Re: [gentoo-user] Are those "green" drives any good?

[Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com>]

Am Samstag, 12. Mai 2012, 10:34:12 schrieb Mick:
> On Thursday 10 May 2012 19:51:14 Mark Knecht wrote:
> > On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Norman Invasion
> > 
> > <invasivenorman@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 10 May 2012 14:01, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Norman Invasion
> > >> 
> > >> <invasivenorman@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> On 9 May 2012 04:47, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> Hi,
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> As some know, I'm planning to buy me a LARGE hard drive to put all my
> > >>>> videos on, eventually.  The prices are coming down now.  I keep
> > >>>> seeing
> > >>>> these "green" drives that are made by just about every company
> > >>>> nowadays. When comparing them to a non "green" drive, do they hold up
> > >>>> as good? Are they as dependable as a plain drive?  I guess they are
> > >>>> more efficient and I get that but do they break quicker, more often
> > >>>> or no difference?
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> I have noticed that they tend to spin slower and are cheaper.  That
> > >>>> much I have figured out.  Other than that, I can't see any other
> > >>>> difference. Data speeds seem to be about the same.
> > >>> 
> > >>> They have an ugly tendency to nod off at 6 second intervals.
> > >>> This runs up "193 Load_Cycle_Count" unacceptably: as many
> > >>> as a few hundred thousand in a year & a million cycles is
> > >>> getting close to the lifetime limit on most hard drives.  I end
> > >>> up running some iteration of
> > >>> # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda
> > >>> every boot.
> > >> 
> > >> Very true about the 193 count. Here's a drive in a system that was
> > >> built in Jan., 2010 so it's a bit over 2 years old at this point. It's
> > >> on 24/7 and not rebooted except for more major updates, etc. My tests
> > >> say the drive spins down and starts back up every 2 minutes and has
> > >> been doing so for about 28 months. IIRC the 193 spec on this drive was
> > >> something like 300000 max with the drive currently clocking in at
> > >> 700488. I don't see any evidence that it's going to fail but I am
> > >> trying to make sure it's backed up often. Being that it's gone >2x at
> > >> this point I will swap the drive out in the early summer no matter
> > >> what. This week I'll be visiting where the machine is so I'm going to
> > >> put a backup drive in the box to get ready.
> > > 
> > > Yes, I just learned about this problem in 2009 or so, &
> > > checked on my FreeBSD laptop, which turned out to be
> > > at >400000.  It only made it another month or so before
> > > having unrecoverable errors.
> > > 
> > > Now, I can't conclusively demonstrate that the 193
> > > Load_Cycle_Count was somehow causitive, but I
> > > gots my suspicions.  Many of 'em highly suspectable.
> > 
> > It's part of the 'Wear Out Failure' part of the Bathtub Curve posted
> > in the last few days. That said, some Toyotas go 100K miles, and
> > others go 500K miles. Same car, same spec, same production line,
> > different owners, different roads, different climates, etc.
> > 
> > It's not possible to absolutely know when any drive will fail. I
> > suspect that the 300K spec is just that, a spec. They'd replace the
> > drive if it failed at 299,999 and wouldn't replace it at 300,001. That
> > said, they don't want to spec thing too tightly, and I doubt many
> > people make a purchasing decision on a spec like this, so for the vast
> > majority of drives most likely they'd do far more than 300K.
> > 
> > At 2 minutes per count on that specific WD Green Drive, if a home
> > machine is turned on for instance 5 hours a day (6PM to 11PM) then
> > 300K count equates to around 6 years. To me that seems pretty generous
> > for a low cost home machine. However for a 24/7 production server it's
> > a pretty fast replacement schedule.
> > 
> > Here's data for my 500GB WD RAID Edition drives in my compute server
> > here. It's powered down almost every night but doesn't suffer from the
> > same firmware issues. The machine was built in April, 2010, so it's a
> > bit of 2 years old.  Note that it's been powered on less than 1/2 the
> > number of hours but only has a 193 count of 907 vs > 700000!
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Mark
> > 
> > 
> > c2stable ~ # smartctl -a /dev/sda
> > smartctl 5.42 2011-10-20 r3458 [x86_64-linux-3.2.12-gentoo] (local build)
> > Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net
> > 
> > === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> > Model Family:     Western Digital RE3 Serial ATA
> > Device Model:     WDC WD5002ABYS-02B1B0
> > Serial Number:    WD-WCASYA846988
> > LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 2042c3477
> > Firmware Version: 02.03B03
> > User Capacity:    500,107,862,016 bytes [500 GB]
> > Sector Size:      512 bytes logical/physical
> > Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> > ATA Version is:   8
> > ATA Standard is:  Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated
> > Local Time is:    Thu May 10 11:45:45 2012 PDT
> > SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> > SMART support is: Enabled
> > 
> > === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> > SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
> > 
> > General SMART Values:
> > Offline data collection status:  (0x84) Offline data collection activity
> > 
> >                                         was suspended by an
> > 
> > interrupting command from host.
> > 
> >                                         Auto Offline Data Collection:
> > Enabled. Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test
> > routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run.
> > Total time to complete Offline
> > data collection:                ( 9480) seconds.
> > Offline data collection
> > capabilities:                    (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
> > 
> >                                         Auto Offline data collection
> > 
> > on/off support.
> > 
> >                                         Suspend Offline collection upon
> >                                         new
> >                                         command.
> >                                         Offline surface scan supported.
> >                                         Self-test supported.
> >                                         Conveyance Self-test
> > 
> > supported.
> > 
> >                                         Selective Self-test supported.
> > 
> > SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before
> > entering
> > 
> >                                         power-saving mode.
> >                                         Supports SMART auto save
> > 
> > timer.
> > Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
> > 
> >                                         General Purpose Logging
> > 
> > supported.
> > Short self-test routine
> > recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
> > Extended self-test routine
> > recommended polling time:        ( 112) minutes.
> > Conveyance self-test routine
> > recommended polling time:        (   5) minutes.
> > SCT capabilities:              (0x303f) SCT Status supported.
> > 
> >                                         SCT Error Recovery Control
> > 
> > supported.
> > 
> >                                         SCT Feature Control supported.
> >                                         SCT Data Table supported.
> > 
> > SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
> > Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> > ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
> > UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
> > 
> >   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x002f   200   200   051    Pre-fail
> > 
> > Always       -       0
> > 
> >   3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0027   239   235   021    Pre-fail
> > 
> > Always       -       1050
> > 
> >   4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age
> > 
> > Always       -       935
> > 
> >   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   200   200   140    Pre-fail
> > 
> > Always       -       0
> > 
> >   7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age
> > 
> > Always       -       0
> > 
> >   9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   091   091   000    Old_age
> > 
> > Always       -       7281
> > 
> >  10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age
> > 
> > Always       -       0
> > 
> >  11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age
> > 
> > Always       -       0
> > 
> >  12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age
> > 
> > Always       -       933
> > 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age
> > Always       -       27
> > 193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age
> > Always       -       907
> > 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   106   086   000    Old_age
> > Always       -       41
> > 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age
> > Always       -       0
> > 197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age
> > Always       -       0
> > 198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   200   200   000    Old_age
> > Offline      -       0
> > 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age
> > Always       -       0
> > 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0008   200   200   000    Old_age
> > Offline      -       0
> 
> Is this 193 Load_Cycle_Count an issue only on the green drives?
> 
> I have a very old Compaq laptop here that shows:
> 
> # smartctl -A /dev/sda | egrep "Power_On|Load_Cycle"
>   9 Power_On_Hours          0x0012   055   055   000    Old_age   Always
> -       19830
> 193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0012   001   001   000    Old_age   Always
> -       1739734
> 
> Admittedly, there are some 60 errors on it (having been used extensively on
> bouncy trains, buses, aeroplanes, etc) but it is still refusing to die ...
> O_O
> 
> It is a Hitachi 20G
> 
> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> Model Family:     Hitachi Travelstar 80GN
> Device Model:     IC25N020ATMR04-0
> Serial Number:    MRX107K1DS623H
> Firmware Version: MO1OAD5A
> User Capacity:    20,003,880,960 bytes [20.0 GB]
> Sector Size:      512 bytes logical/physical
> Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> ATA Version is:   6
> ATA Standard is:  ATA/ATAPI-6 T13 1410D revision 3a
> Local Time is:    Sat May 12 10:30:13 2012 BST
> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> SMART support is: Enabled
> 
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===

SAMSUNG HD502IJ
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  
WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   100   100   051    Pre-fail  Always       
-       0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0007   085   085   011    Pre-fail  Always       
-       5480
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   098   098   000    Old_age   Always       
-       1864
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       
-       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   100   100   051    Pre-fail  Always       
-       0
  8 Seek_Time_Performance   0x0025   100   100   015    Pre-fail  Offline      -       
10814
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   096   096   000    Old_age   Always       
-       20178
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0033   100   100   051    Pre-fail  Always       
-       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   098   098   000    Old_age   Always       
-       1854
 13 Read_Soft_Error_Rate    0x000e   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       8
184 End-to-End_Error        0x0033   100   100   099    Pre-fail  Always       
-       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   082   065   000    Old_age   Always       
-       18 (Min/Max 13/18)
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   079   061   000    Old_age   Always       
-       21 (Min/Max 13/21)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       2587
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       
0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x000a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate    0x000a   253   253   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0


SAMSUNG HD753LJ:

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  
WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   100   100   051    Pre-fail  Always       
-       0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0007   075   075   011    Pre-fail  Always       
-       8330
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age   Always       
-       1399
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       
-       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   100   100   051    Pre-fail  Always       
-       0
  8 Seek_Time_Performance   0x0025   100   100   015    Pre-fail  Offline      -       
10041
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   097   097   000    Old_age   Always       
-       16941
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0033   100   100   051    Pre-fail  Always       
-       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age   Always       
-       1397
 13 Read_Soft_Error_Rate    0x000e   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
184 End-to-End_Error        0x0033   100   100   000    Pre-fail  Always       
-       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   081   065   000    Old_age   Always       
-       19 (Min/Max 12/19)
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   077   064   000    Old_age   Always       
-       23 (Min/Max 12/23)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       1412
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       
0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x000a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate    0x000a   253   253   000    Old_age   Always       
-       0

i have some more disks, but those clocked the most hours.


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