[gentoo-user] For those who complain

[gentoo-user] For those who complain

[Albert W. Hopkins]

For those who complain about default portage behavior:
It changes constantly. If you can't accept the bleeding edge behavior,
you're probably using the wrong distro.  There are always going to be
changes.  Some you don't like, some you say "oh gosh, finally!".  For
the latter, I cheer, for former, I work around.  EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS is
your friend.

For those who complain about not knowing something was
added/removed/changed.  Most packages do a decent job of providing good
ChangeLogs, either from Gentoo or upstream.  It's not Gentoo's
responsibility to make you read them.  It's like reading the fine print.
Yet you can't complain that it's not there if it's in the fine print.
Some say there should be more "announcements" for changes, yet others
say there are too many announcements and important stuff gets lost.  One
man's trash is another man's treasure.  There just doesn't exist a sweet
spot that will satisfy everyone.

For those who complain about man pages being too cryptic/incomplete/etc.
Man pages have pretty much always been designed to be reference manuals.
The key word is "reference".  They are not guides, they are not
tutorials.  They are more suited for "I know this library provides a
function to do *this* but I don't know the function's signature".  They
are less suited for "I don't know how to do *this*".  There are other
resources for the latter.  And if there are not, that's not the fault of
the man page.  But in my experience, and I'm sure I'm not alone on this,
most people who complain about man pages are those who don't bother, or
at least put *very* little effort, to *read* the man pages.

For those who complain "Why do I have to compile all this stuff to get
X?": Why are you using Gentoo?

For those who complain about bugs/regressions: Why do you use software?

For those who complain about software/features needed/unwanted/changed
in a way you disagree with: Where is your patch?

For those who have genuine technical questions; for those who can
provide answers to those questions w/o being overly critical; for those
who give back by submitting bug reports, patches, ideas, praise: Thank
you.

Gentoo is a rainbow with no end and no pot of gold.

-a

Re: [gentoo-user] For those who complain

[Dale]

Albert W. Hopkins wrote:
> For those who complain about default portage behavior:
> It changes constantly. If you can't accept the bleeding edge behavior,
> you're probably using the wrong distro.  There are always going to be
> changes.  Some you don't like, some you say "oh gosh, finally!".  For
> the latter, I cheer, for former, I work around.  EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS is
> your friend.
> 
> For those who complain about not knowing something was
> added/removed/changed.  Most packages do a decent job of providing good
> ChangeLogs, either from Gentoo or upstream.  It's not Gentoo's
> responsibility to make you read them.  It's like reading the fine print.
> Yet you can't complain that it's not there if it's in the fine print.
> Some say there should be more "announcements" for changes, yet others
> say there are too many announcements and important stuff gets lost.  One
> man's trash is another man's treasure.  There just doesn't exist a sweet
> spot that will satisfy everyone.
> 
> For those who complain about man pages being too cryptic/incomplete/etc.
> Man pages have pretty much always been designed to be reference manuals.
> The key word is "reference".  They are not guides, they are not
> tutorials.  They are more suited for "I know this library provides a
> function to do *this* but I don't know the function's signature".  They
> are less suited for "I don't know how to do *this*".  There are other
> resources for the latter.  And if there are not, that's not the fault of
> the man page.  But in my experience, and I'm sure I'm not alone on this,
> most people who complain about man pages are those who don't bother, or
> at least put *very* little effort, to *read* the man pages.
> 
> For those who complain "Why do I have to compile all this stuff to get
> X?": Why are you using Gentoo?
> 
> For those who complain about bugs/regressions: Why do you use software?
> 
> For those who complain about software/features needed/unwanted/changed
> in a way you disagree with: Where is your patch?
> 
> For those who have genuine technical questions; for those who can
> provide answers to those questions w/o being overly critical; for those
> who give back by submitting bug reports, patches, ideas, praise: Thank
> you.
> 
> Gentoo is a rainbow with no end and no pot of gold.
> 
> -a
> 


And sometimes those people are finding problems.  This is from -dev:

On 01/20/2012 10:28 AM, Hilco Wijbenga wrote:
> I'd like to chime in here. I started a thread on gentoo-user (Portage
> option "--changed-use" not working?) pretty much about this.
>
> I use --changed-use instead of --newuse to get the advantages of a
> fully up-to-date system without the unnecessary churn. From the man
> page I understand that (part of) the idea behind --changed-use is to
> *not* rebuild packages where an unused/disabled USE flag is dropped.
> Which ought to apply to kdeenablefinal, right?
>
> It seems my understanding is incorrect because I see --new-use +
> --exclude is being recommended, not --changed-use. Would somebody
> please set me straight?
You've found a bug. It's fixed in git now:

http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=a77292d37e3c2604479514abed2dda64dabace25

As a workaround, you can add --binpkg-respect-use=n to your options.
-- Thanks, Zac

So, it was a bug and Zac is fixing it.  Sometimes when people complain,
it is because something is not working as it should.

Also, complaining is sometimes beneficial.  It's how things get improved.

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output?  Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"

[gentoo-user] Re: For those who complain

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 01/20/2012 10:51 PM, Dale wrote:
> Albert W. Hopkins wrote:
>> [...]
>
> And sometimes those people are finding problems.

Please don't feed the troll.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: For those who complain

[Dale]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 01/20/2012 10:51 PM, Dale wrote:
>> Albert W. Hopkins wrote:
>>> [...]
>>
>> And sometimes those people are finding problems.
> 
> Please don't feed the troll.
> 
> 
> 


Since it was fixed, I took his food bowl away.

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output?  Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: For those who complain

[Érico Porto]

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Gentoo is a rainbow with no end and no pot of gold.

I will write that one down..

In the mean while, if you just want something that you install quickly on a
small system it is really good - assuming you will update your system only
6 to 6 months ...

Érico V. Porto


On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > On 01/20/2012 10:51 PM, Dale wrote:
> >> Albert W. Hopkins wrote:
> >>> [...]
> >>
> >> And sometimes those people are finding problems.
> >
> > Please don't feed the troll.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Since it was fixed, I took his food bowl away.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
> --
> I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
> how you interpreted my words!
>
> Miss the compile output?  Hint:
> EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"
>
>

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[gentoo-user] Re: For those who complain

[»Q«]

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:51:01 -0600
Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> So, it was a bug and Zac is fixing it.  Sometimes when people
> complain, it is because something is not working as it should.

I never saw Hilco as complaining, just questioning.  And in the
post you quoted (and which I've snipped), Hilco basically said "This
isn't working the way I think it should;  could you please take a look
at it?"  It's a stretch to call it a complaint.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: For those who complain

[Dale]

»Q« wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:51:01 -0600
> Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> So, it was a bug and Zac is fixing it.  Sometimes when people
>> complain, it is because something is not working as it should.
> 
> I never saw Hilco as complaining, just questioning.  And in the
> post you quoted (and which I've snipped), Hilco basically said "This
> isn't working the way I think it should;  could you please take a look
> at it?"  It's a stretch to call it a complaint.
> 
> 
> 


Well, look at the subject line.  I just used the OPs words, in this
thread.  He claimed it was complaining so I just used that.  The OP in
the other thread about this was not complaining, he was confused and had
some questions.  I'm still on the confused side but sort of have a idea
of the difference.

Thanks for pointing this out tho.  I didn't think about it coming off
that way.  Glad I could clear this up.  Well, I hope it did anyway.   ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output?  Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"