From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 451A215815E for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2024 06:37:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7A96AE2A7E; Thu, 8 Feb 2024 06:37:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gw2.antarean.org (gw2.antarean.org [141.105.125.208]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07FA1E2A5C for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2024 06:37:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gw2.antarean.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TVnMz18GVz8scJ for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2024 06:37:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at antarean.org Received: from gw2.antarean.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (gw2.antarean.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DI-T4FNIH4pH for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2024 06:37:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailstore1.adm.antarean.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gw2.antarean.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TVnMy4v3cz8sb4 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2024 06:37:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailstore1.adm.antarean.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TVnMy45CKz17 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2024 06:37:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at antarean.org Received: from mailstore1.adm.antarean.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailstore1.adm.antarean.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XSf2RJ_Vy3hZ for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2024 06:32:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from iris.localnet (iris.adm.antarean.org [10.55.16.47]) by mailstore1.adm.antarean.org (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4TVnGB1tVjz15 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2024 06:32:18 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=antarean.org; s=default; t=1707373938; bh=OWJ8ZHE8Vmson/sBCrkOaZuYy7sI/uzS45JeBA+ZuOc=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=AFatXDgFGd37GIOzCFN1Vu6UDrq0WouN/bNX5J8Ld73v69m7cqUO01fgxiYXMWU0d qrC2t6vSl3m7Vof+Rvce9EWzqTN178iUVXg4tVC/ZefVhRR+HIxNOWeKoIrRcVhmtW KkiAoabyvgRySR2y7X9oR4lAg6q7fDT6fVYRdBtE= From: "J. Roeleveld" To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Suggestions for backup scheme? Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2024 07:32:18 +0100 Message-ID: <12379239.O9o76ZdvQC@iris> In-Reply-To: <838555ad-25d5-4c07-876a-9adcaeae4763@youngman.org.uk> References: <2327417.ElGaqSPkdT@iris> <838555ad-25d5-4c07-876a-9adcaeae4763@youngman.org.uk> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Archives-Salt: 35aa720b-d885-40ee-b247-93b46e5d0c80 X-Archives-Hash: 88cca01ea36b2196e155e26ff0341039 On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 10:59:38 PM CET Wols Lists wrote: > On 07/02/2024 11:11, J. Roeleveld wrote: > > On Tuesday, February 6, 2024 9:27:35 PM CET Wols Lists wrote: > >> On 06/02/2024 13:12, J. Roeleveld wrote: > >>>> Clearly Oracle likes this state of affairs. Either that, or they are > >>>> encumbered in some way from just GPLing the ZFS code. Since they on > >>>> paper own the code for both projects it seems crazy to me that this > >>>> situation persists. > >>> > >>> GPL is not necessarily the best license for releasing code. I've got > >>> some > >>> private projects that I could publish. But before I do that, I'd have to > >>> decide on a License. I would prefer something other than GPL. > >> > >> Okay. What do you want to achieve. Let's just lump licences into two > >> categories to start with and ask the question "Who do you want to free?" > > > > I want my code to be usable by anyone, but don't want anyone to fork it > > and > > start making money off of it without giving me a fair share. > > Okay, that instantly says you want a copyleft licence. So you're stuck > with a GPL-style licence, and if they want to include it in a commercial > closed source product, they need to come back to you and dual licence it. > > Personally, I'd go the MPL2 route, but that's my choice. It might not > suit you. But to achieve what you want, you need a copyleft, GPL-style > licence. I'll have a look at that one. > >> If that sounds weird, it's because both Copyleft and Permissive claim to > >> be free, but have completely different target audiences. Once you've > >> answered that question, it'll make choosing a licence so much easier. > >> > >> GPL gives freedom to the END USER. It's intended to protect the users of > >> your program from being held to ransom. > > > > That's not how the kernel devs handle the GPL. They use it to remove > > choice > > from the end user (me) to use what I want (ZFS). > > And it's that which I don't like about the GPL. > > No. That's Oracle's fault. The kernel devs can't include ZFS in linux, > because Oracle (or rather Sun, at the time, I believe) deliberately > *designed* the ZFS licence to be incompatible with the GPL. Maybe not included fully into the kernel, but there is nothing preventing it to be packaged with a Linux distribution. It's just the hostility from Linus Torvalds and Greg Kroah-Hartman against ZFS causing the issues. See the following post for a clear description (much better written than I can): https://eerielinux.wordpress.com/2019/01/28/zfs-and-gpl-terror-how-much-freedom-is-there-in-linux/ Especially the lkml thread linked from there: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20190110182413.GA6932@kroah.com/ > After all, there's nothing stopping *you* from combining Linux and ZFS, > it's just that somebody else can't do that for you, and then give you > the resulting binary. Linux (kernel) and ZFS can't be merged. Fine. But, Linux (the OS, as in, kernel + userspace) and ZFS can be merged legally. > At the end of the day, if someone wants to be an arsehole, there's not a > lot you can do to stop them, and with ZFS that honour apparently goes to > Sun. See what I put above. -- Joost