadi/kmail2 silently destroys the mail when you attempt this.
> 
> I did a few tests, copied small folders, contents of other folders,
> etc and satisfied myself it all worked nicely. Then dragged and
> dropped nice big chunks of mail tree into the IMAP folders. The mails
> appear in the kde view, but THEY ARE NOT ON DISK ANYMORE. What I am
> seeing is the akonadi cache, and sooner or later that will expire.

Ouch. OUCH!

Um, I assume you know they are really gone? And not just in another 
location, like, in ~/.local instead of ~/.kde4/share/apps/kmail where you 
expect them?

> There was no warning, no dialog, no notification. Just a pile of mail
> disappeared. Akonadi/nepomuk/kmail/virtuoso/soprano/strigi didn't do
> it's usual stunt of observing that my mouse pointer had moved and
> consume 200% of cpu at load 11 for 30 minutes while it reindexed
> everything. It appears to have just chucked 2GB of pim data away.
> 
> Need I mention that NOT chucking pim data away is it's primary design
> goal (or should be).
> 
> Now finally after 3 years, I understand what all the other ex-KDE
> users are on about - this is a stinking pile of bloatcrap and a
> solution to a problem that actually does not exist.
> 
> To say that I'm pissed off is putting it mildly.
> Tomorrow morning I will decide if KDE4 itself is to be the next
> casualty.

I feel with you. I really do.

I was very short of dropping most of KDE4 because of the lot of problems I 
have with this. Instead of ranting here, which I already did a lot, I moved 
to the KDE mailing list and by now wrote some 50 postings there, describing 
all the weird stuff that is getting on here. When I was unable to log into 
KDE (again!), I already tried e17, but wasn't to satisfied either. I decided 
to wait for 4.7, and some things became better. So I stayed.

And I don't know what to use else. I'm using the plain shell for many 
things, and refused to try KDE for a long time, because I feared of nasty 
effects that indeed happened from time to time. Like, not being able to log 
in. Or the problem that the KDE password dialog no longer accepted my 
passwords  I could not even unlock my wallet, nothing worked.

But on the other hand, an integrated desktop environment is a nice thing. 
Consistent look, the same file dialog for most applications, a wallet (very 
handy when it works), graphical handling of multimedia files whcih works 
better than with mc. KWin is a great window manager, with many features that 
most others do not have, and very customizable. I like my desktop very much, 
it is beautiful, setting this up again in another environment would be a 
pain. So I just stay and hope things will eventually become better. I'm 
doing this for over two years now, it was a mistake to make the switch from 
KDE 3.5 so early, but I just did not expect the transition to be so long. 
And now I cannot go back.

Will you report this on bugs.kde.org, or write to the KDE list? If not, I 
would forward the essential part of your mail, because the guys there should 
know what's happening. Losing mails is intolerable. I'm glad I am using IMAP 
for most mails, so messing up things locally will not make me lose them. Uh, 
I hope.

I have a bunch of local mails which I still cannot access. I have to create 
a Maildir resource pointing to that directory, but this will not make them 
show up. I was told that I have to create a message in each folder to make 
them show up. This worked, but when I was nearly done (this takes quite a 
while with > 10.000 mails), one folder started firing hundreds of 
notifications about a missing folder. So I stopped this, and decided to try 
some time again. The mails are not important, and when I need them, there's 
always mutt.

I have a log where I note strange things and bugs happening with KDE4. And 
nearly every day I have to add something there. My personal favorite at the 
moment is the fact that whenever I start a Konqueror and open a URL, 
LibreOffice starts, too. I have no idea why this is.
We all made jokes when Windows 95 came out, about its 'General Protection 
Fault' errors, but it's absolutely intolerable how often things crash with 
KDE4. At least for me, there are other users who do not experience any 
crashes. I think in my case the causes are that:
1) I have a complex setup. Many virtual desktops, terminals grouped to 
Dolphin file managers, having multiple tabs which two panes each. Lots of 
running applications. Many different things I do. And the new KDEPIM 4.7.
2) I am one seriously unlucky guy. We found this out on the KDE list.

I used to backup my .kde4 directory regularly, at least before I saved the 
desktop session because that often does not work. Nowadays, with stuff being 
on other locations, too, I just back up ~/.*. This has saved me a lot of 
trouble in the past.

	Wonko

[gentoo-user] Akonadi loses mails

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wed 24 August 2011 22:53:09 Michael Schreckenbauer did opine 
thusly:
> Hi Alan,
> 
> Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2011, 22:11:48 schrieb Alan McKinnon:

[snip]

> > I'm trying to migrate away from kdepim. Nothing else out there
> > imports KDE folders
> 
> They are maildirs, sort of, aren't they?
> ~ $  ls .kde4/share/apps/kmail/mail/inbox/new/
> {2f2c8b47-dc21-4a7a-a0c4-1f0f6a223264} 
> {ef61aa1a-f38f-40a7-99b1-6573bb12afa5}

Yes, after a fashion. It's my understanding that there are multiple 
implementations of maildir, all different, except that they have 
directories that map to mail folders, and files that map to emails. 
The actual structure varies a lot, and the only real "standard" is how 
qmail did it originally


[snip]

> > There was no warning, no dialog, no notification. Just a pile of
> > mail disappeared. Akonadi/nepomuk/kmail/virtuoso/soprano/strigi
> > didn't do it's usual stunt of observing that my mouse pointer
> > had moved and consume 200% of cpu at load 11 for 30 minutes
> > while it reindexed everything. It appears to have just chucked
> > 2GB of pim data away.
> Check your .xsession-error for SQL-Errors. I had a ton of these and
> had to reconfigure my MySQL-Server to manage the requests it got
> from kmail/akonadi/whatever. Don't remember the details though.

I did check there, and a few other places too such as enabling mail-
related stuff in kdeugdialog and observing console output. I found 
nothing that seemed relevant.

> > Need I mention that NOT chucking pim data away is it's primary
> > design goal (or should be).
> > 
> > Now finally after 3 years, I understand what all the other
> > ex-KDE
> > users are on about - this is a stinking pile of bloatcrap and a
> > solution to a problem that actually does not exist.
> 
> I really like kde4. But this PIM-stuff... I don't get it.

Let's not talk about the complete lack of any findable documentation.
The Nagios stuff is in better shape...


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Akonadi loses mails

[Mick]

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On Wednesday 24 Aug 2011 21:53:09 Michael Schreckenbauer wrote:

> Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2011, 22:11:48 schrieb Alan McKinnon:

> > Then blow up the repo so this POS will never again see the light of
> > day.
> > I'm trying to migrate away from kdepim. Nothing else out there imports
> > KDE folders
> 
> They are maildirs, sort of, aren't they?
> ~ $  ls .kde4/share/apps/kmail/mail/inbox/new/
> {2f2c8b47-dc21-4a7a-a0c4-1f0f6a223264} 
> {ef61aa1a-f38f-40a7-99b1-6573bb12afa5}

Are you sure that these maildirs cannot be accessed exactly as/where they are 
with other mail clients that read maildir?  I have had no problem accessing 
and reading mine with mutt.

Also, you have the Folder/Archive Folder command on the menu - would that help 
you to access messages with another mail client?


> > so I use my usual trick of running a local imap server,
> > dragging mail trees into it and when the new mail client is started,
> > everything is right there.
> > 
> > Akonadi/kmail2 silently destroys the mail when you attempt this.
> 
> That's really bad...

If it really does this .... then it is worse than just "bad"!  O_O

However, the sync of your offline mail folders with IMAP may be happening in 
two steps:

1. When I send a message from Kmail it immediately shows up in my local sent-
mail folder.

2. If I sync with the IMAP server the message disappears from the local  
folder!  OK, no need to panic now ... although I'm getting nervous.

3. Sync again and the message now shows up again in my local folder.  Phew!


Could this be happening with your local IMAP set up too and you haven't really 
lost your messages?


> > I did a few tests, copied small folders, contents of other folders,
> > etc and satisfied myself it all worked nicely. Then dragged and
> > dropped nice big chunks of mail tree into the IMAP folders. The mails
> > appear in the kde view, but THEY ARE NOT ON DISK ANYMORE. What I am
> > seeing is the akonadi cache, and sooner or later that will expire.
> 
> F..k!

Indeed, unless the local messages have been moved over to the IMAP server and 
will show up again in the local client (and disk) once you resync with the 
server - as I describe above.  I haven't checked my local Mail directories on 
the fs to see what happens to a message (physically) when it disappears 
temporarily from a local directory in Kmail.


> > There was no warning, no dialog, no notification. Just a pile of mail
> > disappeared. Akonadi/nepomuk/kmail/virtuoso/soprano/strigi didn't do
> > it's usual stunt of observing that my mouse pointer had moved and
> > consume 200% of cpu at load 11 for 30 minutes while it reindexed
> > everything. It appears to have just chucked 2GB of pim data away.
> 
> Check your .xsession-error for SQL-Errors. I had a ton of these and had to
> reconfigure my MySQL-Server to manage the requests it got from
> kmail/akonadi/whatever. Don't remember the details though.
> 
> > Need I mention that NOT chucking pim data away is it's primary design
> > goal (or should be).
> > 
> > Now finally after 3 years, I understand what all the other ex-KDE
> > users are on about - this is a stinking pile of bloatcrap and a
> > solution to a problem that actually does not exist.
> 
> I really like kde4. But this PIM-stuff... I don't get it.
> 
> > To say that I'm pissed off is putting it mildly.
> > Tomorrow morning I will decide if KDE4 itself is to be the next
> > casualty.

The funny thing is that other than the Konqueror/Dolphin, Kmail and K3b 
applications I don't really use KDE at all.  If this behaviour is true the 
first thing I would do is double the frequency of my backups!  o_O

I'll keep my fingers crossed that you haven't really lost all your messages 
because of some unbelievable and catastrophic Akonadi bug, please let us know 
what happens.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Akonadi loses mails

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am Mittwoch 24 August 2011, 22:11:48 schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> I am about to get on a damn plane to Germany, find me the entire
> collection of KDEPIM devs and shoot every last one of those fuckers
> dead. dead. dead. dead.
> 
> Then blow up the repo so this POS will never again see the light of
> day.
> 
> I'm trying to migrate away from kdepim. Nothing else out there imports
> KDE folders so I use my usual trick of running a local imap server,
> dragging mail trees into it and when the new mail client is started,
> everything is right there.
> 
> Akonadi/kmail2 silently destroys the mail when you attempt this.
> 
> I did a few tests, copied small folders, contents of other folders,
> etc and satisfied myself it all worked nicely. Then dragged and
> dropped nice big chunks of mail tree into the IMAP folders. The mails
> appear in the kde view, but THEY ARE NOT ON DISK ANYMORE. What I am
> seeing is the akonadi cache, and sooner or later that will expire.

and you looked at the contents of .local/share/akonadi especially 
local/share/akonadi/file_db_data?

> 
> There was no warning, no dialog, no notification. Just a pile of mail
> disappeared. Akonadi/nepomuk/kmail/virtuoso/soprano/strigi didn't do
> it's usual stunt of observing that my mouse pointer had moved and
> consume 200% of cpu at load 11 for 30 minutes while it reindexed
> everything. It appears to have just chucked 2GB of pim data away.

just restart akonadi (akonaditray helps a lot).
> 
> Need I mention that NOT chucking pim data away is it's primary design
> goal (or should be).
> 
> Now finally after 3 years, I understand what all the other ex-KDE
> users are on about - this is a stinking pile of bloatcrap and a
> solution to a problem that actually does not exist.

you were not forced to go kmail2, were you?

You should have asked me first - yes, it is a crapfest. I haven't lost mails 
(except thanks to crashes at a bad moment). Sometimes mails are gone - until 
akonadi is stopped and restarted.

It is a nightmare. Yeah.

-- 
#163933