[gentoo-user] KDE 5 hangs around

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* [gentoo-user] KDE 5 hangs around
@ 2024-12-09 20:05 Philip Webb
  2024-12-09 20:52 ` Eli Schwartz
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Philip Webb @ 2024-12-09 20:05 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: Gentoo User

Can anyone explain why, when I go to install KDE-6 pkgs,
Portage tells me that I have to install KDE-5 pkgs as well ?
-- I removed all of KDE-5 back in October :

  root:548 ~> emerge -pv kwayland-integration
  These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-plasma/kwayland-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.2.4:6::gentoo] USE="-debug -doc% -test" 0 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kwindowsystem-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="X -debug -doc -test wayland" 0 KiB
  [ebuild  N     ] kde-plasma/kwayland-integration-6.2.4:5::gentoo  USE="-debug" 26 KiB

Why indeed is KDE-5 still supported anywhere in Gentoo ?

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatcadotinterdotnet



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 5 hangs around
  2024-12-09 20:05 [gentoo-user] KDE 5 hangs around Philip Webb
@ 2024-12-09 20:52 ` Eli Schwartz
  2024-12-09 22:02   ` Philip Webb
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Eli Schwartz @ 2024-12-09 20:52 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1354 bytes --]

On 12/9/24 3:05 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
> Can anyone explain why, when I go to install KDE-6 pkgs,
> Portage tells me that I have to install KDE-5 pkgs as well ?
> -- I removed all of KDE-5 back in October :
> 
>   root:548 ~> emerge -pv kwayland-integration
>   These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
>   [ebuild  NS    ] kde-plasma/kwayland-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.2.4:6::gentoo] USE="-debug -doc% -test" 0 KiB
>   [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kwindowsystem-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="X -debug -doc -test wayland" 0 KiB
>   [ebuild  N     ] kde-plasma/kwayland-integration-6.2.4:5::gentoo  USE="-debug" 26 KiB



In general, you can use the -t option to emerge, which tells you exactly
which dependencies are required for what.

In this case it's no great mystery:

https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwayland-integration

> This remains Qt 5 only as its features have been moved into
> KWindowSystem in KF6, but this is still necessary for compatibility
> with Qt 5 apps.

Seems like a good enough reason to me -- why did you want to install it?
It appears that it is not, in fact, a "KDE-6 pkg" after all. :)



> Why indeed is KDE-5 still supported anywhere in Gentoo ?


Because not everything has been ported to KDE 6 just because plasma has
been?



-- 
Eli Schwartz

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 5 hangs around
  2024-12-09 20:52 ` Eli Schwartz
@ 2024-12-09 22:02   ` Philip Webb
  2024-12-09 22:35     ` Eli Schwartz
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Philip Webb @ 2024-12-09 22:02 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

241209 Eli Schwartz wrote:
> In general, you can use the -t option to emerge,
> which tells you exactly, which dependencies are required for what.

Thanx for your v prompt response.  I do use  -t  sometimes.

> In this case it's no great mystery:
> https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwayland-integration
> This remains Qt 5 only,
> as its features have been moved into KWindowSystem in KF6,
> but this is still necessary for compatibility with Qt 5 apps.
> Seems like a good enough reason to me -- why did you want to install it?

See the listing below : I wanted to update KDE Plasma, now available,
but ran into a long list of KDE-5 slots & was trying to understand why,
so I tried 'emerge -pv kio', whose output you can see below ;
it wanted to install Kwayland-integration therein, so I tried that.

> It appears that it is not, in fact, a "KDE-6 pkg" after all. :)

  root:550 ~> eix kwayland-integration
  * kde-plasma/kwayland-integration
  Available versions:  (5) 6.1.5 6.2.4 {debug}

That looks like a KDE-6 pkg, doesn't it ?
If the '(5)' means it's KDE-5, whyever are the versions '6.x.x' ??

PP> Why indeed is KDE-5 still supported anywhere in Gentoo ?
ES> Because not everything has been ported to KDE 6,
> just because plasma has been?

Whyever not, given the complication wh arise therefrom ?
Time has passed, action shd have been taken.
Yes, I do always appreciate the unpaid labor of Gentoo devs & cb patient,
if that is the actual problem (smile).

Why am I required to install all these KDE-5 slots simply to update Kio ?

  root:551 ~> eixe kio
  [U] kde-frameworks/kio
  Available versions:  
  (5)    5.116.0-r3(5/5.116)^t
  (6)    6.7.0(6/6.7)^t 6.7.0-r1(6/6.7)^t ~6.8.0-r1(6/6.8)^t
  {X acl debug designer doc +handbook kerberos +kwallet test wayland}
  Installed versions:  6.6.0(6/6.6)^t(23:01:35 10/07/24)
  (X acl handbook kwallet wayland -debug -designer -doc -test)
  root:552 ~> 

  root:549 ~> emerge -pv kio
  setlocale: unsupported locale setting
  setlocale: unsupported locale setting
  
  These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
  
  Calculating dependencies... done!
  Dependency resolution took 9.89 s (backtrack: 3/20).
  
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-plasma/kwayland-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.2.4:6::gentoo] USE="-debug -doc% -test" 0 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/ki18n-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -doc -test" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="-python3_10 -python3_11 python3_12 -python3_13" 3057 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kconfig-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="dbus -debug -doc qml -test" 290 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -designer -doc -test" 4173 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kdbusaddons-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="X -debug -doc -test" 48 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/karchive-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -doc -test zstd" 1004 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kcodecs-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -doc -test" 2449 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kitemviews-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -designer -doc -test" 2212 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/sonnet-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-aspell -debug -designer -doc hunspell qml -test" 2351 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] dev-qt/qttranslations-5.15.14:5::gentoo [6.7.2:6/6.7.2::gentoo] USE="-debug% -test%" 1589 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kcoreaddons-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="dbus -debug -doc (-fam) -test" 2551 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kdoctools-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug nls -test" 455 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kcompletion-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -designer -doc -test" 2283 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kcrash-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="X -debug -doc -test" 28 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kjobwidgets-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="X%* -debug -doc -test" 2216 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kguiaddons-5.116.0-r1:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="X dbus -debug -doc kf6compat%* -test wayland" 77 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kauth-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -doc (policykit) -test" 2254 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kconfigwidgets-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -designer -doc man%* -test" 2554 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kiconthemes-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -designer -doc -test" 1282 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kservice-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -doc man -test" 2480 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/solid-5.116.0-r1:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -doc -ios -test" 301 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/ktextwidgets-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -designer -doc -speech -test" 2493 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kded-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug man" 41 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kwindowsystem-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="X -debug -doc -test wayland" 0 KiB
  [ebuild  N     ] kde-plasma/kwayland-integration-6.2.4:5::gentoo  USE="-debug" 26 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/knotifications-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="X%* dbus%* -debug -doc -phonon% qml%* -speech%" 2318 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kglobalaccel-5.116.0-r1:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -doc kf6compat%* -test" 2252 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kxmlgui-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -designer -doc -test" 2885 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kwallet-5.116.0-r1:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0-r1:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -doc -gpg kf6compat%* man -test" 346 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kbookmarks-5.116.0:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="-debug -doc -test" 1075 KiB
  [ebuild  NS    ] kde-frameworks/kio-5.116.0-r3:5/5.116::gentoo [6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo] USE="X acl -debug -designer -doc handbook -kerberos% kwallet -test (-wayland%*)" 3712 KiB
  
  Total: 31 packages (1 new, 30 in new slots), Size of downloads: 48790 KiB
  
  WARNING: One or more updates/rebuilds have been skipped due to a dependency conflict:
  
  kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons:6
  
    (kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.7.0:6/6.7::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) USE="-debug -designer -doc -test" ABI_X86="(64)" conflicts with
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/kxmlgui-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -designer -doc -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/knewstuff-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -designer -doc -opds" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/ktexteditor-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -doc editorconfig -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/kiconthemes-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -designer -doc -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/frameworkintegration-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/kwallet-6.6.0-r1:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -doc -gpg man -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/kcmutils-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -doc -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/kcompletion-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -designer -doc -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/ktextwidgets-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -designer -doc -speech -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/kdeclarative-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -doc" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/kjobwidgets-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -doc -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/kio-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="X acl -debug -designer -doc handbook kwallet -test wayland" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/kparts-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -doc -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/kbookmarks-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -doc -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
      =kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-6.6*:6 required by (kde-frameworks/kconfigwidgets-6.6.0:6/6.6::gentoo, installed) USE="-debug -designer -doc -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^                              ^^^^  
  
  
  !!! The following update(s) have been skipped due to unsatisfied dependencies
  !!! triggered by backtracking:
  
  kde-frameworks/kio:6
  root:550 ~> 

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatcadotinterdotnet



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 5 hangs around
  2024-12-09 22:02   ` Philip Webb
@ 2024-12-09 22:35     ` Eli Schwartz
  2024-12-23 23:01       ` Philip Webb
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Eli Schwartz @ 2024-12-09 22:35 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3299 bytes --]

On 12/9/24 5:02 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
> 241209 Eli Schwartz wrote:
>> In general, you can use the -t option to emerge,
>> which tells you exactly, which dependencies are required for what.
> 
> Thanx for your v prompt response.  I do use  -t  sometimes.
> 
>> In this case it's no great mystery:
>> https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwayland-integration
>> This remains Qt 5 only,
>> as its features have been moved into KWindowSystem in KF6,
>> but this is still necessary for compatibility with Qt 5 apps.
>> Seems like a good enough reason to me -- why did you want to install it?
> 
> See the listing below : I wanted to update KDE Plasma, now available,
> but ran into a long list of KDE-5 slots & was trying to understand why,
> so I tried 'emerge -pv kio', whose output you can see below ;
> it wanted to install Kwayland-integration therein, so I tried that.

Nope, your output below for "emerge -pv kio" is showing that installing
kio:6 fails due to needing an updated kwidgetsaddons-6.7, which cannot
be upgraded on its own as it needs to be updated in lockstep with
kxmlgui knewstuff ktexteditor kiconthemes frameworkintegration kwallet
kcmutils and various other packages.

Since you could not install kio:6, emerge tried to install kio:5
instead? Naturally, kio:5 depends on various KDE 5 packages.

If you want to understand why updating *plasma* is showing KDE-5 slots,
emerging kio on its own won't tell you why. At least, it won't tell you
why unless you update to the same version of kio that the original
plasma update was also offering.

Did you try using -t with your *original* plasma update?

>> It appears that it is not, in fact, a "KDE-6 pkg" after all. :)
> 
>   root:550 ~> eix kwayland-integration
>   * kde-plasma/kwayland-integration
>   Available versions:  (5) 6.1.5 6.2.4 {debug}
> 
> That looks like a KDE-6 pkg, doesn't it ?
> If the '(5)' means it's KDE-5, whyever are the versions '6.x.x' ??
> 
> PP> Why indeed is KDE-5 still supported anywhere in Gentoo ?
> ES> Because not everything has been ported to KDE 6,
>> just because plasma has been?
> 
> Whyever not, given the complication wh arise therefrom ?
> Time has passed, action shd have been taken.
> Yes, I do always appreciate the unpaid labor of Gentoo devs & cb patient,
> if that is the actual problem (smile).

Your appreciation of unpaid labor doesn't really help, I'm afraid. :(

Lots of software still exists which was written during the KDE 5 days
and doesn't have active upstream maintainers. Those tend to take a while
to update, and not all will end up updating at all -- some packages may
end up dropped for their lack of maintenance, eventually...

No one is forced to use KDE 5 if they don't want to. It very much
depends on the software you want to run.

Gentoo has nothing to do with it and Gentoo devs can't make that
software be magically ported to KDE 6, whether you appreciate the labor
or not, whether you are patient or not.

On the other hand, maybe you don't use that software at all.

> Why am I required to install all these KDE-5 slots simply to update Kio ?

Due to a slot conflict, portage tried to downgrade kio to KDE-5, and
also install all of kio 5's dependencies.

-- 
Eli Schwartz

[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 5 hangs around
  2024-12-09 22:35     ` Eli Schwartz
@ 2024-12-23 23:01       ` Philip Webb
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Philip Webb @ 2024-12-23 23:01 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

241209 Eli Schwartz wrote:
> your output below for "emerge -pv kio" is showing that installing
> kio:6 fails due to needing an updated kwidgetsaddons-6.7,
> which cannot be upgraded on its own as it needs to be updated in lockstep
> with kxmlgui knewstuff ktexteditor kiconthemes frameworkintegration kwallet
> kcmutils and various other packages.

Yes, that's my experience w KDE + Qt in the past.
I solved the problem as before by logging into Fluxbox,
removing KDE Apps Plasma Frameworks via @-files
& re-installing ditto in reverse order ; everything worked.

> Since you could not install kio:6, emerge tried to install kio:5 instead.
> Naturally, kio:5 depends on various KDE 5 packages.

That's lunatic ! -- very few, if any, users would want to do that.

Portage lacks intelligence & it shows an obtuse face to users.
It's been there largely unchanged since I started using Gentoo in 2003.
It's high time some effort was put into a serious update.

> Lots of software still exists which was written during the KDE 5 days
> and doesn't have active upstream maintainers.  Those tend to take a while
> to update, and not all will end up updating at all -- some packages
> may end up dropped for their lack of maintenance, eventually.

Yes indeed : I dropped my favorite file-manager Krusader,
which won't work with KDE 6 ; perhaps it wb brought upto-date one day.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatcadotinterdotnet

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2024-12-23 23:01 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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2024-12-09 20:05 [gentoo-user] KDE 5 hangs around Philip Webb
2024-12-09 20:52 ` Eli Schwartz
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