[gentoo-user] re-installed KDE doesn't start : solved

[gentoo-user] re-installed KDE doesn't start : solved

[Philip Webb]

250726 Michael wrote:
> Hi Philip, Did you get to the bottom of this problem ?

Yes, but only after your kind concern galvanised me to tackle it (smile).
I realised what the basic problem was, but have been distracted otherwise.

> It seems to me some dependencies got muddled up and you've ended up with Qt5 
> as a dependency of Plasma-KDE plus Qt6, stepping over each other's toes.
> I'm guessing something in either /var/lib/portage/world
> or /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords/ kept Qt5 behind.

Checking back thro' my notes, I saw that I lost both KDE + sound
after a power outage 250617 Tu, which forced a reboot.
Checking 'syslog', I found the previous 'restart' 250525.
Next, I looked at 'emerge.log' & listed all pkgs updated during the interval :
these included 'xorg-server' + 'clementine' (sound),
so something else was needed to make the new versions work properly.
Then, I looked at my own 'pkg.ref' file (see below),
which lists all my installed pkgs with notes re the pkgs which require them ;
that told me which other pkgs probably needed to be updated too
to restore KDE + sound.  I duly remerged them & it's all back where it sb !

I've run into this before, eg re sound, but not so severely.
It's a defect in Portage, which no-one seems to want to acknowledge :
it will happily update a pkg without including its vital requirements.

I was able to solve the problem with the help of 'pkg.ref',
my own invention long ago (I've been using Gentoo since 2003).
Here is an extract, listing all 'media-libs' pkgs which are installed :

    230717 media-libs/a52dec-0.7.4-r8 [for vlc]
    250427 media-libs/alsa-lib-1.2.13-r3 [for FF]
    230717 media-libs/alsa-topology-conf-1.2.5.1 [for alsa-lib]
    230717 media-libs/alsa-ucm-conf-1.2.8 [for alsa-lib]
    250727 media-libs/chromaprint-1.5.1-r4 [for clementine]
    250427 media-libs/dav1d-1.5.0 [for FF]
    250727 media-libs/faad2-2.11.1 [for clementine]
    250713 media-libs/fontconfig-2.16.2-r1 [for libXft]
    240714 media-libs/freeglut-3.6.0 [for mupdf]
    250514 media-libs/freetype-2.13.3 [for libXft]
    230718 media-libs/giflib-5.2.1-r1 [for imlib2 mplayer qt]
    240316 media-libs/glm-1.0.1 [for LO]
    230625 media-libs/glu-9.0.2 [for virtual]
    250713 media-libs/harfbuzz-11.2.1 [for pango : USE ]
    240921 media-libs/imlib2-1.12.3 [for feh]
    241005 media-libs/jbig2dec-0.20 [for ghostscript-gpl]
    250427 media-libs/lcms-2.17-r2 [for ghostscript-gpl]
    230304 media-libs/lensfun-0.3.2-r1 [for ufraw]
    250308 media-libs/libaom-3.10.0 [for FF]
    250427 media-libs/libass-0.17.1-r2 [for ffmpeg]
    230726 media-libs/libcanberra-0.30-r7 [for FF]
    241006 media-libs/libcdr-0.1.7 [for LO]
    241006 media-libs/libepoxy-1.5.10-r3 [for poppler]
    230625 media-libs/libexif-0.6.24 [for fbida]
    230727 media-libs/libfreehand-0.1.2-r1 [for LO]
    250727 media-libs/libglvnd-1.7.0 [for mesa xorg-server]
    230719 media-libs/libid3tag-0.16.2 [for imlib2]
    250308 media-libs/libjpeg-turbo-3.1.0 [for v/jpeg]
    230727 media-libs/libpagemaker-0.0.4-r1 [for LO]
    250727 media-libs/libpng-1.6.47 [for xorg]
    240902 media-libs/libva-2.22.0 [for mesa]
    241006 media-libs/libvisio-0.1.7 [for LO]
    241013 media-libs/libvpx-1.14.1 [for FF]
    241006 media-libs/libzmf-0.0.2-r1 [for LO]
    250727 media-libs/mesa-25.0.7 [for xorg-server : USE]
    250224 media-libs/openh264-2.6.0 [for FF]
    230713 media-libs/openjpeg-2.5.0-r5 [for ghostscript-gpl mupdf]
    240917 media-libs/pcaudiolib-1.2-r2
    241006 media-libs/raptor-2.0.16 [for redland]
    250727 media-libs/taglib-2.1.1 [for clementine]
    250301 media-libs/tiff-4.7.0-r1 [for okular cups ghostscript]
    230717 media-libs/xvid-1.3.7-r1 [for ffmpeg vlc]

KDE + Xfce has separate lists (pkg-kde.ref pkg-xfce.ref).

You will see that some have today's date 250727, eg Chromaprint,
one or more of which proved to be essential for restoring sound.

No, Portage doesn't do it all for you ! -- it presents long lists of blocks.
Currently, it's doing this with 'curl' + 'shadow'.
Today, I encountered a demand for a USE flag '!gnutls' -- NB the '!' :
what does that mean ?  'USE="gnutls"' makes no difference
& there's no explanation of '!' via 'man emerge'.

So thanks again to those few who tried to help,
but as usual with Gentoo, the solution is simple,
once your identify where exactly the problem is.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatcadotinterdotnet

[gentoo-user] Re: re-installed KDE doesn't start : solved

[Michael]

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On Sunday, 27 July 2025 11:46:44 British Summer Time Philip Webb wrote:
> 250726 Michael wrote:
> > Hi Philip, Did you get to the bottom of this problem ?
> 
> Yes, but only after your kind concern galvanised me to tackle it (smile).
> I realised what the basic problem was, but have been distracted otherwise.
> 
> > It seems to me some dependencies got muddled up and you've ended up with
> > Qt5 as a dependency of Plasma-KDE plus Qt6, stepping over each other's
> > toes. I'm guessing something in either /var/lib/portage/world
> > or /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords/ kept Qt5 behind.
> 
> Checking back thro' my notes, I saw that I lost both KDE + sound
> after a power outage 250617 Tu, which forced a reboot.
> Checking 'syslog', I found the previous 'restart' 250525.
> Next, I looked at 'emerge.log' & listed all pkgs updated during the interval
> : these included 'xorg-server' + 'clementine' (sound),
> so something else was needed to make the new versions work properly.
> Then, I looked at my own 'pkg.ref' file (see below),
> which lists all my installed pkgs with notes re the pkgs which require them
> ; that told me which other pkgs probably needed to be updated too
> to restore KDE + sound.  I duly remerged them & it's all back where it sb !
> 
> I've run into this before, eg re sound, but not so severely.
> It's a defect in Portage, which no-one seems to want to acknowledge :
> it will happily update a pkg without including its vital requirements.

This is not a problem I've come across.  Portage processes the tree of 
dependencies and emerges/updates what it needs in an agreeable order.  If some 
dependency of any package to a newly updated library is broken, then you get a 
warning printed at the end of the emerge to run @preserved-rebuild.  The 
affected package which might have been temporarily affected will be rebuilt 
and normal operations will be restored.

If the user has specified some particular package version or library version, 
then portage will try to work around it, if it is possible, but can't override 
user instructions to make it happen.


> I was able to solve the problem with the help of 'pkg.ref',
> my own invention long ago (I've been using Gentoo since 2003).
> Here is an extract, listing all 'media-libs' pkgs which are installed :
> 
>     230717 media-libs/a52dec-0.7.4-r8 [for vlc]
>     250427 media-libs/alsa-lib-1.2.13-r3 [for FF]
>     230717 media-libs/alsa-topology-conf-1.2.5.1 [for alsa-lib]
>     230717 media-libs/alsa-ucm-conf-1.2.8 [for alsa-lib]
>     250727 media-libs/chromaprint-1.5.1-r4 [for clementine]
>     250427 media-libs/dav1d-1.5.0 [for FF]
>     250727 media-libs/faad2-2.11.1 [for clementine]
>     250713 media-libs/fontconfig-2.16.2-r1 [for libXft]
>     240714 media-libs/freeglut-3.6.0 [for mupdf]
>     250514 media-libs/freetype-2.13.3 [for libXft]
>     230718 media-libs/giflib-5.2.1-r1 [for imlib2 mplayer qt]
>     240316 media-libs/glm-1.0.1 [for LO]
>     230625 media-libs/glu-9.0.2 [for virtual]
>     250713 media-libs/harfbuzz-11.2.1 [for pango : USE ]
>     240921 media-libs/imlib2-1.12.3 [for feh]
>     241005 media-libs/jbig2dec-0.20 [for ghostscript-gpl]
>     250427 media-libs/lcms-2.17-r2 [for ghostscript-gpl]
>     230304 media-libs/lensfun-0.3.2-r1 [for ufraw]
>     250308 media-libs/libaom-3.10.0 [for FF]
>     250427 media-libs/libass-0.17.1-r2 [for ffmpeg]
>     230726 media-libs/libcanberra-0.30-r7 [for FF]
>     241006 media-libs/libcdr-0.1.7 [for LO]
>     241006 media-libs/libepoxy-1.5.10-r3 [for poppler]
>     230625 media-libs/libexif-0.6.24 [for fbida]
>     230727 media-libs/libfreehand-0.1.2-r1 [for LO]
>     250727 media-libs/libglvnd-1.7.0 [for mesa xorg-server]
>     230719 media-libs/libid3tag-0.16.2 [for imlib2]
>     250308 media-libs/libjpeg-turbo-3.1.0 [for v/jpeg]
>     230727 media-libs/libpagemaker-0.0.4-r1 [for LO]
>     250727 media-libs/libpng-1.6.47 [for xorg]
>     240902 media-libs/libva-2.22.0 [for mesa]
>     241006 media-libs/libvisio-0.1.7 [for LO]
>     241013 media-libs/libvpx-1.14.1 [for FF]
>     241006 media-libs/libzmf-0.0.2-r1 [for LO]
>     250727 media-libs/mesa-25.0.7 [for xorg-server : USE]
>     250224 media-libs/openh264-2.6.0 [for FF]
>     230713 media-libs/openjpeg-2.5.0-r5 [for ghostscript-gpl mupdf]
>     240917 media-libs/pcaudiolib-1.2-r2
>     241006 media-libs/raptor-2.0.16 [for redland]
>     250727 media-libs/taglib-2.1.1 [for clementine]
>     250301 media-libs/tiff-4.7.0-r1 [for okular cups ghostscript]
>     230717 media-libs/xvid-1.3.7-r1 [for ffmpeg vlc]
> 
> KDE + Xfce has separate lists (pkg-kde.ref pkg-xfce.ref).
> 
> You will see that some have today's date 250727, eg Chromaprint,
> one or more of which proved to be essential for restoring sound.
> 
> No, Portage doesn't do it all for you ! -- it presents long lists of blocks.
> Currently, it's doing this with 'curl' + 'shadow'.

A hard Block "B" indicates a conflict between what packages/versions you have 
installed or specified and what portage seeks to install/update.  This 
requires manual intervention by the user to be resolved, typically be editing 
any user additions in /etc/portage/.  A soft block "b" is resolvable by 
portage alone.

Either way, portage will install what you've told it you want on your system 
and generally will do so quite reliably.  Normally, there is no good reason at 
all to be installing libraries manually, or sticking them in your /var/lib/
portage/world, unless you are trying some temporary workaround.

Some packages may require a reboot, or restart, for a recently emerged version 
to be loaded and used.  Kernel, graphics, audio, pam, etc., would be such a 
case.  If you do not reboot often, or manually restart affected packages, 
you'll come up against some components of a desktop failing to work as 
expected.


> Today, I encountered a demand for a USE flag '!gnutls' -- NB the '!' :
> what does that mean ?  'USE="gnutls"' makes no difference
> & there's no explanation of '!' via 'man emerge'.

An exclamation mark "!" before an item denotes a negation.  You'd normally see 
this when emerge informs you it cannot emerge a package with the USE flags you 
have currently specified for some package in /etc/portage/package.use/*, or 
your default USE flags in /etc/portage/make.conf.  I think a couple of 
packages have a hard dependency on USE="gnutls", so if you have disabled 
gnutls globally for the more widely adopted USE="openssl", you'd receive a 
warning by emerge about this.

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Re: [gentoo-user] blocks, Blocks, shrieks

[Philip Webb]

250727 Michael wrote:
> A hard Block "B" indicates a conflict
> between what packages/versions you have installed or specified
> and what portage seeks to install/update.
> This requires manual intervention by the user to be resolved,
> typically be editing any user additions in /etc/portage/.
> A soft block "b" is resolvable by portage alone.
> Either way, portage will install what you've told it you want on your system 
> and generally will do so quite reliably.

Currently, 'shadow' has an 'U'pdate.  Here's what I get when I try :

  root:516 ~> emerge -pv shadow
  These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
  Calculating dependencies... done!
  Dependency resolution took 3.78 s (backtrack: 0/20).

  [ebuild     U  ] sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8:0/4::gentoo [4.13-r4:0/4::gentoo] USE="acl -audit (-bcrypt%) -cracklib nls pam (-selinux) -skey (split-usr) su* (-systemd) -verify-sig xattr" 1765 KiB
  [blocks B      ] sys-apps/util-linux[su(-)] ("sys-apps/util-linux[su(-)]" is soft blocking sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8)
  [blocks B      ] >=sys-apps/shadow-4.7-r2[su] (">=sys-apps/shadow-4.7-r2[su]" is soft blocking sys-apps/util-linux-2.41.1)

Total: 1 package (1 upgrade), Size of downloads: 1765 KiB
Conflict: 2 blocks (2 unsatisfied)

 * Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
 * installed at the same time on the same system.

  (sys-apps/util-linux-2.41.1-2:0/0::gentoo, installed) pulled in by
    sys-apps/util-linux:= required by (dev-lang/python-3.13.5:3.13/3.13::gentoo, installed) USE="-bluetooth -build -debug ensurepip -examples gdbm (-jit) -libedit ncurses -pgo readline sqlite ssl -test tk -valgrind -verify-sig" ABI_X86="(64)" LLVM_SLOT="18"
    >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.30 required by (sys-libs/libblockdev-3.3.1:0/3::gentoo, installed) USE="cryptsetup -device-mapper -escrow -gtk-doc -introspection -lvm nvme -python -smart -test tools" ABI_X86="(64)" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="-python3_11 -python3_12 python3_13"
    sys-apps/util-linux required by (sys-block/parted-3.6:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="debug -device-mapper nls readline -verify-sig" ABI_X86="(64)"
    sys-apps/util-linux required by (sys-boot/syslinux-6.04_pre1-r5:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="bios -secureboot uefi" ABI_X86="-32 (64)"
    >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.30 required by (sys-fs/udisks-2.10.1-r3:2/2::gentoo, installed) USE="acl daemon -debug elogind introspection -lvm nls (-selinux) (-systemd)" ABI_X86="(64)"
    >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.31-r1 required by (sys-fs/cryptsetup-2.7.5:0/12::gentoo, installed) USE="argon2 -fips -gcrypt -kernel -nettle nls openssl -pwquality -ssh -static -static-libs -test udev -urandom" ABI_X86="(64)"
    >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.24.1-r3[abi_x86_64(-)] required by (x11-libs/libSM-1.2.4-1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="-doc userland_GNU uuid" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)"
    sys-apps/util-linux:0/0= required by (dev-lang/python-3.12.11:3.12/3.12::gentoo, installed) USE="-bluetooth -build -debug ensurepip -examples gdbm -libedit ncurses -pgo readline sqlite ssl -test tk -valgrind -verify-sig" ABI_X86="(64)"
    sys-apps/util-linux[caps] required by (app-portage/pfl-3.5.3:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="network-cron" ABI_X86="(64)" PYTHON_TARGETS="-python3_11 -python3_12 python3_13"
    sys-apps/util-linux required by (app-text/build-docbook-catalog-2.4-1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="" ABI_X86="(64)"
    sys-apps/util-linux required by (kde-frameworks/solid-6.13.0:6/6.13::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -doc -ios -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
    sys-apps/util-linux required by (app-text/xmlto-0.0.28-r10-2:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="-latex text userland_GNU" ABI_X86="(64)"
    sys-apps/util-linux:0/0= required by (dev-lang/python-3.13.5:3.13/3.13::gentoo, installed) USE="-bluetooth -build -debug ensurepip -examples gdbm (-jit) -libedit ncurses -pgo readline sqlite ssl -test tk -valgrind -verify-sig" ABI_X86="(64)" LLVM_SLOT="18"
    sys-apps/util-linux required by (sys-auth/elogind-255.17:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="acl -audit -cgroup-hybrid -debug -doc pam (policykit) (-selinux) -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
    sys-apps/util-linux required by (sys-apps/gptfdisk-1.0.9-r3:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="ncurses -static" ABI_X86="(64)"
    sys-apps/util-linux required by (sys-apps/portage-3.0.68:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="-apidoc -build -doc -gentoo-dev (ipc) native-extensions rsync-verify (-selinux) -test xattr" ABI_X86="(64)" PYTHON_TARGETS="(-pypy3_11) -python3_11 -python3_12 python3_13"
    >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.23[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,abi_s390_32(-)?,abi_s390_64(-)?] (>=sys-apps/util-linux-2.23[abi_x86_64(-)]) required by (dev-libs/glib-2.82.5:2/2::gentoo, installed) USE="dbus -debug -doc elf introspection (mime) (-selinux) -static-libs -sysprof -systemtap -test -utils xattr" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)"
    >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.30:0=[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,abi_s390_32(-)?,abi_s390_64(-)?] (>=sys-apps/util-linux-2.30:0=[abi_x86_64(-)]) required by (sys-apps/systemd-utils-255.18:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="acl -boot -kernel-install kmod -secureboot (-selinux) (split-usr) -sysusers -test tmpfiles udev -ukify" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="-python3_11 python3_12 -python3_13"
    sys-apps/util-linux required by @system 
    sys-apps/util-linux:= required by (dev-lang/python-3.12.11:3.12/3.12::gentoo, installed) USE="-bluetooth -build -debug ensurepip -examples gdbm -libedit ncurses -pgo readline sqlite ssl -test tk -valgrind -verify-sig" ABI_X86="(64)"
    sys-apps/util-linux[abi_x86_64(-)] required by (net-misc/networkmanager-1.48.10-r1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="-audit -bluetooth concheck -connection-sharing -debug -dhclient dhcpcd elogind gnutls gtk-doc introspection -iptables -iwd -libedit modemmanager -nftables -nss -ofono -ovs (policykit) ppp -psl -resolvconf (-selinux) -syslog (-systemd) -teamd -test tools -vala wext wifi" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)"
    >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.33.2 required by (sys-block/gparted-1.6.0-r2:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="kde (policykit) -test wayland" ABI_X86="(64)"
    sys-apps/util-linux[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,abi_s390_32(-)?,abi_s390_64(-)?] (sys-apps/util-linux[abi_x86_64(-)]) required by (media-libs/fontconfig-2.16.2-r1:1.0/1.0::gentoo, installed) USE="-doc nls -test" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)"
    sys-apps/util-linux required by (sys-fs/e2fsprogs-1.47.2-r10-1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="-archive -cron -fuse nls -static-libs -test tools" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)"
    >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.30:0/0=[abi_x86_64(-)] required by (sys-apps/systemd-utils-255.18:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="acl -boot -kernel-install kmod -secureboot (-selinux) (split-usr) -sysusers -test tmpfiles udev -ukify" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="-python3_11 python3_12 -python3_13"
    >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.19 required by (dev-libs/rasqal-0.9.33-r1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="crypt -gmp mhash pcre -static-libs -test xml" ABI_X86="(64)"

  (sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8:0/4::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by
    sys-apps/shadow required by (net-misc/openssh-10.0_p1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="-audit (-debug) -kerberos -ldns -libedit -livecd pam pie -security-key (-selinux) ssl -static -test -verify-sig (-xmss)" ABI_X86="(64)"
    shadow
    sys-apps/shadow required by @system 

For more information about Blocked Packages, please refer to the following
section of the Gentoo Linux x86 Handbook (architecture is irrelevant):
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Working/Portage#Blocked_packages

-- end of Emerge output -- 

I looked at the Handbook entry cited, but it doesn't help.
No wonder, when you check the end :
"This page was last edited on 13 December 2014, at 19:42" !!

Can anyone explain what I'm supposed to make of the output above ?
How can I successfully update 'shadow', a vital system pkg ?

In case anyone doesn't know, I've been relying on Gentoo since 2003.
Most of the time, it does a very good job, but it needs some improvements.

>> Today, I encountered a demand for a USE flag '!gnutls' -- NB the '!' :
>> what does that mean ?  'USE="gnutls"' makes no difference
>> & there's no explanation of '!' via 'man emerge'.
> An exclamation mark "!" before an item denotes a negation.
> You'd normally see this when emerge informs you
> it cannot emerge a package with the USE flags you have currently specified.

Thanks, 'USE="-gnutls" emerge curl' appears to work.

However, where in Gentoo docs are we told that '!' = '-' ?

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatcadotinterdotnet

Re: [gentoo-user] blocks, Blocks, shrieks

[Stefano Crocco]

On martedì 29 luglio 2025 12:18:06 Ora legale dell’Europa centrale Philip Webb 
wrote:
> 250727 Michael wrote:
> > A hard Block "B" indicates a conflict
> > between what packages/versions you have installed or specified
> > and what portage seeks to install/update.
> > This requires manual intervention by the user to be resolved,
> > typically be editing any user additions in /etc/portage/.
> > A soft block "b" is resolvable by portage alone.
> > Either way, portage will install what you've told it you want on your
> > system and generally will do so quite reliably.
> 
> Currently, 'shadow' has an 'U'pdate.  Here's what I get when I try :
> 
>   root:516 ~> emerge -pv shadow
>   These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
>   Calculating dependencies... done!
>   Dependency resolution took 3.78 s (backtrack: 0/20).
> 
>   [ebuild     U  ] sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8:0/4::gentoo [4.13-r4:0/4::gentoo]
> USE="acl -audit (-bcrypt%) -cracklib nls pam (-selinux) -skey (split-usr)
> su* (-systemd) -verify-sig xattr" 1765 KiB [blocks B      ]
> sys-apps/util-linux[su(-)] ("sys-apps/util-linux[su(-)]" is soft blocking
> sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8) [blocks B      ] >=sys-apps/shadow-4.7-r2[su]
> (">=sys-apps/shadow-4.7-r2[su]" is soft blocking
> sys-apps/util-linux-2.41.1)
> 
> Total: 1 package (1 upgrade), Size of downloads: 1765 KiB
> Conflict: 2 blocks (2 unsatisfied)
> 
>  * Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
>  * installed at the same time on the same system.
> 
>   (sys-apps/util-linux-2.41.1-2:0/0::gentoo, installed) pulled in by
>     sys-apps/util-linux:= required by
> (dev-lang/python-3.13.5:3.13/3.13::gentoo, installed) USE="-bluetooth
> -build -debug ensurepip -examples gdbm (-jit) -libedit ncurses -pgo
> readline sqlite ssl -test tk -valgrind -verify-sig" ABI_X86="(64)"
> LLVM_SLOT="18"
>     >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.30 required by
>     >(sys-libs/libblockdev-3.3.1:0/3::gentoo, installed) USE="cryptsetup
>     >-device-mapper -escrow -gtk-doc -introspection -lvm nvme -python
>     >-smart -test tools" ABI_X86="(64)" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="-python3_11
>     >-python3_12 python3_13"
>     sys-apps/util-linux required by (sys-block/parted-3.6:0/0::gentoo,
> installed) USE="debug -device-mapper nls readline -verify-sig"
> ABI_X86="(64)" sys-apps/util-linux required by
> (sys-boot/syslinux-6.04_pre1-r5:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="bios
> -secureboot uefi" ABI_X86="-32 (64)"
>     >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.30 required by
>     >(sys-fs/udisks-2.10.1-r3:2/2::gentoo, installed) USE="acl daemon
>     >-debug elogind introspection -lvm nls (-selinux) (-systemd)"
>     >ABI_X86="(64)" =sys-apps/util-linux-2.31-r1 required by
>     >(sys-fs/cryptsetup-2.7.5:0/12::gentoo, installed) USE="argon2 -fips
>     >-gcrypt -kernel -nettle nls openssl -pwquality -ssh -static
>     >-static-libs -test udev -urandom" ABI_X86="(64)"
>     >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.24.1-r3[abi_x86_64(-)] required by
>     >(x11-libs/libSM-1.2.4-1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="-doc userland_GNU
>     >uuid" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)"
>     sys-apps/util-linux:0/0= required by
> (dev-lang/python-3.12.11:3.12/3.12::gentoo, installed) USE="-bluetooth
> -build -debug ensurepip -examples gdbm -libedit ncurses -pgo readline
> sqlite ssl -test tk -valgrind -verify-sig" ABI_X86="(64)"
> sys-apps/util-linux[caps] required by (app-portage/pfl-3.5.3:0/0::gentoo,
> installed) USE="network-cron" ABI_X86="(64)" PYTHON_TARGETS="-python3_11
> -python3_12 python3_13" sys-apps/util-linux required by
> (app-text/build-docbook-catalog-2.4-1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE=""
> ABI_X86="(64)" sys-apps/util-linux required by
> (kde-frameworks/solid-6.13.0:6/6.13::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -doc
> -ios -test" ABI_X86="(64)" sys-apps/util-linux required by
> (app-text/xmlto-0.0.28-r10-2:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="-latex text
> userland_GNU" ABI_X86="(64)" sys-apps/util-linux:0/0= required by
> (dev-lang/python-3.13.5:3.13/3.13::gentoo, installed) USE="-bluetooth
> -build -debug ensurepip -examples gdbm (-jit) -libedit ncurses -pgo
> readline sqlite ssl -test tk -valgrind -verify-sig" ABI_X86="(64)"
> LLVM_SLOT="18" sys-apps/util-linux required by
> (sys-auth/elogind-255.17:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="acl -audit
> -cgroup-hybrid -debug -doc pam (policykit) (-selinux) -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
> sys-apps/util-linux required by (sys-apps/gptfdisk-1.0.9-r3:0/0::gentoo,
> installed) USE="ncurses -static" ABI_X86="(64)" sys-apps/util-linux
> required by (sys-apps/portage-3.0.68:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="-apidoc
> -build -doc -gentoo-dev (ipc) native-extensions rsync-verify (-selinux)
> -test xattr" ABI_X86="(64)" PYTHON_TARGETS="(-pypy3_11) -python3_11
> -python3_12 python3_13"
>     >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.23[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?
>     >,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,abi_s390_32(-)?,abi
>     >_s390_64(-)?] (>=sys-apps/util-linux-2.23[abi_x86_64(-)]) required by
>     >(dev-libs/glib-2.82.5:2/2::gentoo, installed) USE="dbus -debug -doc
>     >elf introspection (mime) (-selinux) -static-libs -sysprof -systemtap
>     >-test -utils xattr" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)"
>     >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.30:0=[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32
>     >(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,abi_s390_32(-)?
>     >,abi_s390_64(-)?] (>=sys-apps/util-linux-2.30:0=[abi_x86_64(-)])
>     >required by (sys-apps/systemd-utils-255.18:0/0::gentoo, installed)
>     >USE="acl -boot -kernel-install kmod -secureboot (-selinux) (split-usr)
>     >-sysusers -test tmpfiles udev -ukify" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)"
>     >PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="-python3_11 python3_12 -python3_13"
>     sys-apps/util-linux required by @system
>     sys-apps/util-linux:= required by
> (dev-lang/python-3.12.11:3.12/3.12::gentoo, installed) USE="-bluetooth
> -build -debug ensurepip -examples gdbm -libedit ncurses -pgo readline
> sqlite ssl -test tk -valgrind -verify-sig" ABI_X86="(64)"
> sys-apps/util-linux[abi_x86_64(-)] required by
> (net-misc/networkmanager-1.48.10-r1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="-audit
> -bluetooth concheck -connection-sharing -debug -dhclient dhcpcd elogind
> gnutls gtk-doc introspection -iptables -iwd -libedit modemmanager -nftables
> -nss -ofono -ovs (policykit) ppp -psl -resolvconf (-selinux) -syslog
> (-systemd) -teamd -test tools -vala wext wifi" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)"
>     >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.33.2 required by
>     >(sys-block/gparted-1.6.0-r2:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="kde
>     >(policykit) -test wayland" ABI_X86="(64)"
>    
> sys-apps/util-linux[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_
> n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,abi_s390_32(-)?,abi_s390_64(-)?]
> (sys-apps/util-linux[abi_x86_64(-)]) required by
> (media-libs/fontconfig-2.16.2-r1:1.0/1.0::gentoo, installed) USE="-doc nls
> -test" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)" sys-apps/util-linux required by
> (sys-fs/e2fsprogs-1.47.2-r10-1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="-archive -cron
> -fuse nls -static-libs -test tools" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)"
>     >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.30:0/0=[abi_x86_64(-)] required by
>     >(sys-apps/systemd-utils-255.18:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="acl -boot
>     >-kernel-install kmod -secureboot (-selinux) (split-usr) -sysusers
>     >-test tmpfiles udev -ukify" ABI_X86="-32 (64) (-x32)"
>     >PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="-python3_11 python3_12 -python3_13"
>     >=sys-apps/util-linux-2.19 required by
>     >(dev-libs/rasqal-0.9.33-r1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="crypt -gmp
>     >mhash pcre -static-libs -test xml" ABI_X86="(64)"
>   (sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8:0/4::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in
> by sys-apps/shadow required by (net-misc/openssh-10.0_p1:0/0::gentoo,
> installed) USE="-audit (-debug) -kerberos -ldns -libedit -livecd pam pie
> -security-key (-selinux) ssl -static -test -verify-sig (-xmss)"
> ABI_X86="(64)" shadow
>     sys-apps/shadow required by @system
> 
> For more information about Blocked Packages, please refer to the following
> section of the Gentoo Linux x86 Handbook (architecture is irrelevant):
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Working/Portage#Blocked_packages
> 
> -- end of Emerge output --
> 
> I looked at the Handbook entry cited, but it doesn't help.
> No wonder, when you check the end :
> "This page was last edited on 13 December 2014, at 19:42" !!
> 
> Can anyone explain what I'm supposed to make of the output above ?
> How can I successfully update 'shadow', a vital system pkg ?
> 
> In case anyone doesn't know, I've been relying on Gentoo since 2003.
> Most of the time, it does a very good job, but it needs some improvements.

If I'm not mistaken, your problem comes from the fact you're emerging shadow 
with the su USE flag while having util-linux installed with the same USE flag. 
Since that flag enables building the "su" program, it be set for both packages. 
I think what you should disable the "su" flag for either shadow or util-linux. 
On my system, I have it on for util-linux and not for shadow.

I hope this helps

Stefano

Re: [gentoo-user] blocks, Blocks, shrieks

[Michael]

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On Tuesday, 29 July 2025 11:18:06 British Summer Time Philip Webb wrote:
> 250727 Michael wrote:
> > A hard Block "B" indicates a conflict
> > between what packages/versions you have installed or specified
> > and what portage seeks to install/update.
> > This requires manual intervention by the user to be resolved,
> > typically be editing any user additions in /etc/portage/.
> > A soft block "b" is resolvable by portage alone.
> > Either way, portage will install what you've told it you want on your
> > system and generally will do so quite reliably.
> 
> Currently, 'shadow' has an 'U'pdate.  Here's what I get when I try :
> 
>   root:516 ~> emerge -pv shadow
>   These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
>   Calculating dependencies... done!
>   Dependency resolution took 3.78 s (backtrack: 0/20).
> 
>   [ebuild     U  ] sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8:0/4::gentoo [4.13-r4:0/4::gentoo]
> USE="acl -audit (-bcrypt%) -cracklib nls pam (-selinux) -skey (split-usr)
> su* (-systemd) -verify-sig xattr" 1765 KiB [blocks B      ]
> sys-apps/util-linux[su(-)] ("sys-apps/util-linux[su(-)]" is soft blocking
> sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8) [blocks B      ] >=sys-apps/shadow-4.7-r2[su]
> (">=sys-apps/shadow-4.7-r2[su]" is soft blocking
> sys-apps/util-linux-2.41.1)
> 
> Total: 1 package (1 upgrade), Size of downloads: 1765 KiB
> Conflict: 2 blocks (2 unsatisfied)
[snip ...]

It appears USE="su" for sys-apps/shadow is causing a clash.

~ $ grep su -r /etc/portage

should show where you have set it up to cause this problem.


> > An exclamation mark "!" before an item denotes a negation.
> > You'd normally see this when emerge informs you
> > it cannot emerge a package with the USE flags you have currently
> > specified.
> 
> Thanks, 'USE="-gnutls" emerge curl' appears to work.
> 
> However, where in Gentoo docs are we told that '!' = '-' ?

The "!" will appear in emerge output within some conditional logic statement, 
typically hinting at what may be causing a clash and requiring manual 
intervention.  A loose hypothetical example: if you have installed X but !Y, 
then you must select Z.

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[gentoo-user] Re: blocks, Blocks, shrieks

[Nuno Silva]

On 2025-07-29, Philip Webb wrote:

> 250727 Michael wrote:
>> A hard Block "B" indicates a conflict
>> between what packages/versions you have installed or specified
>> and what portage seeks to install/update.
>> This requires manual intervention by the user to be resolved,
>> typically be editing any user additions in /etc/portage/.
>> A soft block "b" is resolvable by portage alone.
>> Either way, portage will install what you've told it you want on your system 
>> and generally will do so quite reliably.
>
> Currently, 'shadow' has an 'U'pdate.  Here's what I get when I try :
>
>   root:516 ~> emerge -pv shadow
>   These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
>   Calculating dependencies... done!
>   Dependency resolution took 3.78 s (backtrack: 0/20).
>
>   [ebuild     U  ] sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8:0/4::gentoo [4.13-r4:0/4::gentoo] USE="acl -audit (-bcrypt%) -cracklib nls pam (-selinux) -skey (split-usr) su* (-systemd) -verify-sig xattr" 1765 KiB
>   [blocks B      ] sys-apps/util-linux[su(-)] ("sys-apps/util-linux[su(-)]" is soft blocking sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8)
>   [blocks B      ] >=sys-apps/shadow-4.7-r2[su] (">=sys-apps/shadow-4.7-r2[su]" is soft blocking sys-apps/util-linux-2.41.1)
>

From these lines, it's somewhat clear that the problem is that only one
of these two packages can have the "su" USE flag set.

This because IIRC both can provide the "su" utility.

If you did not change any USE flags, I guess a quick first step after
this would be to try to update util-linux as well, just in case that's
all it takes.

In case it was you who manually enabled the "su" flag for shadow, you
need to ensure that util-linux has it disabled. And then update both at
the same time (or is that not sufficient to handle this block?).

[...]

> Total: 1 package (1 upgrade), Size of downloads: 1765 KiB
> Conflict: 2 blocks (2 unsatisfied)
[...]
> -- end of Emerge output -- 
>
> I looked at the Handbook entry cited, but it doesn't help.
> No wonder, when you check the end :
> "This page was last edited on 13 December 2014, at 19:42" !!

That, by itself, is not an indication that it is not suitable.

> Can anyone explain what I'm supposed to make of the output above ?
> How can I successfully update 'shadow', a vital system pkg ?

Well, the -pv output by itself, the list of packages and the block, in
this case appears to be sufficient?

> In case anyone doesn't know, I've been relying on Gentoo since 2003.
> Most of the time, it does a very good job, but it needs some improvements.
>
>>> Today, I encountered a demand for a USE flag '!gnutls' -- NB the '!' :
>>> what does that mean ?  'USE="gnutls"' makes no difference
>>> & there's no explanation of '!' via 'man emerge'.
>> An exclamation mark "!" before an item denotes a negation.
>> You'd normally see this when emerge informs you
>> it cannot emerge a package with the USE flags you have currently specified.
>
> Thanks, 'USE="-gnutls" emerge curl' appears to work.
>
> However, where in Gentoo docs are we told that '!' = '-' ?

I'd guess in the online manual page for the ebuild syntax.

    man 5 ebuild

Or, on the Web, possibly in the devmanual or the Package Manager
Specification? (Which are also available for install.)

(Maybe there are better sources to use as a reference, which I've
forgotten about.)

-- 
Nuno Silva

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: blocks, Blocks, shrieks

[Philip Webb]

250729 Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2025-07-29, Philip Webb wrote:
>> Currently, 'shadow' has an 'U'pdate.  Here's what I get when I try :
>>
>>   root:516 ~> emerge -pv shadow
>>   These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
>>   Calculating dependencies... done!
>>   Dependency resolution took 3.78 s (backtrack: 0/20).
>>
>>   [ebuild     U  ] sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8:0/4::gentoo [4.13-r4:0/4::gentoo] USE="acl -audit (-bcrypt%) -cracklib nls pam (-selinux) -skey (split-usr) su* (-systemd) -verify-sig xattr" 1765 KiB
>>   [blocks B      ] sys-apps/util-linux[su(-)] ("sys-apps/util-linux[su(-)]" is soft blocking sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8)
>>   [blocks B      ] >=sys-apps/shadow-4.7-r2[su] (">=sys-apps/shadow-4.7-r2[su]" is soft blocking sys-apps/util-linux-2.41.1)
> From these lines, it's somewhat clear that the problem is
> that only one of these two packages can have the "su" USE flag set.
> This because both can provide the "su" utility.
> If you did not change any USE flags, I guess a quick first step after this
> would be to try to update util-linux as well,
> just in case that's all it takes.
> In case it was you who manually enabled the "su" flag for shadow,
> you need to ensure that util-linux has it disabled
> & then update both at the same time.

Yes, that's the explanation for the problem.
It comes back that I encountered it before some years ago
& chose to enable 'su' for 'util-linux'.
I've now added lines in 'package.use' to set the flag appropriately
& have successfully updated both pkgs.

However, I continue to believe that Portage could do a better job
in reporting the nature of the problem.

>> I looked at the Handbook entry cited, but it doesn't help.
>> No wonder, when you check the end :
>> "This page was last edited on 13 December 2014, at 19:42" !!
> That, by itself, is not an indication that it is not suitable.

No, but  11 yrs  is a very long time in the world of software
& one would expect some improvements in the interim.

>> However, where in Gentoo docs are we told that '!' = '-' ?
> I'd guess in the online manual page for the ebuild syntax : 'man 5 ebuild'.

Yes, it's there on the 1st page, but I wasn't aware of that man file.
When reporting a flag requirement, Portage should say '-x', not '!x'.

Thanks for your careful explanation & to the others who advised similarly.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatcadotinterdotnet

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: blocks, Blocks, shrieks

[Michael]

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On Wednesday, 30 July 2025 09:50:31 British Summer Time Philip Webb wrote:
> 250729 Nuno Silva wrote:
> > On 2025-07-29, Philip Webb wrote:
> >> Currently, 'shadow' has an 'U'pdate.  Here's what I get when I try :
> >>   root:516 ~> emerge -pv shadow
> >>   These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
> >>   Calculating dependencies... done!
> >>   Dependency resolution took 3.78 s (backtrack: 0/20).
> >>   
> >>   [ebuild     U  ] sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8:0/4::gentoo
> >>   [4.13-r4:0/4::gentoo] USE="acl -audit (-bcrypt%) -cracklib nls pam
> >>   (-selinux) -skey (split-usr) su* (-systemd) -verify-sig xattr" 1765

The suffix "*" to your USE flag "su" above indicates a change of this flag 
from a previous emerged state with it being disabled.  This is the default 
here:
============================
~ $ equery u sys-apps/shadow
[ Legend : U - final flag setting for installation]
[        : I - package is installed with flag     ]
[ Colors : set, unset                             ]
 * Found these USE flags for sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8:
 U I
 + + acl        : Add support for Access Control Lists
 - - audit      : Enable support for Linux audit subsystem using sys-process/
audit
 - - cracklib   : Support for cracklib strong password checking
 + + nls        : Add Native Language Support (using gettext - GNU locale 
utilities)
 + + pam        : Add support for PAM (Pluggable Authentication Modules) - 
DANGEROUS to arbitrarily flip
 - - skey       : Enable S/Key (Single use password) authentication support
 - - su         : build the su program
 - - systemd    : Enable use of systemd-specific libraries and features like 
socket activation or session tracking
 - - verify-sig : Verify upstream signatures on distfiles
 + + xattr      : Add support for extended attributes (filesystem-stored 
metadata)
================


> >>   KiB [blocks B      ] sys-apps/util-linux[su(-)]
> >>   ("sys-apps/util-linux[su(-)]" is soft blocking sys-apps/shadow-4.14.8)
> >>   [blocks B      ] >=sys-apps/shadow-4.7-r2[su]
> >>   (">=sys-apps/shadow-4.7-r2[su]" is soft blocking
> >>   sys-apps/util-linux-2.41.1)> 

The above output explains the clash caused by the USE flag "su" being enabled 
on both packages.


> > From these lines, it's somewhat clear that the problem is
> > that only one of these two packages can have the "su" USE flag set.
> > This because both can provide the "su" utility.
> > If you did not change any USE flags, I guess a quick first step after this
> > would be to try to update util-linux as well,
> > just in case that's all it takes.
> > In case it was you who manually enabled the "su" flag for shadow,
> > you need to ensure that util-linux has it disabled
> > & then update both at the same time.
> 
> Yes, that's the explanation for the problem.
> It comes back that I encountered it before some years ago
> & chose to enable 'su' for 'util-linux'.
> I've now added lines in 'package.use' to set the flag appropriately
> & have successfully updated both pkgs.

You /should/ find the problem goes away if you let portage decide on this 
occasion, by removing manual edits about the "su" USE flag on both of these 
packages in /etc/portage/package.use/.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: blocks, Blocks, shrieks

[Eli Schwartz]

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On 7/30/25 4:50 AM, Philip Webb wrote:

> Yes, that's the explanation for the problem.
> It comes back that I encountered it before some years ago
> & chose to enable 'su' for 'util-linux'.
> I've now added lines in 'package.use' to set the flag appropriately
> & have successfully updated both pkgs.
> 
> However, I continue to believe that Portage could do a better job
> in reporting the nature of the problem.


I agree! :) I believe this is a known issue, which I reported at
https://bugs.gentoo.org/916462


Portage's error message wording isn't always the best, it would be very
nice if it could be improved.


-- 
Eli Schwartz

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Re: [gentoo-user] blocks, Blocks, shrieks

[Philip Webb]

250730 Eli Schwartz wrote:
> On 7/30/25 4:50 AM, Philip Webb wrote:
>> Yes, that's the explanation for the problem.
>> It comes back that I encountered it before some years ago
>> & chose to enable 'su' for 'util-linux'.
>> I've now added lines in 'package.use' to set the flag appropriately
>> & have successfully updated both pkgs.
>> However, I continue to believe that Portage could do a better job
>> in reporting the nature of the problem.
> I agree! :) I believe this is a known issue,
> which I reported at https://bugs.gentoo.org/916462
> Portage's error message wording isn't always the best,
> it would be very nice if it could be improved.

Finally, some support for common sense !

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatcadotinterdotnet

Re: [gentoo-user] blocks, Blocks, shrieks

[Michael]

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On Thursday, 31 July 2025 12:28:54 British Summer Time Philip Webb wrote:
> 250730 Eli Schwartz wrote:
> > On 7/30/25 4:50 AM, Philip Webb wrote:
> >> Yes, that's the explanation for the problem.
> >> It comes back that I encountered it before some years ago
> >> & chose to enable 'su' for 'util-linux'.
> >> I've now added lines in 'package.use' to set the flag appropriately
> >> & have successfully updated both pkgs.
> >> However, I continue to believe that Portage could do a better job
> >> in reporting the nature of the problem.
> > 
> > I agree! :) I believe this is a known issue,
> > which I reported at https://bugs.gentoo.org/916462
> > Portage's error message wording isn't always the best,
> > it would be very nice if it could be improved.
> 
> Finally, some support for common sense !

The difficulty with the output of emerge is it requires interpreting various 
symbols, which the user have to familiarise themselves with, but also provides 
little additional explanation as to the underlying causes.  Yes, it may be 
obvious there is clash caused by some USE flag, but why might that be?  An 
upstream change?  A prior user edit now incompatible with some build-time 
dependency?  Some hard-coded dependency you now have to live with, if you want 
to update a package?  Additional information to this effect would save time 
fishing around in ebuilds and upstream bug reports, trying to invent 
workarounds and creating noise in BGO.


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Re: [gentoo-user] re-installed KDE doesn't start : solved

[Eli Schwartz]

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On 7/27/25 6:46 AM, Philip Webb wrote:

> I've run into this before, eg re sound, but not so severely.
> It's a defect in Portage, which no-one seems to want to acknowledge :
> it will happily update a pkg without including its vital requirements.

I think that shouldn't be able to happen except when using --oneshot, or
at least, all the times I can recall seeing this were in such a case --
because portage allows uninstalling or upgrading a package to break
another installed package, iff that other package is eligible for
--depclean.

But that is why you're advised to regularly do a full world update
followed by depclean...

> I was able to solve the problem with the help of 'pkg.ref',
> my own invention long ago (I've been using Gentoo since 2003).
> Here is an extract, listing all 'media-libs' pkgs which are installed :
> 
>     230717 media-libs/a52dec-0.7.4-r8 [for vlc]
>     250427 media-libs/alsa-lib-1.2.13-r3 [for FF]
>     230717 media-libs/alsa-topology-conf-1.2.5.1 [for alsa-lib]


Is this manually maintained? What happens when a package is installed
due to multiple other packages?

For top level packages I like to use /etc/portage/sets/* which supports
comments describing why each package should be in @world.


-- 
Eli Schwartz

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Re: [gentoo-user] re-installed KDE doesn't start : solved

[Philip Webb]

250729 Eli Schwartz wrote:
> On 7/27/25 6:46 AM, Philip Webb wrote:
>> I've run into this before, eg re sound, but not so severely.
>> It's a defect in Portage, which no-one seems to want to acknowledge :
>> it will happily update a pkg without including its vital requirements.
> I think that shouldn't be able to happen except when using --oneshot,
> or at least all the times I can recall seeing this were in such a case,
> because Portage allows uninstalling or upgrading a package
> to break another installed package
> iff that other package is eligible for --depclean.
> But that is why you're advised to regularly do a full world update
> followed by depclean.

I regularly use '-1' when emerging, but have never been aware
that that caused significantly different behaviour in itself.
in this case, 'clementine' is in my 'world' file.

As I see it, Portage allowed 'clementine' to be updated,
while failing to insist that some other pkg(s) were updated to match :
it's that simple & Portage shouldn't behave like that.

>> I was able to solve the problem with the help of 'pkg.ref',
>> my own invention long ago (I've been using Gentoo since 2003).
>> Here is an extract, listing all 'media-libs' pkgs which are installed :
>> 
>>     230717 media-libs/a52dec-0.7.4-r8 [for vlc]
>>     250427 media-libs/alsa-lib-1.2.13-r3 [for FF]
>>     230717 media-libs/alsa-topology-conf-1.2.5.1 [for alsa-lib]
 
> Is this manually maintained ?

Yes : I carefully update it whenever I emerge anything.
Pkgs in 'world' are marked 'W' & in 'system' 'S' ;
also, pkgs with special USE needs are marked 'USE'
& there is a list of such pkgs + flags towards the end of 'pkg.ref'.

> What happens when a package is installed due to multiple other packages ?

The '[for ...]' note lists them all.

> For top level packages I like to use /etc/portage/sets/* ,
> which supports comments describing why each package should be in @world.

I have several such files in the 'sets' dir, eg 'dev-qt',
which allows me to remove & re-install multiple pkgs easily.

I don't know how anyone can manage a Gentoo system without such a file.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatcadotinterdotnet

Re: [gentoo-user] re-installed KDE doesn't start : solved

[Michael]

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On Wednesday, 30 July 2025 09:27:29 British Summer Time Philip Webb wrote:
> 250729 Eli Schwartz wrote:
> > On 7/27/25 6:46 AM, Philip Webb wrote:
> >> I've run into this before, eg re sound, but not so severely.
> >> It's a defect in Portage, which no-one seems to want to acknowledge :
> >> it will happily update a pkg without including its vital requirements.
> > 
> > I think that shouldn't be able to happen except when using --oneshot,
> > or at least all the times I can recall seeing this were in such a case,
> > because Portage allows uninstalling or upgrading a package
> > to break another installed package
> > iff that other package is eligible for --depclean.
> > But that is why you're advised to regularly do a full world update
> > followed by depclean.
> 
> I regularly use '-1' when emerging, but have never been aware
> that that caused significantly different behaviour in itself.
> in this case, 'clementine' is in my 'world' file.

The purpose of --oneshot is explained in 'man emerge', along with a warning 
which Eli has pointed at:
=======================
 --oneshot, -1
        Emerge as normal, but do not add the packages to the world file for 
later updating.

        WARNING:  This option should only be used for packages that are 
reachable from the @world package set (those that would not be removed by --
depclean), since dependencies of unreachable packages  are  allowed  to be 
broken when satisfying dependencies of other packages.  Broken dependencies of 
this sort will invalidate assumptions that make it possible for --deep to be 
disabled by default.
====================

I only use '-1' to temporarily emerge a package when I'm testing things and do 
not want a package to be inadvertently added to my world file.  This is 
particularly useful when I install some library, try a new package slot and so 
on.  Later on --depclean will remove it along with any build and run time 
dependencies which were dragged in.  This allows me to keep the contents of 
world clean as well as removing any unnecessary dependencies shrapnel from my 
system.


> As I see it, Portage allowed 'clementine' to be updated,
> while failing to insist that some other pkg(s) were updated to match :
> it's that simple & Portage shouldn't behave like that.

Portage would not behave like that, if you used it the way it was intended to 
be used;  'emerge -uaDv world' or 'emerge -uaDv clementine' would update 
clementine because it is in your @world set.  The -D option will update any 
dependencies of clementine, ensuring your system has all packages required to 
build clementine and be able to run it thereafter.  If you add '-N' it will 
take account of any changes in USE flags too.  In case you are emerging a 
binary package from binhost, you can use '--with-bdeps n' to stop emerge 
installing build time dependencies not needed for binary packages.


> >> I was able to solve the problem with the help of 'pkg.ref',
> >> my own invention long ago (I've been using Gentoo since 2003).
> >> 
> >> Here is an extract, listing all 'media-libs' pkgs which are installed :
> >>     230717 media-libs/a52dec-0.7.4-r8 [for vlc]
> >>     250427 media-libs/alsa-lib-1.2.13-r3 [for FF]
> >>     230717 media-libs/alsa-topology-conf-1.2.5.1 [for alsa-lib]
> > 
> > Is this manually maintained ?
> 
> Yes : I carefully update it whenever I emerge anything.
> Pkgs in 'world' are marked 'W' & in 'system' 'S' ;
> also, pkgs with special USE needs are marked 'USE'
> & there is a list of such pkgs + flags towards the end of 'pkg.ref'.

This approach may be a niche hobby and a time sink, but it is not necessary 
for installing or maintaining a settled Gentoo system, assuming you use an 
appropriate make.profile and install any individual packages you want to 
remain on your system.


> > What happens when a package is installed due to multiple other packages ?
> 
> The '[for ...]' note lists them all.
> 
> > For top level packages I like to use /etc/portage/sets/* ,
> > which supports comments describing why each package should be in @world.
> 
> I have several such files in the 'sets' dir, eg 'dev-qt',
> which allows me to remove & re-install multiple pkgs easily.

Why would you need to remove, or re-install 'dev-qt', when it is being managed 
as a dependency of packages you will have installed on your system - e.g. 
Plasma/KDE?  Portage will see to it being kept up to date without your manual 
intervention and --depclean will remove any older versions of dev-qt/* 
packages no longer needed.  There is a good use case for your own set files, 
e.g. you are setting up a LAMP server, or a different DE, etc., but usually 
the default sets are adequate for most everyday use cases.


> I don't know how anyone can manage a Gentoo system without such a file.

Believe it or not I rarely create my own set files and only do so when I want 
to test something.  :-)

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Re: [gentoo-user] re-installed KDE doesn't start : solved

[Dale]

Philip Webb wrote:
> I regularly use '-1' when emerging, but have never been aware
> that that caused significantly different behaviour in itself.
> in this case, 'clementine' is in my 'world' file.
>


As you might now, I built a new rig recently.  I've built three since I
started using Gentoo.  When I first do a install, I have some default
options for emerge in make.conf.  Once I get all the packages I want to
be in my world file installed, I then go back and add -1 to emerge
options in make.conf.  That way if I run into a problem with a package,
want to install something temporarily or otherwise do something I don't
want in my world file, then it is a one shot emerge by default.  This
keeps my world file clean.  I don't know how many times I've seen people
have problems because a package was entered, often with a specific
version, in the world file and that blocks other updates.  Another bad
thing to have in the world file, library packages. 

With that setting, emerge won't add manually emerged packages to the
world file.  If I install something new that I want to be in the world
file, I override the -1 option by putting --select y on the command
line.  That emerges the package and then adds it to the world file so
that it gets updated when I do my emerge -auDN world.  If I already have
the package installed, I add the -n option so that it doesn't reemerge
and compile it again.  It just checks to make sure things are installed
correctly and adds the package to the world file. 

I've been doing it this way for a long time.  Likely since I found out
about the -1 option which was a long time ago, likely my first build.  I
don't have to remember to add the -1 option on the command line when
trying to work around a problem or just wanting something for a one time
use.  Once I finish a install, I rarely add anything new so even having
to add the --select y is not used very often. 

On a system while installing, the -1 option isn't a good idea.  Once
that is done tho, I think it is best to have it set as the default.  It
is the easiest way to make sure that the only things that go in the
world file is only what you want in there.  Packages that you use
directly.  I'm not sure why this isn't mentioned in the install handbook
as a best method once a install is done.  Unless it has been added and I
don't know it yet.  ;-) 

You mentioned using sets.  I tried using sets.  All it did was create
more work.  If I have something installed here, I use it, sometimes a
LOT.  Therefore, I want them all to be as up to date as is available.  I
found that even when I did have sets, the sets were in the world file
and being updated anyway.  No real point in that when just putting for
example, kicad-meta, in the world file and skipping the sets.  Some may
like it.  I've read of people using and liking how it works.  For me
tho, it was just more work.  So, some of us long term users do just fine
without sets.  :-D 

Over the years, I've came up with a method of updating my system and
default options for emerge that works well.  My packages are stable and
crashes are rare.  I can't even recall the last crash.  I'd be more than
happy to share some of those settings and my steps if interested. 

Just something for you to think on. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] re-installed KDE doesn't start : solved

[Eli Schwartz]

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On 7/30/25 9:55 AM, Dale wrote:

> You mentioned using sets.  I tried using sets.  All it did was create
> more work.  If I have something installed here, I use it, sometimes a
> LOT.  Therefore, I want them all to be as up to date as is available.  I
> found that even when I did have sets, the sets were in the world file
> and being updated anyway.  No real point in that when just putting for
> example, kicad-meta, in the world file and skipping the sets.  Some may
> like it.  I've read of people using and liking how it works.  For me
> tho, it was just more work.  So, some of us long term users do just fine
> without sets.  :-D 


The reason I mentioned sets is because sets are indeed *basically the
same* as adding to world...

... except you can add comments to a set, to remind you why some package
is needed.

"Adding comments" felt related to what the OP is doing. Indeed, not
everyone feels the need for them.


-- 
Eli Schwartz

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Re: [gentoo-user] re-installed KDE doesn't start : solved

[Peter Humphrey]

On Wednesday, 30 July 2025 14:55:55 British Summer Time Dale wrote:

> ... I tried using sets.  All it did was create
> more work.  If I have something installed here, I use it, sometimes a
> LOT.  Therefore, I want them all to be as up to date as is available.  I
> found that even when I did have sets, the sets were in the world file
> and being updated anyway.  No real point in that when just putting for
> example, kicad-meta, in the world file and skipping the sets.  Some may
> like it.  I've read of people using and liking how it works.  For me
> tho, it was just more work.  So, some of us long term users do just fine
> without sets.  :-D 

On the other hand, I find life easier with everything in sets. I passed through 
a phase when I was reinstalling systems rather too often, and rather than sit 
here for hours doing piecemeal installations, it was much easier to start a 
set emerging and go and do something else while it got on with it.

I sometimes install something to see if I like it, and it goes into @world. If 
I decide to keep it, it comes out of world and into a suitable set; otherwise 
I uninstall it. My world file is therefore usually empty, but now you've 
prompted me to check it and I see a few things in there that I thought I'd 
uninstalled. So, thanks for the reminder!

Of course, now that my system is stable, more-or-less, I could revert to the 
usual way of working, but then I'd have some work to do. It could be done in a 
few commands; the harder part would be my having to mend my ways.  :-)

In case anyone's interested, this is my standard set of sets, in order of 
installation:

$ ls -1 /etc/portage/sets    # arranged by hand
core
base
apps
xorg
plasma
utils

@core includes linux-firmware and gentoo-sources, which several @base packages 
require to have been installed.

Many other schemes could be used, I'm sure, but mine is here for historical 
reasons; not hysterical, these days :-) 

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] re-installed KDE doesn't start : solved

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Wednesday, 30 July 2025 14:55:55 British Summer Time Dale wrote:
>
>> ... I tried using sets.  All it did was create
>> more work.  If I have something installed here, I use it, sometimes a
>> LOT.  Therefore, I want them all to be as up to date as is available.  I
>> found that even when I did have sets, the sets were in the world file
>> and being updated anyway.  No real point in that when just putting for
>> example, kicad-meta, in the world file and skipping the sets.  Some may
>> like it.  I've read of people using and liking how it works.  For me
>> tho, it was just more work.  So, some of us long term users do just fine
>> without sets.  :-D 
> On the other hand, I find life easier with everything in sets. I passed through 
> a phase when I was reinstalling systems rather too often, and rather than sit 
> here for hours doing piecemeal installations, it was much easier to start a 
> set emerging and go and do something else while it got on with it.
>
> I sometimes install something to see if I like it, and it goes into @world. If 
> I decide to keep it, it comes out of world and into a suitable set; otherwise 
> I uninstall it. My world file is therefore usually empty, but now you've 
> prompted me to check it and I see a few things in there that I thought I'd 
> uninstalled. So, thanks for the reminder!
>
> Of course, now that my system is stable, more-or-less, I could revert to the 
> usual way of working, but then I'd have some work to do. It could be done in a 
> few commands; the harder part would be my having to mend my ways.  :-)
>
> In case anyone's interested, this is my standard set of sets, in order of 
> installation:
>
> $ ls -1 /etc/portage/sets    # arranged by hand
> core
> base
> apps
> xorg
> plasma
> utils
>
> @core includes linux-firmware and gentoo-sources, which several @base packages 
> require to have been installed.
>
> Many other schemes could be used, I'm sure, but mine is here for historical 
> reasons; not hysterical, these days :-) 
>


This is like a lot of other things in life.  Sometimes it depends on the
situation.  You take the devs that are always making changes to ebuilds,
testing, making more changes and testing some more before it hits the
tree.  I'm sure they have a lot of unique ways of testing, updating and
likely even installing packages.  I suspect some use sets, some may
not.  Some may have one process while others are completely different. 
They do things in a way that works for them and gives them the best
results. 

For me and my simplistic and consistent way of updating, sets just makes
more work and doesn't gain me anything.  If sets work for you, and
others, by all means use them.  It just doesn't work for me.  When I
sync and do my updates, I want emerge to update everything at once if
possible.  I run one update command and it's done. 

I'm also sure for some, including me, we do things the way we do because
that's how we have done it for a long time.  If it's working, don't mess
with it.  LOL  :-D 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  I picked okra this morning.  Got almost two ice cream buckets
full.  :-D 

Re: [gentoo-user] re-installed KDE doesn't start : solved

[Peter Humphrey]

On Thursday, 31 July 2025 14:50:36 British Summer Time Dale wrote:
> Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 30 July 2025 14:55:55 British Summer Time Dale wrote:
> >> ... I tried using sets.  All it did was create
> >> more work.  If I have something installed here, I use it, sometimes a
> >> LOT.  Therefore, I want them all to be as up to date as is available.  I
> >> found that even when I did have sets, the sets were in the world file
> >> and being updated anyway.  No real point in that when just putting for
> >> example, kicad-meta, in the world file and skipping the sets.  Some may
> >> like it.  I've read of people using and liking how it works.  For me
> >> tho, it was just more work.  So, some of us long term users do just fine
> >> without sets.  :-D
> > 
> > On the other hand, I find life easier with everything in sets. I passed
> > through a phase when I was reinstalling systems rather too often, and
> > rather than sit here for hours doing piecemeal installations, it was much
> > easier to start a set emerging and go and do something else while it got
> > on with it.
> > 
> > I sometimes install something to see if I like it, and it goes into
> > @world. If I decide to keep it, it comes out of world and into a suitable
> > set; otherwise I uninstall it. My world file is therefore usually empty,
> > but now you've prompted me to check it and I see a few things in there
> > that I thought I'd uninstalled. So, thanks for the reminder!
> > 
> > Of course, now that my system is stable, more-or-less, I could revert to
> > the usual way of working, but then I'd have some work to do. It could be
> > done in a few commands; the harder part would be my having to mend my
> > ways.  :-)
> > 
> > In case anyone's interested, this is my standard set of sets, in order of
> > installation:
> > 
> > $ ls -1 /etc/portage/sets    # arranged by hand
> > core
> > base
> > apps
> > xorg
> > plasma
> > utils
> > 
> > @core includes linux-firmware and gentoo-sources, which several @base
> > packages require to have been installed.
> > 
> > Many other schemes could be used, I'm sure, but mine is here for
> > historical reasons; not hysterical, these days :-)
> 
> This is like a lot of other things in life.  Sometimes it depends on the
> situation.  You take the devs that are always making changes to ebuilds,
> testing, making more changes and testing some more before it hits the
> tree.  I'm sure they have a lot of unique ways of testing, updating and
> likely even installing packages.  I suspect some use sets, some may
> not.  Some may have one process while others are completely different. 
> They do things in a way that works for them and gives them the best
> results. 
> 
> For me and my simplistic and consistent way of updating, sets just makes
> more work and doesn't gain me anything.  If sets work for you, and
> others, by all means use them.  It just doesn't work for me.  When I
> sync and do my updates, I want emerge to update everything at once if
> possible.  I run one update command and it's done. 

So do I. Any set I install is recorded in /var/lib/portage/world_sets and so 
forms part of @world.

> I'm also sure for some, including me, we do things the way we do because
> that's how we have done it for a long time. If it's working, don't mess
> with it. 

Quite so.  :)

-- 
Regards,
Peter.