[gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Peter Humphrey]

Hello list,

My MUA is KMail-2, which seems to be all right for others using IMAP but is 
very far from robust when fetching POP3 mails. I've tried alternatives to 
it, but none of them suit me - in particular, claws-mail is horrible, 
requiring a very different mental model just to operate it. Therefore I'm 
trying an evasion, which is to use fetchmail to retrieve emails from my ISP 
and deliver them to postfix, which can then serve them via IMAP.

I already have postfix working, I think, collecting emails from the LAN, but 
the fetchmail documentation is confusing and I hesitate to jump straight in 
for fear of losing emails.

Is there any guidance on setting up fetchmail on Gentoo to operate in this 
way? I've searched in likely places but the Gentoo docs are long out of date 
and others don't help much, so I still don't know what to add to /etc/
conf.d/fetchmail, nor whether I need a ~/.fetchmailrc or an /etc/fetchmailrc 
file (no sample comes with the ebuild).

What does the panel think?

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Wols Lists]

On 24/11/17 15:39, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> Is there any guidance on setting up fetchmail on Gentoo to operate in this 
> way? I've searched in likely places but the Gentoo docs are long out of date 
> and others don't help much, so I still don't know what to add to /etc/
> conf.d/fetchmail, nor whether I need a ~/.fetchmailrc or an /etc/fetchmailrc 
> file (no sample comes with the ebuild).

If you run fetchmail as a daemon, then you need /etc/fetchmailrc. If you
run it manually yourself, then you need ~/.fetchmailrc

Read the docu, in particular the bit about whether or not to delete
mails from the server. Set it to NOT delete mails, then you can test it
knowing that you won't lose anything.

I believe it keeps a log file of what it's downloaded, so for testing
purposes you may want to find and delete that.

And if you run it with the --verbose option, it'll tell you what it's
doing. I generally pipe that through the "tee" command, so I can see
whether it's doing what I expect, then I can examine the output in more
detail to check.

Beyond that, I would say you're doing a right thing. fetchmail is good
software. The only reason I'm not using it is MySQL broke, which took
out my virtual usernames, which broke postfix and fetchmail delivery :-(
And I've never got round to fixing MySQL.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Peter Humphrey]

On Friday, 24 November 2017 16:08:54 GMT Wols Lists wrote:
> On 24/11/17 15:39, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > Is there any guidance on setting up fetchmail on Gentoo to operate in
> > this way? I've searched in likely places but the Gentoo docs are long
> > out of date and others don't help much, so I still don't know what to
> > add to /etc/ conf.d/fetchmail, nor whether I need a ~/.fetchmailrc or
> > an /etc/fetchmailrc file (no sample comes with the ebuild).
> 
> If you run fetchmail as a daemon, then you need /etc/fetchmailrc. If you
> run it manually yourself, then you need ~/.fetchmailrc

The ebuild installs /etc/init.d/fetchmail and /etc/conf.d/fetchmail, so it 
seems to expect me to run as a daemon. But then there's no sample 
fetchmailrc, which surprises me.

> Read the docu,

Which one do you mean? The man page?

> ... in particular the bit about whether or not to delete mails from the
> server. Set it to NOT delete mails, then you can test it knowing that you
> won't lose anything.

Good idea - thanks.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Matthias Hanft]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> 
> The ebuild installs /etc/init.d/fetchmail and /etc/conf.d/fetchmail, so it 
> seems to expect me to run as a daemon. But then there's no sample 
> fetchmailrc, which surprises me.

A simple example line from my /etc/fetchmailrc is:

poll pop.mail.server.example.com proto pop3
        user "your.username@there", with password "secret", is "your.username@here" here, ssl;

That's all...

-Matt

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Peter Humphrey]

On Friday, 24 November 2017 18:10:21 GMT Matthias Hanft wrote:
> Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > The ebuild installs /etc/init.d/fetchmail and /etc/conf.d/fetchmail, so
> > it seems to expect me to run as a daemon. But then there's no sample
> > fetchmailrc, which surprises me.
> 
> A simple example line from my /etc/fetchmailrc is:
> 
> poll pop.mail.server.example.com proto pop3
>         user "your.username@there", with password "secret", is
> "your.username@here" here, ssl;
> 
> That's all...

Thank you Matt. That did the trick, and I now have fetchmail working.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Peter Humphrey]

On Monday, 27 November 2017 13:44:15 GMT Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Friday, 24 November 2017 18:10:21 GMT Matthias Hanft wrote:
> > Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > The ebuild installs /etc/init.d/fetchmail and /etc/conf.d/fetchmail,
> > > so
> > > it seems to expect me to run as a daemon. But then there's no sample
> > > fetchmailrc, which surprises me.
> > 
> > A simple example line from my /etc/fetchmailrc is:
> > 
> > poll pop.mail.server.example.com proto pop3
> > 
> >         user "your.username@there", with password "secret", is
> > 
> > "your.username@here" here, ssl;
> > 
> > That's all...
> 
> Thank you Matt. That did the trick, and I now have fetchmail working.

I do so wish this list wouldn't go silent for several days just after I've 
made a change to my email process. This isn't the first time, either.

;-(

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[J. Roeleveld]

On 30 November 2017 01:39:18 GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>On Monday, 27 November 2017 13:44:15 GMT Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> On Friday, 24 November 2017 18:10:21 GMT Matthias Hanft wrote:
>> > Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> > > The ebuild installs /etc/init.d/fetchmail and
>/etc/conf.d/fetchmail,
>> > > so
>> > > it seems to expect me to run as a daemon. But then there's no
>sample
>> > > fetchmailrc, which surprises me.
>> > 
>> > A simple example line from my /etc/fetchmailrc is:
>> > 
>> > poll pop.mail.server.example.com proto pop3
>> > 
>> >         user "your.username@there", with password "secret", is
>> > 
>> > "your.username@here" here, ssl;
>> > 
>> > That's all...
>> 
>> Thank you Matt. That did the trick, and I now have fetchmail working.
>
>I do so wish this list wouldn't go silent for several days just after
>I've 
>made a change to my email process. This isn't the first time, either.
>
>;-(

If you want an active list to test your mailsetup with, subscribe to the LKML :)

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:39:18 +0000, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > Thank you Matt. That did the trick, and I now have fetchmail
> > working.  
> 
> I do so wish this list wouldn't go silent for several days just after
> I've made a change to my email process. This isn't the first time,
> either.

Damn! He's rumbled us.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"When you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic Voices...
that's nothing - when you play it forward it installs Windows"

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Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Ralph Seichter]

On 24.11.17 16:39, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> I'm trying an evasion, which is to use fetchmail to retrieve emails
> from my ISP and deliver them to postfix, which can then serve them
> via IMAP.

Postfix is an MTA and does neither store email nor lets you access email
via IMAP. There must be an IMAP server in your mix somewhere (e.g.
Dovecot or Courier).

> I still don't know what to add to /etc/ conf.d/fetchmail, nor whether
> I need a ~/.fetchmailrc or an /etc/fetchmailrc file (no sample comes
> with the ebuild).

Your needs depend on what you are trying to achieve, and you have been a
bit vague on the details. If you plan to use a single fetchmail process,
~foo/.fetchmailrc (with foo being the user you want to run fetchmail as)
usually suffices.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Peter Humphrey]

On Friday, 24 November 2017 16:16:15 GMT Ralph Seichter wrote:
> On 24.11.17 16:39, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > I'm trying an evasion, which is to use fetchmail to retrieve emails
> > from my ISP and deliver them to postfix, which can then serve them
> > via IMAP.
> 
> Postfix is an MTA and does neither store email nor lets you access email
> via IMAP. There must be an IMAP server in your mix somewhere (e.g.
> Dovecot or Courier).

Yes, of course. Postfix feeds Dovecot here.

> > I still don't know what to add to /etc/ conf.d/fetchmail, nor whether
> > I need a ~/.fetchmailrc or an /etc/fetchmailrc file (no sample comes
> > with the ebuild).

> Your needs depend on what you are trying to achieve, and you have been a
> bit vague on the details.

That's because I don't yet know enough to know what questions to ask; that's 
why I hoped I'd be pointed to a general guide or explanation.

I thought I was clear enough: I want fetchmail to fetch POP mail and feed it 
into the local postfix (and of course dovecot) mail system. What else do you 
need?

> If you plan to use a single fetchmail process,
> ~foo/.fetchmailrc (with foo being the user you want to run fetchmail as)
> usually suffices.

I assume you mean ~/.fetchmailrc, a file in my home directory, no?

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Ralph Seichter]

On 24.11.17 17:40, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> That's because I don't yet know enough to know what questions to ask;
> that's why I hoped I'd be pointed to a general guide or explanation.

http://www.fetchmail.info/ is the most obvious starting point, and I
assume you have found that one. Fetchmail per se is not Gentoo-specific,
so you're better off asking questions on the FM mailing lists should you
find the manual and FAQ insufficient.

> > If you plan to use a single fetchmail process, ~foo/.fetchmailrc (with
> > foo being the user you want to run fetchmail as) usually suffices.
>
> I assume you mean ~/.fetchmailrc, a file in my home directory, no?

You can run fetchmail as the user you are logging in with or as a
separate user. I suggest the latter if you want to run fetchmail in
daemon mode, for standard privilege separation reasons. I used "foo" as
an example. If you want to run fetchmail on demand only, a dedicated
user account may be inconvenient, and you did not say which method you
are aiming for in your OP.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Rich Freeman]

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Ralph Seichter
<m16+gentoo@monksofcool.net> wrote:
> On 24.11.17 16:39, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>
>> I'm trying an evasion, which is to use fetchmail to retrieve emails
>> from my ISP and deliver them to postfix, which can then serve them
>> via IMAP.
>
> Postfix is an MTA and does neither store email nor lets you access email
> via IMAP. There must be an IMAP server in your mix somewhere (e.g.
> Dovecot or Courier).
>

While Postfix certainly won't serve up email via IMAP it definitely
does store email.  You are correct that you'd run a separate IMAP
server.  They need not be on the same host assuming they can both get
at the maildirs.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Ralph Seichter]

On 24.11.17 18:30, Rich Freeman wrote:

> While Postfix certainly won't serve up email via IMAP it definitely
> does store email.

As an MTA should, Postfix transports email. It can also handle local
mail transport (say, in maildirs) and I guess one could call that
"storing" mail, but to me that's stretching the term too far.

> You are correct that you'd run a separate IMAP server. They need not
> be on the same host assuming they can both get at the maildirs.

As the OP is using Postfix to feed data to Dovecot, I strongly suggest
configuring Dovecot's LMTP as a mailbox transport instead of having
Postfix write directly to the file system.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Peter Humphrey]

On Friday, 24 November 2017 17:52:36 GMT Ralph Seichter wrote:
> As the OP is using Postfix to feed data to Dovecot, I strongly suggest
> configuring Dovecot's LMTP as a mailbox transport instead of having
> Postfix write directly to the file system.

Do I really need to do that on this small, low-volume network? What do I 
lose by letting postfix and fetchmail write files for dovecot to read?

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Ralph Seichter]

On 27.11.17 14:44, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> Do I really need to do that on this small, low-volume network? What do
> I lose by letting postfix and fetchmail write files for dovecot to read?

It is very easy to configure Postfix to use an LMTP socket provided
by Dovecot (paths match typical installations, adapt if necessary):

  # /etc/dovecot/conf.d/10-master.conf
  service lmtp {
    unix_listener /var/spool/postfix/private/dovecot-lmtp {
      user = postfix
      group = postfix
      mode = 0660
    }
  }

  # /etc/postfix/main.cf
  mailbox_transport = lmtp:unix:private/dovecot-lmtp

These few lines save you from all the potential hassle that sharing
read/write access to the same files could bring. Dovecot will ensure
that indexes are up to date when mail is delivered, and that alone is
reason enough for me. I think the mail store belongs to the IMAP server,
and neither the MTA nor MUA should access that store directly via the
file system, but use protocols like LMTP and IMAP to communicate with
Dovecot instead. Standard separation of responsibilities, easier to
maintain.

-Ralph

[gentoo-user] Re: Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2017-11-27 17:13, Ralph Seichter wrote:

> These few lines save you from all the potential hassle that sharing
> read/write access to the same files could bring. Dovecot will ensure
> that indexes are up to date when mail is delivered, and that alone is
> reason enough for me.

Do you really need lmtp for that, though?  As far as I remember simply
piping the messages to the /usr/lib/dovecot/deliver program, as the
deilivery mechanism, will ensure the same thing.  I don't know postfix
much though, so maybe that's hard to do with postfix, unlike my pet
exim.

Also, even if you completely ignore dovecot at delivery time and write
the mailbox behind its back, it will update the index as soon as you
connect via IMAP.  I remember wondering about this when I saw such a
setup and musing how it could possibly work, but it does.

-- 
Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet,
if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup.
To reply privately _only_ on Usenet, fetch the TXT record for the domain.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Ralph Seichter]

On 27.11.17 18:48, Ian Zimmerman wrote:

> Do you really need lmtp for that, though? As far as I remember simply
> piping the messages to the /usr/lib/dovecot/deliver program, as the
> deilivery mechanism, will ensure the same thing.

Both Dovecot and Postfix speak LMTP, so why not use it for local mail
transport? As the name suggests, that's what it was designed for, and
the setup I described (my standard configuration) has proven to be both
easy to configure and very reliable for me and my customers.

> I don't know postfix much though, so maybe that's hard to do with
> postfix, unlike my pet exim.

It's easy, see mailbox_command et al. One could even configure different
commands for each recipient, but I think LMTP beats launching an external
process per delivery.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 09:48:11 -0800, Ian Zimmerman wrote:

> > These few lines save you from all the potential hassle that sharing
> > read/write access to the same files could bring. Dovecot will ensure
> > that indexes are up to date when mail is delivered, and that alone is
> > reason enough for me.  
> 
> Do you really need lmtp for that, though?  As far as I remember simply
> piping the messages to the /usr/lib/dovecot/deliver program, as the
> deilivery mechanism, will ensure the same thing.  I don't know postfix
> much though, so maybe that's hard to do with postfix,
> unlike my pet exim.

In that case, why bother with Postfix at all. Can't fetchmail send mails
directly to an MDA? I use getmail and it doesn't need Postfix at all.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 013: Unexpected error - Huh ?

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Peter Humphrey]

On Monday, 27 November 2017 22:14:34 GMT Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 09:48:11 -0800, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> > > These few lines save you from all the potential hassle that sharing
> > > read/write access to the same files could bring. Dovecot will ensure
> > > that indexes are up to date when mail is delivered, and that alone is
> > > reason enough for me.
> > 
> > Do you really need lmtp for that, though?  As far as I remember simply
> > piping the messages to the /usr/lib/dovecot/deliver program, as the
> > deilivery mechanism, will ensure the same thing.  I don't know postfix
> > much though, so maybe that's hard to do with postfix,
> > unlike my pet exim.
> 
> In that case, why bother with Postfix at all. Can't fetchmail send mails
> directly to an MDA? I use getmail and it doesn't need Postfix at all.

In my case, postfix collates emails from other boxes on the LAN.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[J. Roeleveld]

On 24 November 2017 18:30:22 GMT+01:00, Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:
>On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Ralph Seichter
><m16+gentoo@monksofcool.net> wrote:
>> On 24.11.17 16:39, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying an evasion, which is to use fetchmail to retrieve emails
>>> from my ISP and deliver them to postfix, which can then serve them
>>> via IMAP.
>>
>> Postfix is an MTA and does neither store email nor lets you access
>email
>> via IMAP. There must be an IMAP server in your mix somewhere (e.g.
>> Dovecot or Courier).
>>
>
>While Postfix certainly won't serve up email via IMAP it definitely
>does store email.  You are correct that you'd run a separate IMAP
>server.  They need not be on the same host assuming they can both get
>at the maildirs.

I would let the mailstore (Cyrus, Dovecot,...) do the actual storing of the email and have the MTA (postfix, sendmail,...) pass it via LMTP or similar.

That way any indexes and metadata is handled properly.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 24 Nov 2017 15:39:25 +0000, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> My MUA is KMail-2, which seems to be all right for others using IMAP
> but is very far from robust when fetching POP3 mails. I've tried
> alternatives to it, but none of them suit me - in particular,
> claws-mail is horrible, 

Funnily enough, I switched to Claws because I found KMail horrible...


-- 
Neil Bothwick

... "I dropped my toothpaste," Tom said, Crestfallen.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Marc Joliet]

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Am Freitag, 24. November 2017, 23:24:45 CET schrieb Neil Bothwick:
> On Fri, 24 Nov 2017 15:39:25 +0000, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > My MUA is KMail-2, which seems to be all right for others using IMAP
> > but is very far from robust when fetching POP3 mails. I've tried
> > alternatives to it, but none of them suit me - in particular,
> > claws-mail is horrible,
> 
> Funnily enough, I switched to Claws because I found KMail horrible...

I switched from Claws to KMail in part because I hated that checking for 
emails would block the GUI.  Not being able to type because Claws decided to 
check for emails in the background again became more and more infuriating over 
time... (Also, I find that Claws feels... out of place under Plasma.)

That said, I like both, for different reasons (other than the apparent global 
lock, Claws *is* blazingly fast).

Greetings
-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup

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Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 09:43:04 +0100, Marc Joliet wrote:

> > Funnily enough, I switched to Claws because I found KMail
> > horrible...  
> 
> I switched from Claws to KMail in part because I hated that checking
> for emails would block the GUI.  Not being able to type because Claws
> decided to check for emails in the background again became more and
> more infuriating over time...

That only happens if you enable the setting to open a progress window
when checking for mails. I use background checking here because that
would annoy me as much as it did you!


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The trouble with the world is that everybody in it is three drinks behind.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Marc Joliet]

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Am Samstag, 25. November 2017, 10:04:44 CET schrieb Neil Bothwick:
> On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 09:43:04 +0100, Marc Joliet wrote:
> > > Funnily enough, I switched to Claws because I found KMail
> > > horrible...
> > 
> > I switched from Claws to KMail in part because I hated that checking
> > for emails would block the GUI.  Not being able to type because Claws
> > decided to check for emails in the background again became more and
> > more infuriating over time...
> 
> That only happens if you enable the setting to open a progress window
> when checking for mails. I use background checking here because that
> would annoy me as much as it did you!

Huh!  I did not know that, thanks.  That will be useful to know should I ever 
use Claws again :) .

-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup

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Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Jalus Bilieyich]

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As an everyday user of KMail, I am completely happy with using it. I
don't see any flaws with it. Maybe it's just me or...? Is there a reason
behind the hostile glare towards KMail?

On 11/25/2017 03:23 AM, Marc Joliet wrote:
> Am Samstag, 25. November 2017, 10:04:44 CET schrieb Neil Bothwick:
>> On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 09:43:04 +0100, Marc Joliet wrote:
>>>> Funnily enough, I switched to Claws because I found KMail
>>>> horrible...
>>>
>>> I switched from Claws to KMail in part because I hated that checking
>>> for emails would block the GUI.  Not being able to type because Claws
>>> decided to check for emails in the background again became more and
>>> more infuriating over time...
>>
>> That only happens if you enable the setting to open a progress window
>> when checking for mails. I use background checking here because that
>> would annoy me as much as it did you!
> 
> Huh!  I did not know that, thanks.  That will be useful to know should I ever 
> use Claws again :) .
> 


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Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday, 25 November 2017 16:20:46 GMT Jalus Bilieyich wrote:
> As an everyday user of KMail, I am completely happy with using it. I
> don't see any flaws with it. Maybe it's just me or...? Is there a reason
> behind the hostile glare towards KMail?

Do you have POP3 or IMAP-4 accounts?

It used to be like that for me too, but not for a long time now. I get 
duplicate messages, which are a known problem and easily worked around, but 
the latest version of KMail whinges about more than one candidate for 
display and just gives up. Then I have to stop KMail, start akonadiconsole 
and use it to delete the akonadi cache of the affected folder, restart 
akonadi and (when the debug messages quieten down) restart KMail and click 
on the same folder. Then it rebuilds the threads and stores them neatly away 
in MySQL.

This happens several times a day, sometimes even more than once in the same 
folder. I don't know why I should be affected more than anyone else, but I 
do seem to be. It reminds me of Dale and his struggles a few years ago with 
... what was it again, Dale?

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Alan McKinnon]

On 26/11/2017 04:30, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Saturday, 25 November 2017 16:20:46 GMT Jalus Bilieyich wrote:
>> As an everyday user of KMail, I am completely happy with using it. I
>> don't see any flaws with it. Maybe it's just me or...? Is there a reason
>> behind the hostile glare towards KMail?
> 
> Do you have POP3 or IMAP-4 accounts?
> 
> It used to be like that for me too, but not for a long time now. I get 
> duplicate messages, which are a known problem and easily worked around, but 
> the latest version of KMail whinges about more than one candidate for 
> display and just gives up. Then I have to stop KMail, start akonadiconsole 
> and use it to delete the akonadi cache of the affected folder, restart 
> akonadi and (when the debug messages quieten down) restart KMail and click 
> on the same folder. Then it rebuilds the threads and stores them neatly away 
> in MySQL.
> 
> This happens several times a day, sometimes even more than once in the same 
> folder. I don't know why I should be affected more than anyone else, but I 
> do seem to be. It reminds me of Dale and his struggles a few years ago with 
> ... what was it again, Dale?
> 

it was the init thingy, and before that it was HAL

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday, 26 November 2017 06:58:06 GMT Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 26/11/2017 04:30, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Saturday, 25 November 2017 16:20:46 GMT Jalus Bilieyich wrote:
> >> As an everyday user of KMail, I am completely happy with using it. I
> >> don't see any flaws with it. Maybe it's just me or...? Is there a
> >> reason
> >> behind the hostile glare towards KMail?
> > 
> > Do you have POP3 or IMAP-4 accounts?
> > 
> > It used to be like that for me too, but not for a long time now. I get
> > duplicate messages, which are a known problem and easily worked around,
> > but the latest version of KMail whinges about more than one candidate
> > for display and just gives up. Then I have to stop KMail, start
> > akonadiconsole and use it to delete the akonadi cache of the affected
> > folder, restart akonadi and (when the debug messages quieten down)
> > restart KMail and click on the same folder. Then it rebuilds the
> > threads and stores them neatly away in MySQL.
> > 
> > This happens several times a day, sometimes even more than once in the
> > same folder. I don't know why I should be affected more than anyone
> > else, but I do seem to be. It reminds me of Dale and his struggles a
> > few years ago with ... what was it again, Dale?
> 
> it was the init thingy, and before that it was HAL

HAL, yes, that's what I was thinking of.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Jalus Bilieyich]

Yes, I have an IMAP account provided by GMail.

On 11/26/2017 12:58 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 26/11/2017 04:30, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> On Saturday, 25 November 2017 16:20:46 GMT Jalus Bilieyich wrote:
>>> As an everyday user of KMail, I am completely happy with using it. I
>>> don't see any flaws with it. Maybe it's just me or...? Is there a reason
>>> behind the hostile glare towards KMail?
>>
>> Do you have POP3 or IMAP-4 accounts?
>>
>> It used to be like that for me too, but not for a long time now. I get 
>> duplicate messages, which are a known problem and easily worked around, but 
>> the latest version of KMail whinges about more than one candidate for 
>> display and just gives up. Then I have to stop KMail, start akonadiconsole 
>> and use it to delete the akonadi cache of the affected folder, restart 
>> akonadi and (when the debug messages quieten down) restart KMail and click 
>> on the same folder. Then it rebuilds the threads and stores them neatly away 
>> in MySQL.
>>
>> This happens several times a day, sometimes even more than once in the same 
>> folder. I don't know why I should be affected more than anyone else, but I 
>> do seem to be. It reminds me of Dale and his struggles a few years ago with 
>> ... what was it again, Dale?
>>
> 
> it was the init thingy, and before that it was HAL
> 

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 02:30:11 +0000, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > As an everyday user of KMail, I am completely happy with using it. I
> > don't see any flaws with it. Maybe it's just me or...? Is there a
> > reason behind the hostile glare towards KMail?  
> 
> Do you have POP3 or IMAP-4 accounts?
> 
> It used to be like that for me too, but not for a long time now. I get 
> duplicate messages,

And, so it seems, do we ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"A computer is like an Old Testament god, with a lot of rules and no
mercy." \xA0-- Joseph Campbell

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Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Ralph Seichter]

On 26.11.2017 03:30, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> I get duplicate messages, which are a known problem and easily worked
> around, but the latest version of KMail whinges about more than one
> candidate for display and just gives up.

For debugging purposes it might help you to know that you actually sent
the message I am currently quoting twice, according to the header data.
Message #1:

  Received: from [82.69.80.10] (helo=peak.localnet)
    by smarthost03d.mail.zen.net.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256)
    (Exim 4.80)
    (envelope-from <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk>)
    id 1eImhw-0000IJ-SK
    for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 02:30:12 +0000

Message #2:

  Received: from [82.69.80.10] (helo=peak.localnet)
    by smarthost03a.mail.zen.net.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256)
    (Exim 4.80)
    (envelope-from <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk>)
    id 1eImhw-0002XH-8v
    for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 02:30:12 +0000

Note the different host names and different IDs, these are two distinct
emails sent by you.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday, 26 November 2017 10:00:40 GMT Ralph Seichter wrote:
> On 26.11.2017 03:30, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > I get duplicate messages, which are a known problem and easily worked
> > around, but the latest version of KMail whinges about more than one
> > candidate for display and just gives up.
> 
> For debugging purposes it might help you to know that you actually sent
> the message I am currently quoting twice, according to the header data.
> Message #1:
> 
>   Received: from [82.69.80.10] (helo=peak.localnet)
>     by smarthost03d.mail.zen.net.uk with esmtps
> (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.80)
>     (envelope-from <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk>)
>     id 1eImhw-0000IJ-SK
>     for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 02:30:12 +0000
> 
> Message #2:
> 
>   Received: from [82.69.80.10] (helo=peak.localnet)
>     by smarthost03a.mail.zen.net.uk with esmtps
> (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.80)
>     (envelope-from <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk>)
>     id 1eImhw-0002XH-8v
>     for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 02:30:12 +0000
> 
> Note the different host names and different IDs, these are two distinct
> emails sent by you.

Indeed. Thanks for the info.

It looks as though KMail did that; at least, I can't imagine how finger 
trouble could have done it, even at 02:30. I have only the one outgoing mail 
account set up in KMail, and that's directly to my ISP, so my fetchmail 
fiddling isn't implicated. I haven't heard of KMail duplicating /outgoing/ 
emails before, though.

Maybe I did do something stupid - it wouldn't be the first time. I'll have 
to keep an eye on this one, and I hope someone will tell me if it happens 
again.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

[gentoo-user] Re: Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2017-11-26 11:00, Ralph Seichter wrote:

>   Received: from [82.69.80.10] (helo=peak.localnet)
>     by smarthost03d.mail.zen.net.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256)
>     (Exim 4.80)
>     (envelope-from <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk>)
>     id 1eImhw-0000IJ-SK
>     for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 02:30:12 +0000
> 
> Message #2:
> 
>   Received: from [82.69.80.10] (helo=peak.localnet)
>     by smarthost03a.mail.zen.net.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256)
>     (Exim 4.80)
>     (envelope-from <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk>)
>     id 1eImhw-0002XH-8v
>     for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 02:30:12 +0000
> 
> Note the different host names and different IDs, these are two distinct
> emails sent by you.

No, those are Exim's local IDs, assigned by the list server host.  Those
are distinct from RFc 5322 Message-IDs, which are the closest thing to
uniquely identify a message.

So from the above it cannot be concluded that Peter's system sent the
message twice: it might have, but it might equally have been the fault
of the list server.

FWIW, I am _not_ seeing any duplicates on this list, but I am currently
struggling with dupes on another one:

http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

-- 
Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet,
if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup.
To reply privately _only_ on Usenet, fetch the TXT record for the domain.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Ralph Seichter]

On 26.11.2017 18:46, Ian Zimmerman wrote:

> those are Exim's local IDs, assigned by the list server host. Those
> are distinct from RFc 5322 Message-IDs, which are the closest thing
> to uniquely identify a message.

I am well aware of this, and this is exactly what I wanted to point out.

> So from the above it cannot be concluded that Peter's system sent the
> message twice: it might have, but it might equally have been the fault
> of the list server.

Peter's email was either sent to both of the following

  smarthost03a.mail.zen.net.uk [212.23.1.20]
  smarthost03d.mail.zen.net.uk [212.23.1.23]

in short succession or magically duplicated. Just save both messages and
run 'diff' to verify this. The other MUA-generated headers appear to be
identical, including "Message-ID: <1722168.phgiPb26BP@peak>". While it
is possible that zen.net.uk screwed up, I consider it more likely that
the message was sent twice, as more of their customers would notice a
systemic problem and probably be quite vocal about it. There's nothing
to be done if the smarthosts are actually stupid hosts anyway. ;-)

> FWIW, I am _not_ seeing any duplicates on this list [...]

Does NeoMutt perhaps suppress dupes based on message ID? Thunderbird
obviously does not.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Jack]

On 2017.11.26 13:46, Ralph Seichter wrote:
> On 26.11.2017 18:46, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
....
> 
> > FWIW, I am _not_ seeing any duplicates on this list [...]
> 
> Does NeoMutt perhaps suppress dupes based on message ID? Thunderbird  
> obviously does not.

Balsa has a Remove Duplicates command, but I don't actually know what  
it uses as criteria.

Jack

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Wols Lists]

On 26/11/17 18:46, Ralph Seichter wrote:
> Does NeoMutt perhaps suppress dupes based on message ID? Thunderbird
> obviously does not.

Thunderbird has an add-on that will delete duplicates. I make regular
use of it :-(

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Wols Lists <antlists@youngman.org.uk> wrote:
> On 26/11/17 18:46, Ralph Seichter wrote:
>> Does NeoMutt perhaps suppress dupes based on message ID? Thunderbird
>> obviously does not.
>
> Thunderbird has an add-on that will delete duplicates. I make regular
> use of it :-(
>

You'll find this recipe all over the place, but with procmail you can do this:
https://mymegabyte.com/2010/03/filter-duplicate-emails-with-procmail/

I highly recommend using it.  Works on lists/direct/etc.  You won't
find yourself complaining about crossposts, being on CC, or whatever
again.

-- 
Rich

[gentoo-user] Re: Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2017-11-26 16:46, Rich Freeman wrote:

> You'll find this recipe all over the place, but with procmail you can
> do this:
> https://mymegabyte.com/2010/03/filter-duplicate-emails-with-procmail/

I don't trust procmail anymore after CVE-2017-16844.  It took me a long
time, I had a weak spot for it, you might say, despite its horrible
looking source.  But now it's over.  I have rewritten my delivery
framework using Perl and Mail::Audit, and I feel very relieved.

> I highly recommend using it.  Works on lists/direct/etc.  You won't
> find yourself complaining about crossposts, being on CC, or whatever
> again.

On the other list I mentioned, I am getting dupes after a _month_.
It would take a huge .msgid file to detect that, and remember formail
does a linear search through it.

I'm experimenting with using the filesystem as a hashtable, creating an
empty file based on each Message-ID header (of course I munge it to get
a valid filename).

-- 
Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet,
if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup.
To reply privately _only_ on Usenet, fetch the TXT record for the domain.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Ian Zimmerman <itz@very.loosely.org> wrote:
>
> I don't trust procmail anymore after CVE-2017-16844.

Uh, thanks.  Hadn't even heard of that one, but I was on vacation when
it hit I think.

Bug 522114 has a link to the patch, which works fine with eapply_user
with the latest revision of the ebuild in ~arch.  I have no idea when
the patch will make it into the repo, but that should happen at some
point.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[J. Roeleveld]

On 26 November 2017 03:30:11 GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>On Saturday, 25 November 2017 16:20:46 GMT Jalus Bilieyich wrote:
>> As an everyday user of KMail, I am completely happy with using it. I
>> don't see any flaws with it. Maybe it's just me or...? Is there a
>reason
>> behind the hostile glare towards KMail?
>
>Do you have POP3 or IMAP-4 accounts?
>
>It used to be like that for me too, but not for a long time now. I get 
>duplicate messages, which are a known problem and easily worked around,
>but 
>the latest version of KMail whinges about more than one candidate for 
>display and just gives up. Then I have to stop KMail, start
>akonadiconsole 
>and use it to delete the akonadi cache of the affected folder, restart 
>akonadi and (when the debug messages quieten down) restart KMail and
>click 
>on the same folder. Then it rebuilds the threads and stores them neatly
>away 
>in MySQL.
>
>This happens several times a day, sometimes even more than once in the
>same 
>folder. I don't know why I should be affected more than anyone else,
>but I 
>do seem to be. It reminds me of Dale and his struggles a few years ago
>with 
>... what was it again, Dale?

Interesting,

I use kmail a lot on my desktop and laptop and have not noticed that in a very long time.
It has actually been quite stable.

I do use IMAP (cyrus) and akonadi is configured to use a postgresql database which is not running as embedded under my own user.
(Postgresql is configured as a proper RDBMS using it's own user)

I wonder of part of the issues most people are seeing is because of the default of using mysql embedded?

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] Setting up fetchmail to feed postfix

[Mick]

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On Sunday, 26 November 2017 10:22:26 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:

> I use kmail a lot on my desktop and laptop and have not noticed that in a
> very long time. It has actually been quite stable.

I use it on 3 different boxen.  Two of them in daily usage have frequent 
problems of dups and random resync's downloading tonnes of headers and data 
from Gmail.


> I do use IMAP (cyrus) and akonadi is configured to use a postgresql database
> which is not running as embedded under my own user. (Postgresql is
> configured as a proper RDBMS using it's own user)

On one box I set it up exactly like you have, following your advice - thanks 
again.  On the other two I've let the default MySQL setup to do the akonadi 
dance.


> I wonder of part of the issues most people are seeing is because of the
> default of using mysql embedded?
> 
> --
> Joost

No I wouldn't think so.  Most of the problems I have observed here are related 
to Gmail and how Kmail interacts with it.  In particular sending/deleting 
emails seems to create problems which lead to duplicates in Sent folder and/or 
resyncs.  The problems appear to take place when the connection to the server 
is down.  If I leave kmail running and return to the box an hour later it is 
most likely that when I click on Inbox, or any other Gmail folder, the 
connection to the server will hang and eventually time out.  I have seen 
reports mentioning similar problems by other Kmail users, waiting/hoping for a 
fix.

I have not experienced such problems with other mail servers, or at least they 
are not as noticeable of frequent.

Also, there is a latency/delay between receiving/sending an email and akonadi 
doing its thing with indexing, storing, etc.  I know others think a database 
back end was the best thing KDEPIM could have come up with, but here it has 
been an unmitigated disaster, causing endless hours of troubleshooting and 
head scratching.  The latest thing sent to test my patience has been the 
address book(s) no longer show any addresses.  Also, the drop down menu for 
Edit, View and Tools in the same, are empty, while File, Settings and Help are 
thankfully still working.  :-/  I have refused to waste any more time trying 
to troubleshoot this problem.

Unfortunately, I have found every other email client interface I have tried 
less satisfactory and I keep returning to Kmail.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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