[gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Philip Webb]

I have run Gentoo since I built my 2nd machine in Oct 2003 .
The 1st box (2000) is set up for emergency use (Mandriva 2005)
& is becoming too old & slow for today's Internet & software in general.
As a result, I'm planning to build a 3rd machine later this summer.
The 2nd will become my emergency alternative machine.

Below are the parts which seem best for my needs & budget.
The new machine probably wb overkill for my modest desktop needs,
but I was very successful with cutting-edge pieces for the 2nd box 2003
& hope the 3rd wb as good in 2011, when I mb more ambitious (grin).

(1) 3rd Machine

  (a) CPU -- AMD 64 X2 4800+ (65 W) , 512 K , 65 nm , socket AM2
       or    AMD 64 X2 5600+ (89 W) ,   1 M , 90 nm , socket AM2
  (b) Mobo -- Asus M2N-E Nforce 570 , DDR2 533/667/800
  (c) Memory -- Kingston , 1 GB , 800
  (d) Graphix -- Asus EN8500GT Nvidia , 512 MB DDR2 800
  (e) HDD -- W Digital , 500 GB , 16 MB
  (f) DVD-RW -- Samsung SH-S182F/BEBN , DVD-W 8x , CD-W 32x
  (g) Diskette -- from 1st machine
  (h) Case -- store-brand Radiant P4 Mid (500 W)

(2) Additions for 2nd machine 

  (a) Copy data into 2nd machine : DVD-ROM -- LiteOn 16x
  (b) Switch keyboard/mouse/monitor : KVM switch -- DLink

(3) LCD Monitor -- Samsung SyncMaster 931BW , 19 in , 1440x900 , 2 ms

Brands are chosen which I've had some experience with before.
I want to be sure all the pieces can be used with Gentoo
(I looked at Gentoo docs, but didn't see anything re hardware).

(1a) I'm confused by the CPU features '65 nm' & '90 nm':
  yes, I know they refer to tiny distances,
  but would expect the faster CPU to have the smaller distance,
  whereas the opposite is true for those listed (AMD docs don't mention it).
(1d) The Nvidia site lists '8500GT' as supported by driver 100-14-09 ,
  which is in Portage, but currently masked (the reason is not clear);
  Phoronix has a review of this card used with Linux.
(1f 2a) I'm new to DVD's, which I plan to use for back-ups
  & to keep the 2nd machine upto-date as an emergency alternative;
  I don't now do video or gaming, but the box should support them in case.
(1h) The store will probably confirm whether the power supply is adequate.
(2b) A KVM switch seems a big improvement on plug/unplugging connections.
(3) My Samsung SyncMaster 550s CRT monitor (2000) still works very well.

Does anyone have any warnings or comments re any of the bits & pieces ?

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Aleksey V. Kunitskiy]

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On Monday 09 July 2007 11:44, Philip Webb wrote:
> (1a) I'm confused by the CPU features '65 nm' & '90 nm':
>   yes, I know they refer to tiny distances,
>   but would expect the faster CPU to have the smaller distance,
>   whereas the opposite is true for those listed (AMD docs don't mention
Technological process(those numbers like 65nm and 90nm) does not affect CPU 
speed. T.p. affects on max CPU clock frequency for this tech process(i.e. for 
this CPU series) and total dissipated power(i.e. TDP, those that are 65W and 
89W)

> (1h) The store will probably confirm whether the power supply is adequate.
I have AMD X2 4400+ (89W or more - don't remember exactly), ASUS GeForce 
EN7950GT, two harddisks - WD-160 PATA and WD-200 SATA, two DVD drives 
(DVD-ROM/CD-RW and DVD/CD-RW), motherboard - ASUS A8NE. And,you know, my 300W 
power supply is OK with all of it.

Good luck!


-- 
best regards,
Aleksey V. Kunitskiy
my public GPG/PGP key: http://www.alexey-kv.org.ua/pubkey.asc

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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Mark Shields]

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On 7/9/07, Philip Webb <purslow@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> (1) 3rd Machine
>
>   (a) CPU -- AMD 64 X2 4800+ (65 W) , 512 K , 65 nm , socket AM2
>        or    AMD 64 X2 5600+ (89 W) ,   1 M , 90 nm , socket AM2
>   (b) Mobo -- Asus M2N-E Nforce 570 , DDR2 533/667/800
>   (c) Memory -- Kingston , 1 GB , 800
>   (d) Graphix -- Asus EN8500GT Nvidia , 512 MB DDR2 800
>   (e) HDD -- W Digital , 500 GB , 16 MB
>   (f) DVD-RW -- Samsung SH-S182F/BEBN , DVD-W 8x , CD-W 32x
>   (g) Diskette -- from 1st machine
>   (h) Case -- store-brand Radiant P4 Mid (500 W)
>
> (2) Additions for 2nd machine
>
>   (a) Copy data into 2nd machine : DVD-ROM -- LiteOn 16x
>   (b) Switch keyboard/mouse/monitor : KVM switch -- DLink
>
> (3) LCD Monitor -- Samsung SyncMaster 931BW , 19 in , 1440x900 , 2 ms


<snip>

(1a) I'm confused by the CPU features '65 nm' & '90 nm':
>   yes, I know they refer to tiny distances,
>   but would expect the faster CPU to have the smaller distance,
>   whereas the opposite is true for those listed (AMD docs don't mention
> it).
> (1d) The Nvidia site lists '8500GT' as supported by driver 100-14-09 ,
>   which is in Portage, but currently masked (the reason is not clear);
>   Phoronix has a review of this card used with Linux.
> (1f 2a) I'm new to DVD's, which I plan to use for back-ups
>   & to keep the 2nd machine upto-date as an emergency alternative;
>   I don't now do video or gaming, but the box should support them in case.
> (1h) The store will probably confirm whether the power supply is adequate.
> (2b) A KVM switch seems a big improvement on plug/unplugging connections.
> (3) My Samsung SyncMaster 550s CRT monitor (2000) still works very well.
>
> Does anyone have any warnings or comments re any of the bits & pieces ?
>


(1a):  If this is just a backup machine, I would recommend the one that uses
the less power. Also, make sure you compile CPU scaling into the kernel.
Unless of course heat or energy use isn't an issue.
(1d):  I can imagine it's masked because it hasn't been fully tested to be
marked as stable yet; however, I have used it on my system which has a
8800GTS card, and it seemed to work fine, although it wasn't terribly stable
(only tested it with Beryl).  2D seems fine.
(1h):  Unless it's a brand name power supply or case that comes with one,
I'd recommend junking it and buying a good quality, brand name power supply,
like Thermaltake or Antec.  You gamble the rest of your system failing when
you use a lower-end power supply.

-- 
- Mark Shields

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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Philip Webb]

070709 Mark Shields wrote:
> (1a): If this is just a backup machine,

No, please re-read my careful description !
The list is of parts I plan to buy for my new front-line machine.
Once it's fully commissioned, my present machine will become the stand-by.

Thanks to both respondents so far.  Further comments are very welcome.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Mark Shields]

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On 7/9/07, Philip Webb <purslow@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> 070709 Mark Shields wrote:
> > (1a): If this is just a backup machine,
>
> No, please re-read my careful description !
> The list is of parts I plan to buy for my new front-line machine.
> Once it's fully commissioned, my present machine will become the stand-by.
>
> Thanks to both respondents so far.  Further comments are very welcome.
>
> --
> ========================,,============================================
> SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
> ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
> TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
Ah, sorry.  I saw "(1) 3rd Machine" and thought it was a backup machine.  If
you want this machine to last for a while, I would go with an Athlon X2
6000+, or wait a little while and get a quad-core AMD with a compatible
motherboard.

-- 
- Mark Shields

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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Dale]

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Mark Shields wrote:
> On 7/9/07, *Philip Webb* <purslow@sympatico.ca
> <mailto:purslow@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
>
>     070709 Mark Shields wrote:
>     > (1a): If this is just a backup machine,
>
>     No, please re-read my careful description !
>     The list is of parts I plan to buy for my new front-line machine.
>     Once it's fully commissioned, my present machine will become the
>     stand-by.
>
>     Thanks to both respondents so far.  Further comments are very welcome.
>
>     --
>     ========================,,============================================
>     SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb :
>     purslow@chass.utoronto.ca <mailto:purslow@chass.utoronto.ca>
>     ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
>     TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
>     --
>     gentoo-user@gentoo.org <mailto:gentoo-user@gentoo.org> mailing list
>
>
> Ah, sorry.  I saw "(1) 3rd Machine" and thought it was a backup
> machine.  If you want this machine to last for a while, I would go
> with an Athlon X2 6000+, or wait a little while and get a quad-core
> AMD with a compatible motherboard.
>
> -- 
> - Mark Shields 

Sorry to but in here, can you tell me about what this rig will cost
you?  Just curious since I need to do the same thing here.  My AMD 2500+
is getting a bit old now.  :/

Thanks

Dale

:-)  :-)

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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Philip Webb]

070709 Dale wrote:
> Sorry to butt in here, can you tell me about what this rig will cost ?
> I need to do the same thing here.  My AMD 2500+ is getting a bit old.

Oh !  My present (2003) machine (working well) has that processor
& the 2000 machine (to be replaced) has a Celeron 466 ... (smile).

My specs: "Total cost : $ 915 - 1002 : incl tax $ 1043 - 1142".
That's CAD, which are worth  c USD 0,95  & rising.
NB that includes a new monitor, which wb  CAD 228  ( 260  incl tax).
I plan to buy only  1 GB  memory, which is plenty in my present machine,
& have chosen what appear to be mid-priced items from the store's list.

Someone mentioned a quad-core: are they presently supported by Gentoo ?

All comments are most welcome & will go into my specs file.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Monday 09 July 2007, Philip Webb <purslow@sympatico.ca> wrote about 'Re: 
[gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo':
> Someone mentioned a quad-core: are they presently supported by Gentoo ?

Well, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that, but Gentoo loves my 
dual-dual-core system (so 4 processors in /proc/cpuinfo).  IMO, it should 
run quite well on quad-core hardware.

Linux has had support for medium-large SMP systems (up to 255 CPUs, IIRC) 
for quite a while.

-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.                     ,= ,-_-. =. 
bss03@volumehost.net                      ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy           `-'(. .)`-' 
http://iguanasuicide.org/                      \_/     

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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Julian Simioni]

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On 7/9/07, Philip Webb <purslow@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Someone mentioned a quad-core: are they presently supported by Gentoo ?


I can't see why they wouldn't be. Just make sure you enable SMP and up to 4
processors in your kernel.

As for other parts...
 I have an 8500GT video card in my machine right now and the
100.14.11driver which is in portage works just fine. It fixes few
rather nasty bugs
over 100.14.09 as well.
In general, looks to be pretty good. 1GB of RAM will certainly be enough for
Linux. Almost certainly not for Vista, but you wouldn't want to run that
anyways right?
However one thing stands out as a rather interesting choice. Since Core 2
Duos are so inexpensive, and will easily outperform and use less power than
an Athlon64, why stick with AMD? My 4300, which I bought a few weeks ago for
$110, is the slowest Core 2 Duo, but it would probably at least perform
similarly if not outperform either of the AMD processors you listed. Also if
you happen to feel comfortable with a little overclocking, you can generally
get quite a nice speed boost for very little change in temperature or
stability. Finally, Intel is going to be announcing some nice price cuts on
the 22nd of this month. Most notably the Q6600, a 2.4GHz quad-core part will
be available for a mere $266. Google can provide more price cut details.

Hope it helps

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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Philip Webb]

070709 Julian Simioni wrote:
> I have an 8500GT video card in my machine right now
> and the 100.14.11 driver which is in portage works just fine.

That's good to hear.

> you wouldn't want to run Vista anyways right?

No ...

> Since Core 2 Duos are so inexpensive
> and will easily outperform and use less power than an Athlon64,
> why stick with AMD ?  My 4300, which I bought a few weeks ago for $ 110 ,
> is the slowest Core 2 Duo, but would probably perform similarly
> if not outperform either of the AMD processors you listed.
> Intel is going to be announcing some nice price cuts on the 22nd:
> esp Q6600, a 2.4GHz quad-core part will be available for a mere $ 266 . 

I just checked my usual store's site & prices have dropped dramatically
(that's in the last few hours!), so the AMD 6000+ is now reasonable:
it needs  125 W , but hopefully that's not too much;
it's rated at  3 GHz  with  2 x 1 MB L2 cache ; price  CAD 197 .
As for Intel, the 4300 is rated at  1,8 GHz  & costs  CAD 140 ,
while the Q6600 costs  CAD 610 , way beyond my limit.
So I'm inclined to stay with AMD, which has worked well since 2003.

> Hope it helps

Definitely !

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Dan Farrell]

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 04:44:39 -0400
Philip Webb <purslow@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>   (e) HDD -- W Digital , 500 GB , 16 MB
Do you really want a WD hard drive?  Unless it's a Raptor, it's only
got a 1-3 year warranty.  Seagate drives are warranted for 5 years.
According to newegg, comperable drives are the same price.  

>   (g) Diskette -- from 1st machine
yeah... you'll need one of those ; )

>   (h) Case -- store-brand Radiant P4 Mid (500 W)
Aside from off-brand worries (others worry more than be about that) 500
watts ought to be enough

>   (b) Switch keyboard/mouse/monitor : KVM switch -- DLink
Do what you will, but my advice is -- save your money.  KVM switches
are useless.  Do you really want to pay US $50 (??) for something that
you can easily replace with X forwarding?  OK, that's the last you'll
here from me on that topic.  
> SyncMaster 931BW , 19 in , 1440x900 , 2 ms
ooh, that'll be pretty ; )

>(1h) The store will probably confirm whether the power supply
> is adequate. 
Yeah, if you want to trust sales people who don't care about your well
being and probably get paid on comission ; )  No, seriously, if you
trust your sales people, you gotta tell me where you're shopping ; )

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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Patrick May]

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On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 11:47:52PM +0000, b.n. wrote:
> Dan Farrell ha scritto:
> 
> >>  (b) Switch keyboard/mouse/monitor : KVM switch -- DLink
> >Do what you will, but my advice is -- save your money.  KVM switches
> >are useless.  Do you really want to pay US $50 (??) for something that
> >you can easily replace with X forwarding?  OK, that's the last you'll
> >here from me on that topic.  
> 
> What's a KVM switch?
> 
> m.

Devices that allows one keyboard, mouse and monitor to be shared between
several pieces of hardware. Usually found with servers. Newer ones will also
share audio in/out (speakers and microphones.) 

RDP, VNC, X, etc. is replacing a lot of it. Why walk over when a couple mouse
clicks or keys (for SSH) you can "be there."

Patrick

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[gentoo-user] KVM switch (was: building a machine for Gentoo)

[Alexander Skwar]

· b.n. <brullonulla@gmail.com>:

> What's a KVM switch?

Wikipedia broken? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KVM_switch

Alexander Skwar
-- 
When a girl marries she exchanges the attentions of many men for the
inattentions of one.
                -- Helen Rowland


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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Aleksey V. Kunitskiy]

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On Tuesday 10 July 2007 02:46, b.n. wrote:
> If you want to start with 1 Gb, buy a
> single 1 Gb stick, and not two 512 Mb ones -so when you will want to
> upgrade, you'll have less problems.
I think it's not a good idea. Because AMD X2 has dual channel memory 
controller, and memory bandwidth will fall in 2 times with one stick. 2*512MB 
not a big problem - I have 2*512M + 1G on one of my boxes - most of 
motherboards have 3-4 memory slots.

-- 
best regards,
Aleksey V. Kunitskiy
my public GPG/PGP key: http://www.alexey-kv.org.ua/pubkey.asc

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Re: [gentoo-user] serial terminal

[Dan Farrell]

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:53:09 +0300
"Aleksey V. Kunitskiy" <alexey.kv@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday 10 July 2007 00:39, Patrick May wrote:
> > RDP, VNC, X, etc. is replacing a lot of it. Why walk over when a
> > couple mouse clicks or keys (for SSH) you can "be there."
> 
> When the system is installed it is OK. But when it doesn't - is
> problem for me I'll install Gentoo on my home server soon and it is
> very interesting to me how I can use SSH terminal through COM or LPT
> port. Can somebody point me to doc how to setup Gentoo from LiveCD
> via serial terminal?
> 
Generally you'd boot the server system from a gentoo (or other) boot cd
and then start up a SSH server on the system, and set the root
password, and then log in from another host.  In this scheme, you'd be
using ssh through the network, and not through serial or parallel ports.

If you wanted to use a serial or parallel port, it's probably feasible,
but a lot more work even than temporarily hooking up a
keyboard and monitor so that you can set the root password and start
SSH.  I've done it once before with a serial cable on another system,
but it required a lot more setup than would have been necessary if I
could have simply networked them together.  

Serial and Parallel networking have, for the most part, been made
obsolete by inexpensive and mature Ethernet.
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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Dan Farrell]

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:45:18 +0300
"Aleksey V. Kunitskiy" <alexey.kv@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday 10 July 2007 02:46, b.n. wrote:
> > If you want to start with 1 Gb, buy a
> > single 1 Gb stick, and not two 512 Mb ones -so when you will want to
> > upgrade, you'll have less problems.
> I think it's not a good idea. Because AMD X2 has dual channel memory 
> controller, and memory bandwidth will fall in 2 times with one stick.
> 2*512MB not a big problem - I have 2*512M + 1G on one of my boxes -
> most of motherboards have 3-4 memory slots.
> 
By the time 1G isn't good enough for linux DDR2 ram will be worth so
little, it seems to me that it would be better to save the money now
and buy more ram later, should it become an issue.  Even if that meant
having to replace the 2 sticks rather than add to them, it would still
be financially preferable.  

Besides, the motherboard you mentioned above has 4 slots for ram, not
2.  
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Iain Buchanan]

On Mon, 2007-07-09 at 14:39 -0700, Patrick May wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 11:47:52PM +0000, b.n. wrote:
> > Dan Farrell ha scritto:
> > 
> > >>  (b) Switch keyboard/mouse/monitor : KVM switch -- DLink
> > >Do what you will, but my advice is -- save your money.  KVM switches
> > >are useless.  Do you really want to pay US $50 (??) for something that
> > >you can easily replace with X forwarding?  OK, that's the last you'll
> > >here from me on that topic.  
> > 
> > What's a KVM switch?
> > 
> > m.
> 
> Devices that allows one keyboard, mouse and monitor to be shared between
> several pieces of hardware. Usually found with servers. Newer ones will also
> share audio in/out (speakers and microphones.) 
> 
> RDP, VNC, X, etc. is replacing a lot of it. Why walk over when a couple mouse
> clicks or keys (for SSH) you can "be there."

because KVM's are OS independent; they can get you into the BIOS or
console; you can see boot messages; network doesn't need to be working
(even though it's called a network, sometimes it doesn't ;)  Just to
name a few benefits.  So yes, I agree if you're only interested in the
machine once it's running, then don't waste the money, but if you need
the other features they are still very useful.

cya,
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

Evil is that which one believes of others.  It is a sin to believe evil
of others, but it is seldom a mistake.
		-- H.L. Mencken

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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[b.n.]

> In general, looks to be pretty good. 1GB of RAM will certainly be enough 
> for Linux. 

Sure (I have 1 Gb and I never swap, even with more than a dozen of 
not-lightweight apps open and a full KDE desktop).

However, if your machine has to last somehow long, the more RAM the 
better. You don't know how much RAM will suck KDE 5 or Gnome 3 :) ...

2 Gb of RAM today is standard. If you want to start with 1 Gb, buy a 
single 1 Gb stick, and not two 512 Mb ones -so when you will want to 
upgrade, you'll have less problems.

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[b.n.]

Dan Farrell ha scritto:

>>   (b) Switch keyboard/mouse/monitor : KVM switch -- DLink
> Do what you will, but my advice is -- save your money.  KVM switches
> are useless.  Do you really want to pay US $50 (??) for something that
> you can easily replace with X forwarding?  OK, that's the last you'll
> here from me on that topic.  

What's a KVM switch?

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] KVM switch

[b.n.]

Alexander Skwar ha scritto:
> · b.n. <brullonulla@gmail.com>:
> 
>> What's a KVM switch?
> 
> Wikipedia broken? :)
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KVM_switch

Didn't look on WP because from the sentence "KVM Switch -- DLink" wasn't 
at all clear that KVM switch was a common word -KVM could have been a 
trademark etc. Sorry for that. :)

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Ophidian]

Philip Webb wrote:
> 070709 Julian Simioni wrote:
>> Since Core 2 Duos are so inexpensive
>> and will easily outperform and use less power than an Athlon64,
>> why stick with AMD ?  My 4300, which I bought a few weeks ago for $ 110 ,
>> is the slowest Core 2 Duo, but would probably perform similarly
>> if not outperform either of the AMD processors you listed.
>> Intel is going to be announcing some nice price cuts on the 22nd:
>> esp Q6600, a 2.4GHz quad-core part will be available for a mere $ 266 . 
> 
> I just checked my usual store's site & prices have dropped dramatically
> (that's in the last few hours!), so the AMD 6000+ is now reasonable:
> it needs  125 W , but hopefully that's not too much;
> it's rated at  3 GHz  with  2 x 1 MB L2 cache ; price  CAD 197 .
> As for Intel, the 4300 is rated at  1,8 GHz  & costs  CAD 140 ,
> while the Q6600 costs  CAD 610 , way beyond my limit.
> So I'm inclined to stay with AMD, which has worked well since 2003.
> 

If you have to buy right now, there's no way around the fact that the 
Core 2 Duo's are just a better chip.  Better performance across the 
board for less wattage (lower power usage and the machine runs cooler). 
  AMD is barely staying competitive right now by aggressively slashing 
prices to keep its chips close in price/performance ratio.  If you 
really want to buy AMD, you may be better off waiting for Barcelona in 
August.  Don't get me wrong, I love AMD.  Almost all of my machines at 
home have AMD inside, but they're listing along with an old architecture 
(The Dual-Core K8 chips were first released in August 2005, K8 itself 
was sometime 2003).

The other nice thing about Intel + Linux right now is open source 
drivers (assuming you aren't a gamer and thus in need of one of the 
NVidia discrete graphics cards)

Back in April (2 price-cuts ago), I got myself the following:
(All prices CAD, tax not incl.)

114.38 - Antec NSK1300 (mATX case + PSU)
169.99 - 2x1GB Corsair DDR2-667 RAM
112.70 - ASRock Conroe 1333-DVI/H Motherboard (mATX, PCI-E, onboard 
Intel 945G graphics, onboard sound, GBLAN)
243.10 - Intel Core 2 Duo 6300 (1.86Ghz, 1066 FSB, 2MB Cache)

DVD-ROM and Harddrive (some SATA 200GB drive) were scrounged from 
amongst existing machines.

Right now I've got 64bit Fedora 7 on it, but the machine absolutely 
flies at everything I use it for.  Eventually I'll find time to run 
Gentoo on it and tinker with E17.  And yes, the 2GB RAM is probably 
overkill since I've never actually taken it all that close to filling up 
RAM let alone swapping to disk.

Seriously, give the Core2's another look.

Hope this helps,
O.
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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Dan Farrell]

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:59:36 -0400
Ophidian <ophidian@ophidian.homeip.net> wrote:

> And yes, the 2GB RAM is probably 
> overkill since I've never actually taken it all that close to filling
> up RAM let alone swapping to disk.

Agreed, of course, but one nice thing about extra ram that it might be
pertinent to mention is that it can be used to cache and significantly
reduce hard drive I/O once the cache is primed.
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Re: [gentoo-user] [ot] building a machine for Gentoo

[Dan Farrell]

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:32:49 +0930
Iain Buchanan <iaindb@netspace.net.au> wrote:

> because KVM's are OS independent; they can get you into the BIOS or
> console; you can see boot messages; network doesn't need to be working

 Just to
> name a few benefits.  So yes, I agree if you're only interested in the
> machine once it's running, then don't waste the money, but if you need
> the other features they are still very useful.

It _is_ a huge pain to lug monitors around.  I find however that desk
space is also at a premium in my small apartiment, so that's a
consideration for me.  And of course
> (even though it's called a network, sometimes it doesn't ;) 
that's another huge pain.  but all-in-all, I find switching between
computers vastly less efficient (once they're up) than multiple X
windows or virtual terminals. 

I think the big difference between our perspectives is that my other
computers arent backups, they do other things and therefore are in that
functioning state much of the time.  If they were backups I probably
wouldn't be nearly as comfortable getting at them with the primary
desktop as when they're servers making that desktop function.
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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Julian Simioni]

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On 7/9/07, Dan Farrell <dan@spore.ath.cx> wrote:
>
> Agreed, of course, but one nice thing about extra ram that it might be
> pertinent to mention is that it can be used to cache and significantly
> reduce hard drive I/O once the cache is primed.


I just upgraded my system from 1GB to 2GB of DDR2 so I can get my occasional
BF2 fix in Vista, and I honestly have noticed no difference in speed while
using Gentoo, which is by far my primary OS. I'm sure a detailed analysis
would show at least slight improvement in some cases, but it probably isn't
worth the upgrade. That said, 1GB of DDR2 can be had for under ~50USD
depending on what speed and latency you desire.

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[gentoo-user] Re: KVM switch

[Alexander Skwar]

· b.n. <brullonulla@gmail.com>:

> Didn't look on WP because from the sentence "KVM Switch -- DLink" wasn't 
> at all clear that KVM switch was a common word -KVM could have been a 
> trademark etc.

At least the German WP has a word definition page for "KVM" 
as well -> <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/KVM>. Same for the
English WP, as I just see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KVM

:-)

Alexander Skwar
-- 
I never made a mistake in my life.  I thought I did once, but I was wrong.
                -- Lucy Van Pelt


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Re: [gentoo-user] [ot] building a machine for Gentoo

[Philip Webb]

070709 Dan Farrell wrote:
> 070710 Iain Buchanan <iaindb@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>> KVM's are OS independent; they can get you into the BIOS or console;
>> you can see boot messages; network doesn't need to be working
>> even though it's called a network, sometimes it doesn't ;) 
> that's another huge pain.
> but all-in-all, I find switching between computers vastly less efficient
> (once they're up) than multiple X windows or virtual terminals. 
> the big difference between our perspectives is
> that my other computers arent backups, they do other things
> & therefore are in that functioning state much of the time.
> If they were backups I probably wouldn't be nearly as comfortable
> getting at them with the primary desktop
> as when they're servers making that desktop function.

My set-up is very simple: a front-line machine I use all the time
& an older machine which is intended as an alternative in an emergency,
if the regular machine runs into a problem (hardware or software).
For this to work, I need to have a fairly upto-date version of files
in the back-up machine (without going off-site to get a back-up CD/DVD).
Therefore, I need to wake up the 2nd machine every few months or more often
& changing the connections in the backs of the boxes is a pain,
so being able to flip a switch to use the controls with the other box
is very attractive.  A network requires other connections (which cost CAD),
besides learning how to set it up & secure it from possible malware
when either machine is connected to the Internet.
The KVM switch mentioned costs  CAD 32  =  USD 30 .

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Philip Webb]

070709 Philip Webb wrote:
> I'm planning to build a 3rd machine later this summer.

Thanks for all the advice & suggestions, which I have recorded
& will consider carefully before actually buying stuff in August.
Any further thoughts from anyone wb added gratefully to the file.
I suspect Gentoo users are more likely to build their own machines.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Dan Farrell]

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:35:22 -0700
"Julian Simioni" <spectre256@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 7/9/07, Dan Farrell <dan@spore.ath.cx> wrote:
> >
> > Agreed, of course, but one nice thing about extra ram that it might
> > be pertinent to mention is that it can be used to cache and
> > significantly reduce hard drive I/O once the cache is primed.
> 
> 
> I just upgraded my system from 1GB to 2GB of DDR2 ... [ & ] I honestly
> have noticed no difference in speed while using Gentoo, which is by
> far my primary OS. I'm sure a detailed analysis would show at least
> slight improvement in some cases, but it probably isn't worth the
> upgrade.

Yeah, my desktop (up 23 days, so cache has had time to fill) has only
managed to cache about half a gig worth of stuff, leaving 200 megs or
thereabouts unused.  . Most instances of applications I run are the same
hd data, like a thousand firefoxes, xterms, mail, etc.  So I think the
'significant' part only kicks in if you run lots of different
programs.  I wouldn't expect my desktop to go any faster either, but I
would expect a little speedup if I were running a heavier window
manager or a full-blown DE like gnome or kde.  

It might make a bigger difference if you were running 3d games or
something, I guess.  

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Re: [gentoo-user] [ot] building a machine for Gentoo

[Dan Farrell]

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:49:42 -0400
Philip Webb <purslow@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> 070709 Dan Farrell wrote:
> > 070710 Iain Buchanan <iaindb@netspace.net.au> wrote:
> >> KVM's are OS independent; they can get you into the BIOS or
> >> console; you can see boot messages; network doesn't need to be
> >> working even though it's called a network, sometimes it doesn't ;) 
> > that's another huge pain.
> > but all-in-all, I find switching between computers vastly less
> > efficient (once they're up) than multiple X windows or virtual
> > terminals. the big difference between our perspectives is
> > that my other computers arent backups, they do other things
> > & therefore are in that functioning state much of the time.
> > If they were backups I probably wouldn't be nearly as comfortable
> > getting at them with the primary desktop
> > as when they're servers making that desktop function.
> 
> My set-up is very simple: a front-line machine I use all the time
> & an older machine which is intended as an alternative in an
> emergency, if the regular machine runs into a problem (hardware or
> software). For this to work, I need to have a fairly upto-date
> version of files in the back-up machine (without going off-site to
> get a back-up CD/DVD). Therefore, I need to wake up the 2nd machine
> every few months or more often & changing the connections in the
> backs of the boxes is a pain, so being able to flip a switch to use
> the controls with the other box is very attractive.  A network
> requires other connections (which cost CAD), besides learning how to
> set it up & secure it from possible malware when either machine is
> connected to the Internet. The KVM switch mentioned costs  CAD 32  =
> USD 30 .
> 
The celeron 466 gets pushed into the closet? 
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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Dale]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2216 bytes --]

Dan Farrell wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:35:22 -0700
> "Julian Simioni" <spectre256@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> On 7/9/07, Dan Farrell <dan@spore.ath.cx> wrote:
>>     
>>> Agreed, of course, but one nice thing about extra ram that it might
>>> be pertinent to mention is that it can be used to cache and
>>> significantly reduce hard drive I/O once the cache is primed.
>>>       
>> I just upgraded my system from 1GB to 2GB of DDR2 ... [ & ] I honestly
>> have noticed no difference in speed while using Gentoo, which is by
>> far my primary OS. I'm sure a detailed analysis would show at least
>> slight improvement in some cases, but it probably isn't worth the
>> upgrade.
>>     
>
> Yeah, my desktop (up 23 days, so cache has had time to fill) has only
> managed to cache about half a gig worth of stuff, leaving 200 megs or
> thereabouts unused.  . Most instances of applications I run are the same
> hd data, like a thousand firefoxes, xterms, mail, etc.  So I think the
> 'significant' part only kicks in if you run lots of different
> programs.  I wouldn't expect my desktop to go any faster either, but I
> would expect a little speedup if I were running a heavier window
> manager or a full-blown DE like gnome or kde.  
>
> It might make a bigger difference if you were running 3d games or
> something, I guess.  
>
>   

I have had 1Gb on here for a long time and usually updatedb fills up
cache but other than that I don't use it all.  I did once when I opened
about 400 pics with Gimp though.  I use KDE and I do quite a bit of pic
stuff as far as storing them.  I wouldn't spend the extra money on any
more memory for mine.  I just don't see where any more would do any
good.  Like others I think it depends on what you are doing.  If you do
video editing or CAD or something then you may can use the extra memory
then.  Other than that, just watch what is being used and get more when
you need it.

Oh, I run folding on here a lot and I get bigger units to work on since
I have more ram.  My other rigs with a lot less memory get smaller
units.  That helps some I guess.

Let us know what you get in the end and how things work out.  Show us
some speed tests or something.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

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Re: [gentoo-user] building a machine for Gentoo

[Tim Allingham]

I've recently moved from 1GB to 2GB of RAM, and have noticed a huge
difference for my usage, though I do lean quite heavily on it so for
most users it doesn't create much of a difference.

While running with 1GB I generally found I was sitting around 70-80%
utilisation, running a dual-head setup with Beryl, generally with 5-7
apps open (oOo, Opera, Nvu, Gnucash, X-chat etc).  I would often emerge
programs while these were running, with 1GB it would create regular
"stutters" as the RAM filled up, with 2GB I rarely notice a slowdown at
all.

Tim Allingham
tim@datafirst-it.com.au
http://www.datafirst-it.com.au

On Tue, 2007-07-10 at 23:31 -0500, Dale wrote:
> Dan Farrell wrote: 
> > On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:35:22 -0700
> > "Julian Simioni" <spectre256@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >   
> > > On 7/9/07, Dan Farrell <dan@spore.ath.cx> wrote:
> > >     
> > > > Agreed, of course, but one nice thing about extra ram that it might
> > > > be pertinent to mention is that it can be used to cache and
> > > > significantly reduce hard drive I/O once the cache is primed.
> > > >       
> > > I just upgraded my system from 1GB to 2GB of DDR2 ... [ & ] I honestly
> > > have noticed no difference in speed while using Gentoo, which is by
> > > far my primary OS. I'm sure a detailed analysis would show at least
> > > slight improvement in some cases, but it probably isn't worth the
> > > upgrade.
> > >     
> > 
> > Yeah, my desktop (up 23 days, so cache has had time to fill) has only
> > managed to cache about half a gig worth of stuff, leaving 200 megs or
> > thereabouts unused.  . Most instances of applications I run are the same
> > hd data, like a thousand firefoxes, xterms, mail, etc.  So I think the
> > 'significant' part only kicks in if you run lots of different
> > programs.  I wouldn't expect my desktop to go any faster either, but I
> > would expect a little speedup if I were running a heavier window
> > manager or a full-blown DE like gnome or kde.  
> > 
> > It might make a bigger difference if you were running 3d games or
> > something, I guess.  
> > 
> >   
> 
> I have had 1Gb on here for a long time and usually updatedb fills up
> cache but other than that I don't use it all.  I did once when I
> opened about 400 pics with Gimp though.  I use KDE and I do quite a
> bit of pic stuff as far as storing them.  I wouldn't spend the extra
> money on any more memory for mine.  I just don't see where any more
> would do any good.  Like others I think it depends on what you are
> doing.  If you do video editing or CAD or something then you may can
> use the extra memory then.  Other than that, just watch what is being
> used and get more when you need it.
> 
> Oh, I run folding on here a lot and I get bigger units to work on
> since I have more ram.  My other rigs with a lot less memory get
> smaller units.  That helps some I guess.
> 
> Let us know what you get in the end and how things work out.  Show us
> some speed tests or something.  ;-)
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)

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