[gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess

[gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess

[alain.didierjean]

Definitly, an update shouldn't break an existing working configuration! This
happens these days only too often with the Xorg + hal mess.
I happen to use linux as a working tool and 3 days without being able to launch
a working X is a source of problems! This is the second time. As for hal config,
the author should remember that ol'saying:KISS for Keep It Simple, Stupid.
Now, with or without /etc/X11/xorg.conf, my machine (amd64), updated to
libxcb-1.4, xorg-1.6 and hal last version launches X all right, only mouse and
keyboard are not working !
A line in /var/log/Xorg.0.log says:
(WW) AllowEmptyInput is on, devices using drivers 'kbd', 'mouse' or 'vmmouse'
will be disabled.
Where is that b..... AllowEmptyOption  ? certainly not in xorg.conf.
How do I get back some input on X screen ?
I also get (with xorg.conf)
(EE) Failed to load module "type1" (module doesn't exist, 0)
(EE) Failed to load module "evdev" (module doesn't exist, 0)
Please help before I turn crazy (it might be too late)

Re: [gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:35:44 +0200, alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:

> Where is that b..... AllowEmptyOption  ? certainly not in xorg.conf.

An option not appearing in xorg.cong doesn't mean it is not in use, only
that the default is used. Try man xorg.conf.

> (EE) Failed to load module "evdev" (module doesn't exist, 0)

Do you have evdev in INPUT_DEVICES?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

In plumbing, a straight flush is better than a full house.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess

[Florian Philipp]

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alain.didierjean@free.fr schrieb:
> Definitly, an update shouldn't break an existing working configuration! This
> happens these days only too often with the Xorg + hal mess.
> I happen to use linux as a working tool and 3 days without being able to launch
> a working X is a source of problems! This is the second time. As for hal config,
> the author should remember that ol'saying:KISS for Keep It Simple, Stupid.
> Now, with or without /etc/X11/xorg.conf, my machine (amd64), updated to
> libxcb-1.4, xorg-1.6 and hal last version launches X all right, only mouse and
> keyboard are not working !
> A line in /var/log/Xorg.0.log says:
> (WW) AllowEmptyInput is on, devices using drivers 'kbd', 'mouse' or 'vmmouse'
> will be disabled.
> Where is that b..... AllowEmptyOption  ? certainly not in xorg.conf.
> How do I get back some input on X screen ?
> I also get (with xorg.conf)
> (EE) Failed to load module "type1" (module doesn't exist, 0)
> (EE) Failed to load module "evdev" (module doesn't exist, 0)
> Please help before I turn crazy (it might be too late)
> 

With 'launches X' do you mean your desktop environment (login -> startx)
or xdm/kdm/gdm?

In any case, try to add

Option         "AllowEmptyInput" "false"

to your xorg.conf Section "ServerLayout"

However, for me this has tripled any key press and also messed up some
other things.

You (and anyone else, actually) might also want to add

Option      "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"

to the Section "InputDevice" of your keyboard. This will reenable
Ctrl+Alt+Backspace for killing X.

For me, X started to work again after removing ~/.Xauthority.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess

[Kevin O'Gorman]

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On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Florian Philipp <
lists@f_philipp.fastmail.net> wrote:

> alain.didierjean@free.fr schrieb:
> > Definitly, an update shouldn't break an existing working configuration!
> This
> > happens these days only too often with the Xorg + hal mess.
> > I happen to use linux as a working tool and 3 days without being able to
> launch
> > a working X is a source of problems! This is the second time. As for hal
> config,
> > the author should remember that ol'saying:KISS for Keep It Simple,
> Stupid.
> > Now, with or without /etc/X11/xorg.conf, my machine (amd64), updated to
> > libxcb-1.4, xorg-1.6 and hal last version launches X all right, only
> mouse and
> > keyboard are not working !
> > A line in /var/log/Xorg.0.log says:
> > (WW) AllowEmptyInput is on, devices using drivers 'kbd', 'mouse' or
> 'vmmouse'
> > will be disabled.
> > Where is that b..... AllowEmptyOption  ? certainly not in xorg.conf.
> > How do I get back some input on X screen ?
> > I also get (with xorg.conf)
> > (EE) Failed to load module "type1" (module doesn't exist, 0)
> > (EE) Failed to load module "evdev" (module doesn't exist, 0)
> > Please help before I turn crazy (it might be too late)
> >
>
> With 'launches X' do you mean your desktop environment (login -> startx)
> or xdm/kdm/gdm?
>
> In any case, try to add
>
> Option         "AllowEmptyInput" "false"
>
> to your xorg.conf Section "ServerLayout"
>
> However, for me this has tripled any key press and also messed up some
> other things.
>
> You (and anyone else, actually) might also want to add
>
> Option      "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>
> to the Section "InputDevice" of your keyboard. This will reenable
> Ctrl+Alt+Backspace for killing X.
>
>
This is interesting, and I'd like to try it, but my xorg.conf does not have
an "InputDevice" section, or anything specific about keyboards or mice.

How should I add this safely?

++ kevin


> For me, X started to work again after removing ~/.Xauthority.
>
>


-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

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Re: [gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess

[Florian Philipp]

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Kevin O'Gorman schrieb:
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Florian Philipp
> <lists@f_philipp.fastmail.net <mailto:lists@f_philipp.fastmail.net>> wrote:
> 
>     alain.didierjean@free.fr <mailto:alain.didierjean@free.fr> schrieb:
>     > Definitly, an update shouldn't break an existing working
>     configuration! This
>     > happens these days only too often with the Xorg + hal mess.
>     > I happen to use linux as a working tool and 3 days without being
>     able to launch
>     > a working X is a source of problems! This is the second time. As
>     for hal config,
>     > the author should remember that ol'saying:KISS for Keep It Simple,
>     Stupid.
>     > Now, with or without /etc/X11/xorg.conf, my machine (amd64),
>     updated to
>     > libxcb-1.4, xorg-1.6 and hal last version launches X all right,
>     only mouse and
>     > keyboard are not working !
>     > A line in /var/log/Xorg.0.log says:
>     > (WW) AllowEmptyInput is on, devices using drivers 'kbd', 'mouse'
>     or 'vmmouse'
>     > will be disabled.
>     > Where is that b..... AllowEmptyOption  ? certainly not in xorg.conf.
>     > How do I get back some input on X screen ?
>     > I also get (with xorg.conf)
>     > (EE) Failed to load module "type1" (module doesn't exist, 0)
>     > (EE) Failed to load module "evdev" (module doesn't exist, 0)
>     > Please help before I turn crazy (it might be too late)
>     >
> 
>     With 'launches X' do you mean your desktop environment (login -> startx)
>     or xdm/kdm/gdm?
> 
>     In any case, try to add
> 
>     Option         "AllowEmptyInput" "false"
> 
>     to your xorg.conf Section "ServerLayout"
> 
>     However, for me this has tripled any key press and also messed up some
>     other things.
> 
>     You (and anyone else, actually) might also want to add
> 
>     Option      "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> 
>     to the Section "InputDevice" of your keyboard. This will reenable
>     Ctrl+Alt+Backspace for killing X.
> 
> 
> This is interesting, and I'd like to try it, but my xorg.conf does not
> have an "InputDevice" section, or anything specific about keyboards or mice.
> 
> How should I add this safely?
> 

Most likely your setup does not rely on an xorg.conf. In that case you
should avoid adding anything to it. Look at this guide for various ways
to re-enable that feature:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.6-upgrade-guide.xml

BTW: There is a news item (eselect news) about this but depending on
your system config and when you have synced your portage tree the last
time, that item might not have been announced to you.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[alain.didierjean]

Selon Florian Philipp <lists@f_philipp.fastmail.net>:

> alain.didierjean@free.fr schrieb:
> > Definitly, an update shouldn't break an existing working configuration!
> This
> > happens these days only too often with the Xorg + hal mess.
> > I happen to use linux as a working tool and 3 days without being able to
> launch
> > a working X is a source of problems! This is the second time. As for hal
> config,
> > the author should remember that ol'saying:KISS for Keep It Simple, Stupid.
> > Now, with or without /etc/X11/xorg.conf, my machine (amd64), updated to
> > libxcb-1.4, xorg-1.6 and hal last version launches X all right, only mouse
> and
> > keyboard are not working !
> > A line in /var/log/Xorg.0.log says:
> > (WW) AllowEmptyInput is on, devices using drivers 'kbd', 'mouse' or
> 'vmmouse'
> > will be disabled.
> > Where is that b..... AllowEmptyOption  ? certainly not in xorg.conf.
> > How do I get back some input on X screen ?
> > I also get (with xorg.conf)
> > (EE) Failed to load module "type1" (module doesn't exist, 0)
> > (EE) Failed to load module "evdev" (module doesn't exist, 0)
> > Please help before I turn crazy (it might be too late)
> >
>
> With 'launches X' do you mean your desktop environment (login -> startx)
> or xdm/kdm/gdm?
both
>

Thanks all for the help. Finally the problem was solved by re-compiling all X11
drivers used, and most notably xf86-input-keyboard & xf86-input-mouse.
I still think that any package update that breaks a working config without any
specific doc IS A BUG. That just happened for the scond time.

Re: [gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Dale]

alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
>
> Thanks all for the help. Finally the problem was solved by re-compiling all X11
> drivers used, and most notably xf86-input-keyboard & xf86-input-mouse.
> I still think that any package update that breaks a working config without any
> specific doc IS A BUG. That just happened for the scond time.
>
>
>   

Well, at least you can get evdev to working.  I haven't had any luck yet
although I need to try again since xorg-server is about to update here too.

I also know the SysReq key trick now.  It can take you back to a console.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 07 October 2009 06:34:06 alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
> Thanks all for the help. Finally the problem was solved by re-compiling all
>  X11 drivers used, and most notably xf86-input-keyboard & xf86-input-mouse.
>  I still think that any package update that breaks a working config without
>  any specific doc IS A BUG. That just happened for the scond time.
> 

Any human operator who does a large upgrade such as this and does not read the 
posted notice about it has a bug in his head. If you had fixed that bug, the 
one on your computer would have been solved.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Harry Putnam]

Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> writes:

> I also know the SysReq key trick now.  It can take you back to a console.

I'll bite ... what is it?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Alex Schuster]

Harry Putnam writes:

> Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> writes:
> > I also know the SysReq key trick now.  It can take you back to a
> > console.
>
> I'll bite ... what is it?

Some magic commands involving the SysRq key allow actions even if the system 
hangs and does not respond. Alt-SysRq-R for example resets the keyboard and 
allows one to switch back to a text console then. Works only once for me, 
though.
Others allow to kill processes, sync the filesystem, and such. The 
combination Alt-SysRq-R-E-I-S-U-B reboots a hanging PC without file system 
corruption. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[bn]

Alan McKinnon ha scritto:
> On Wednesday 07 October 2009 06:34:06 alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
>> Thanks all for the help. Finally the problem was solved by re-compiling all
>>  X11 drivers used, and most notably xf86-input-keyboard & xf86-input-mouse.
>>  I still think that any package update that breaks a working config without
>>  any specific doc IS A BUG. That just happened for the scond time.
>>
> 
> Any human operator who does a large upgrade such as this and does not read the 
> posted notice about it has a bug in his head. If you had fixed that bug, the 
> one on your computer would have been solved.
> 

What do you mean by "posted notice"? the news?
(I just ask because I also have a long backlog of updates still to do,
because I cannot afford to break my system now, and therefore...)

thanks!

Re: [gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 07 October 2009 19:07:36 bn wrote:
> Alan McKinnon ha scritto:
> > On Wednesday 07 October 2009 06:34:06 alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
> >> Thanks all for the help. Finally the problem was solved by re-compiling
> >> all X11 drivers used, and most notably xf86-input-keyboard &
> >> xf86-input-mouse. I still think that any package update that breaks a
> >> working config without any specific doc IS A BUG. That just happened for
> >> the scond time.
> >
> > Any human operator who does a large upgrade such as this and does not
> > read the posted notice about it has a bug in his head. If you had fixed
> > that bug, the one on your computer would have been solved.
> 
> What do you mean by "posted notice"? the news?

No, the elog

It's there for a reason - so you can read it and follow the advice it gives.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Dale]

Alex Schuster wrote:
> Harry Putnam writes:
>
>   
>> Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> writes:
>>     
>>> I also know the SysReq key trick now.  It can take you back to a
>>> console.
>>>       
>> I'll bite ... what is it?
>>     
>
> Some magic commands involving the SysRq key allow actions even if the system 
> hangs and does not respond. Alt-SysRq-R for example resets the keyboard and 
> allows one to switch back to a text console then. Works only once for me, 
> though.
> Others allow to kill processes, sync the filesystem, and such. The 
> combination Alt-SysRq-R-E-I-S-U-B reboots a hanging PC without file system 
> corruption. 
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key
>
> 	Wonko
>
>
>   

That's the one.  I think its either the second or third key that makes
it go back to a console.  It is nice to know about.  I have it taped to
my wall for reference.  It beats having to pull the plug without a
proper shutdown. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 18:39:45 +0200, Alex Schuster wrote:

> Others allow to kill processes, sync the filesystem, and such. The 
> combination Alt-SysRq-R-E-I-S-U-B reboots a hanging PC without file
> system corruption. 

Usually! Sometimes a system can be locked up to badly that there's not
enough resources left to sync the filesystems. Most of the time though
Alt-SysRq-Reboot-Even-If-System-Utterly-Broken works.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Just when you got it all figured out:  An UPGRADE!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Mark Knecht]

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 18:39:45 +0200, Alex Schuster wrote:
>
>> Others allow to kill processes, sync the filesystem, and such. The
>> combination Alt-SysRq-R-E-I-S-U-B reboots a hanging PC without file
>> system corruption.
>
> Usually! Sometimes a system can be locked up to badly that there's not
> enough resources left to sync the filesystems. Most of the time though
> Alt-SysRq-Reboot-Even-If-System-Utterly-Broken works.
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick

I've seen you guys talk about this and I've never had to use it. I'm
curious about the actual key strokes. Is it

Alt-SysRq and then REISUB

or

Alt-SysRq followed by Atl-R, Atl-E, etc.. ?

I assume the first but it would be nice to know if I ever have to use it.

Thanks,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Alex Schuster]

Mark Knecht writes:

> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 18:39:45 +0200, Alex Schuster wrote:
> >> Others allow to kill processes, sync the filesystem, and such. The
> >> combination Alt-SysRq-R-E-I-S-U-B reboots a hanging PC without file
> >> system corruption.
> >
> > Usually! Sometimes a system can be locked up to badly that there's not
> > enough resources left to sync the filesystems. Most of the time though
> > Alt-SysRq-Reboot-Even-If-System-Utterly-Broken works.

Right, I was a little too enthusiastic here.

> I've seen you guys talk about this and I've never had to use it. 

Oh. I used it very often.

> I'm curious about the actual key strokes. Is it
>
> Alt-SysRq and then REISUB
>
> or
>
> Alt-SysRq followed by Atl-R, Atl-E, etc.. ?

It's Alt-SysRq-R, Alt-SysRq-E, and so on. With little pauses between, to 
give the action some time to work. Like, wait a little with the U (Unmount) 
after the S (Sync). Or after the E (kill all processes) in order to give the 
processes some time to save data, so the I (kill -9 all processes) does not 
interrupt this.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Mark Knecht]

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> wrote:
> Mark Knecht writes:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>> > On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 18:39:45 +0200, Alex Schuster wrote:
>> >> Others allow to kill processes, sync the filesystem, and such. The
>> >> combination Alt-SysRq-R-E-I-S-U-B reboots a hanging PC without file
>> >> system corruption.
>> >
>> > Usually! Sometimes a system can be locked up to badly that there's not
>> > enough resources left to sync the filesystems. Most of the time though
>> > Alt-SysRq-Reboot-Even-If-System-Utterly-Broken works.
>
> Right, I was a little too enthusiastic here.
>
>> I've seen you guys talk about this and I've never had to use it.
>
> Oh. I used it very often.
>
>> I'm curious about the actual key strokes. Is it
>>
>> Alt-SysRq and then REISUB
>>
>> or
>>
>> Alt-SysRq followed by Atl-R, Atl-E, etc.. ?
>
> It's Alt-SysRq-R, Alt-SysRq-E, and so on. With little pauses between, to
> give the action some time to work. Like, wait a little with the U (Unmount)
> after the S (Sync). Or after the E (kill all processes) in order to give the
> processes some time to save data, so the I (kill -9 all processes) does not
> interrupt this.
>
>        Wonko
>
>

thanks Wonko!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Alex Schuster]

Dale writes:

> Alex Schuster wrote:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key

> That's the one.  I think its either the second or third key that makes
> it go back to a console.  It is nice to know about.  I have it taped to
> my wall for reference.  It beats having to pull the plug without a
> proper shutdown.

If only X hangs, you can go back to the console with Alt-SysRq-R, followed 
by Ctrl-Alt-Fn. If you just want to kill X, try Alt-SysRq-K. If the test 
mode does not work then, try the 'textmode' command (typing blindly in a 
text console), that may restore it.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:09:00 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:

> I've seen you guys talk about this and I've never had to use it. I'm
> curious about the actual key strokes. Is it
> 
> Alt-SysRq and then REISUB
> 
> or
> 
> Alt-SysRq followed by Atl-R, Atl-E, etc.. ?

Hold down Alt-SysRq while pressing REISUB in sequence. Pause between
each to let them do their thing, especially is the machine is heavily
loaded. If you can get back to the first VC, it will output a line as
each keystroke's task completes, so you can be sure your filesystems are
synced and unmounted before rebooting.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Smoking Can Damage Your Health....Unless us Non-Smokers do it first!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[alain.didierjean]

Selon Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>:

> On Wednesday 07 October 2009 06:34:06 alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
> > Thanks all for the help. Finally the problem was solved by re-compiling all
> >  X11 drivers used, and most notably xf86-input-keyboard & xf86-input-mouse.
> >  I still think that any package update that breaks a working config without
> >  any specific doc IS A BUG. That just happened for the scond time.
> >
>
> Any human operator who does a large upgrade such as this and does not read
> the
> posted notice about it has a bug in his head. If you had fixed that bug, the
> one on your computer would have been solved.
>

Thanks for this useful answer, Mr. alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com. I
certainly have a bug in my head, but I wouldn't like to have to smell what's in
yours.
I have the weird habit to trust portage, as it works great 99.9% of the time (is
that a bug ?). I usually don't read elogs as I usually don't need it.
Xorg-1.6 needs a rebuilt of all used X11 drivers, up-to-date or not. Not
including this re-emerging in the ebuilt leads to a working config being broken.
I call that a BUG, specifically when it happens for the second time.
Have a sweet day, Mr alan dot mckinnon.

--
~adj~

Re: [gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 08 October 2009 11:19:44 alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
> Selon Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>:
> > On Wednesday 07 October 2009 06:34:06 alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
> > > Thanks all for the help. Finally the problem was solved by re-compiling
> > > all X11 drivers used, and most notably xf86-input-keyboard &
> > > xf86-input-mouse. I still think that any package update that breaks a
> > > working config without any specific doc IS A BUG. That just happened
> > > for the scond time.
> >
> > Any human operator who does a large upgrade such as this and does not
> > read the
> > posted notice about it has a bug in his head. If you had fixed that bug,
> > the one on your computer would have been solved.
> 
> Thanks for this useful answer, Mr. alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com. I
> certainly have a bug in my head, but I wouldn't like to have to smell
>  what's in yours.
> I have the weird habit to trust portage, as it works great 99.9% of the
>  time (is that a bug ?). I usually don't read elogs as I usually don't need
>  it. Xorg-1.6 needs a rebuilt of all used X11 drivers, up-to-date or not.
>  Not including this re-emerging in the ebuilt leads to a working config
>  being broken. I call that a BUG, specifically when it happens for the
>  second time. Have a sweet day, Mr alan dot mckinnon.

tsk, tsk, touchy today hey?

This is Gentoo. We assume you know what you're doing and can deal with stuff 
that arises. If you don't like what the devs gave you, become a dev yourself 
and fix it.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 11:19:44 +0200, alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:

> I have the weird habit to trust portage, as it works great 99.9% of the
> time (is that a bug ?). I usually don't read elogs as I usually don't
> need it.

If you trust portage you should read and follow the the advice it gives
you. Ignoring it is a strange display of trust.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten per cent of its
capacity ... the rest is overhead for the operating system.

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[gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Harry Putnam]

Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> writes:

>> I'm curious about the actual key strokes. Is it
>>
>> Alt-SysRq and then REISUB

And what is `SysRq' a reference to on a keyboard?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> writes:
>
>>> I'm curious about the actual key strokes. Is it
>>>
>>> Alt-SysRq and then REISUB
>
> And what is `SysRq' a reference to on a keyboard?
>
>
>

The System Request key. Generally located somewhere in the upper
right. It moves around though.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Paul Hartman]

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> writes:
>
>>> I'm curious about the actual key strokes. Is it
>>>
>>> Alt-SysRq and then REISUB
>
> And what is `SysRq' a reference to on a keyboard?

On US keyboards SysRq is usually on the Print Screen key. (like Break
is on the Pause key)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 10:47:03 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:

> The System Request key. Generally located somewhere in the upper
> right.

Also marked PrtScn.

> It moves around though.

I've had this keyboard a few years and it's always stayed in exactly the
same place. Maybe the other keys stop it moving :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I'm warning you! One step closer and I'll drop carrier!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 10:47:03 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>> The System Request key. Generally located somewhere in the upper
>> right.
>
> Also marked PrtScn.
>
>> It moves around though.
>
> I've had this keyboard a few years and it's always stayed in exactly the
> same place. Maybe the other keys stop it moving :)
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick
>
> I'm warning you! One step closer and I'll drop carrier!
>

Even though I'm old and decrepit (or maybe because...) I listen to a
lot of Porcupine Tree. For me the keys keep moving right along with
that spinning black and white vortex thing. Is that not really here?

On my desktop it's associated with Print Screen
On my laptop it's associated with delete

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 08 October 2009 20:30:30 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 10:47:03 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
> > The System Request key. Generally located somewhere in the upper
> > right.
> 
> Also marked PrtScn.
> 
> > It moves around though.
> 
> I've had this keyboard a few years and it's always stayed in exactly the
> same place. Maybe the other keys stop it moving :)
> 

Nope, you're just doing it wrong. You're forgetting to do the bit where you 
pop the key lids off to wash them then forget where to put them back 

:-)

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 21:17:14 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > I've had this keyboard a few years and it's always stayed in exactly
> > the same place. Maybe the other keys stop it moving :)
 
> Nope, you're just doing it wrong. You're forgetting to do the bit where
> you pop the key lids off to wash them then forget where to put them
> back 

That explains it, I just put the whole keyboard in the dishwasher.

That may sound stupid, but it's not as bad as using Cc: on mailing list
replies :P


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"Open the disk drive door, Hal."

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[daid kahl]

>> Nope, you're just doing it wrong. You're forgetting to do the bit where
>> you pop the key lids off to wash them then forget where to put them
>> back
>
> That explains it, I just put the whole keyboard in the dishwasher.
>
> That may sound stupid, but it's not as bad as using Cc: on mailing list
> replies :P

That's okay.  I washed my passport once.

...daid

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Dale]

Alex Schuster wrote:
> Dale writes:
>
>   
>> Alex Schuster wrote:
>>     
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key
>>>       
>
>   
>> That's the one.  I think its either the second or third key that makes
>> it go back to a console.  It is nice to know about.  I have it taped to
>> my wall for reference.  It beats having to pull the plug without a
>> proper shutdown.
>>     
>
> If only X hangs, you can go back to the console with Alt-SysRq-R, followed 
> by Ctrl-Alt-Fn. If you just want to kill X, try Alt-SysRq-K. If the test 
> mode does not work then, try the 'textmode' command (typing blindly in a 
> text console), that may restore it.
>
> 	Wonko
>
>
>   

Well, I upgraded to xorg-server-1.6 and guess what, it was a bust,
AGAIN.  I moved xorg.conf, re-emerged the xf86-input-* stuff and it did
do a little better.  I bumped the mouse and the pointer moved, then it
locked up and my fans started spinning up so I assume the CPU was going
nuts.  I had to use the Aly SysReq keys to get back to a console.  So, I
added -hal to my package.use file and re-emerged xorg-server and now it
works fine. 

I hate to say it this way, but hal just plain sucks.  I may play with it
some later but I'm getting sick of hal big time.  It's starting to
really leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:05:16 +0900, daid kahl wrote:

> That's okay.  I washed my passport once.

Did your photo look any better afterwards? ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

If you consult enough experts, you can confirm any opinion.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[pk]

Dale wrote:

> I hate to say it this way, but hal just plain sucks.  I may play with it
> some later but I'm getting sick of hal big time.  It's starting to
> really leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Then you might like this:
http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2009/Notes#head-75cccc4e4968dd043dcf2166dff61afd7d0d06c5

I know I do... :-)

Best regards

Peter K

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Dale]

pk wrote:
> Dale wrote:
>
>   
>> I hate to say it this way, but hal just plain sucks.  I may play with it
>> some later but I'm getting sick of hal big time.  It's starting to
>> really leave a bad taste in my mouth.
>>     
>
> Then you might like this:
> http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2009/Notes#head-75cccc4e4968dd043dcf2166dff61afd7d0d06c5
>
> I know I do... :-)
>
> Best regards
>
> Peter K
>
>
>   

Well, I hope whatever replaces hal  is easier to configure.  Then again,
I can't really imagine it being any harder tho.  I haven't played with
it any since my last post.  I just don't feel like getting ticked off
right now.  Trying to play with hal tends to do that pretty quick. 

Right now, I'm in the new KDE 4.  Trying to let it grow on me a little. 
It is getting better tho.  ;-)  I can tell they are working on it and
adding new stuff and fixing old stuff too.  I'm still trying to figure
out how to get a root Konsole tho.  All I see is a user one.  Oh well. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> pk wrote:
>> Dale wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I hate to say it this way, but hal just plain sucks.  I may play with it
>>> some later but I'm getting sick of hal big time.  It's starting to
>>> really leave a bad taste in my mouth.
>>>
>>
>> Then you might like this:
>> http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2009/Notes#head-75cccc4e4968dd043dcf2166dff61afd7d0d06c5
>>
>> I know I do... :-)
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Peter K
>>
>>
>>
>
> Well, I hope whatever replaces hal  is easier to configure.  Then again,
> I can't really imagine it being any harder tho.  I haven't played with
> it any since my last post.  I just don't feel like getting ticked off
> right now.  Trying to play with hal tends to do that pretty quick.
>
> Right now, I'm in the new KDE 4.  Trying to let it grow on me a little.
> It is getting better tho.  ;-)  I can tell they are working on it and
> adding new stuff and fixing old stuff too.  I'm still trying to figure
> out how to get a root Konsole tho.  All I see is a user one.  Oh well.

Alt-F2
type "kdesu konsole" into the box
press enter

:)

I believe the root konsole shortcut was removed from KDE4 because
running entire sessions as root is discouraged in general... you can
always add it to the menu if you miss it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Alex Schuster]

Dale writes:

> Well, I upgraded to xorg-server-1.6 and guess what, it was a bust,
> AGAIN.  I moved xorg.conf, re-emerged the xf86-input-* stuff and it did
> do a little better.  I bumped the mouse and the pointer moved, then it
> locked up and my fans started spinning up so I assume the CPU was going
> nuts.  I had to use the Aly SysReq keys to get back to a console.  So,
> I added -hal to my package.use file and re-emerged xorg-server and now
> it works fine.
>
> I hate to say it this way, but hal just plain sucks.  I may play with
> it some later but I'm getting sick of hal big time.  It's starting to
> really leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I feel with you :)  I recently tried xorg-server-1.6, too, with no 
success.

At the moment I am away for two days from my machine, and so I am doing 
the BIG update now. xorg-server is upgraded to 1.6.3.901-r2, I followed 
the upgrade guide and also did the libxcb stuff. I removed then kdeprefix 
use flag, unmerged all of kde-4.2, updated world, depcleaned. Now emerge 
@kde-4.3 is running.
And then... we will see. Come on, Gentoo, surprise me, and give me a 
running KDE 4.3 desktop with X and OpenGL and mouse and keyboard. That 
would be great.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Dale]

Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> pk wrote:
>>     
>>> Dale wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I hate to say it this way, but hal just plain sucks.  I may play with it
>>>> some later but I'm getting sick of hal big time.  It's starting to
>>>> really leave a bad taste in my mouth.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> Then you might like this:
>>> http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2009/Notes#head-75cccc4e4968dd043dcf2166dff61afd7d0d06c5
>>>
>>> I know I do... :-)
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> Peter K
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> Well, I hope whatever replaces hal  is easier to configure.  Then again,
>> I can't really imagine it being any harder tho.  I haven't played with
>> it any since my last post.  I just don't feel like getting ticked off
>> right now.  Trying to play with hal tends to do that pretty quick.
>>
>> Right now, I'm in the new KDE 4.  Trying to let it grow on me a little.
>> It is getting better tho.  ;-)  I can tell they are working on it and
>> adding new stuff and fixing old stuff too.  I'm still trying to figure
>> out how to get a root Konsole tho.  All I see is a user one.  Oh well.
>>     
>
> Alt-F2
> type "kdesu konsole" into the box
> press enter
>
> :)
>
> I believe the root konsole shortcut was removed from KDE4 because
> running entire sessions as root is discouraged in general... you can
> always add it to the menu if you miss it.
>
>
>   

I'll give that a try.  I tend to restore a saved session anyway.  uhhhh,
I couldn't find the option to edit the menu like in KDE 3.  It used to
be in Applications then Settings.  The updating tool is there but not
the editing one. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Paul Hartman wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> pk wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dale wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I hate to say it this way, but hal just plain sucks.  I may play with it
>>>>> some later but I'm getting sick of hal big time.  It's starting to
>>>>> really leave a bad taste in my mouth.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Then you might like this:
>>>> http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2009/Notes#head-75cccc4e4968dd043dcf2166dff61afd7d0d06c5
>>>>
>>>> I know I do... :-)
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>>
>>>> Peter K
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Well, I hope whatever replaces hal  is easier to configure.  Then again,
>>> I can't really imagine it being any harder tho.  I haven't played with
>>> it any since my last post.  I just don't feel like getting ticked off
>>> right now.  Trying to play with hal tends to do that pretty quick.
>>>
>>> Right now, I'm in the new KDE 4.  Trying to let it grow on me a little.
>>> It is getting better tho.  ;-)  I can tell they are working on it and
>>> adding new stuff and fixing old stuff too.  I'm still trying to figure
>>> out how to get a root Konsole tho.  All I see is a user one.  Oh well.
>>>
>>
>> Alt-F2
>> type "kdesu konsole" into the box
>> press enter
>>
>> :)
>>
>> I believe the root konsole shortcut was removed from KDE4 because
>> running entire sessions as root is discouraged in general... you can
>> always add it to the menu if you miss it.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I'll give that a try.  I tend to restore a saved session anyway.  uhhhh,
> I couldn't find the option to edit the menu like in KDE 3.  It used to
> be in Applications then Settings.  The updating tool is there but not
> the editing one.
>
> Dale

It should be available by running kmenuedit (if you have KDE3 and KDE4
installed at the same time, be sure you're running the correct
version). In my KDE4-only system it is in /usr/bin/kmenuedit

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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Am Freitag, 9. Oktober 2009 schrieb Dale:

> I'll give that a try.  I tend to restore a saved session anyway.  uhhhh,
> I couldn't find the option to edit the menu like in KDE 3.  It used to
> be in Applications then Settings.  The updating tool is there but not
> the editing one.

Right-click on the k-menu icon, then select Edit menu.

-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
No user was harmed by sending this Outlook-free message.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED]

[Dale]

Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> Am Freitag, 9. Oktober 2009 schrieb Dale:
>
>   
>> I'll give that a try.  I tend to restore a saved session anyway.  uhhhh,
>> I couldn't find the option to edit the menu like in KDE 3.  It used to
>> be in Applications then Settings.  The updating tool is there but not
>> the editing one.
>>     
>
> Right-click on the k-menu icon, then select Edit menu.
>
>   

Now that is to easy.  Isn't there a harder way to do that?  LOL

Thanks. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Blank screen after Xorg update (was: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess [SOLVED])

[Alex Schuster]

I wrote:

> At the moment I am away for two days from my machine, and so I am doing
> the BIG update now. xorg-server is upgraded to 1.6.3.901-r2, I followed
> the upgrade guide and also did the libxcb stuff. I removed then kdeprefix
> use flag, unmerged all of kde-4.2, updated world, depcleaned. Now emerge
> @kde-4.3 is running.
> And then... we will see. Come on, Gentoo, surprise me, and give me a
> running KDE 4.3 desktop with X and OpenGL and mouse and keyboard. That
> would be great.

And what I got may possibly be all of that, but I cannot see it, as the 
display is just blank. I can switch back to a text console, so the keyboard 
is working. And I see no apparent error messages in the X log file. I 
attached another monitor, it is also blank. I hear it clicking as it does 
when it switches the resolution. And its information display shows the 
correct resolution. Happens with fglrx, radeonhd, radeon, vesa.

In case an anyone likes to have a look, here are Xorg log and xorg.conf. I'm 
not really sure what to do now. Downgrading would be messy and will not work 
for long, I really would like to solve this problem now.

http://wonkology.org/~wonko/tmp/Xorg.log.fglrx-2.6.28_tuxonice-r3
http://wonkology.org/~wonko/tmp/xorg.conf.fglrx

Thanks,
	Wonko

[gentoo-user] Re: Blank screen after Xorg update

[walt]

On 10/11/2009 02:30 PM, Alex Schuster wrote:
> I wrote:
> 
>> At the moment I am away for two days from my machine, and so I am doing
>> the BIG update now. xorg-server is upgraded to 1.6.3.901-r2, I followed
>> the upgrade guide and also did the libxcb stuff. I removed then kdeprefix
>> use flag, unmerged all of kde-4.2, updated world, depcleaned. Now emerge
>> @kde-4.3 is running.
>> And then... we will see. Come on, Gentoo, surprise me, and give me a
>> running KDE 4.3 desktop with X and OpenGL and mouse and keyboard. That
>> would be great.
> 
> And what I got may possibly be all of that, but I cannot see it, as the 
> display is just blank...

What I do when faced with an X problem is to type "X" at a console prompt
and see if the bare X server starts up normally, i.e. with the black-and-
white background pattern and the x-cursor.  That at least will separate
the kde bugs from the xorg bugs.

I use startx, so doing this trick is easy for me.  If you use a display
manager like xdm,kdm, etc then you'll need to disable that temporarily
so you can boot to a console prompt.

BTW, did you generate a new xorg.conf after the upgrade?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Blank screen after Xorg update

[Alex Schuster]

walt writes:

> On 10/11/2009 02:30 PM, Alex Schuster wrote:
> > I wrote:

> >> And then... we will see. Come on, Gentoo, surprise me, and give me a
> >> running KDE 4.3 desktop with X and OpenGL and mouse and keyboard. That
> >> would be great.
> >
> > And what I got may possibly be all of that, but I cannot see it, as the
> > display is just blank...
> 
> What I do when faced with an X problem is to type "X" at a console prompt
> and see if the bare X server starts up normally, i.e. with the black-and-
> white background pattern and the x-cursor.  That at least will separate
> the kde bugs from the xorg bugs.

Yeah, that's what I did.

> I use startx, so doing this trick is easy for me.  If you use a display
> manager like xdm,kdm, etc then you'll need to disable that temporarily
> so you can boot to a console prompt.

I am also not using KDM the moment, because after my last attempt with ati-
drivers, KDE4 did not start from KDM. Using startkde worked fine, though. 
Although I think that even with the display manager running, X -- :1 should 
just start a second server.

I am not sure how the KDE upgrade went, all I can say yet is that using 
kontact on that machine right now via vnc works.

> BTW, did you generate a new xorg.conf after the upgrade?

Not really. There's not too much stuff customized there, so I just kept it, 
replacing only the Driver entry with radeonhd, vesa and such. I used to 
create fresh configs with X -configure, but this stopped working long ago, X 
always crashes when I do this:

(==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Mon Oct 12 11:58:17 2009
List of video drivers:
        radeonhd
        radeon
        ati
        fglrx
        fbdev
        vesa
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@0:17:0) 
found
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@0:18:0) 
found
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@0:18:1) 
found
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@0:18:2) 
found
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@0:19:0) 
found
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@0:19:1) 
found
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@0:19:2) 
found
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@0:20:0) 
found
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@0:20:1) 
found
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@0:20:2) 
found
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@0:20:3) 
found
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@0:20:4) 
found
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@0:20:5) 
found
(WW) fglrx: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0@1:5:1) 
found

Backtrace:
0: X(xorg_backtrace+0x37) [0x8136a67]
1: X(xf86CallDriverProbe+0xe8) [0x80ada48]

Fatal server error:
Caught signal 11.  Server aborting


I also tried without an xorg.conf, but then X does not start. Turns out I 
had fbdev in my VIDEO_CARDS a while ago, and did not depclean, so xf86-
video-fbdev was still installed. Removing it, X starts, but of course I also 
get the blank screen, and no apparent errors.
http://wonkology.org/~wonko/tmp/Xorg.log.2.6.28-tuxonice-r3


Okay, what next. This is driving me nuts, I never got great performance from 
my Radeon HD 3200, but at least I always got a display finally, not a blank 
screen. And I always had some X errors I could investigate in order to solve 
the problem, but now I do not really know what to do. File a bug? Plug in a 
PCI card and see what happens then? Try a third monitor?

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Blank screen after Xorg update

[Alex Schuster]

I wrote:

> walt writes:

> > What I do when faced with an X problem is to type "X" at a console
> > prompt and see if the bare X server starts up normally, i.e. with the
> > black-and- white background pattern and the x-cursor.  That at least
> > will separate the kde bugs from the xorg bugs.
> 
> Yeah, that's what I did.

And that was the problem. I am pretty sure this just CANNOT be, but X runs 
fine if I start it via startx or KDM. I think even if the checkerboard X 
background I am used is no longer there, I should at least have seen the 
mouse, but, whatever.
Oh, when I start X with fglrx in xorg.conf then, I get a blank screen again, 
but the keyboard hangs, I have to to the Alt-SysRq-R trick to go back to a 
text console. But that is also blank, the 'textmode' does not help, and I 
have to reboot. But vesa or radeonhd seem to work, at least.


> I am not sure how the KDE upgrade went, all I can say yet is that using
> kontact on that machine right now via vnc works.

It did not work well. I cannot start any WM with KDM, after half a second 
KDM just restarts. I had this before already, but I thought it was related 
to the new ati drivers which I do not use now. XSESSION=kde-4.3 startx works 
though.

But my desktop/session is a mess. Windows have no title bar or border, the 
panel is cleared off most things, and such. I renamed ~/.kde4.2 to ~/.kde4 
before that. But then I cannot start kmail, because it wants to write into 
~/.kde4.2/share/appes/kmail/.

Should I start from scratch? Probably yes. I guess this problem comes from 
switching from +kreprefix to -kdeprefix.

	Wonko