From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA35E139083 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 11:34:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2EEF9E0F59; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 11:34:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81089E0F45 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 11:34:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from thetick.localnet ([93.181.44.247]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx001 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MO77c-1eLluX1Iv6-005WCw for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 12:34:09 +0100 From: Marc Joliet To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is gnome becoming obligatory? Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 12:34:03 +0100 Message-ID: <1631660.tsUNQvXBgp@thetick> In-Reply-To: <20171210101330.GA5671@ACM> References: <6582741.F9gJHCEsXr@dell_xps> <5A2D04A1.6090101@youngman.org.uk> <20171210101330.GA5671@ACM> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart9891061.ydurDxVyku"; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:k12mTs5uLHPCtqGFPnS+3Bmt9olHIE8F+VyINUhGrxhwKU8dta6 CvJZ5dTGOQxB9J5FLWGlYLfcDHCBh/hnbXUm926u1kdH17cin1VDfpcp/LBr3CYprWe6onD NdIZXoz9iSP506FB1QmBPfH1vsAWEWPpio3PC3yxYOk6KrtWdfjQ7c8Bo1D1oXeO7xFYgms aUsod3fI/2nYb059DlowA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:7Y36xPxBsZQ=:hv28cekFwDVEUpZ13AB8bx u+r/yfsfYK3JML5ck6nEYHVjbBfNGOVgdgHqV07YDp05yUB6b9f7v6CPMgB5BythGXRcWOF8V 7FG7AsCZ4uC8bIkPg16/35O66OWg4WufEQNRJfD8lTn0oOrhGDpMYoIukKaWWGk4j7/jq9iUQ qjPZY++R/YswZkPgcIveQiJYDS3q9YvXvVzBUIq1YAuha3m+fHLGdahbCxNH8PcUgom5RvlwM PSQLIE6Q/dZEa4dumdONVQMNrgDbDXfIRjNcocMna69I+DyyESXL5NH2QkZjm576jEJa1SFB4 IGrsRvk11MgcM7+aPLdVXrIU3WbVLEmFoPSUtB532/BxxEVuR/d3gb9SQK/bSuOGJAyDb1qZ5 vtUGw1RatkRPKbh94aJPDSAve38oXD5Jjw66LanwjC3rIV54+7pAORrzDqV8OsJ9Q19hUkKt9 3OUrFCJZ0mbQVEjVIJgH4fy8xn6RWv/bJSEzNz7qNxxa+ATpeY7SSn+vbe0jQDWNMTGkLEZhL P1lX7MC4grJhuVvKdKr5xdhjjHXjc3V/6plOcRw++UOBDokeukE8/jQ+kLf18Qi0Mt/zgV0jD Awp1RckeECVNpNtaTsBoihgU95gds1ev/ppBU/35lgatQSxj7eYWBYJrieJaT7efi2R9OV0An IJZovrV5Gxt7lzM4vx4nQZPC8HLghEo8TjO/5GPbIOa/YvtldunCOEa2duKhoQrAKs418DiTd fXXDwhEKCvlEjhRP0q2FewRXOAH/tBLNfz1RUvYBCIley8wGIq9BpR5gCGK1BBP/0kTucNjGl d5FgpOB6grDvfxidO+EPXpom9xNhA== X-Archives-Salt: 9cafb991-17d1-485f-9562-49b9ee166a88 X-Archives-Hash: de1d76bb4e151420e4d8f445debf4fde --nextPart9891061.ydurDxVyku Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Am Sonntag, 10. Dezember 2017, 11:13:30 CET schrieb Alan Mackenzie: > Hello, Wols > > On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 09:55:45 +0000, Wols Lists wrote: [...] > > Lennart doesn't want a system where a small failure in one place > > cascades and brings down a load of stuff elsewhere. > > Neither do I, and neither does anybody. GNU/Linux is not like that, and > never has been. Except where it has, of course. (Seriously, you can't completely avoid breakage when different, independent groups are responsible for different components of a complex, intertwined system.) > It has traditionally been a massive pain to set up, > though, something which has improved dramatically over the last ten or > twenty years. I agree with this, though. > > Granted he's not necessarily the most politic of people, and has ruffled > > a lot of feathers, but I'd much rather a system he's cleaned up, than a > > system where everything hangs together on a knife-edge. > > His motivation seems to be ego. To force everybody to use his software. > He did this by, amongst other things, abusing the trust placed in him to > maintain udev. Early on he abandoned support for udev for everybody but > users of his new init system, systemd, in an attempt (sadly successful) > to force "everybody" into using systemd. Of course, the previous maintainer of udev fully supported whatever changes were made, so you're painting a false picture of a potential different history. > I've no idea how good systemd is. It's not been through the normal > process of choice and selection that other successful packages have. It > was forced on people. But being forced to have a binary system log, > being forced (so I have heard) to have an http server running, ...., > doesn't make it an attractive package for me. *All* of this is "so I have heard". What happened to researching stuff as the better alternative to speaking out of your ass? Speaking for myself, I *switched to* systemd fully on my own, and definitely do *not* regret it. I can't speak for all distros, but all of the ones I know of switched willingly, because for them (as for me), systemd was the better choice. You're not against choice, are you ;-) ? > > Cheers, > > Wol Greetings -- Marc Joliet -- "People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup --nextPart9891061.ydurDxVyku Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. 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