[gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Grant]

My motherboard is getting flaky and it's time for a new one.  I have
an AMD 6000+ CPU, 4GB DDR2/800 RAM, 2TB SATA2 HD, Blu-Ray burner, PCI
wireless card, 400W power supply, and ATX case.  I could replace any
of these components if it's worthwhile for some new feature, but I may
as well keep them if it's not.

The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I
also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea.  The system is for
playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever.  If you're familiar
with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far
as a motherboard and other components?  Any features a Gentoo'er
should look for?

- Grant

[gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Grant]

> My motherboard is getting flaky and it's time for a new one.  I have
> an AMD 6000+ CPU, 4GB DDR2/800 RAM, 2TB SATA2 HD, Blu-Ray burner, PCI
> wireless card, 400W power supply, and ATX case.  I could replace any
> of these components if it's worthwhile for some new feature, but I may
> as well keep them if it's not.
>
> The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I
> also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea.  The system is for
> playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever.  If you're familiar
> with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far
> as a motherboard and other components?  Any features a Gentoo'er
> should look for?
>
> - Grant

Is Nvidia still the way to go instead of ATI?  I use the nouveau
drivers with my onboard Nvidia chipset now and they've been fine for
the most part.  I use a threaded ffmpeg to decode HD video instead of
VDPAU so I don't bother with nvidia-drivers.

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Dale]

Grant wrote:
>> My motherboard is getting flaky and it's time for a new one.  I have
>> an AMD 6000+ CPU, 4GB DDR2/800 RAM, 2TB SATA2 HD, Blu-Ray burner, PCI
>> wireless card, 400W power supply, and ATX case.  I could replace any
>> of these components if it's worthwhile for some new feature, but I may
>> as well keep them if it's not.
>>
>> The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I
>> also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea.  The system is for
>> playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever.  If you're familiar
>> with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far
>> as a motherboard and other components?  Any features a Gentoo'er
>> should look for?
>>
>> - Grant
>>      
> Is Nvidia still the way to go instead of ATI?  I use the nouveau
> drivers with my onboard Nvidia chipset now and they've been fine for
> the most part.  I use a threaded ffmpeg to decode HD video instead of
> VDPAU so I don't bother with nvidia-drivers.
>
> - Grant
>
>
>    


I don't have any experience with ATI but I still use Nvidia and their 
drivers.  I haven't had any problems as of yet.  I did have a video 
problem once but it was a kernel problem.  For me, I see no need in me 
getting a ATI card.  That's just me.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Grant]

>> Is Nvidia still the way to go instead of ATI?  I use the nouveau
>> drivers with my onboard Nvidia chipset now and they've been fine for
>> the most part.  I use a threaded ffmpeg to decode HD video instead of
>> VDPAU so I don't bother with nvidia-drivers.
>>
>> - Grant
>
> I don't have any experience with ATI but I still use Nvidia and their
> drivers.  I haven't had any problems as of yet.  I did have a video problem
> once but it was a kernel problem.  For me, I see no need in me getting a ATI
> card.  That's just me.
>
> Dale

I've just read that Nvidia no longer makes onboard video.  Has anyone
else heard that?

Are server motherboard more reliable?

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Dale]

Grant wrote:
>>> Is Nvidia still the way to go instead of ATI?  I use the nouveau
>>> drivers with my onboard Nvidia chipset now and they've been fine for
>>> the most part.  I use a threaded ffmpeg to decode HD video instead of
>>> VDPAU so I don't bother with nvidia-drivers.
>>>
>>> - Grant
>>>        
>> I don't have any experience with ATI but I still use Nvidia and their
>> drivers.  I haven't had any problems as of yet.  I did have a video problem
>> once but it was a kernel problem.  For me, I see no need in me getting a ATI
>> card.  That's just me.
>>
>> Dale
>>      
> I've just read that Nvidia no longer makes onboard video.  Has anyone
> else heard that?
>
> Are server motherboard more reliable?
>
> - Grant
>
>
>    


I looked around on newegg and found that there are several mobos that 
have Nvidia video built in.  It seems they do still make them.  I'm not 
sure if the video or mobos are any that you would like but they are 
being made at least.

Me, I tend to buy video cards.  They have upgrade options without having 
to put in a new mobo.  YMMV tho.

No idea on server boards. I would think they would be more reliable tho.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Grant]

>>>> Is Nvidia still the way to go instead of ATI?  I use the nouveau
>>>> drivers with my onboard Nvidia chipset now and they've been fine for
>>>> the most part.  I use a threaded ffmpeg to decode HD video instead of
>>>> VDPAU so I don't bother with nvidia-drivers.
>>>>
>>>> - Grant
>>>>
>>> I don't have any experience with ATI but I still use Nvidia and their
>>> drivers.  I haven't had any problems as of yet.  I did have a video
>>> problem
>>> once but it was a kernel problem.  For me, I see no need in me getting a
>>> ATI
>>> card.  That's just me.
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>> I've just read that Nvidia no longer makes onboard video.  Has anyone
>> else heard that?
>>
>> Are server motherboard more reliable?
>>
>> - Grant
>
> I looked around on newegg and found that there are several mobos that have
> Nvidia video built in.  It seems they do still make them.  I'm not sure if
> the video or mobos are any that you would like but they are being made at
> least.

I bet that's just old stock.  I can't find a single motherboard with
Nvidia graphics and an AM3+ or FM1 socket on newegg.com.

- Grant


> Me, I tend to buy video cards.  They have upgrade options without having to
> put in a new mobo.  YMMV tho.
>
> No idea on server boards. I would think they would be more reliable tho.
>
> Dale

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Dale]

Grant wrote:
> I bet that's just old stock.  I can't find a single motherboard with
> Nvidia graphics and an AM3+ or FM1 socket on newegg.com.
>
> - Grant
>
>
>    

I didn't see a AM3+ either.  May have to buy a mobo and a separate video 
card.  At least that way, you can get what you really want.  This is one 
reason I buy separate pieces.  I don't need a supped up video card but 
do want a decent mobo.  When I buy separately, I can put a little extra 
into my mobo and save on the card.  Of course, my last build has a 
donated card.  Works great for me.  Does stumble a little on the very HD 
video of the Asteroid Galaxy Tour singing the Golden Age tho.  Since it 
does it in the same place and only on the one video, I'm wondering if it 
was recorded that way somehow.  :/

You may want to check pricewatch, tigerdirect and just froogle for a 
while.  Eventually you can narrow down what you are looking for and just 
find the better deal. It's a plan anyway.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Grant]

>> I bet that's just old stock.  I can't find a single motherboard with
>> Nvidia graphics and an AM3+ or FM1 socket on newegg.com.
>>
>> - Grant
>
> I didn't see a AM3+ either.  May have to buy a mobo and a separate video
> card.  At least that way, you can get what you really want.  This is one
> reason I buy separate pieces.  I don't need a supped up video card but do
> want a decent mobo.  When I buy separately, I can put a little extra into my
> mobo and save on the card.  Of course, my last build has a donated card.
>  Works great for me.  Does stumble a little on the very HD video of the
> Asteroid Galaxy Tour singing the Golden Age tho.  Since it does it in the
> same place and only on the one video, I'm wondering if it was recorded that
> way somehow.  :/
>
> You may want to check pricewatch, tigerdirect and just froogle for a while.
>  Eventually you can narrow down what you are looking for and just find the
> better deal. It's a plan anyway.
>
> Dale

Thanks Dale.  I'm reading that onboard ATI graphics are fine if you
don't need 3D and can use the open-source driver.  I guess I'll give
it a try.

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[meino.cramer]

Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> [11-07-03 03:08]:
> Grant wrote:
> >>>Is Nvidia still the way to go instead of ATI?  I use the nouveau
> >>>drivers with my onboard Nvidia chipset now and they've been fine for
> >>>the most part.  I use a threaded ffmpeg to decode HD video instead 
> >>>of
> >>>VDPAU so I don't bother with nvidia-drivers.
> >>>
> >>>- Grant
> >>>       
> >>I don't have any experience with ATI but I still use Nvidia and their
> >>drivers.  I haven't had any problems as of yet.  I did have a video 
> >>problem
> >>once but it was a kernel problem.  For me, I see no need in me 
> >>getting a ATI
> >>card.  That's just me.
> >>
> >>Dale
> >>     
> >I've just read that Nvidia no longer makes onboard video.  Has anyone
> >else heard that?
> >
> >Are server motherboard more reliable?
> >
> >- Grant
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> 
> I looked around on newegg and found that there are several mobos that 
> have Nvidia video built in.  It seems they do still make them.  I'm not 
> sure if the video or mobos are any that you would like but they are 
> being made at least.
> 
> Me, I tend to buy video cards.  They have upgrade options without 
> having to put in a new mobo.  YMMV tho.
> 
> No idea on server boards. I would think they would be more reliable 
> tho.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)
> 

I prefer overclocker boards and dont overclock them. Most of them
have a better heat dissipation and the PCB has a better layout
HF-wise.

Only my two cent...you currency may vary ;)

Best regards
mcc

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Dale]

meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
> Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  [11-07-03 03:08]:
>    
>> Grant wrote:
>>      
>>>>> Is Nvidia still the way to go instead of ATI?  I use the nouveau
>>>>> drivers with my onboard Nvidia chipset now and they've been fine for
>>>>> the most part.  I use a threaded ffmpeg to decode HD video instead
>>>>> of
>>>>> VDPAU so I don't bother with nvidia-drivers.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Grant
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>> I don't have any experience with ATI but I still use Nvidia and their
>>>> drivers.  I haven't had any problems as of yet.  I did have a video
>>>> problem
>>>> once but it was a kernel problem.  For me, I see no need in me
>>>> getting a ATI
>>>> card.  That's just me.
>>>>
>>>> Dale
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> I've just read that Nvidia no longer makes onboard video.  Has anyone
>>> else heard that?
>>>
>>> Are server motherboard more reliable?
>>>
>>> - Grant
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>
>> I looked around on newegg and found that there are several mobos that
>> have Nvidia video built in.  It seems they do still make them.  I'm not
>> sure if the video or mobos are any that you would like but they are
>> being made at least.
>>
>> Me, I tend to buy video cards.  They have upgrade options without
>> having to put in a new mobo.  YMMV tho.
>>
>> No idea on server boards. I would think they would be more reliable
>> tho.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>
>>      
> I prefer overclocker boards and dont overclock them. Most of them
> have a better heat dissipation and the PCB has a better layout
> HF-wise.
>
> Only my two cent...you currency may vary ;)
>
> Best regards
> mcc
>
>
>    

I have a Cooler Master HAF932 case.  Cooling is not a issue here.  BTW, 
I have a Gigabyte board that is overclockable.  I have huge heatsinks in 
case I decide to but mostly just like to keep everything cool.  Oh, no 
water here either.  I don't even have drinks around my rig so why put 
water into it.  o_O

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday 02 July 2011 20:36:55 Dale wrote:

> I see no need in me getting a ATI card. That's just me.

It's also me. NVidia has been straightforward for years: just plug it in and 
go. Choose the closed-source driver, or nowadays the Nouveau driver, and 
everything Just Works. Mind you, I don't play computer games (life's just 
too short) and so I've no need of "3D".

-- 
Rgds
Peter

[gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 07/02/2011 09:06 PM, Grant wrote:
>> The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I
>> also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea.  The system is for
>> playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever.  If you're familiar
>> with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far
>> as a motherboard and other components?  Any features a Gentoo'er
>> should look for?
>>
>> - Grant
>
> Is Nvidia still the way to go instead of ATI?

Yep.  Unless you have old ATI hardware.  Current hardware doesn't work 
well.  Since he wants to buy new stuff, NVidia is recommended.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Grant]

>>> The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I
>>> also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea.  The system is for
>>> playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever.  If you're familiar
>>> with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far
>>> as a motherboard and other components?  Any features a Gentoo'er
>>> should look for?
>>>
>>> - Grant
>>
>> Is Nvidia still the way to go instead of ATI?
>
> Yep.  Unless you have old ATI hardware.  Current hardware doesn't work well.
>  Since he wants to buy new stuff, NVidia is recommended.

That's what I was afraid of.  The fact that Nvidia has stopped making
onboard video will pose a problem.  I could install an Nvidia video
card but I'm trying to keep temps low and I don't want a third fan in
the case.

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[meino.cramer]

Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> [11-07-03 01:12]:
> >>> The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I
> >>> also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea.  The system is for
> >>> playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever.  If you're familiar
> >>> with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far
> >>> as a motherboard and other components?  Any features a Gentoo'er
> >>> should look for?
> >>>
> >>> - Grant
> >>
> >> Is Nvidia still the way to go instead of ATI?
> >
> > Yep.  Unless you have old ATI hardware.  Current hardware doesn't work well.
> >  Since he wants to buy new stuff, NVidia is recommended.
> 
> That's what I was afraid of.  The fact that Nvidia has stopped making
> onboard video will pose a problem.  I could install an Nvidia video
> card but I'm trying to keep temps low and I don't want a third fan in
> the case.
> 
> - Grant
> 

Hi Grant,

half a year ago my motherboard lost its blue smoke and I had to buy a
new PC (the rest of the old one was outdated).

One of my thoughts was: No graphics card with a fan!

But the guy in the store said, that graphics cards without a fan has a
problem: Either they are to slow (less heat) to be bought by the
people or they are fast enough to be bought, but they will die
sooner/easier due to a too hot GPU. 

He gave me a card with fans and said: "If you hear something too loud
-- bring it back."
I tested the card and: Nothing. The only thing I hear is the very
quiet fan of the PC case.

The card is a: MSI N430GT PCI Express 2.0.

It has two fans, which means lesser noise since both fans can run
at lower speed.

You said, you will not need a gamer graphics card. But if you are a
fan of rendering (Blender,Luxrendere etc...) you may consider a card
with more muscles since GPU based rendering is the way to go.

BUT:
When reading the driver informations from nvidia I found that the
sections saying "Added support for...." are still missing the GT 430.
I dont know whether this has any impact to you work -- the card runs
well with Linux and the OpenGL-based Blender does not have any
problems (its GPU based render engine is currently under development
so I didnt test that...)

If you are intereseted in the setup of my PC, post me a mail!

Best regards,
mcc

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[JD]

On 07/02/2011 06:26 PM, meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
> Grant<emailgrant@gmail.com>  [11-07-03 01:12]:
>>>>> The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I
>>>>> also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea.  The system is for
>>>>> playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever.  If you're familiar
>>>>> with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far
>>>>> as a motherboard and other components?  Any features a Gentoo'er
>>>>> should look for?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Grant
>>>> Is Nvidia still the way to go instead of ATI?
>>> Yep.  Unless you have old ATI hardware.  Current hardware doesn't work well.
>>>   Since he wants to buy new stuff, NVidia is recommended.
>> That's what I was afraid of.  The fact that Nvidia has stopped making
>> onboard video will pose a problem.  I could install an Nvidia video
>> card but I'm trying to keep temps low and I don't want a third fan in
>> the case.
>>
>> - Grant
>>
> Hi Grant,
>
> half a year ago my motherboard lost its blue smoke and I had to buy a
> new PC (the rest of the old one was outdated).
>
> One of my thoughts was: No graphics card with a fan!
>
> But the guy in the store said, that graphics cards without a fan has a
> problem: Either they are to slow (less heat) to be bought by the
> people or they are fast enough to be bought, but they will die
> sooner/easier due to a too hot GPU.
>
> He gave me a card with fans and said: "If you hear something too loud
> -- bring it back."
> I tested the card and: Nothing. The only thing I hear is the very
> quiet fan of the PC case.
>
> The card is a: MSI N430GT PCI Express 2.0.
>
> It has two fans, which means lesser noise since both fans can run
> at lower speed.
>
> You said, you will not need a gamer graphics card. But if you are a
> fan of rendering (Blender,Luxrendere etc...) you may consider a card
> with more muscles since GPU based rendering is the way to go.
>
> BUT:
> When reading the driver informations from nvidia I found that the
> sections saying "Added support for...." are still missing the GT 430.
> I dont know whether this has any impact to you work -- the card runs
> well with Linux and the OpenGL-based Blender does not have any
> problems (its GPU based render engine is currently under development
> so I didnt test that...)
>
> If you are intereseted in the setup of my PC, post me a mail!
>
> Best regards,
> mcc
Interesting recommendation.
Which of the two has a better history of providing good
support for linux drivers for their products?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[meino.cramer]

JD <jd1008@gmail.com> [11-07-03 05:57]:
> On 07/02/2011 06:26 PM, meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
> >Grant<emailgrant@gmail.com>  [11-07-03 01:12]:
> >>>>>The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility 
> >>>>>but I
> >>>>>also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea.  The system is 
> >>>>>for
> >>>>>playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever.  If you're 
> >>>>>familiar
> >>>>>with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as 
> >>>>>far
> >>>>>as a motherboard and other components?  Any features a Gentoo'er
> >>>>>should look for?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>- Grant
> >>>>Is Nvidia still the way to go instead of ATI?
> >>>Yep.  Unless you have old ATI hardware.  Current hardware doesn't 
> >>>work well.
> >>>  Since he wants to buy new stuff, NVidia is recommended.
> >>That's what I was afraid of.  The fact that Nvidia has stopped making
> >>onboard video will pose a problem.  I could install an Nvidia video
> >>card but I'm trying to keep temps low and I don't want a third fan in
> >>the case.
> >>
> >>- Grant
> >>
> >Hi Grant,
> >
> >half a year ago my motherboard lost its blue smoke and I had to buy a
> >new PC (the rest of the old one was outdated).
> >
> >One of my thoughts was: No graphics card with a fan!
> >
> >But the guy in the store said, that graphics cards without a fan has a
> >problem: Either they are to slow (less heat) to be bought by the
> >people or they are fast enough to be bought, but they will die
> >sooner/easier due to a too hot GPU.
> >
> >He gave me a card with fans and said: "If you hear something too loud
> >-- bring it back."
> >I tested the card and: Nothing. The only thing I hear is the very
> >quiet fan of the PC case.
> >
> >The card is a: MSI N430GT PCI Express 2.0.
> >
> >It has two fans, which means lesser noise since both fans can run
> >at lower speed.
> >
> >You said, you will not need a gamer graphics card. But if you are a
> >fan of rendering (Blender,Luxrendere etc...) you may consider a card
> >with more muscles since GPU based rendering is the way to go.
> >
> >BUT:
> >When reading the driver informations from nvidia I found that the
> >sections saying "Added support for...." are still missing the GT 430.
> >I dont know whether this has any impact to you work -- the card runs
> >well with Linux and the OpenGL-based Blender does not have any
> >problems (its GPU based render engine is currently under development
> >so I didnt test that...)
> >
> >If you are intereseted in the setup of my PC, post me a mail!
> >
> >Best regards,
> >mcc
> Interesting recommendation.
> Which of the two has a better history of providing good
> support for linux drivers for their products?
> 
> 
> 
...?... Oh, I fear, once again my English damaged what I want to say...

NVidia produces the chipsets but dont build graphics cards. They only
make a reference board and offer that for $$$ to manufacturers.

MSI is one of them. 

The MSI-card I use is a 100% "NVidia card". It runs to 100% with the
original genuine nvidia-drivers. And on the boards are the original
NVidia GPUs.

GT 430 is the name of the GPU family.

Or...what was the question? :) 8) ;)

Best regards,
mcc

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[pk]

On 2011-07-02 17:41, Grant wrote:
> My motherboard is getting flaky and it's time for a new one.  I have
> an AMD 6000+ CPU, 4GB DDR2/800 RAM, 2TB SATA2 HD, Blu-Ray burner, PCI
> wireless card, 400W power supply, and ATX case.  I could replace any
> of these components if it's worthwhile for some new feature, but I may
> as well keep them if it's not.

How do you know it's the motherboard and not the PSU for instance?

> The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I
> also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea.  The system is for

HDMI is available on most (all?) modern graphics cards, not sure if
built-ins have them though... USB 3 cards are also available.

> playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever.  If you're familiar

Sounds like you want a "htpc" setup.

> with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far
> as a motherboard and other components?  Any features a Gentoo'er
> should look for?

Decide roughly (Intel/AMD chipsets, features, expansion capabilities
etc.) on what motherboard you want and compare reviews of it...

I know others swear by Nvidia graphics but personally I will not touch
them (not for chipsets either due to lackluster/no open driver linux
support)... it's AMD (formerly ATI) for me (just don't buy the latest,
greatest unless you want to wait for open driver support, even though
they've seem to have picked up the pace). AMD does have some great
fanless graphics cards, perfect for htpc...

HTH

Best regards

Peter K

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Grant]

>> My motherboard is getting flaky and it's time for a new one.  I have
>> an AMD 6000+ CPU, 4GB DDR2/800 RAM, 2TB SATA2 HD, Blu-Ray burner, PCI
>> wireless card, 400W power supply, and ATX case.  I could replace any
>> of these components if it's worthwhile for some new feature, but I may
>> as well keep them if it's not.
>
> How do you know it's the motherboard and not the PSU for instance?

You're right, but I want HDMI and USB 3.0 so I figure I may as well
switch the motherboard and then the PSU if the problem doesn't
disappear.

>> The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I
>> also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea.  The system is for
>
> HDMI is available on most (all?) modern graphics cards, not sure if
> built-ins have them though... USB 3 cards are also available.

Yeah, a video card and USB card would cost roughly the same as a new
motherboard and the video card would be a new source of heat and/or
noise.

>> playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever.  If you're familiar
>
> Sounds like you want a "htpc" setup.

I guess.  Gentoo has been playing my music, movies, and TV for many
years now.  I use a wireless keyboard from the couch.  Just a normal
xfce4 desktop.  It's great.

>> with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far
>> as a motherboard and other components?  Any features a Gentoo'er
>> should look for?
>
> Decide roughly (Intel/AMD chipsets, features, expansion capabilities
> etc.) on what motherboard you want and compare reviews of it...

I'm reading that ASUS and Gigabyte are the way to go for reliability.

> I know others swear by Nvidia graphics but personally I will not touch
> them (not for chipsets either due to lackluster/no open driver linux
> support)... it's AMD (formerly ATI) for me (just don't buy the latest,
> greatest unless you want to wait for open driver support, even though

Yeah I'm a little worried about that with the motherboard.  If
necessary I can keep limping along with my current motherboard while I
wait for drivers for the new one.

- Grant


> they've seem to have picked up the pace). AMD does have some great
> fanless graphics cards, perfect for htpc...
>
> HTH
>
> Best regards
>
> Peter K

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Dale]

Grant wrote:
>
> I'm reading that ASUS and Gigabyte are the way to go for reliability.
>
> - Grant
>
>    

I can brag about my Gigabyte.  When I was doing research on my newest 
rig, Gigabyte seemed to be the highest rated.  As we know, that 
changes.  When I built a rig several years ago, it was Abit.   The only 
complaint I have with my Gigabyte is the RAM sockets are close to the 
CPU.  If they were just a half inch farther over it would be awesome.  
My CPU cooler fan touched the top of the memory coolers and I got the 
shortest I could find at the time, that were worth having anyway.

I think I had a ASUS before but can't recall since it was not one of my 
main rigs.  I think it was in a rig I built for a friend of mine.  His 
house burnt so no way to know for sure.  It melted.  :-(  R.I.P.  I 
wouldn't complain about it tho.  It worked fine and was stable even 
during the Gentoo compiles.

Most of this depends on what you want and what you can afford.  I never 
get the latest greatest as it costs to much.  You may want and can 
afford the latest greatest tho.  I would just check out the reviews once 
you get down to a few mobos and see if any problems are reported.  
Making sure everything is Linux compatable is a good idea too.  I got a 
link to a site of you don't already have one.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[pk]

On 2011-07-04 18:30, Grant wrote:

> I'm reading that ASUS and Gigabyte are the way to go for reliability.

For consumer oriented motherboards, I feel the same.

> Yeah I'm a little worried about that with the motherboard.  If
> necessary I can keep limping along with my current motherboard while I
> wait for drivers for the new one.

Have you decided on a AM3+ socket motherboard or would you consider
alternatives? If AMD "floats your boat", wait a while until the Llanos
comes out[1]; an 4 core APU with integrated graphics core at 65W... Of
course you need to get a motherboard that support HDMI out... but for a
Gentoo htpc that would be a "perfect" balance between compiling power
and low power utilisation, no?

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Fusion_microprocessors#Llano

Best regards

Peter K

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Grant]

>> I'm reading that ASUS and Gigabyte are the way to go for reliability.
>
> For consumer oriented motherboards, I feel the same.
>
>> Yeah I'm a little worried about that with the motherboard.  If
>> necessary I can keep limping along with my current motherboard while I
>> wait for drivers for the new one.
>
> Have you decided on a AM3+ socket motherboard or would you consider
> alternatives? If AMD "floats your boat", wait a while until the Llanos
> comes out[1]; an 4 core APU with integrated graphics core at 65W... Of
> course you need to get a motherboard that support HDMI out... but for a
> Gentoo htpc that would be a "perfect" balance between compiling power
> and low power utilisation, no?
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Fusion_microprocessors#Llano
>
> Best regards
>
> Peter K

That's the FM1 socket, right?  I only see two FM1 CPUs on newegg.com
right now.  They're quad-core and 100W.  I guess the advantage there
is they have graphics on the CPU.  A 65W CPU would be better but when
it comes out I suppose.

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[pk]

On 2011-07-04 22:32, Grant wrote:

> That's the FM1 socket, right?  I only see two FM1 CPUs on newegg.com

Yep.

> right now.  They're quad-core and 100W.  I guess the advantage there
> is they have graphics on the CPU.  A 65W CPU would be better but when
> it comes out I suppose.

Yes, since a htpc doesn't need a powerful cpu (or a powerful gpu) I
would wait for the low power version. Acc. to Wikipedia the A6-3600/3800
should be released (30th of June) so it shouldn't take long for Newegg
to get them? I guess you could always ask them...

My thinking is this: A htpc doesn't need a powerful cpu/gpu combo but if
you're running Gentoo on it, and planning to do the compiling on the
machine itself, it's still nice to have a few cores available. If you
are patient or can do cross-compiling (I haven't actually tried these
myself) on another machine there are even lower power alternatives
(Intel Atom, AMD Fusion):

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_CPU_on_Board/E35M1M/
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_CPU_on_Board/AT5IONTI/#overview
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3681#ov

http://vr-zone.com/articles/asus-at5iont-i-review/11811-10.html

Haven't looked at the details, just did quick search...

Well, I guess you could find even lower power alternatives as well...
ARM maybe? But that's another story!

Best regards

Peter K

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 07/05/2011 12:39 AM, pk wrote:
> 
> Yes, since a htpc doesn't need a powerful cpu (or a powerful gpu)

My learned-this-the-hard-way advice: while this is generally true, if
you ever come across a 720 or 1080p video that doesn't use a
hardware-accelerated codec, you would rather the HTPC not sound like
it's about to launch itself into orbit doing software decoding.

And if you're going to keep it in a cabinet, you would probably also
rather said cabinet not catch fire (I had to cut holes in the back and
mount fans).

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Grant]

>> Yes, since a htpc doesn't need a powerful cpu (or a powerful gpu)
>
> My learned-this-the-hard-way advice: while this is generally true, if
> you ever come across a 720 or 1080p video that doesn't use a
> hardware-accelerated codec, you would rather the HTPC not sound like
> it's about to launch itself into orbit doing software decoding.

Completely true.  I switched from nvidia-drivers to nouveau and now I
rely on ffmpeg threads to decode 1080p.  It works great most of the
time.  There are some videos that won't decode via threads, they
return some sort of "cannot parallelize" error.

I went with this Phenom II X4 3.7Ghz hog:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103934

I wonder if I'll be able to decode 1080p in software on a single core
now without losing A/V sync.  I kinda doubt it.  I've been on an
Athlon X2 3.1Ghz.

> And if you're going to keep it in a cabinet, you would probably also
> rather said cabinet not catch fire (I had to cut holes in the back and
> mount fans).

I'm discovering that fans which are said to be very quiet actually
are.  I'm going to increase my case fans from 0 to 2 along with this
aftermarket CPU cooler:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608016

Thanks a lot for everyone's help.

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Wednesday 06 July 2011 11:54:29 Grant wrote:
> >> Yes, since a htpc doesn't need a powerful cpu (or a powerful gpu)> 
> > My learned-this-the-hard-way advice: while this is generally true, if> you 
ever come across a 720 or 1080p video that doesn't use a> hardware-accelerated 
codec, you would rather the HTPC not sound like> it's about to launch itself 
into orbit doing software decoding.
> Completely true.  I switched from nvidia-drivers to nouveau and now Irely on 
ffmpeg threads to decode 1080p.  It works great most of thetime.  There are 
some videos that won't decode via threads, theyreturn some sort of "cannot 
parallelize" error.
> I went with this Phenom II X4 3.7Ghz hog:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103934
> I wonder if I'll be able to decode 1080p in software on a single corenow 
without losing A/V sync.  I kinda doubt it.  I've been on anAthlon X2 3.1Ghz.
> > And if you're going to keep it in a cabinet, you would probably also> 
rather said cabinet not catch fire (I had to cut holes in the back and> mount 
fans).
> I'm discovering that fans which are said to be very quiet actuallyare.  I'm 
going to increase my case fans from 0 to 2 along with thisaftermarket CPU 
cooler:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608016
> Thanks a lot for everyone's help.
> - Grant

oh.. a tower cooler.. and only 92mm... hm..

well with fans bigger = better. A 14cm monster can push the same amount of air 
as a 12cm or 8cm fan with a lot less rpm. The less rpm the better.

I can't hear any of my 4 14cm fans ;)
-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Grant]

>> >> Yes, since a htpc doesn't need a powerful cpu (or a powerful gpu)>
>> > My learned-this-the-hard-way advice: while this is generally true, if> you
> ever come across a 720 or 1080p video that doesn't use a> hardware-accelerated
> codec, you would rather the HTPC not sound like> it's about to launch itself
> into orbit doing software decoding.
>> Completely true.  I switched from nvidia-drivers to nouveau and now Irely on
> ffmpeg threads to decode 1080p.  It works great most of thetime.  There are
> some videos that won't decode via threads, theyreturn some sort of "cannot
> parallelize" error.
>> I went with this Phenom II X4 3.7Ghz hog:
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103934
>> I wonder if I'll be able to decode 1080p in software on a single corenow
> without losing A/V sync.  I kinda doubt it.  I've been on anAthlon X2 3.1Ghz.
>> > And if you're going to keep it in a cabinet, you would probably also>
> rather said cabinet not catch fire (I had to cut holes in the back and> mount
> fans).
>> I'm discovering that fans which are said to be very quiet actuallyare.  I'm
> going to increase my case fans from 0 to 2 along with thisaftermarket CPU
> cooler:
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608016
>> Thanks a lot for everyone's help.
>> - Grant
>
> oh.. a tower cooler.. and only 92mm... hm..

Yeah I need the air to blow out the back of the desktop case since my
printer/scanner sits on top of the case and blocks the top air vents.
92mm is all this case can fit.  A few mm taller and it would make
contact with the top of the case.

- Grant


> well with fans bigger = better. A 14cm monster can push the same amount of air
> as a 12cm or 8cm fan with a lot less rpm. The less rpm the better.
>
> I can't hear any of my 4 14cm fans ;)

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Stroller]

On 6 July 2011, at 19:54, Grant wrote:
> ...
> I wonder if I'll be able to decode 1080p in software on a single core
> now without losing A/V sync.  I kinda doubt it.  I've been on an
> Athlon X2 3.1Ghz.

Note that some 1080p videos are harder to decode than others. The "birds scene" from the BBC's Planet Earth documentary is widely used as test video. It's h264 and I believe the encoding is valid but "poorly mastered"; it doesn't play smoothly on either my Mac or my STB (with a dedicated hardware decoding chip), but I *presume* it plays on many commodity blu-ray players. I'm sure I must have tested it on my PS3 but I can't recall how it performs.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Grant]

>>> Yes, since a htpc doesn't need a powerful cpu (or a powerful gpu)
>>
>> My learned-this-the-hard-way advice: while this is generally true, if
>> you ever come across a 720 or 1080p video that doesn't use a
>> hardware-accelerated codec, you would rather the HTPC not sound like
>> it's about to launch itself into orbit doing software decoding.
>
> Completely true.  I switched from nvidia-drivers to nouveau and now I
> rely on ffmpeg threads to decode 1080p.  It works great most of the
> time.  There are some videos that won't decode via threads, they
> return some sort of "cannot parallelize" error.
>
> I went with this Phenom II X4 3.7Ghz hog:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103934
>
> I wonder if I'll be able to decode 1080p in software on a single core
> now without losing A/V sync.  I kinda doubt it.  I've been on an
> Athlon X2 3.1Ghz.
>
>> And if you're going to keep it in a cabinet, you would probably also
>> rather said cabinet not catch fire (I had to cut holes in the back and
>> mount fans).
>
> I'm discovering that fans which are said to be very quiet actually
> are.  I'm going to increase my case fans from 0 to 2 along with this
> aftermarket CPU cooler:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608016
>
> Thanks a lot for everyone's help.
>
> - Grant

I've put together the new system and everything works really well.
Here's the Gigabyte motherboard:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128490

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Dale]

Grant wrote:
>>>> Yes, since a htpc doesn't need a powerful cpu (or a powerful gpu)
>>>>          
>>> My learned-this-the-hard-way advice: while this is generally true, if
>>> you ever come across a 720 or 1080p video that doesn't use a
>>> hardware-accelerated codec, you would rather the HTPC not sound like
>>> it's about to launch itself into orbit doing software decoding.
>>>        
>> Completely true.  I switched from nvidia-drivers to nouveau and now I
>> rely on ffmpeg threads to decode 1080p.  It works great most of the
>> time.  There are some videos that won't decode via threads, they
>> return some sort of "cannot parallelize" error.
>>
>> I went with this Phenom II X4 3.7Ghz hog:
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103934
>>
>> I wonder if I'll be able to decode 1080p in software on a single core
>> now without losing A/V sync.  I kinda doubt it.  I've been on an
>> Athlon X2 3.1Ghz.
>>
>>      
>>> And if you're going to keep it in a cabinet, you would probably also
>>> rather said cabinet not catch fire (I had to cut holes in the back and
>>> mount fans).
>>>        
>> I'm discovering that fans which are said to be very quiet actually
>> are.  I'm going to increase my case fans from 0 to 2 along with this
>> aftermarket CPU cooler:
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608016
>>
>> Thanks a lot for everyone's help.
>>
>> - Grant
>>      
> I've put together the new system and everything works really well.
> Here's the Gigabyte motherboard:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128490
>
> - Grant
>
>
>    


Nice mobo.  I always want a lot of slots but rarely use them.  I'm stuck 
in the old days where the mobo was basically a CPU and ram with a floppy 
port hanging off the side.  lol

Give us a speed report.  What CPU did you get?  Cores and all.  Heck, 
I'm nosey today.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Grant]

>> I've put together the new system and everything works really well.
>> Here's the Gigabyte motherboard:
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128490
>>
>> - Grant
>>
> Nice mobo.  I always want a lot of slots but rarely use them.  I'm stuck in
> the old days where the mobo was basically a CPU and ram with a floppy port
> hanging off the side.  lol
>
> Give us a speed report.  What CPU did you get?  Cores and all.  Heck, I'm
> nosey today.

The thing is fast.  4 cores at 3.7Ghz:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103934

I watched My Cousin Vinny on Blu-Ray last night without threading
ffmpeg and without VDPAU and it never lost A/V sync for even a moment.
 It was an h264 codec.  Just a few dropped frames I'd say.  The Hulu
Desktop fullscreen image no longer tears which is great too.  Speaking
of videos, I sincerely apologize for this but it's Sunday and I can
not help myself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cqOEr_yfak

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday 10 July 2011 22:15:31 Grant wrote:

> Speaking of videos, I sincerely apologize for this but it's Sunday and I
> can not help myself:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cqOEr_yfak

I don't know what that's about - I couldn't watch more than 10s of it.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Bill Longman]

On 07/04/2011 09:39 PM, pk wrote:
> On 2011-07-04 22:32, Grant wrote:
> 
>> That's the FM1 socket, right?  I only see two FM1 CPUs on newegg.com
> 
> Yep.
> 
>> right now.  They're quad-core and 100W.  I guess the advantage there
>> is they have graphics on the CPU.  A 65W CPU would be better but when
>> it comes out I suppose.
> 
> Yes, since a htpc doesn't need a powerful cpu (or a powerful gpu) I
> would wait for the low power version. Acc. to Wikipedia the A6-3600/3800
> should be released (30th of June) so it shouldn't take long for Newegg
> to get them? I guess you could always ask them...
> 
> My thinking is this: A htpc doesn't need a powerful cpu/gpu combo but if
> you're running Gentoo on it, and planning to do the compiling on the
> machine itself, it's still nice to have a few cores available. If you
> are patient or can do cross-compiling (I haven't actually tried these
> myself) on another machine there are even lower power alternatives
> (Intel Atom, AMD Fusion):

I've run two different Atom boxes as desktops - a 300 and now a D525.
With an SSD my total power usage, with 4GB of DDR3-800 RAM, is typically
less than 30W. And it's quite responsive. The 300 was a dog but the 525
is great.

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Peter Humphrey]

On Monday 04 July 2011 17:30:27 Grant wrote:

> I'm reading that ASUS and Gigabyte are the way to go for reliability.

I'm suspicious of my Asus P7P55D motherboard. It seems just fine with Gentoo, 
and it has lots of tuning methods built in (over-clocking etc.). I've never 
used those facilities because the box is already quite fast enough for me 
and I value stability.

But, as I've mentioned here recently, every other distro I've tried hangs 
randomly - even the live CDs. Someone on an Asus forum suggested I change 
from PS/2 to USB keyboard and mouse, but meanwhile I've tried switching 
various things off in the BIOS, and this may be working: I now get at least a 
few hours with "Asus Express Gate" switched off (whatever that is).

I'm just one among many, of course.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Joost Roeleveld]

On Monday 04 July 2011 09:30:27 Grant wrote:
> I'm reading that ASUS and Gigabyte are the way to go for reliability.

Don't forget Tyan. The workstation board I have here has been rock-solid even 
in really bad "atmospheric" conditions (large temperature and humidity 
differences) and a dodgy power supply from the utility company.

They're just a bit more expensive then ASUS.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Bill Longman]

On 07/20/2011 11:49 AM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
> On Monday 04 July 2011 09:30:27 Grant wrote:
>> I'm reading that ASUS and Gigabyte are the way to go for reliability.
> 
> Don't forget Tyan. The workstation board I have here has been rock-solid even 
> in really bad "atmospheric" conditions (large temperature and humidity 
> differences) and a dodgy power supply from the utility company.
> 
> They're just a bit more expensive then ASUS.

+1

I had a DP Xeon mobo from them (S2665UANF) when the Xeon first got HT.
Great machine.

[gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[masterprometheus]

Grant wrote:

> My motherboard is getting flaky and it's time for a new one.  I have
> an AMD 6000+ CPU, 4GB DDR2/800 RAM, 2TB SATA2 HD, Blu-Ray burner, PCI
> wireless card, 400W power supply, and ATX case.  I could replace any
> of these components if it's worthwhile for some new feature, but I may
> as well keep them if it's not.

You'll probably keep the HDD, Blu-Ray drive and the wireless card for the 
new system. It's better to replace your PSU. For example :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371046
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182202
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207012

They'll all do the job, different brands, models and prices. 

If you're not going to sell the old CPU and memory modules you can buy a 
mobo and keep it as a backup PC :
http://cgi.ebay.com/Asus-M2N68-AM-PLUS-Socket-AM2-GeForce7025-DDR2-A-V-
Lan-/310329745884?pt=Motherboards&hash=item48411821dc

You'll need a new chassis if you decide to keep these old parts.

> The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I
> also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea.  The system is for
> playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever.  If you're familiar
> with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far
> as a motherboard and other components?  Any features a Gentoo'er
> should look for?

Plenty to choose. HDMI is nearly in every motherboard with onboard video. 
There are many ways to go, I picked the AM3+ way and with some excessive 
spending for the motherboard :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514

Not economical but I like the look and the quality of this one. For the 
CPU :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103903

A cheap option, but should be enough and instead of paying big bucks for 
6-cores etc, wait for the bulldozer. For memory : 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231308

8 GB should be good for a long time. With this board you'll need a 
discrete video card. This one should do the job :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161374

Fanless, so some ventilation is needed. I went full AMD. Good luck.

RE: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)

[Pandu Poluan]

-original message-
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)
From: Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com>
Date: 2011-07-04 23:30

>> How do you know it's the motherboard and not the PSU for instance?
>
>You're right, but I want HDMI and USB 3.0 so I figure I may as well
>switch the motherboard and then the PSU if the problem doesn't
>disappear.
>
>>> The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I
>>> also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea.  The system is for
>>
>> HDMI is available on most (all?) modern graphics cards, not sure if
>> built-ins have them though... USB 3 cards are also available.
>
>Yeah, a video card and USB card would cost roughly the same as a new
>motherboard and the video card would be a new source of heat and/or
>noise.
>
>>> playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever.  If you're familiar
>>
>> Sounds like you want a "htpc" setup.
>
>I guess.  Gentoo has been playing my music, movies, and TV for many
>years now.  I use a wireless keyboard from the couch.  Just a normal
>xfce4 desktop.  It's great.
>
>>> with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far
>>> as a motherboard and other components?  Any features a Gentoo'er
>>> should look for?
>>
>> Decide roughly (Intel/AMD chipsets, features, expansion capabilities
>> etc.) on what motherboard you want and compare reviews of it...
>
>I'm reading that ASUS and Gigabyte are the way to go for reliability.

Not in my country; I've seen waaay too many Asus mobo's died mysteriously, with or without fanfare.

Then again, Asus might've specifically targeted lower-quality mobo's for my country *sigh*

But I have heard nothing but praise re: Gigabyte mobo's.

>> I know others swear by Nvidia graphics but personally I will not touch
>> them (not for chipsets either due to lackluster/no open driver linux
>> support)... it's AMD (formerly ATI) for me (just don't buy the latest,
>> greatest unless you want to wait for open driver support, even though
>
>Yeah I'm a little worried about that with the motherboard.  If
>necessary I can keep limping along with my current motherboard while I
>wait for drivers for the new one.

Or, don't aim for the moon, and just buy last quarter's best (or 2nd best) graphics card :)

Unless you want to play a 60fps 3D-enabled game on a 1080p display, I think yesteryear's best cards are already A-OK.

Rgds,
--
FdS Pandu E Poluan
~ IT Optimizer ~

Sent from Nokia E72-1