[gentoo-user] UPS recommendation

[gentoo-user] UPS recommendation

[maxim wexler]

Hi group,

This summer's electrical storms are coming and I can count on my PC stopping dead several times over the season.

I did a search for UPS units and was overwhelmed by the diversity out there.

What can the group recommend?

I only need something that will give me about a minute's head start to safely turn of the box.

Maxim




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Re: [gentoo-user] UPS recommendation

[Michael Beasley]

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On 10:15 Sun 11 May     , maxim wexler wrote:
> Hi group,
> 
> This summer's electrical storms are coming and I can count on my PC stopping dead several times over the season.
> 
> I did a search for UPS units and was overwhelmed by the diversity out there.
> 
> What can the group recommend?
> 
> I only need something that will give me about a minute's head start to safely turn of the box.
> 
> Maxim
> 
I have the CyberPower (geeksquad) 875VA, http://tinyurl.com/2sbxfl.
Works great with apcupsd.

> gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

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Re: [gentoo-user] UPS recommendation

[Roy Wright]

I have several Belkin UPSs which over the years have only let me down
once (we had a power substation fire which did some really funky things
to the AC for a couple of minutes, afterward my motherboard on one
computer "protected" by a Belkin UPS was dead).  My main complaint with
the Belkins is there insistence to loudly beep every 30s when on
battery.  Acceptable for 1 UPS, really annoying for 5...  :-)

Also I tried an off-brand small UPS on my wireless broadband router in
the attic, it only lasted about a year before dying.

When shopping, check replacement battery cost and availability.

When sizing, you may want to include your infrastructure (routers,
switches) and displays.


Have fun,
Roy
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Re: [gentoo-user] UPS recommendation

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 10:15 AM, maxim wexler <blissfix@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi group,
>
>  This summer's electrical storms are coming and I can count on my PC stopping dead several times over the season.
>
>  I did a search for UPS units and was overwhelmed by the diversity out there.
>
>  What can the group recommend?
>
>  I only need something that will give me about a minute's head start to safely turn of the box.
>
>  Maxim
>

I have two APC USP's. We have an older home with 2-conductor wiring. I
have not been happy with these units since we moved in here. Our
previous home had 3-conductor wiring and they seemed to work better in
that house.

The APC's are supported by apcupsd which will shut your machines down
for you. It's important that you make sure whatever choice you make is
well supported as you will likely not be sitting right there when the
problem occurs.

- Mark
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Re: [gentoo-user] UPS recommendation

[Arthur Britto]

On Sun, 2008-05-11 at 10:15 -0700, maxim wexler wrote:
> I did a search for UPS units and was overwhelmed by the diversity out there.
> 
> What can the group recommend?
> 
> I only need something that will give me about a minute's head start to safely turn of the box.

You likely want more than a minute.   Most likely, you don't want your
system to crash when coming back up when power fails soon after it is
restored: your system could be in the middle of a fsck.  Generally, you
want enough capacity to: power off, power on, and then power off safely.

I am very happy with the CyberPower Intelligent LCD Series: CP*AVRLCD
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/

The series has:

NUT support:
You want something that works with NUT.  Instead of a vendor specific
package.  This way your acquired skills are portable and future proofed.
  Network UPS Tools
  http://eu1.networkupstools.org
NUT is great.  It safely powers off my system when the UPS is low.
Additionally, I set it up to e-mail my cell phone when the power state
changes.  If I go out during a power outage, I can stay out longer if I
know the power is not restored.

USB interface:
* A USB port is more future proof: serial ports are becoming rare.  
* Allows monitoring UPS state.
* Allows powering off the UPS.

LCD Display:
At a touch know:
* power consumption (don't need to pull out a Kill-O-Watt)
* battery charge
* estimated minutes remaining

One thing to be wary of is like most inexpensive UPSes it does not
provide a pure sine wave.  This can damage a power supply that has
active power factor correction.  Luckily for my Silencer 750 Quad
according to the manufacturer due to the short time in which the UPS is
in use it is not an issue.

-Arthur


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Re: [gentoo-user] UPS recommendation

[Hal Martin]

Arthur Britto wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-05-11 at 10:15 -0700, maxim wexler wrote:
>   
>> I did a search for UPS units and was overwhelmed by the diversity out there.
>>
>> What can the group recommend?
>>
>> I only need something that will give me about a minute's head start to safely turn of the box.
>>     
>
> You likely want more than a minute.   Most likely, you don't want your
> system to crash when coming back up when power fails soon after it is
> restored: your system could be in the middle of a fsck.  Generally, you
> want enough capacity to: power off, power on, and then power off safely.
>   
True, but I find the main purpose of my UPS is to keep the computer 
running throughout a short power-outage. That's what happens 90% of the 
time, the other 10% of the time, the power outage lasts longer than the 
UPS and it shuts the computer down.
> I am very happy with the CyberPower Intelligent LCD Series: CP*AVRLCD
> http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/
>
> The series has:
>
> NUT support:
> You want something that works with NUT.  Instead of a vendor specific
> package.  This way your acquired skills are portable and future proofed.
>   Network UPS Tools
>   http://eu1.networkupstools.org
> NUT is great.  It safely powers off my system when the UPS is low.
> Additionally, I set it up to e-mail my cell phone when the power state
> changes.  If I go out during a power outage, I can stay out longer if I
> know the power is not restored.
>   
Didn't know that existed. It has really good UPS support too. Guess I 
can buy something other than an APC.
> USB interface:
> * A USB port is more future proof: serial ports are becoming rare.  
> * Allows monitoring UPS state.
> * Allows powering off the UPS.
>
> LCD Display:
> At a touch know:
> * power consumption (don't need to pull out a Kill-O-Watt)
> * battery charge
> * estimated minutes remaining
>   
How much do you think this draws? Does it have any negative effect on 
backup time?
> One thing to be wary of is like most inexpensive UPSes it does not
> provide a pure sine wave.  This can damage a power supply that has
> active power factor correction.  Luckily for my Silencer 750 Quad
> according to the manufacturer due to the short time in which the UPS is
> in use it is not an issue.
>   
Could this be why my computer makes this horrific buzzing noise when on 
the UPS?

I have an APC XS800, the PSU is a Seasonic 330W with Active PFC.
> -Arthur
>
>   
-Hal
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Re: [gentoo-user] UPS recommendation

[Arthur Britto]

On Sun, 2008-05-11 at 16:35 -0400, Hal Martin wrote:
> Arthur Britto wrote:
> > You likely want more than a minute.   Most likely, you don't want your
> > system to crash when coming back up when power fails soon after it is
> > restored: your system could be in the middle of a fsck.  Generally, you
> > want enough capacity to: power off, power on, and then power off safely.
> >   
> True, but I find the main purpose of my UPS is to keep the computer 
> running throughout a short power-outage. That's what happens 90% of the 
> time, the other 10% of the time, the power outage lasts longer than the 
> UPS and it shuts the computer down.

I should have written "At a minimum".  More to the point, the threshold
at which you first shut your computer down should leave enough battery
capacity for you to safely power up and down again.

My usual advice also includes:
* Do not run a system without a UPS, if you want a stable system.
* Having a UPS appears to increase disk life.
* Do not plug a surge suppressor into a UPS.
* Get the largest capacity UPS you can comfortably afford.

-Arthur


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Re: [gentoo-user] UPS recommendation

[Willie Wong]

On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 10:15:49AM -0700, Penguin Lover maxim wexler squawked:
> Hi group,
> 
> This summer's electrical storms are coming and I can count on my PC stopping dead several times over the season.
> 
> I did a search for UPS units and was overwhelmed by the diversity out there.
> 
> What can the group recommend?
> 
> I only need something that will give me about a minute's head start to safely turn of the box.
> 

I use an APC Back-UPS ES 500. Since my desktop is kind of old and does
not consume too much power, it can (and has) helped my desktop survive
a ~30 mintue outage when I could not be reached to shut it down (as to
how I know: my neighbor gave me a call on his cell asking whether the
power is out for me too...) 

I have heard that I can make the graceful shutdown automatic, but so
far I haven't bothered with it. 

W
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Re: [gentoo-user] UPS recommendation

[PaulNM]

Arthur Britto wrote:

> You likely want more than a minute.   Most likely, you don't want your
> system to crash when coming back up when power fails soon after it is
> restored: your system could be in the middle of a fsck.  Generally, you
> want enough capacity to: power off, power on, and then power off safely.
> 
I second this. If the system is busy, it might take a couple of minutes 
before it really shuts down. Ten to fifteen minutes is the MINIMUM 
runtime I'd suggest. As the battery ages, runtime will lessen, plus it 
gives you more room to expand. Power usage does not scale linearly, if 
200 watt usage lasts X amount of time, 400 watt usage lasts less than 
X/2 and 100 watt is more than 2X. My personal experiences with power 
outages is that they're rare and short, but when they do occur they 
happen a few times during the day/night. This, of course, may vary from 
your area.  Another thing to consider is brownouts or volt dropages. The 
ups will kick in if the volt level drops too low (or too high). If this 
happens frequently enough, it will deplete the battery or wear it out 
much more quickly.

> I am very happy with the CyberPower Intelligent LCD Series: CP*AVRLCD
> http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/
> 
> The series has:
> 
> NUT support:
> You want something that works with NUT.  Instead of a vendor specific
> package.  This way your acquired skills are portable and future proofed.
>   Network UPS Tools
>   http://eu1.networkupstools.org
> NUT is great.  It safely powers off my system when the UPS is low.
> Additionally, I set it up to e-mail my cell phone when the power state
> changes.  If I go out during a power outage, I can stay out longer if I
> know the power is not restored.

My personal experience has been with APC equipment, but CyberPower is 
also a great maker. I also second NUT. It's a better, more flexible 
framework that supports just about any decent ups.

> 
> USB interface:
> * A USB port is more future proof: serial ports are becoming rare.  
> * Allows monitoring UPS state.
> * Allows powering off the UPS.
> 
USB is almost mandatory now. Serial ports are usually only on high-end 
expensive models, and (almost) never on what you'll find in stores.

> LCD Display:
> At a touch know:
> * power consumption (don't need to pull out a Kill-O-Watt)
> * battery charge
> * estimated minutes remaining
> 

Before spending extra on anything with an LCD, google the model or lcd 
errors first.  I've seen reports that they tend to be inaccurate, 
especially with APC. Mine under reports watt usage by a significant 
amount, somewhere between 1/3 to 2/3 of actual usage(I forget what my 
tests with various light bulbs showed). This was testing the ups with 
only a small lamp plugged in, everything else UNPLUGGED (not just off). 
I also used several light bulbs since they can vary a little.


> One thing to be wary of is like most inexpensive UPSes it does not
> provide a pure sine wave.  This can damage a power supply that has
> active power factor correction.  Luckily for my Silencer 750 Quad
> according to the manufacturer due to the short time in which the UPS is
> in use it is not an issue.
> 
> -Arthur
> 
> 

PaulNM
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Re: [gentoo-user] UPS recommendation

[maxim wexler]

--- On Tue, 5/13/08, PaulNM <gentoo@paulscrap.com> wrote:

> From: PaulNM <gentoo@paulscrap.com>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] UPS recommendation
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 4:51 AM
> Arthur Britto wrote:
> 
> > You likely want more than a minute.   Most likely, you
> don't want your
> > system to crash when coming back up when power fails
> soon after it is
> > restored: your system could be in the middle of a
> fsck.  Generally, you
> > want enough capacity to: power off, power on, and then
> power off safely.
> > 
> I second this. If the system is busy, it might take a
> couple of minutes 
> before it really shuts down. Ten to fifteen minutes is the
> MINIMUM 
> runtime I'd suggest. As the battery ages, runtime will
> lessen, plus it 
> gives you more room to expand. Power usage does not scale
> linearly, if 
> 200 watt usage lasts X amount of time, 400 watt usage lasts
> less than 
> X/2 and 100 watt is more than 2X. My personal experiences
> with power 
> outages is that they're rare and short, but when they
> do occur they 
> happen a few times during the day/night. This, of course,
> may vary from 
> your area.  Another thing to consider is brownouts or volt
> dropages. The 
> ups will kick in if the volt level drops too low (or too
> high). If this 
> happens frequently enough, it will deplete the battery or
> wear it out 
> much more quickly.
> 
> > I am very happy with the CyberPower Intelligent LCD
> Series: CP*AVRLCD
> > http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/
> > 
> > The series has:
> > 
> > NUT support:
> > You want something that works with NUT.  Instead of
> a vendor specific
> > package.  This way your acquired skills are portable
> and future proofed.
> >   Network UPS Tools
> >   http://eu1.networkupstools.org
> > NUT is great.  It safely powers off my system when the
> UPS is low.
> > Additionally, I set it up to e-mail my cell phone when
> the power state
> > changes.  If I go out during a power outage, I can
> stay out longer if I
> > know the power is not restored.
> 
> My personal experience has been with APC equipment, but
> CyberPower is 
> also a great maker. I also second NUT. It's a better,
> more flexible 
> framework that supports just about any decent ups.
> 
> > 
> > USB interface:
> > * A USB port is more future proof: serial ports are
> becoming rare.  
> > * Allows monitoring UPS state.
> > * Allows powering off the UPS.
> > 
> USB is almost mandatory now. Serial ports are usually only
> on high-end 
> expensive models, and (almost) never on what you'll
> find in stores.
> 
> > LCD Display:
> > At a touch know:
> > * power consumption (don't need to pull out a
> Kill-O-Watt)
> > * battery charge
> > * estimated minutes remaining
> > 
> 
> Before spending extra on anything with an LCD, google the
> model or lcd 
> errors first.  I've seen reports that they tend to be
> inaccurate, 
> especially with APC. Mine under reports watt usage by a
> significant 
> amount, somewhere between 1/3 to 2/3 of actual usage(I
> forget what my 
> tests with various light bulbs showed). This was testing
> the ups with 
> only a small lamp plugged in, everything else UNPLUGGED
> (not just off). 
> I also used several light bulbs since they can vary a
> little.
> 
> 
> > One thing to be wary of is like most inexpensive UPSes
> it does not
> > provide a pure sine wave.  This can damage a power
> supply that has
> > active power factor correction.  Luckily for my
> Silencer 750 Quad
> > according to the manufacturer due to the short time in
> which the UPS is
> > in use it is not an issue.
> > 
> > -Arthur
> > 
> > 
> 
> PaulNM
> -- 
> gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Thanks for your exhaustive replies. I've decided to go for the APC ES-350 for seventy bucks at the local Staples. Mostly because I could pack it home on my bike and avoid the shipping charges which are huge for heavy things, like UPS systems. According to the table on the back of the box I get 6min with a 15in LCD monitor, so I should get slightly more with no monitor attached. I don't care if I don't save something or have to abort a compile in mid-stream. What I'm afraid of his having the power cut out while the r/w head of the hard drive is in motion. That can't be good.

-mw



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Re: [gentoo-user] ttyS0 conflict was UPS recommendation

[maxim wexler]

> Thanks for your exhaustive replies. I've decided to go
> for the APC ES-350 for seventy bucks at the local Staples.

been following this page:

http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_APCUPSD

Kernel seems to have all the right stuff...

heathen@localhost ~ $ emerge -pv apcupsd

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild   R   ] sys-power/apcupsd-3.12.4  USE="ncurses usb -cgi -doc -nls -snmp -threads -vhosts" 0 kB

#rc-update add apcupsd default. So far so good. 

$cat /proc/bus/usb/devices

<...>
T:  Bus=03 Lev=01 Prnt=01 Port=01 Cnt=01 Dev#=  2 Spd=1.5 MxCh= 0
D:  Ver= 1.10 Cls=00(>ifc ) Sub=00 Prot=00 MxPS= 8 #Cfgs=  1
P:  Vendor=051d ProdID=0002 Rev= 1.06
S:  Manufacturer=APC
S:  Product=Back-UPS ES 350 FW:823.B1.D USB FW:B1
S:  SerialNumber=3B0742X02836
C:* #Ifs= 1 Cfg#= 1 Atr=e0 MxPwr=  0mA
I:* If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 1 Cls=03(HID  ) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=usbhid
E:  Ad=81(I) Atr=03(Int.) MxPS=   6 Ivl=10ms
<...>

But when I try dialup I get this:

Device ttyS0 is blocked by PID 3981

which turns out is apcupsd. So I have to kill it before I can dial out.
Sure enough, in the conf file there is this: DEVICE /dev/ttyS0.

Which makes me wonder why it needs /dev/ttyS0? I'm using an external USR modem which uses ttyS0.

If I don't need to protect a fax-machine why do I need that phone line connector in the back of the UPS device anyway? When the power goes I don't care if the modem dies.

Can I just tell it to use one of these other /dev/ttyS*? If I comment out that DEVICE line will the thing still protect my PC?

heathen@localhost ~ $ ls /dev/ttyS*
/dev/ttyS0  /dev/ttyS1  /dev/ttyS2  /dev/ttyS3

Maxim







      
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Re: [gentoo-user] ttyS0 conflict was UPS recommendation

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:57:24 -0700 (PDT), maxim wexler wrote:

> > Thanks for your exhaustive replies. I've decided to go
> > for the APC ES-350 for seventy bucks at the local Staples.  

> But when I try dialup I get this:
> 
> Device ttyS0 is blocked by PID 3981
> 
> which turns out is apcupsd. So I have to kill it before I can dial out.
> Sure enough, in the conf file there is this: DEVICE /dev/ttyS0.

Is this a serial or USB model? My APC CS 650 uses USB and the DEVICE
entry in the config file is just "DEVICE" as per the comments in the file
and the man page.

If it is a serial device, then you clearly cannot have two devices
plugged into the same post, so one of them must be ttyS1 or higher.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 002: No Error - Yet

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Re: [gentoo-user] ttyS0 conflict was UPS recommendation

[maxim wexler]

--- On Fri, 5/16/08, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> From: Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] ttyS0 conflict was UPS recommendation
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Friday, May 16, 2008, 3:21 PM
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:57:24 -0700 (PDT), maxim wexler
> wrote:
> 
> > > Thanks for your exhaustive replies. I've
> decided to go
> > > for the APC ES-350 for seventy bucks at the local
> Staples.  
> 
> > But when I try dialup I get this:
> > 
> > Device ttyS0 is blocked by PID 3981
> > 
> > which turns out is apcupsd. So I have to kill it
> before I can dial out.
> > Sure enough, in the conf file there is this: DEVICE
> /dev/ttyS0.
> 
> Is this a serial or USB model? My APC CS 650 uses USB and

USB

> the DEVICE
> entry in the config file is just "DEVICE" as per
> the comments in the file
> and the man page.

There are comments for everything else except the line:

DEVICE /dev/ttyS0

But that would seem to conflict with the line further up the page:

UPSCABLE usb

But yeah, the manual says leave DEVICE blank for USB-connected units. I'll try that. Thanks.

mw


      
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