[gentoo-user] Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350] problems on AMD64

[gentoo-user] Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350] problems on AMD64

[Jules Colding]

Hi,

I have the above mentioned sound card installed in my dual 252 Opteron.
I have enabled ALSA and OSS emulation in the kernel and everything is
compiled in, no alsa modules. The card is correctly detected on boot-up
and apparently activated. 

Everything seems to be configured correctly according to the alsa guide.
The problem is that I am only hearing cyclically repeating clicks, with
weak static noise in-between, when I am trying to play music. I have a
set of analog 2.1 speakers connected to the analog output jack on the
card.

Any ideas why this doesn't work?


Thanks,
  jules

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Re: [gentoo-user] Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350] problems on AMD64

[Bob Sanders]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 18:12:02 +0200
Jules Colding <colding@omesc.com> wrote:

 
> I have the above mentioned sound card installed in my dual 252 Opteron.
> I have enabled ALSA and OSS emulation in the kernel and everything is
> compiled in, no alsa modules. The card is correctly detected on boot-up
> and apparently activated. 
> i

OSS should not be selected in the kernel.  Only alsa.  For Oss, you need 
to emerge -  media-libs/alsa-oss

> Everything seems to be configured correctly according to the alsa guide.
> The problem is that I am only hearing cyclically repeating clicks, with
> weak static noise in-between, when I am trying to play music. I have a
> set of analog 2.1 speakers connected to the analog output jack on the
> card.
> 

Repeating clicks is usually an indication of empty audio buffers.  It means
your system can't keep the sound card supplied with data.  You might be
able to get some help by making your kernel preemptible -

  Symbol: PREEMPT [=y]                                                                                     x  
    Prompt: Preemptible Kernel                                                                               x  
    Defined at arch/x86_64/Kconfig:210                                                                     x  
    Location:                                                                                              x  
      -> Processor type and features     

The weak static noise is digital garbage being picked up by the SB.  If it's
not already, move it to the last PCI slot on the bus - as far away from the
other cards and cpu as possible.

> Any ideas why this doesn't work?
> 

SB Audigy cards aren't the best sounding cards out there.  They are OK, but
if you mainly want music, look elsewhere.  If you're mainly interested in games
they work fine.

Bob
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Re: [gentoo-user] Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350] problems on AMD64

[Jules Colding]

On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 18:28 -0700, Bob Sanders wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 18:12:02 +0200
> Jules Colding <colding@omesc.com> wrote:
> 
>  
> > I have the above mentioned sound card installed in my dual 252 Opteron.
> > I have enabled ALSA and OSS emulation in the kernel and everything is
> > compiled in, no alsa modules. The card is correctly detected on boot-up
> > and apparently activated. 
> > i
> 
> OSS should not be selected in the kernel.  Only alsa.  For Oss, you need 
> to emerge -  media-libs/alsa-oss

I did not select OSS, only the ALSA emulation option. I am now trying
media-sound/alsa-driver 1.0.9b with the same results. 


> > Everything seems to be configured correctly according to the alsa guide.
> > The problem is that I am only hearing cyclically repeating clicks, with
> > weak static noise in-between, when I am trying to play music. I have a
> > set of analog 2.1 speakers connected to the analog output jack on the
> > card.
> > 
> 
> Repeating clicks is usually an indication of empty audio buffers.  It means
> your system can't keep the sound card supplied with data.  You might be
> able to get some help by making your kernel preemptible -

If the kernel isn't able to keep the audio buffers full, isn't that
something that would only happen with a slow system? I have a dual
Opteron 252 so I didn't thought that preemptible was needed for my
system. Anyway, I'll try it.

>   Symbol: PREEMPT [=y]                                                                                     x  
>     Prompt: Preemptible Kernel                                                                               x  
>     Defined at arch/x86_64/Kconfig:210                                                                     x  
>     Location:                                                                                              x  
>       -> Processor type and features     
> 
> The weak static noise is digital garbage being picked up by the SB.  If it's
> not already, move it to the last PCI slot on the bus - as far away from the
> other cards and cpu as possible.

It is in the last slot I'm afraid...

> > Any ideas why this doesn't work?
> > 
> 
> SB Audigy cards aren't the best sounding cards out there.  They are OK, but
> if you mainly want music, look elsewhere.  If you're mainly interested in games
> they work fine.


Thanks,
  jules


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Re: [gentoo-user] Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350] problems on AMD64

[Jules Colding]

On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 18:28 -0700, Bob Sanders wrote:
> SB Audigy cards aren't the best sounding cards out there.  They are OK, but
> if you mainly want music, look elsewhere.  If you're mainly interested in games
> they work fine.

BTW: Which AMD64-compliant card do you recommend for music? 

Thanks,
  jules


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Re: [gentoo-user] Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350] problems on AMD64

[Jules Colding]

On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 18:28 -0700, Bob Sanders wrote:
> Repeating clicks is usually an indication of empty audio buffers.  It means
> your system can't keep the sound card supplied with data.  You might be
> able to get some help by making your kernel preemptible -
> 
>   Symbol: PREEMPT [=y]                                                                                     x  
>     Prompt: Preemptible Kernel                                                                               x  
>     Defined at arch/x86_64/Kconfig:210                                                                     x  
>     Location:                                                                                              x  
>       -> Processor type and features     

Tried that. No success. Tried disabling ACPI too, same result (noise and
clicks).

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Re: [gentoo-user] Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350] problems on AMD64

[Bob Sanders]

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 14:00:34 +0200
Jules Colding <colding@omesc.com> wrote:


> 
> Tried that. No success. Tried disabling ACPI too, same result (noise and
> clicks).
> 

Given you have am amd64 based machine, I'm pretty surprised at the noise.
What else is on the PCI bus?

As to cards, it doesn't need to be amd64 specific, if alsa supports it, they
will work.  For decent sound most cards with an envy24 controller and 24-bit
DACs are pretty good.  You;ll use more cpu to run them, but nothing significant.
One card is M-Audio's Revolution 7.1.

Another I like to run the Headroom's Bitwise headphone amp.  It hooks up via USB.
While the DAC is only 16-bit, it does a really grest job.  Plus it's outside the box.

Beware USB attached sound cards, while some work, many require firmware downloads
to function.

Bob
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Re: [gentoo-user] Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350] problems on AMD64

[Jules Colding]

On Sat, 2005-07-23 at 09:13 -0700, Bob Sanders wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 14:00:34 +0200
> Jules Colding <colding@omesc.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > Tried that. No success. Tried disabling ACPI too, same result (noise and
> > clicks).
> > 
> 
> Given you have am amd64 based machine, I'm pretty surprised at the noise.
> What else is on the PCI bus?

omc-2 init.d # lspci
0000:00:06.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 PCI (rev 07)
0000:00:07.0 ISA bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 LPC (rev 05)
0000:00:07.1 IDE interface: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 IDE (rev 03)
0000:00:07.2 SMBus: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 SMBus 2.0 (rev 02)
0000:00:07.3 Bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 ACPI (rev 05)
0000:00:0a.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge (rev 12)
0000:00:0a.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01)
0000:00:0b.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge (rev 12)
0000:00:0b.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01)
0000:00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration
0000:00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map
0000:00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller
0000:00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control
0000:00:19.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration
0000:00:19.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map
0000:00:19.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller
0000:00:19.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control
0000:01:06.0 PCI bridge: IBM PCI-X to PCI-X Bridge (rev 02)
0000:02:00.0 RAID bus controller: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic MegaRAID (rev 02)
0000:03:09.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5703X Gigabit Ethernet (rev 02)
0000:04:00.0 USB Controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 USB (rev 0b)
0000:04:00.1 USB Controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 USB (rev 0b)
0000:04:0a.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Audigy (rev 04)
0000:04:0a.1 Input device controller: Creative Labs SB Audigy MIDI/Game port (rev 04)
0000:04:0a.2 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Creative Labs SB Audigy FireWire Port (rev 04)
0000:06:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV40GL [Quadro FX 4000] (rev a1)



> As to cards, it doesn't need to be amd64 specific, if alsa supports it, they
> will work.  For decent sound most cards with an envy24 controller and 24-bit
> DACs are pretty good.  You;ll use more cpu to run them, but nothing significant.
> One card is M-Audio's Revolution 7.1.
> 
> Another I like to run the Headroom's Bitwise headphone amp.  It hooks up via USB.
> While the DAC is only 16-bit, it does a really grest job.  Plus it's outside the box.
> 
> Beware USB attached sound cards, while some work, many require firmware downloads
> to function.

Thank you for your advise. I got sound working by disabling ALSA and
using OSS instead. I think this is an ALSA AMD64 issue.

Regards,
  jules



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Re: [gentoo-user] Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350] problems on AMD64

[Bob Sanders]

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:51:53 +0200
Jules Colding <colding@omesc.com> wrote:


> Thank you for your advise. I got sound working by disabling ALSA and
> using OSS instead. I think this is an ALSA AMD64 issue.
> 

No, it's not.  The reason I can say that is I have a 2P Opteron with the same chipset as
your system and a SB Audigy 2.  Running alsa causes no problems.  It's either a hardware
issue or a kernel issue.

At some point, the problem will need resolution as kernel OSS is going away.  But for now
I'm glad you have it working.

Bob
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Re: [gentoo-user] Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350] problems on AMD64

[Jules Colding]

On Sat, 2005-07-23 at 12:08 -0700, Bob Sanders wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:51:53 +0200
> Jules Colding <colding@omesc.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for your advise. I got sound working by disabling ALSA and
> > using OSS instead. I think this is an ALSA AMD64 issue.
> > 
> 
> No, it's not.  The reason I can say that is I have a 2P Opteron with the same chipset as
> your system and a SB Audigy 2.  Running alsa causes no problems.  It's either a hardware
> issue or a kernel issue.

Obviously. The sound works perfect under XP with Creative drivers and
with the deprecated OSS drivers, so we seems to be left with "some"
kernel issue. Anyway, I have filed a detailed bug at alsa-project and I
hope it will help them to eventually track is down.


> At some point, the problem will need resolution as kernel OSS is going away.  

Yes.

> But for now I'm glad you have it working.


Thanks,
  jules


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[gentoo-user] Re: Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350] problems on AMD64

[Daniel Vrcic]

* Bob Sanders <rmsand@concentric.net> [05-07-30 01:20]:
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:51:53 +0200
> Jules Colding <colding@omesc.com> wrote:
> > Thank you for your advise. I got sound working by disabling ALSA and
> > using OSS instead. I think this is an ALSA AMD64 issue.
...
> At some point, the problem will need resolution as kernel OSS is going
> away. But for now I'm glad you have it working.

I'm aware of the fact that OSS is deprecated and that it will be
removed, but in this case I don't like that fact. Why? I have old SB
Live! card, based on emu10k1 chip too, and I think that emu10k1 kernel
driver gives better sound than ALSA driver. I've noticed that especially
with bass lines.

I also like feature of configuring internal routes of emu10k1 chip with
emu tools (I can capture TV program and listen music in the same time)
and occasional front/rear channel swapping (sound on the rear channel
is generated by the I2S codec - better one, while the front one is
generated with analog AC97 codec). 

Ok, I must admit I haven't played with ALSA too much so my question
would be is this possible with ALSA, especially front/rear inverting?

TIA!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350] problems on AMD64

[Bob Sanders]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 22:39:17 +0200
Daniel Vrcic <daniel.vrcic@si.htnet.hr> wrote:


> I'm aware of the fact that OSS is deprecated and that it will be
> removed, but in this case I don't like that fact. Why? I have old SB
> Live! card, based on emu10k1 chip too, and I think that emu10k1 kernel
> driver gives better sound than ALSA driver. I've noticed that especially
> with bass lines.
>

I wouldn't doubt that as SB was initially pretty reluctant to work with
the open source developers.

But that card was a nightmare load on the system - 5 IRQs and 2 DMA channels
consumed, as I recall.  It has wreaked havoc on many a system.
 
> I also like feature of configuring internal routes of emu10k1 chip with
> emu tools (I can capture TV program and listen music in the same time)
> and occasional front/rear channel swapping (sound on the rear channel
> is generated by the I2S codec - better one, while the front one is
> generated with analog AC97 codec). 
>

Any card with hardware mixing is a great thing.
 
> Ok, I must admit I haven't played with ALSA too much so my question
> would be is this possible with ALSA, especially front/rear inverting?
>

Yes, but I've not done more than run a few things at the same time, and none
front/rear - I only have a 2.1 system.  However, if you use KDE and ARTS, 
it'll interfere.  Linux is not as clean as WinXX nor IRIX in regards to sound.
They are getting there.  While ALSA with dmix will allow the mixing, you'll need
to spend time setting it up.  It might be more benefical for you to combine ALSA 
with JACK - 

[ I] media-sound/jack-audio-connection-kit (0.99.0-r1):  A low-latency audio server

But not every application works with JACK.  So there are some helpers, but it
still doesn't cover everything.

If you have esearch just do an - esearch -Sc jack
 
Bob
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[gentoo-user] Re: [FIXED] Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350] problems on AMD64

[Jules Colding]

On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 18:12 +0200, Jules Colding wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have the above mentioned sound card installed in my dual 252 Opteron.
> I have enabled ALSA and OSS emulation in the kernel and everything is
> compiled in, no alsa modules. The card is correctly detected on boot-up
> and apparently activated. 
> 
> Everything seems to be configured correctly according to the alsa guide.
> The problem is that I am only hearing cyclically repeating clicks, with
> weak static noise in-between, when I am trying to play music. I have a
> set of analog 2.1 speakers connected to the analog output jack on the
> card.
> 
> Any ideas why this doesn't work?

OK, I now have sound.

The solution? Disable ALSA, enable OSS. Not exactly what I had in mind,
but now I can play music.

Best regards,
  jules


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