From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A91E1399CE for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 06:20:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8132814269; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 06:20:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gw2.antarean.org (gw2.antarean.org [141.105.125.208]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ED131420D for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 06:20:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gw2.antarean.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59FE6121398 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 06:18:07 +0000 () X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at antarean.org Received: from gw2.antarean.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (gw2.antarean.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5A3jizHJ0Mh5 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 06:18:06 +0000 (%Z) Received: from data.antarean.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gw2.antarean.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEEB121397 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 06:18:06 +0000 () Received: from andromeda.localnet (unknown [10.20.13.200]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by data.antarean.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 99CAB4C for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 08:19:52 +0200 (CEST) From: "J. Roeleveld" To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [WAY OT] wanna learn networking internals Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 08:20:41 +0200 Message-ID: <10247589.z6XutoYIel@andromeda> User-Agent: KMail/4.14.8 (Linux/4.0.5-gentoo; KDE/4.14.8; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: <55E766D0.90701@gmail.com> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Archives-Salt: 76ed453e-403e-4616-8bac-c04bf49c67de X-Archives-Hash: 1b60cbcfddadcad00eef1cb882616e59 On Thursday, September 03, 2015 01:16:47 AM James wrote: > Alan McKinnon gmail.com> writes: > > > Last, I suggest a parallel learning of C/C++ as it really helps > > > > ^this^, after the basics are fully mastered. > > > > netmasks make no sense at all until bitwise operators are fully > > understood. Even CIDR notation is not really obvious until you > > understand what languages like C do with the 32 bit words we call IP > > addresses. All x10 when IPv6 comes into play > > Huh. I find teaching networking, including the intricacies of advanced > protocol design, implementation and debugging, are far simpler if > folks know at least one programming language. Bit manipulations > are but one part of logic, sequential circuits timing and such > of the Computer Engineer's domain. In my experience, if folks read too > much, but do not play with some codes on actual hardware, it all becomes a > giant nebula. I guess I just like the practical side of these issues, to get > folks hooked on hardware. > > > How a serial port (rs_232) works and the putting ppp over that is very > keen for teaching networking. ymmv. You can also use a protocol analyzer to > see some cool things. Many codes are published and looking at how a > microprocessor handles basic packets is very stimulating and encouraging. > Too bad most kids now days do not get to work on embedded hardware and build > up an executive or state machine and send/recieve data over interfaces. > Granted I worked in the world where assembler was > king (embedded) and assembler folks learning C and tcp/ip were easily amazed > and happy to migrate from assembler to C. > > As Joost pointed out, I guess it really depends on the background of > the student. Being a hardware guy, I guess my focus is tainted.... > > So, fair enough, but how long (exactly what are the basics) do you > read before you go to the lab and play? Labs are always more fun > than classrooms, lectures and stuffy old farts.............(gotcha!) ? > > > cheers, > James If you want to base it on programming, I would recommend the following as well: http://beej.us/guide/bgnet/ -- Joost