[gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?

[gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?

[Walter Dnes]

  Tried to do an update today.  Gnumeric has a new dependancy, namely
goffice.  Trying to build goffice fails with the following message...

 * Messages for package x11-libs/goffice-0.6.1:

 * Please rebuild x11-libs/cairo with svg support enabled
 * echo "x11-libs/cairo svg" >> /etc/portage/package.use
 * emerge -1 x11-libs/cairo
 * Please rebuild dev-libs/libpcre with unicode support enabled
 * echo "dev-libs/libpcre unicode" >> /etc/portage/package.use
 * emerge -1 dev-libs/libpcre
 *
 * ERROR: x11-libs/goffice-0.6.1 failed.
 * Call stack:
 *              ebuild.sh, line 1717:  Called dyn_setup
 *              ebuild.sh, line  768:  Called qa_call 'pkg_setup'
 *              ebuild.sh, line   44:  Called pkg_setup
 *   goffice-0.6.1.ebuild, line   64:  Called die
 * The specific snippet of code:
 *      [ -n "${diemessage}" ] && die ${diemessage}
 *  The die message:
 *   No SVG support found in cairo. No unicode support found in libpcre.
 *
 * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if relevant.
 * A complete build log is located at '/var/log/portage/x11-libs:goffice-0.6.1:20080113-232058.log'.

  SVG is an OpenSource replacement for Schlockwave-Trash, to be used for
creating singing/dancing webpages.  Unicode is great if you're building
a desktop for use in the library room of the United Nations.  There is
no real need for it on a single-language desktop machine.  Can someone
explain the so-called "logic" behind these mandatory dependancies *IN A
SPREADSHEET*?  Is there a way to to modify the ebuild to remove the
dependancies without blowing up the compile?

  One reason that linux has finally started to come into its own is that
it can fit onto under-specced machines like the OLPC and Asus EEE, on
which XP has trouble fitting, and Vista is "totally fuggedaboutit".
That advantage risks being ruined if we follow the "Windows Disease" and
insist on unnecessarily bloating basic apps.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X Window user...  I'm an ex-Windows-user
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Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Montag, 14. Januar 2008 schrieb ext Walter Dnes:

> SVG is an OpenSource replacement for Schlockwave-Trash, to be used for
> creating singing/dancing webpages.

Nope. SVG is Scalable Vector Graphics, a vector image format. Maybe it's 
used for icon rendering, like in KDE.

Bye...

	Dirk
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Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?

[Wayne Clement]

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On 1/14/08, Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs.ext@nsn.com> wrote:
>
> >>Am Montag, 14. Januar 2008 schrieb ext Walter Dnes:
> >
> >> SVG is an OpenSource replacement for Schlockwave-Trash, to be used for
> > >creating singing/dancing webpages.
> >
> >Nope. SVG is Scalable Vector Graphics, a vector image format. Maybe it's
> >used for icon rendering, like in KDE.
> >
> >Bye...
> >
>  >       Dirk


Any chance it's for drawing pie charts and such????

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Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?

[Renat Golubchyk]

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On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:49:53 -0500 "Walter Dnes"
<waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:
>   Tried to do an update today.  Gnumeric has a new dependancy, namely
> goffice.  Trying to build goffice fails with the following message...
> 
[snip]
>   SVG is an OpenSource replacement for Schlockwave-Trash, to be used
> for creating singing/dancing webpages.

SVG is Scalable Vector Graphics, a (XML based) vector image format that
*can* be used for animations. It is now used, e.g., for scalable icons
in GNOME and KDE.

> Unicode is great if you're building a desktop for use in the
> library room of the United Nations.  There is no real need for it on
> a single-language desktop machine.

Everything gets converted to unicode these days. Get used to it. Nobody
will write an application using only ASCII for English-speaking
population and Unicode for everybody else. It's just ain't going to
happen. It would be a major pain in the ass to code such a beast.

>  Can someone explain the so-called "logic" behind these mandatory
> dependancies *IN A SPREADSHEET*?

Gnumeric uses GTK+ 2.x which internally uses unicode to handles strings.
Thus, it needs libpcre to be built with unicode support. If you don't
like it, don't use GTK+ 2.x apps.

> Is there a way to to modify the ebuild to remove the dependancies
> without blowing up the compile?

No.

> One reason that linux has finally started to come into its own is
> that it can fit onto under-specced machines like the OLPC and Asus
> EEE, on which XP has trouble fitting, and Vista is "totally
> fuggedaboutit". That advantage risks being ruined if we follow the
> "Windows Disease" and insist on unnecessarily bloating basic apps.

There is nothing basic about a spreadsheet program. It is a very
advanced piece of software. From a developer's perspective unicode is an
obvious requirement, if he tries to write a program for many different
locales without too much hassle.


Cheers,
Renat

-- 
Probleme kann man niemals mit derselben Denkweise loesen,
durch die sie entstanden sind.
                                              (Einstein)

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Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?

[Albert Hopkins]

On Sun, 2008-01-13 at 22:49 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
> SVG is an OpenSource replacement for Schlockwave-Trash, to be used for
> creating singing/dancing webpages.  

SVG actually has (very) little to do with shockwave.  It's a graphics
format, like JPEG or PNG, but is vector instead of raster.  Most of the
icons used these days are SVG icons. The default GNOME theme uses SVG.
Gnumeric, for example, uses SVG to render charts.  Unless you're on a
text console or your desktop is ugly you're likely using SVG.

> Unicode is great if you're building
> a desktop for use in the library room of the United Nations.  There is
> no real need for it on a single-language desktop machine.  

Unicode is pretty much a de-facto standard these days.  Just today I
read a (English) Changelog that had Unicode (UTF8) characters in it.
Most editors, even Vim, save to UTF8 by default (if supported by your
locale).  Might as well get used to that one too.

-a



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Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Montag, 14. Januar 2008, Wayne Clement wrote:
> On 1/14/08, Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs.ext@nsn.com> wrote:
> > >>Am Montag, 14. Januar 2008 schrieb ext Walter Dnes:
> > >>
> > >> SVG is an OpenSource replacement for Schlockwave-Trash, to be used for
> > >>
> > > >creating singing/dancing webpages.
> > >
> > >Nope. SVG is Scalable Vector Graphics, a vector image format. Maybe it's
> > >used for icon rendering, like in KDE.
> > >
> > >Bye...
> > >
> >  >       Dirk
>
> Any chance it's for drawing pie charts and such????

yes
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Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?

[b.n.]

Walter Dnes ha scritto:
>   Tried to do an update today.  Gnumeric has a new dependancy, namely
> goffice.  Trying to build goffice fails with the following message...

Use another spreadsheet and go ranting on your blog.
Bye.

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?

[Gabriel Rossetti]

b.n. wrote:
> Walter Dnes ha scritto:
>   
>>   Tried to do an update today.  Gnumeric has a new dependancy, namely
>> goffice.  Trying to build goffice fails with the following message...
>>     
>
> Use another spreadsheet and go ranting on your blog.
> Bye.
>
> m.
>   
Yep, I don't see why he's shocked by having SVG and Unicode, especially
the later as a dep, they seem perfectly logical to me. What shocked me
is his "WTF"....

Gabriel
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Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 14 January 2008, Gabriel Rossetti wrote:
> b.n. wrote:
> > Walter Dnes ha scritto:
> >>   Tried to do an update today.  Gnumeric has a new dependancy,
> >> namely goffice.  Trying to build goffice fails with the following
> >> message...
> >
> > Use another spreadsheet and go ranting on your blog.
> > Bye.
> >
> > m.
>
> Yep, I don't see why he's shocked by having SVG and Unicode,
> especially the later as a dep, they seem perfectly logical to me.
> What shocked me is his "WTF"....

He was shocked because he thought 'svg' was the GNU Flash-replacement, 
not vector graphics support.

An easy enough mistake to make I suppose. Done worse myself.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
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Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?

[Hans-Werner Hilse]

Hi,

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:13:33 +0100 Renat Golubchyk <ragermany@gmx.net>
wrote:

> There is nothing basic about a spreadsheet program. It is a very
> advanced piece of software. From a developer's perspective unicode is
> an obvious requirement, if he tries to write a program for many
> different locales without too much hassle.

And I can well see myself e.g. inserting greek chars that have some
mathematical meaning in my spreadsheets... After all, this isn't
Lotus-123 and I don't use a 9-pin-printer anymore...

And FWIW, SVG (or parts of it and lots of referring definitions) is
integrated in the Open Document Format for Office Applications.

-hwh
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