[gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Grant]

I'd like to receive ELOG messages in my inbox, but I'm hesitant to
leave my mail server's user:passwd in plain text in /etc/make.conf.
Do there exist public mail servers where I can send messages like this
to be delivered?  I guess that's called an open replay?  If I use my
ISP's mail server, should it still work when on a different ISP?

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Mittwoch 28 Oktober 2009, Grant wrote:
> I'd like to receive ELOG messages in my inbox, but I'm hesitant to
> leave my mail server's user:passwd in plain text in /etc/make.conf.

what?

> Do there exist public mail servers where I can send messages like this
> to be delivered?  I guess that's called an open replay? 

I hope none are left. Those are SPAM boxes. 

Is your mail server really configured that local root mail needs a password?

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 28.10.2009 17:47, schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:

> Is your mail server really configured that local root mail needs a password?

I don't have a local mail server on my desktop maschine. Sure, I could
install some kind of relay to my non-local mailserver but then I need to
store username and password in the config file of that relay.

Greetings

Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 28 October 2009 19:35:00 Sebastian Beßler wrote:
> Am 28.10.2009 17:47, schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:
> > Is your mail server really configured that local root mail needs a
> > password?
> 
> I don't have a local mail server on my desktop maschine. Sure, I could
> install some kind of relay to my non-local mailserver but then I need to
> store username and password in the config file of that relay.

You don't need a mailserver. Drop a text file formatted as mail in the admin 
users maildir, and point the mail client at it as just another source of mail.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 28.10.2009 18:59, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> On Wednesday 28 October 2009 19:35:00 Sebastian Beßler wrote:
>> Am 28.10.2009 17:47, schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:
>>> Is your mail server really configured that local root mail needs a
>>> password?
>>
>> I don't have a local mail server on my desktop maschine. Sure, I could
>> install some kind of relay to my non-local mailserver but then I need to
>> store username and password in the config file of that relay.
> 
> You don't need a mailserver. Drop a text file formatted as mail in the admin 
> users maildir, and point the mail client at it as just another source of mail.

That kind of delivery limits the access to this mails to the local
maschine. If I want to read local I don't need mails, I could just read
the logfiles from portage in /var/log/

But I am aware that solving this problem is nothing that portage has to
do, as it is no problem with portage at all.

My mail was just to show that not everyone has a local mailserver
running on his maschine.

Greetings

Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Mittwoch 28 Oktober 2009, Sebastian Beßler wrote:
> Am 28.10.2009 18:59, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> > On Wednesday 28 October 2009 19:35:00 Sebastian Beßler wrote:
> >> Am 28.10.2009 17:47, schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:
> >>> Is your mail server really configured that local root mail needs a
> >>> password?
> >>
> >> I don't have a local mail server on my desktop maschine. Sure, I could
> >> install some kind of relay to my non-local mailserver but then I need to
> >> store username and password in the config file of that relay.
> >
> > You don't need a mailserver. Drop a text file formatted as mail in the
> > admin users maildir, and point the mail client at it as just another
> > source of mail.
> 
> That kind of delivery limits the access to this mails to the local
> maschine. If I want to read local I don't need mails, I could just read
> the logfiles from portage in /var/log/
> 
> But I am aware that solving this problem is nothing that portage has to
> do, as it is no problem with portage at all.
> 
> My mail was just to show that not everyone has a local mailserver
> running on his maschine.
> 
> Greetings
> 
> Sebastian
> 

then let it store everything as elog and read that with elogv.

mail is just an additional bonus feature.

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 28 October 2009 20:44:59 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > That kind of delivery limits the access to this mails to the local
> > maschine. If I want to read local I don't need mails, I could just read
> > the logfiles from portage in /var/log/
> > 
> > But I am aware that solving this problem is nothing that portage has to
> > do, as it is no problem with portage at all.
> > 
> > My mail was just to show that not everyone has a local mailserver
> > running on his maschine.
> > 
> > Greetings
> > 
> > Sebastian
> > 
> 
> then let it store everything as elog and read that with elogv.
> 
> mail is just an additional bonus feature.
> 

His initial mail said that he would like a copy of elogs to go to his inbox at 
his ISP. Later mails imply he might want to read them over IMAP so they are 
accessible at multiple locations.

Sebastian,

Have you looked at ssmtp? Very light, very small and you can protect your 
login password with Unix file permissions instead of leaving them open in 
make.conf

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 28.10.2009 19:57, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> On Wednesday 28 October 2009 20:44:59 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>> That kind of delivery limits the access to this mails to the local
>>> maschine. If I want to read local I don't need mails, I could just read
>>> the logfiles from portage in /var/log/
>>>
>>> But I am aware that solving this problem is nothing that portage has to
>>> do, as it is no problem with portage at all.
>>>
>>> My mail was just to show that not everyone has a local mailserver
>>> running on his maschine.
>>>
>>> Greetings
>>>
>>> Sebastian
>>>
>>
>> then let it store everything as elog and read that with elogv.
>>
>> mail is just an additional bonus feature.
>>
> 
> His initial mail said that he would like a copy of elogs to go to his inbox at 
> his ISP. 

NO.. As I am NOT Grant I don't said that.
My Mail was more a reply to Volker Armin Hemmann to show that not
everyone has a local mailserver running (what Volker implied)

> Later mails imply he might want to read them over IMAP so they are 
> accessible at multiple locations.

Yes, that would be great.

> Have you looked at ssmtp? Very light, very small and you can protect your 
> login password with Unix file permissions instead of leaving them open in 
> make.conf

That sounds great, I absolutly going to look at it. Thanks for the tip,
maybe that is something for Grant too.

Greetings

Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Grant]

>> > That kind of delivery limits the access to this mails to the local
>> > maschine. If I want to read local I don't need mails, I could just read
>> > the logfiles from portage in /var/log/
>> >
>> > But I am aware that solving this problem is nothing that portage has to
>> > do, as it is no problem with portage at all.
>> >
>> > My mail was just to show that not everyone has a local mailserver
>> > running on his maschine.
>> >
>> > Greetings
>> >
>> > Sebastian
>> >
>>
>> then let it store everything as elog and read that with elogv.
>>
>> mail is just an additional bonus feature.
>>
>
> His initial mail said that he would like a copy of elogs to go to his inbox at
> his ISP. Later mails imply he might want to read them over IMAP so they are
> accessible at multiple locations.
>
> Sebastian,
>
> Have you looked at ssmtp? Very light, very small and you can protect your
> login password with Unix file permissions instead of leaving them open in
> make.conf

Could I use ssmtp to send elog mail to my email address?  I wouldn't
even need a login password if this is all I use it for, right?

- Gra t

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 28 October 2009 21:27:48 Grant wrote:
> >> > That kind of delivery limits the access to this mails to the local
> >> > maschine. If I want to read local I don't need mails, I could just
> >> > read the logfiles from portage in /var/log/
> >> >
> >> > But I am aware that solving this problem is nothing that portage has
> >> > to do, as it is no problem with portage at all.
> >> >
> >> > My mail was just to show that not everyone has a local mailserver
> >> > running on his maschine.
> >> >
> >> > Greetings
> >> >
> >> > Sebastian
> >>
> >> then let it store everything as elog and read that with elogv.
> >>
> >> mail is just an additional bonus feature.
> >
> > His initial mail said that he would like a copy of elogs to go to his
> > inbox at his ISP. Later mails imply he might want to read them over IMAP
> > so they are accessible at multiple locations.
> >
> > Sebastian,
> >
> > Have you looked at ssmtp? Very light, very small and you can protect your
> > login password with Unix file permissions instead of leaving them open in
> > make.conf
> 
> Could I use ssmtp to send elog mail to my email address?  I wouldn't
> even need a login password if this is all I use it for, right?

Yes. 

ssmtp is an email sender, it knows how to talk smtp to receiving servers or to 
relays. It doesn't receive mails.

If the relay you use requires a username/password or ssl, it supports that 
too.

[The receiving smtp server likely does not require a username/password, but it 
is equally likely to not accept connection direct from you, hence you should 
use your ISPs mail relay]


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Grant]

>> >> > That kind of delivery limits the access to this mails to the local
>> >> > maschine. If I want to read local I don't need mails, I could just
>> >> > read the logfiles from portage in /var/log/
>> >> >
>> >> > But I am aware that solving this problem is nothing that portage has
>> >> > to do, as it is no problem with portage at all.
>> >> >
>> >> > My mail was just to show that not everyone has a local mailserver
>> >> > running on his maschine.
>> >> >
>> >> > Greetings
>> >> >
>> >> > Sebastian
>> >>
>> >> then let it store everything as elog and read that with elogv.
>> >>
>> >> mail is just an additional bonus feature.
>> >
>> > His initial mail said that he would like a copy of elogs to go to his
>> > inbox at his ISP. Later mails imply he might want to read them over IMAP
>> > so they are accessible at multiple locations.
>> >
>> > Sebastian,
>> >
>> > Have you looked at ssmtp? Very light, very small and you can protect your
>> > login password with Unix file permissions instead of leaving them open in
>> > make.conf
>>
>> Could I use ssmtp to send elog mail to my email address?  I wouldn't
>> even need a login password if this is all I use it for, right?
>
> Yes.
>
> ssmtp is an email sender, it knows how to talk smtp to receiving servers or to
> relays. It doesn't receive mails.
>
> If the relay you use requires a username/password or ssl, it supports that
> too.

So I need a relay somewhere along with ssmtp to get a message to an
email address?

> [The receiving smtp server likely does not require a username/password, but it
> is equally likely to not accept connection direct from you, hence you should
> use your ISPs mail relay]

I likely can't use my ISP's mail relay when traveling, right?

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 2140 bytes --]

On Wednesday 28 October 2009 21:22:44 Grant wrote:
> >> >> > That kind of delivery limits the access to this mails to the local
> >> >> > maschine. If I want to read local I don't need mails, I could just
> >> >> > read the logfiles from portage in /var/log/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > But I am aware that solving this problem is nothing that portage
> >> >> > has to do, as it is no problem with portage at all.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My mail was just to show that not everyone has a local mailserver
> >> >> > running on his maschine.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Greetings
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sebastian
> >> >>
> >> >> then let it store everything as elog and read that with elogv.
> >> >>
> >> >> mail is just an additional bonus feature.
> >> >
> >> > His initial mail said that he would like a copy of elogs to go to his
> >> > inbox at his ISP. Later mails imply he might want to read them over
> >> > IMAP so they are accessible at multiple locations.
> >> >
> >> > Sebastian,
> >> >
> >> > Have you looked at ssmtp? Very light, very small and you can protect
> >> > your login password with Unix file permissions instead of leaving them
> >> > open in make.conf
> >>
> >> Could I use ssmtp to send elog mail to my email address?  I wouldn't
> >> even need a login password if this is all I use it for, right?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > ssmtp is an email sender, it knows how to talk smtp to receiving servers
> > or to relays. It doesn't receive mails.
> >
> > If the relay you use requires a username/password or ssl, it supports
> > that too.
> 
> So I need a relay somewhere along with ssmtp to get a message to an
> email address?
> 
> > [The receiving smtp server likely does not require a username/password,
> > but it is equally likely to not accept connection direct from you, hence
> > you should use your ISPs mail relay]
> 
> I likely can't use my ISP's mail relay when traveling, right?

You should be able to, if they offer smtp_auth.  Ideally over SSL/TLS so that 
you don't send username/passwd in the clear.  Most ISPs these days provide 
this service as standard.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Keith Dart]

=== On Wed, 10/28, Grant wrote: ===
> So I need a relay somewhere along with ssmtp to get a message to an
> email address?

Yes, or you can install a more featureful local HTA, such as courier or
exim, which can deliver directly to a destination MTA.
 
> I likely can't use my ISP's mail relay when traveling, right?

Depends on the ISP, but if your ISP provides an authenticating SMTP
server then you can probably use it while traveling. 




-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith@dartworks.biz>
=======================

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Albert Hopkins]

On Wed, 2009-10-28 at 09:36 -0700, Grant wrote:
> I'd like to receive ELOG messages in my inbox, but I'm hesitant to
> leave my mail server's user:passwd in plain text in /etc/make.conf.
> Do there exist public mail servers where I can send messages like this
> to be delivered?  I guess that's called an open replay?  If I use my
> ISP's mail server, should it still work when on a different ISP?
> 
> - Grant
> 

One way you can do this is to use ssmtp.  The config file is normally
not world-readable and it also has the advantage that it can talk to
your SMTP server via SSL/TLS.  If you also have a mail service that
supports aliases, you can also have it sent to an alias address and have
it filtered/delivered based on the alias (for e.g. on my systems portage
sends all its emails to portage@marduk.<domainname>.org.

A second alternative is to have ELOG send to a program and have that
program in charge of delivering the message (via SMTP or whatever). You
can make this program store the program and have it only
readable/executable by root (or whoever portage runs as).

Hope this helps,
-a

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 28 October 2009 23:22:44 Grant wrote:
> > If the relay you use requires a username/password or ssl, it supports
> > that too.
> 
> So I need a relay somewhere along with ssmtp to get a message to an
> email address?
> 
> > [The receiving smtp server likely does not require a username/password,
> > but it is equally likely to not accept connection direct from you, hence
> > you should use your ISPs mail relay]
> 
> I likely can't use my ISP's mail relay when traveling, right?

The answer to both is "it depends"

Mail admins configure their systems as they see fit. If the receiving server 
accepts your mail, all is fine. If not, you have to relay through a server 
they will accept mail from.

While travelling, you will encounter three possibilities:

1. The relay is open. This is bad because it is useful for spam. Few 
knowledgeable admins do this.

2. (The usual case). Your ISP only accepts relay mail from their own IP 
address range. While travelling this is unlikely to work.

3. Your ISP implements authentication on the relay. So you can use it as a 
relay as long as you supply a username/password to prove you are a legit user.

Another option is if the ISP gives you a vpn facility to log onto their 
network. This is generally expensive.

A final option is to use gmail.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Stroller]

On 28 Oct 2009, at 16:36, Grant wrote:
> ... I'm hesitant to leave my mail server's user:passwd in plain text  
> in /etc/make.conf.

The question that springs to mind is WHY are you hesitant?

If you don't want your user:pass stored ANYWHERE on the system then  
this rules out SSMTP to your ISP, too.

But I can really see why you might be so, especially in the case of a  
laptop. In that case, you might have it relay via a desktop or server  
at your home, and use the 192.168.x.y or whatever private address to  
specify this. I'm not sure how SSMTP copes with failure attempts and  
retries, but if you configured Postfix with "relayhost = 192.168.x.y"  
then it would just sit in the queue until you arrived home and it was  
able to send.

Alternatively, just open another free Gmail or Yahoo account and use  
these credentials for the sending of these admin emails. Typically you  
need to log in periodically to keep these accounts active, but I have  
fetchmail on my IMAP server checking every 5 minutes - as a  
consequence I have a number of accounts which I haven't actively used  
in years, but which are still working.

Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Re: public mail server for ELOG?

[Harry Putnam]

Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> writes:

[...]

>
> So I need a relay somewhere along with ssmtp to get a message to an
> email address?

Yes, and I know of at least one that will work for you.

If you have a newsguy mail account, newsguy's smtp servers will allow
you to connect regardless of your laptops' outward IP. (unless it is a
blackballed Domain or something)

Don't now if its worth it to you to pay for a newsguy mail account but
I think that would work.  It has for me in the past.

I recommend using sendmail not ssmtp.  Sendmail is better documented
than any of the others... well at least ones I have fiddled with.

I suppose ssmtp is all you need but why not use the real McCoy?  Its
easy enough to setup.  And in fact setting up sendmail to `masquerade'
your IP as the domain of your mail account is easy enough, and that
alone may get what you want to work.

So you would setup sendmail to use your mail accounts smtp server as
what is called the `SMART_HOST', and to masquerade your domain as well
as the all important `Envelope'  (The real sender of mail info)

The gotcha here is that any of the methods offered will almost
certainly require a username and passwd to connect to the smtp
server. 

In the case of sendmail it would be in a root owned file in /etc/mail
that I believe can be set chmod 600.  I'll try it and let you know if
you are interested.

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Joshua Murphy]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> > That kind of delivery limits the access to this mails to the local
>>> >> > maschine. If I want to read local I don't need mails, I could just
>>> >> > read the logfiles from portage in /var/log/
>>> >> >
>>> >> > But I am aware that solving this problem is nothing that portage has
>>> >> > to do, as it is no problem with portage at all.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > My mail was just to show that not everyone has a local mailserver
>>> >> > running on his maschine.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Greetings
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Sebastian
>>> >>
>>> >> then let it store everything as elog and read that with elogv.
>>> >>
>>> >> mail is just an additional bonus feature.
>>> >
>>> > His initial mail said that he would like a copy of elogs to go to his
>>> > inbox at his ISP. Later mails imply he might want to read them over IMAP
>>> > so they are accessible at multiple locations.
>>> >
>>> > Sebastian,
>>> >
>>> > Have you looked at ssmtp? Very light, very small and you can protect your
>>> > login password with Unix file permissions instead of leaving them open in
>>> > make.conf
>>>
>>> Could I use ssmtp to send elog mail to my email address?  I wouldn't
>>> even need a login password if this is all I use it for, right?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> ssmtp is an email sender, it knows how to talk smtp to receiving servers or to
>> relays. It doesn't receive mails.
>>
>> If the relay you use requires a username/password or ssl, it supports that
>> too.
>
> So I need a relay somewhere along with ssmtp to get a message to an
> email address?
>
>> [The receiving smtp server likely does not require a username/password, but it
>> is equally likely to not accept connection direct from you, hence you should
>> use your ISPs mail relay]
>
> I likely can't use my ISP's mail relay when traveling, right?
>
> - Grant

Ok, now I'm left with a bit of curiosity. You've implied here a couple
machines, one that sits at home where you may or may not be, likely a
desktop? And another that goes with you traveling, likely a laptop.
Now, a desktop at home can use your ISP's mail relay at all times, so
long as your internet connection through your ISP is online and
working, making elog mails from it accessible in your mailbox. The
laptop depends on how your ISP's mail relay is configured, but I'm
curious if you meant to imply you needed to send the elog information
from the system that was traveling with you or not. If you do, I
recommend a Gmail account, as they provide an authenticated-with-TLS
mail relay.

That said... and those things asked... gmail and ssmtp play very well
together in my experience (gotta love anecdotal evidence).
http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/HOWTO_Gmail_and_sSMTP

-- 
Poison [BLX]
Joshua M. Murphy

Re: [gentoo-user] public mail server for ELOG?

[Albert Hopkins]

On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 01:48 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 2. (The usual case). Your ISP only accepts relay mail from their own
> IP 
> address range. While travelling this is unlikely to work.
> 

To be honest, I pay for my email and almost forgot about ISP emails.
Most people I know use Yahoo or Gmail or something-other-than-ISP for
email and it escaped me that that would even be a problem.