[gentoo-user] Esperanto locale

[gentoo-user] Esperanto locale

[Pupeno]

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I'm reading here[1] that you can specify the locales to build with glibc. So 
far, I specified:
en_US/ISO-8859-1
en_US.UTF-8/UTF-8
es_AR/ISO-8859-1
es_AR.UTF-8/UTF-8
es_ES/ISO-8859-1
es_ES.UTF-8/UTF-8
But, how do I specify a locale for Esperanto/UTF-8 ?
Thanks.
- -- 
Pupeno: pupeno@pupeno.com - http://www.pupeno.com

[1] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6
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[gentoo-user] Re: Esperanto locale

[Georgi Georgiev]

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:09:49 -0300, Pupeno wrote:

> I'm reading here[1] that you can specify the locales to build with glibc.
> So far, I specified:
> en_US/ISO-8859-1
> en_US.UTF-8/UTF-8
> es_AR/ISO-8859-1
> es_AR.UTF-8/UTF-8
> es_ES/ISO-8859-1
> es_ES.UTF-8/UTF-8
> But, how do I specify a locale for Esperanto/UTF-8 ? Thanks.

Is there such a thing? I see some references (after googling) to an eo_EO
locale, but it is not mentioned in ${S}/localedata/SUPPORTED of the glibc
package.

-- 
 >   Georgi Georgiev    > All good ideas look like bad ideas to         >
<     chutz@gg3.net    <  those who are losers. -- Dilbert             <
 >  +81(90)6266-1163    >                                               >



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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Esperanto locale

[Pupeno]

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Je Lundo Decembro 6 2004 20:57, Georgi Georgiev skribis:
> On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:09:49 -0300, Pupeno wrote:
> > I'm reading here[1] that you can specify the locales to build with glibc.
> > So far, I specified:
> > en_US/ISO-8859-1
> > en_US.UTF-8/UTF-8
> > es_AR/ISO-8859-1
> > es_AR.UTF-8/UTF-8
> > es_ES/ISO-8859-1
> > es_ES.UTF-8/UTF-8
> > But, how do I specify a locale for Esperanto/UTF-8 ? Thanks.
>
> Is there such a thing?
I don't know :(

> I see some references (after googling) to an eo_EO 
> locale, but it is not mentioned in ${S}/localedata/SUPPORTED of the glibc
> package.
oh, I see. Thanks.
- -- 
Pupeno: pupeno@pupeno.com - http://www.pupeno.com
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Esperanto locale

[Shawn]

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Isn't Esperanto a failed attempt at a standardized common language for
all European languages? Do you really have need for it?

Frankly, there already is a common language for all of Europe. ENGLISH!

*ducks*

On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 22:22 -0300, Pupeno wrote:
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> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Je Lundo Decembro 6 2004 20:57, Georgi Georgiev skribis:
> > On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:09:49 -0300, Pupeno wrote:
> > > I'm reading here[1] that you can specify the locales to build with glibc.
> > > So far, I specified:
> > > en_US/ISO-8859-1
> > > en_US.UTF-8/UTF-8
> > > es_AR/ISO-8859-1
> > > es_AR.UTF-8/UTF-8
> > > es_ES/ISO-8859-1
> > > es_ES.UTF-8/UTF-8
> > > But, how do I specify a locale for Esperanto/UTF-8 ? Thanks.
> >
> > Is there such a thing?
> I don't know :(
> 
> > I see some references (after googling) to an eo_EO 
> > locale, but it is not mentioned in ${S}/localedata/SUPPORTED of the glibc
> > package.
> oh, I see. Thanks.
> - -- 


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Esperanto locale

[Pupeno]

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Why there's always someone that say this when you mention Esperanto ?
1) It's not an attempt at standarizing common languages for Europe, but an 
attemp to create a common language for the world.
2) I DO have a need for it because I use it, I write/read/speak it.
3) It didn't fail. A language like this cannot be expected to be spoken for 
day to night, but it has survived more than 100 years (although The Soviet 
Union, The Nazi goverment, The Sadam Husein goverment and a lot of other 
military and facist goverments did the best to kill as much esperantists as 
possible), it is spoken by 2 million people worldwide and the number is 
increasing.

Je Mardo Decembro 7 2004 00:31, Shawn skribis:
> Isn't Esperanto a failed attempt at a standardized common language for
> all European languages? Do you really have need for it?
>
> Frankly, there already is a common language for all of Europe. ENGLISH!
>
> *ducks*
>
> On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 22:22 -0300, Pupeno wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Je Lundo Decembro 6 2004 20:57, Georgi Georgiev skribis:
> > > On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:09:49 -0300, Pupeno wrote:
> > > > I'm reading here[1] that you can specify the locales to build with
> > > > glibc. So far, I specified:
> > > > en_US/ISO-8859-1
> > > > en_US.UTF-8/UTF-8
> > > > es_AR/ISO-8859-1
> > > > es_AR.UTF-8/UTF-8
> > > > es_ES/ISO-8859-1
> > > > es_ES.UTF-8/UTF-8
> > > > But, how do I specify a locale for Esperanto/UTF-8 ? Thanks.
> > >
> > > Is there such a thing?
> >
> > I don't know :(
> >
> > > I see some references (after googling) to an eo_EO
> > > locale, but it is not mentioned in ${S}/localedata/SUPPORTED of the
> > > glibc package.
> >
> > oh, I see. Thanks.
> > - --

- -- 
Pupeno: pupeno@pupeno.com - http://www.pupeno.com
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Esperanto locale

[purslow]

041207 Pupeno wrote:
> Je Mardo Decembro 7 2004 00:31, Shawn skribis:
>> Isn't Esperanto a failed attempt at a standardized common language
>> for all European languages? Do you really have need for it?
>> Frankly, there already is a common language for all of Europe. ENGLISH!
>> *ducks*
> Why there's always someone that say this when you mention Esperanto ?
> 1) It's not an attempt at standarizing common languages for Europe,
> but an attempt to create a common language for the world.
> 2) I DO have a need for it because I use it, I write/read/speak it.
> 3) It didn't fail.
> A language like this cannot be expected to be spoken for day to night,
> but it has survived more than 100 years,
> it is spoken by 2 million people worldwide and the number is increasing.

this is getting a bit OT, so first AFAIK (mi povas vidi),
there is no Esperanto locale: you have to adapt one from another language.
i explored this earlier in the year & found
(1) you can't input Esperanto into a terminal,
but UTF-8 terminals (Mlterm, Uxterm) can display it,
so you can do greps, if you need to;
(2) you can easily set up Vim to use Esperanto;
(3) you can get Open Office to handle it with a bit more work.

as for use, i've been using it to read the Old Testament of the Bible,
of which there is an excellent translation by Ludwig Zamenhof himself
(he created Esperanto in his mid-20s -- a typical Gentoo age -- c 1887 ),
which is much clearer to read than the usual English versions.

my ancestors spoke Welsh & Estonian & i read Ancient Greek & Latin,
so the more European languages the better, i'ld say (grin).

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Esperanto locale

[Pupeno]

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Saluton Mardo,

Je Mardo Decembro 7 2004 09:08, purslow@sympatico.ca skribis:
> there is no Esperanto locale: you have to adapt one from another language.
Can you show me how to do it ? some URL or something like that ?

Dankon.
- -- 
Pupeno: pupeno@pupeno.com - http://www.pupeno.com
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Esperanto locale

[Jeff Clough]

On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 09:24 -0300, Pupeno wrote:
> > there is no Esperanto locale: you have to adapt one from another language.
> Can you show me how to do it ? some URL or something like that ?

Saluton,

Mia Esperanto estas ne tre bona, sed mi esperas vi estos kompreni min.
Mi ne skribis gxin por kvin jaroj. :)

Last week I had this misfortune of trying Mandrakelinux (Prior to the
discovery of the awe and perfection that is Gentoo.  All hail the OS.)
and noticed, with much glee that Esperanto was a supported locale.

Now, I know that we don't like RPMs, but here's a URL of the Mandrake
locales...

http://ftp.belnet.be/linux/mandrake/devel/testing/8.0/i586/locales-2.3.1-8mdk/

This is probably completely useless to anyone running Gentoo, *but* it
might be worth at least a look-see.  I'm not really recommending that
you install this thing for the following reasons...

1.  I have no idea if Mandrake and Gentoo handle locales in the same
way.
2.  I have no idea if RPM will break Gentoo.
3.  I have no idea if this *particular* RPM will break something.

You might be able to extract the files from the RPM, then manually put
them where you need to, but that's not something I've ever done.

Hope this helps!

-Jeff




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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Esperanto locale

[Jeff Clough]

On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 08:01 -0500, Jeff Clough wrote:

> You might be able to extract the files from the RPM, then manually put
> them where you need to, but that's not something I've ever done.

I can use rpm2targz to get at the files in the locale RPM.  A question
for the list:  Is installing it just a simple matter of copying the LC_*
files to /usr/share/locale and editing some file or is there more to it
than that?

-Jeff




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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Esperanto locale

[Markus Becker]

Hi!

Jeff Clough wrote:

> Saluton,
> 
> Mia Esperanto estas ne tre bona, sed mi esperas vi estos kompreni min.
> Mi ne skribis gxin por kvin jaroj. :)

The common-ness to nearly all roman languages is what makes esperanto
interesting. I have never, ever learned anything concerning esperanto,
but I do speak english and french and can understand some italian and
spanish. For me, esperanto seems to be some eclectic(sp?) mix of all
roman languages known to me.

And cleary, your first sentence translates to "my esperanto is not
very good, but I hope you can understand me" without the slightest
effort. Very nice. The second sentence might mean something like
"I have not written in it for several years" but I'm not quite sure...

There seems to be quite a bit of portuguese in it and I always thought
that portuguese is to other roman languages (Ita/Esp/Fr/Rom) what dutch 
is to german.

Markus

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Re: [gentoo-user] Esperanto locale

[Lluís Batlle i Rossell]

I think I used a locale from Debian, some time ago. Maybe the users of
distributions (Mandrake, as was already mentioned in this list) are the ones,
who take care of such locales.

In fact, I don't use them, even Esperanto is my most used language through
internet (and the computer).

This English text is some kind of translation of what I explain next:

----

Saluton!

Antaŭ longe mi uzis iun "locale" de Debian. Vi serĉu la debianajn arĥivojn.

En tiu ĉi listo alia homo parolis pri la "locale" de Mandrake.
Mi havas neniun nun en mia komputilo, sed la nomo kiun mi vidis estas "eo_XX",
ĉar ĝi fakte rilatas al neniu lando, nek al lando EO. :)

Pri la uzado de la lingvo en 'xterm'... mi uzas unikodan 'xterm', kaj ĝi montras
bonege la esperantajn literojn. Mi uzas la jenajn "xresources" (krom UTF-8-an
locale-on):

XTerm*reverseVideo:     true
XTerm*loginShell:       false
XTerm*saveLines:        3000
XTerm*font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--14-130-75-75-c-70-iso10646-1
XTerm*utf8:             true

Nu, mi uzas bone 'mutt' unikode... Fakte mi bezonas unikodon ĉar mi uzas ankaŭ
la rusan lingvon. Mi skribis dokumenteton pri tajpi la ĉapelitajn literojn per
sistemo X. Jen ligilo:
http://vicerveza/~viric/doc/X-lingvoj-howto

Krome, estas cetera informo al iaj agordoj de 'vim' kaj 'mutt' (ignoru de la
jena dokumento informon pri la klavaro):
http://vicerveza/~viric/doc/linukso-lingva-howto.html

Nun mi pardonpetas, sed miaopinie mi devas aldoni ian traduketon angle. Tamen
mia angla fuŝetas.. eble vi jam rimarkis ;)

On Mon, Dec 06, 2004 at 01:09:49PM -0300, Pupeno wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I'm reading here[1] that you can specify the locales to build with glibc. So 
> far, I specified:
> en_US/ISO-8859-1
> en_US.UTF-8/UTF-8
> es_AR/ISO-8859-1
> es_AR.UTF-8/UTF-8
> es_ES/ISO-8859-1
> es_ES.UTF-8/UTF-8
> But, how do I specify a locale for Esperanto/UTF-8 ?
> Thanks.
> - -- 
> Pupeno: pupeno@pupeno.com - http://www.pupeno.com
> 
> [1] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6
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> gVfa6Qs0QM8RkzSuE2MvJA==
> =kr8H
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------+----------------------+
| Lluís Batlle i Rossell                                |Tel.Olot. 972 26 71 24|
| Membre de [s3os] (www.s3os.net)                       |    BCN.  93 16 22 680|
| viric@jabber.org / ICQ# 9658637                       |    Mòb.  654 08 67 35|
| +info personal: http://vicerveza.homeunix.net/~viric/ | Santa Pau / Catalunya|
+-------------------------------------------------------+----------------------+
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   - Press any key to accept the license.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Esperanto locale

[Lluís Batlle i Rossell]

Well, that's a joke, isn't it? :)
English isn't my first language... I don't understand that "ducks". :)


On Mon, Dec 06, 2004 at 09:31:26PM -0600, Shawn wrote:
> Isn't Esperanto a failed attempt at a standardized common language for
> all European languages? Do you really have need for it?
> 
> Frankly, there already is a common language for all of Europe. ENGLISH!
> 
> *ducks*
> 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Esperanto locale

[Lluís Batlle i Rossell]

On Tue, Dec 07, 2004 at 08:13:05AM -0500, Jeff Clough wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 08:01 -0500, Jeff Clough wrote:
> 
> > You might be able to extract the files from the RPM, then manually put
> > them where you need to, but that's not something I've ever done.
> 
> I can use rpm2targz to get at the files in the locale RPM.  A question
> for the list:  Is installing it just a simple matter of copying the LC_*
> files to /usr/share/locale and editing some file or is there more to it
> than that?

Maybe you have to generate the locales, using command "localedef". That is,
something similar to:

localedef -f UTF-8 -i eo_XX eo_XX.UTF-8

But look at man page first. :)

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Esperanto locale

[Lluís Batlle i Rossell]

On Tue, Dec 07, 2004 at 07:08:46AM -0500, purslow@sympatico.ca wrote:
> (1) you can't input Esperanto into a terminal,
> but UTF-8 terminals (Mlterm, Uxterm) can display it,
> so you can do greps, if you need to;

'xterm' also works fine with unicode. Anyway... if you don't want multibyte
character support, you could use a "latin3" font, and use only English and
Esperanto (or any other language included in latin3).

If you want to use UTF-8 in your terminals, it's nice to have ncurses compiled
for wide_char support. I think that isn't still achived in gentoo ebuilds for
ncurses. Well, it's simple to compile ncurses that way, and install the widechar
libs. :)

> (2) you can easily set up Vim to use Esperanto;
How? Using 'X' is easy, having a configured X keyboard is easy... Maybe you talk
about some 'vim' include file, which translates from x-writting to "cxapelitan".
:)

> (3) you can get Open Office to handle it with a bit more work.
That's only about X.

Well, I give the link again, for configuring xorg for 'eo':
http://vicerveza.homeunix.net/~viric/doc/linukso-lingva-howto.html

> 
> as for use, i've been using it to read the Old Testament of the Bible,
> of which there is an excellent translation by Ludwig Zamenhof himself
> (he created Esperanto in his mid-20s -- a typical Gentoo age -- c 1887 ),
hahaha :)
> which is much clearer to read than the usual English versions.
> 
> my ancestors spoke Welsh & Estonian & i read Ancient Greek & Latin,
> so the more European languages the better, i'ld say (grin).
haha :)

-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------+----------------------+
| Lluís Batlle i Rossell                                |Tel.Olot. 972 26 71 24|
| Membre de [s3os] (www.s3os.net)                       |    BCN.  93 16 22 680|
| viric@jabber.org / ICQ# 9658637                       |    Mòb.  654 08 67 35|
| +info personal: http://vicerveza.homeunix.net/~viric/ | Santa Pau / Catalunya|
+-------------------------------------------------------+----------------------+
Cita:
   - Press any key to accept the license.
   (Dell Computers)

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Re: [gentoo-user] Esperanto locale

[Lluís Batlle i Rossell]

On Tue, Dec 07, 2004 at 08:05:36PM +0100, Lluís Batlle i Rossell wrote:
> Nu, mi uzas bone 'mutt' unikode... Fakte mi bezonas unikodon ĉar mi uzas ankaŭ
> la rusan lingvon. Mi skribis dokumenteton pri tajpi la ĉapelitajn literojn per
> sistemo X. Jen ligilo:
> http://vicerveza/~viric/doc/X-lingvoj-howto
Fek!
Mi misskribis. La reta nomo estas retloka! Jen la internacia:
http://vicerveza.homeunix.net/~viric/doc/X-lingvoj-howto

> Krome, estas cetera informo al iaj agordoj de 'vim' kaj 'mutt' (ignoru de la
> jena dokumento informon pri la klavaro):
> http://vicerveza/~viric/doc/linukso-lingva-howto.html
Internacia:
http://vicerveza.homeunix.net/~viric/doc/linukso-lingva-howto.html

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Esperanto locale

[Billy]

Lluís Batlle i Rossell wrote:
> Well, that's a joke, isn't it? :)
> English isn't my first language... I don't understand that "ducks". :)

*ducks*

would be MUD speak or IRC speak that conveys action. In the MUD world, 
the server would translate the phrase into an action such as :

You would see: JoeMudder ducks for cover!
I would see: You duck for cover, watch out!

In IRC, historically since MUD and IRC communities have shared the same 
people, one would type /me ducks, and the IRC server would translate 
that to

* IrCoP ducks

Since the communities were similar, the participants would infer the 
same meaning - even if it wasn't spelled out explicitly on the IRC 
server. The phrase would have "connotative meaning" in reference to MUD 
speak.

In email and Instant Messenger chat, the same facility is used, except 
the word is used by itself, or "bolded" by pre and suffixing the world 
with asterisks (*).

http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/m/MUD.html
http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/i/IRC.html


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