[gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Helmut Jarausch]

Hi,

gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.8.4   requires systemd

sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.6                cannot coexist with systemd

but many packages depend on sys-auth/consolekit :

emerge -vpc sys-auth/consolekit  gives

   sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p20120320-r2 pulled in by:
     gnome-base/gnome-session-3.8.2.1-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
     gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
     kde-base/kdm-4.10.5 requires sys-auth/consolekit
     net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.8.2-r2 requires sys-auth/consolekit
     net-wireless/bluez-4.101-r5 requires sys-auth/consolekit
     sys-apps/accountsservice-0.6.34 requires sys-auth/consolekit
     sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2  
requires >=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam]
     sys-auth/polkit-0.111 requires sys-auth/consolekit[policykit]
     x11-apps/xdm-1.1.11-r3 requires sys-auth/consolekit
     x11-misc/slim-1.3.5-r2 requires sys-auth/consolekit


So, what to do? Obviously, I don't want an unbootable system.

How did you resolve this conflict?

Many thanks for a hint,
Helmut

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am Montag, 22. Juli 2013, 09:03:46 schrieb Helmut Jarausch:
> Hi,
> 
> gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.8.4   requires systemd
> 
> sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.6                cannot coexist with systemd
> 
> but many packages depend on sys-auth/consolekit :
> 
> emerge -vpc sys-auth/consolekit  gives
> 
>    sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p20120320-r2 pulled in by:
>      gnome-base/gnome-session-3.8.2.1-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>      gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>      kde-base/kdm-4.10.5 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>      net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.8.2-r2 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>      net-wireless/bluez-4.101-r5 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>      sys-apps/accountsservice-0.6.34 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>      sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2
> requires >=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam]
>      sys-auth/polkit-0.111 requires sys-auth/consolekit[policykit]
>      x11-apps/xdm-1.1.11-r3 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>      x11-misc/slim-1.3.5-r2 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> 
> 
> So, what to do? Obviously, I don't want an unbootable system.
> 
> How did you resolve this conflict?
> 
> Many thanks for a hint,
> Helmut

not using gnome.

Gnome decided to force systemd. 

-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Samuli Suominen]

On 22/07/13 10:03, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> Hi,
> How did you resolve this conflict?
>
> Many thanks for a hint,
> Helmut

As a maintainer of sys-auth/consolekit, and xfce-base/xfce4-meta I can 
assure you sys-auth/consolekit is not about to be removed and the 
support for systemd-logind will be appended to XFCE instead of replaced 
like in GNOME.

I'm trying to say, either migrate to systemd or pick another desktop 
with saner future plans like XFCE.

- Samuli

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Pandu Poluan]

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On Jul 22, 2013 6:34 PM, "Samuli Suominen" <ssuominen@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> On 22/07/13 10:03, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> How did you resolve this conflict?
>>
>> Many thanks for a hint,
>> Helmut
>
>
> As a maintainer of sys-auth/consolekit, and xfce-base/xfce4-meta I can
assure you sys-auth/consolekit is not about to be removed and the support
for systemd-logind will be appended to XFCE instead of replaced like in
GNOME.
>
> I'm trying to say, either migrate to systemd or pick another desktop with
saner future plans like XFCE.
>
> - Samuli
>

+1 for XFCE.

It's more similar to Gnome2 than Gnome3 itself :-)

Rgds,
--

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Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Philip Webb]

130722 Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.8.4   requires systemd
> sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.6                cannot coexist with systemd
> but many packages depend on sys-auth/consolekit :
> How did you resolve this conflict?

Don't use Gnome.  I've been using Fluxbox for years :
it's simple, highly configurable & quite adequate for everyday work ;
you can use apps from KDE or Xfce, as you please.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[András Csányi]

On 22 July 2013 15:35, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> 130722 Helmut Jarausch wrote:
>> gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.8.4   requires systemd
>> sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.6                cannot coexist with systemd
>> but many packages depend on sys-auth/consolekit :
>> How did you resolve this conflict?
>
> Don't use Gnome.  I've been using Fluxbox for years :
> it's simple, highly configurable & quite adequate for everyday work ;
> you can use apps from KDE or Xfce, as you please.

If somebody has to use gnome? For example, here is my girlfriend who
has a Gentoo system with Unity on her laptop. She uses Evolution on
daily basis. As I experienced not possible to install Evolution
without gnome USE flag. In this case what is the proper solution?

--
--  Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando)  -- http://sayusi.hu --
http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi
--  ""Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry!" - Cromwell

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Alan McKinnon]

On 22/07/2013 15:39, András Csányi wrote:
> On 22 July 2013 15:35, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>> 130722 Helmut Jarausch wrote:
>>> gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.8.4   requires systemd
>>> sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.6                cannot coexist with systemd
>>> but many packages depend on sys-auth/consolekit :
>>> How did you resolve this conflict?
>>
>> Don't use Gnome.  I've been using Fluxbox for years :
>> it's simple, highly configurable & quite adequate for everyday work ;
>> you can use apps from KDE or Xfce, as you please.
> 
> If somebody has to use gnome? For example, here is my girlfriend who
> has a Gentoo system with Unity on her laptop. She uses Evolution on
> daily basis. As I experienced not possible to install Evolution
> without gnome USE flag. In this case what is the proper solution?

USE="gnome" != install all of Gnome

It means to compile with Gnome support.

What Gnome packages does Evolution require, and do those deps pull in
systemd?

If no, there's no problem
If yes, either live with what portage wants to do or use a different
mail-client


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

ConsoleKit  is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the
packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd,
and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago.

Regards.

On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 2:03 AM, Helmut Jarausch
<jarausch@igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.8.4   requires systemd
>
> sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.6                cannot coexist with systemd
>
> but many packages depend on sys-auth/consolekit :
>
> emerge -vpc sys-auth/consolekit  gives
>
>   sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p20120320-r2 pulled in by:
>     gnome-base/gnome-session-3.8.2.1-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>     gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>     kde-base/kdm-4.10.5 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>     net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.8.2-r2 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>     net-wireless/bluez-4.101-r5 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>     sys-apps/accountsservice-0.6.34 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>     sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2 requires
>>=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam]
>     sys-auth/polkit-0.111 requires sys-auth/consolekit[policykit]
>     x11-apps/xdm-1.1.11-r3 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>     x11-misc/slim-1.3.5-r2 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>
>
> So, what to do? Obviously, I don't want an unbootable system.
>
> How did you resolve this conflict?
>
> Many thanks for a hint,
> Helmut



-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

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yeah, because it is so great to have that monster systemd on your box.
Because xml configs are awesome and binary logs even more and I always
wanted an init with builtin webbrowser. Security? bah, not needed.

So when do I have to install mysql to use it? How long until some crap ala
windows-registry is forced down my throat?



2013/7/22 Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com>

> ConsoleKit  is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the
> packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd,
> and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago.
>
> Regards.
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 2:03 AM, Helmut Jarausch
> <jarausch@igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.8.4   requires systemd
> >
> > sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.6                cannot coexist with systemd
> >
> > but many packages depend on sys-auth/consolekit :
> >
> > emerge -vpc sys-auth/consolekit  gives
> >
> >   sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p20120320-r2 pulled in by:
> >     gnome-base/gnome-session-3.8.2.1-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     kde-base/kdm-4.10.5 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.8.2-r2 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     net-wireless/bluez-4.101-r5 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     sys-apps/accountsservice-0.6.34 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2 requires
> >>=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam]
> >     sys-auth/polkit-0.111 requires sys-auth/consolekit[policykit]
> >     x11-apps/xdm-1.1.11-r3 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     x11-misc/slim-1.3.5-r2 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >
> >
> > So, what to do? Obviously, I don't want an unbootable system.
> >
> > How did you resolve this conflict?
> >
> > Many thanks for a hint,
> > Helmut
>
>
>
> --
> Canek Peláez Valdés
> Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Samuli Suominen]

On 22/07/13 18:02, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> ConsoleKit  is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the
> packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd,
> and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago.

It's how you look at it. I call it "mature" but you are right it won't 
get new features or such, only bugfixes to keep status quo. Some people 
call that "stable" :-)

[1] 
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/ConsoleKit/commit/?id=af75e100dc4d4fac2e1633aa134e40e390d38918

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Bruce Hill]

On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 09:35:22AM -0400, Philip Webb wrote:
> 130722 Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> > gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.8.4   requires systemd
> > sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.6                cannot coexist with systemd
> > but many packages depend on sys-auth/consolekit :
> > How did you resolve this conflict?
> 
> Don't use Gnome.  I've been using Fluxbox for years :
> it's simple, highly configurable & quite adequate for everyday work ;
> you can use apps from KDE or Xfce, as you please.

Sadly the GNU/Linux DEs are _way_ behind the rest of the software.

Been using Fluxbox since 2003, and very happy. I am presently trying Xfce
again for the upteenth time. ;)    Especially for computers to sell people who
need to be _free_ from proprietary OSes.

Thanks Samuli Suominen for your work!

Cheers,
Bruce
-- 
Happy Penguin Computers               >')
126 Fenco Drive                       ( \
Tupelo, MS 38801                       ^^
support@happypenguincomputers.com
662-269-2706 662-205-6424
http://happypenguincomputers.com/

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.                                                                                                                                                          
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?                                                                                                                                                                                        
A: Top-posting.                                                                                                                                                                                                                
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Michael Hampicke]

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Am 22.07.2013 17:02, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
> ConsoleKit  is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the
> packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd,
> and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago.
> 

Thanks, just purged consolekit from my system after setting
USE="-consolekit" and remerged the affected packages.


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Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

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maybe you should not just believe everything posted. Especially from a
systemd fanboi.


2013/7/22 Michael Hampicke <mh@hadt.biz>

> Am 22.07.2013 17:02, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
> > ConsoleKit  is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the
> > packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd,
> > and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago.
> >
>
> Thanks, just purged consolekit from my system after setting
> USE="-consolekit" and remerged the affected packages.
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Mark David Dumlao]

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This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind ebuild
(wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally intended.

But yeah you usually stay away from unmaintained upstreams.

On Jul 22, 2013 11:03 PM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ConsoleKit  is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the
> packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd,
> and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago.
>
> Regards.
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 2:03 AM, Helmut Jarausch
> <jarausch@igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.8.4   requires systemd
> >
> > sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.6                cannot coexist with systemd
> >
> > but many packages depend on sys-auth/consolekit :
> >
> > emerge -vpc sys-auth/consolekit  gives
> >
> >   sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p20120320-r2 pulled in by:
> >     gnome-base/gnome-session-3.8.2.1-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     kde-base/kdm-4.10.5 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.8.2-r2 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     net-wireless/bluez-4.101-r5 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     sys-apps/accountsservice-0.6.34 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2 requires
> >>=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam]
> >     sys-auth/polkit-0.111 requires sys-auth/consolekit[policykit]
> >     x11-apps/xdm-1.1.11-r3 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >     x11-misc/slim-1.3.5-r2 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> >
> >
> > So, what to do? Obviously, I don't want an unbootable system.
> >
> > How did you resolve this conflict?
> >
> > Many thanks for a hint,
> > Helmut
>
>
>
> --
> Canek Peláez Valdés
> Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Mark David Dumlao]

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Thank you for the FUD. I was beginning to miss M$.

Heres the freedesktop entry for a more authoritative statement.

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/ConsoleKit/

On Jul 23, 2013 4:57 AM, "Volker Armin Hemmann" <volkerarmin@googlemail.com>
wrote:
>
> maybe you should not just believe everything posted. Especially from a
systemd fanboi.
>
>
> 2013/7/22 Michael Hampicke <mh@hadt.biz>
>>
>> Am 22.07.2013 17:02, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
>> > ConsoleKit  is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the
>> > packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd,
>> > and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago.
>> >
>>
>> Thanks, just purged consolekit from my system after setting
>> USE="-consolekit" and remerged the affected packages.
>>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Mark David Dumlao]

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Thanks for the FUD.

On Jul 22, 2013 11:15 PM, "Volker Armin Hemmann" <volkerarmin@googlemail.com>
wrote:
>
> yeah, because it is so great to have that monster systemd on your box.
Because xml configs are awesome and binary logs even more and I always
wanted an init with builtin webbrowser. Security? bah, not needed.

Funny. I dont remember any xml blobs on my systemd configs. And my logs are
sent to syslog-ng as text, too. Id say i dont have a builton webbrowser but
i start emacs as a service ;)

Its fair to say you havent the slightest idea what youre talking about so
heaven knows how well youre misusing classic security practices right now.

>
> So when do I have to install mysql to use it? How long until some crap
ala windows-registry is forced down my throat?

Since this is a gnome topic? The registry was here like more than a year
now.

>
>
>
> 2013/7/22 Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com>
>>
>> ConsoleKit  is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the
>> packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd,
>> and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 2:03 AM, Helmut Jarausch
>> <jarausch@igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.8.4   requires systemd
>> >
>> > sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.6                cannot coexist with systemd
>> >
>> > but many packages depend on sys-auth/consolekit :
>> >
>> > emerge -vpc sys-auth/consolekit  gives
>> >
>> >   sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p20120320-r2 pulled in by:
>> >     gnome-base/gnome-session-3.8.2.1-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>> >     gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>> >     kde-base/kdm-4.10.5 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>> >     net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.8.2-r2 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>> >     net-wireless/bluez-4.101-r5 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>> >     sys-apps/accountsservice-0.6.34 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>> >     sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2 requires
>> >>=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam]
>> >     sys-auth/polkit-0.111 requires sys-auth/consolekit[policykit]
>> >     x11-apps/xdm-1.1.11-r3 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>> >     x11-misc/slim-1.3.5-r2 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>> >
>> >
>> > So, what to do? Obviously, I don't want an unbootable system.
>> >
>> > How did you resolve this conflict?
>> >
>> > Many thanks for a hint,
>> > Helmut
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Canek Peláez Valdés
>> Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
>> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
>>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[covici]

Mark David Dumlao <madumlao@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for the FUD. I was beginning to miss M$.
> 
> Heres the freedesktop entry for a more authoritative statement.
> 
> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/ConsoleKit/
> 
> On Jul 23, 2013 4:57 AM, "Volker Armin Hemmann" <volkerarmin@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > maybe you should not just believe everything posted. Especially from a
> systemd fanboi.
> >
> >
> > 2013/7/22 Michael Hampicke <mh@hadt.biz>
> >>
> >> Am 22.07.2013 17:02, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
> >> > ConsoleKit  is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the
> >> > packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd,
> >> > and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Thanks, just purged consolekit from my system after setting
> >> USE="-consolekit" and remerged the affected packages.
> >>
> >

I have several things depending on consolekit:

  sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p20120320-r2 pulled in by:
    gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.8.3 requires sys-auth/consolekit
    gnome-base/gnome-session-3.8.2.1-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
    gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
    sys-apps/accountsservice-0.6.30 requires sys-auth/consolekit
    sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2 requires
    >=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam]
    sys-auth/polkit-0.111 requires sys-auth/consolekit[policykit]
 


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 9:58 PM,  <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:
[ snip ]
> I have several things depending on consolekit:
>
>   sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p20120320-r2 pulled in by:
>     gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.8.3 requires sys-auth/consolekit

Dependency of gnome-control-center:

   || ( ( app-admin/openrc-settingsd sys-auth/consolekit )
>=sys-apps/systemd-31 )

>     gnome-base/gnome-session-3.8.2.1-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit

gnome-session:

        systemd? ( >=sys-apps/systemd-183 )
        !systemd? ( sys-auth/consolekit )

>     gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit

gnome-shell:

|| ( sys-auth/consolekit >=sys-apps/systemd-31 )

>     sys-apps/accountsservice-0.6.30 requires sys-auth/consolekit

accountsservice:

        systemd? ( >=sys-apps/systemd-186 )
        !systemd? ( sys-auth/consolekit )"

>     sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2 requires

pambase:

consolekit? ( >=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam] )
systemd? ( >=sys-apps/systemd-44-r1[pam] )


>     >=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam]

consolekit obviously doesn't depend on itself.

>     sys-auth/polkit-0.111 requires sys-auth/consolekit[policykit]

polkit:

        pam? (
                systemd? ( sys-auth/pambase[systemd] )
                !systemd? ( sys-auth/pambase[consolekit] )
                )

In other words, *ALL* of these packages can use systemd instead of
consolekit (and in the case of pambase, both at the same time). And,
as Mark already linked[1]: "ConsoleKit is currently not actively
maintained. The focus has shifted to the built-in seat/user/session
management of Software/systemd called systemd-loginctl", I would not
really count on these packages supporting CK in the future.

Regards.

[1] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/ConsoleKit/
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Mark Pariente]

On Mon, 2013-07-22 at 17:14 +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> yeah, because it is so great to have that monster systemd on your box.
> Because xml configs are awesome and binary logs even more and I always
> wanted an init with builtin webbrowser. Security? bah, not needed. 
> 
> 
> So when do I have to install mysql to use it? How long until some crap
> ala windows-registry is forced down my throat?

Nobody is forcing you to use anything. These are all upstream (GNOME,
freedestkop) decisions, you can't expect them to maintain code that
doesn't follow their technical direction. If you don't like it you can
fork or go use/contribute to other projects all you want. This is the
power of open source, no one can take choice away from you, they can
just make your choice a lot harder to realize.

--Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Samuli Suominen]

On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind
> ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally intended.

not possible, logind since systemd >= 205 requires systemd and won't 
work on openrc, upstart, and such
as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end

so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we 
need openrc for Linux based systems
and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor 
based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or 
provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power'
to split up the old 'plugdev'

- Samuli

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[András Csányi]

On 22 July 2013 21:57, Michael Hampicke <mh@hadt.biz> wrote:
> Am 22.07.2013 17:02, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
>> ConsoleKit  is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the
>> packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd,
>> and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago.
>>
>
> Thanks, just purged consolekit from my system after setting
> USE="-consolekit" and remerged the affected packages.

Do you have systemd enabled? I mean USE="systemd".

What is going to happen if my system does not have consolekit?


--
--  Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando)  -- http://sayusi.hu --
http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi
--  ""Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry!" - Cromwell

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Samuli Suominen]

On 23/07/13 09:11, András Csányi wrote:
> On 22 July 2013 21:57, Michael Hampicke <mh@hadt.biz> wrote:
>> Am 22.07.2013 17:02, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
>>> ConsoleKit  is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the
>>> packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd,
>>> and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, just purged consolekit from my system after setting
>> USE="-consolekit" and remerged the affected packages.
>
> Do you have systemd enabled? I mean USE="systemd".
>
> What is going to happen if my system does not have consolekit?

What do you mean?
ConsoleKit is used mainly to recognize if you are a local user or not.

If you don't have ConsoleKit OR systemd-logind, then nothing will 
recognize you are a local user and anything using PolicyKit like for 
example, networkmanager or your desktop's shutdown/restart 
functionality, or automounting by file manager, won't succeed without 
root password because then nothing is telling PolicyKit the user is 
local and fallback to root is applied.

For example, if you don't have sys-auth/consolekit installed then 
xfce-base/xfce4-session will fallback to using `sudo` for authorization 
on shutdown/reboot
But some functionality have no fallback like this at all, so if aiming 
for systemd-less and ConsoleKit-less system, you have to know what is 
what...

I hope that clarifies instead of complicates :P

[gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote:
> On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
>> This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind
>> ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally
>> intended.
>
> not possible, logind since systemd >= 205 requires systemd and won't
> work on openrc, upstart, and such
> as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end
>
> so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we
> need openrc for Linux based systems
> and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor
> based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or
> provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power'
> to split up the old 'plugdev'

Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?

[András Csányi]

On 23 July 2013 08:54, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote:
>>
>> On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
>>>
>>> This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind
>>> ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally
>>> intended.
>>
>>
>> not possible, logind since systemd >= 205 requires systemd and won't
>> work on openrc, upstart, and such
>> as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end
>>
>> so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we
>> need openrc for Linux based systems
>> and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor
>> based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or
>> provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power'
>> to split up the old 'plugdev'
>
>
> Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead?

Is there a migration guide? According to google there is no any. (or I
haven't spend enough time to search)

--
--  Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando)  -- http://sayusi.hu --
http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi
--  ""Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry!" - Cromwell

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Samuli Suominen]

On 23/07/13 09:54, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote:
>> On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
>>> This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind
>>> ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally
>>> intended.
>>
>> not possible, logind since systemd >= 205 requires systemd and won't
>> work on openrc, upstart, and such
>> as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end
>>
>> so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we
>> need openrc for Linux based systems
>> and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor
>> based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or
>> provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power'
>> to split up the old 'plugdev'
>
> Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead?

sure, I'm all for systemd but it's not the default yet... or rather, not 
tested enough to be the contigency plans. need to have contigency plans. :)

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[covici]

Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 9:58 PM,  <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:
> [ snip ]
> > I have several things depending on consolekit:
> >
> >   sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p20120320-r2 pulled in by:
> >     gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.8.3 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> 
> Dependency of gnome-control-center:
> 
>    || ( ( app-admin/openrc-settingsd sys-auth/consolekit )
> >=sys-apps/systemd-31 )
> 
> >     gnome-base/gnome-session-3.8.2.1-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> 
> gnome-session:
> 
>         systemd? ( >=sys-apps/systemd-183 )
>         !systemd? ( sys-auth/consolekit )
> 
> >     gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> 
> gnome-shell:
> 
> || ( sys-auth/consolekit >=sys-apps/systemd-31 )
> 
> >     sys-apps/accountsservice-0.6.30 requires sys-auth/consolekit
> 
> accountsservice:
> 
>         systemd? ( >=sys-apps/systemd-186 )
>         !systemd? ( sys-auth/consolekit )"
> 
> >     sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2 requires
> 
> pambase:
> 
> consolekit? ( >=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam] )
> systemd? ( >=sys-apps/systemd-44-r1[pam] )
> 
> 
> >     >=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam]
> 
> consolekit obviously doesn't depend on itself.
> 
> >     sys-auth/polkit-0.111 requires sys-auth/consolekit[policykit]
> 
> polkit:
> 
>         pam? (
>                 systemd? ( sys-auth/pambase[systemd] )
>                 !systemd? ( sys-auth/pambase[consolekit] )
>                 )
> 
> In other words, *ALL* of these packages can use systemd instead of
> consolekit (and in the case of pambase, both at the same time). And,
> as Mark already linked[1]: "ConsoleKit is currently not actively
> maintained. The focus has shifted to the built-in seat/user/session
> management of Software/systemd called systemd-loginctl", I would not
> really count on these packages supporting CK in the future.

So, this implies if I want to keep using gnome then systemd is required,
or use another desktop.  That is something to think about.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Alan McKinnon]

On 23/07/2013 11:31, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> So, this implies if I want to keep using gnome then systemd is required,
> or use another desktop.  That is something to think about.

Correct.

I wouldn't stress about it too much, your choice is do you want to use
Gnome3 or not? And then just use whatever Gnome3 gives as *that* part
you don't have a choice about.

It's a bit like wondering if you *have to* use Qt to get KDE. It's
pointless even wondering about it.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Michael Hampicke]

Am 2013-07-23 08:11, schrieb András Csányi:
> On 22 July 2013 21:57, Michael Hampicke <mh@hadt.biz> wrote:
>> Am 22.07.2013 17:02, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
>>> ConsoleKit  is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of 
>>> the
>>> packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd,
>>> and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago.
>>> 
>> 
>> Thanks, just purged consolekit from my system after setting
>> USE="-consolekit" and remerged the affected packages.
> 
> Do you have systemd enabled? I mean USE="systemd".
> 

Of course I do :-) I also use systemd as init.

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[gottlieb]

On Tue, Jul 23 2013, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> I wouldn't stress about it too much, your choice is do you want to use
> Gnome3 or not? And then just use whatever Gnome3 gives as *that* part
> you don't have a choice about.

Very clearly stated.  Thanks.

Currently I have gnome-base/gnome-3.6.2 with consolekit and no systemd

Since I wish to continue with Gnome3, I gather that at some point I will
be reversing the above (consolekit out; systemd in).

I was planning to wait for the devs to publish a conversion guide.
Is there a compelling reason to switch now?

thanks,
allan

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Pavel Volkov]

On Monday 22 July 2013 21:57:06 Michael Hampicke wrote:
> Am 22.07.2013 17:02, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
> > ConsoleKit  is for all practical purposes unmaintained, and all of the
> > packages you mentioned it support systemd just fine. Emerge systemd,
> > and purge CK from your system; I did that almost a year ago.
> 
> Thanks, just purged consolekit from my system after setting
> USE="-consolekit" and remerged the affected packages.

KDE / systemd user here.
Currently I have to put "-consolekit" into 
/etc/portage/profile/use.force
to get rid of ConsoleKit because USE=+consolekit is forced for some packages 
in default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop/kde profile, not matter what you set in 
make.conf.
And systemd is blocking consolekit package.

I consider use.force a deviation from the official and fully supported way. 
Maybe Gentoo devs can resolve it?

Those 3 packages are:
sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2  USE="(consolekit*)
kde-base/kdm-4.10.5-r1:4  USE="(consolekit*)
net-wireless/bluez-4.101-r5  USE="alsa (consolekit*)

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 4:31 AM,  <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:
> Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 9:58 PM,  <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:
>> [ snip ]
>> > I have several things depending on consolekit:
>> >
>> >   sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p20120320-r2 pulled in by:
>> >     gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.8.3 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>>
>> Dependency of gnome-control-center:
>>
>>    || ( ( app-admin/openrc-settingsd sys-auth/consolekit )
>> >=sys-apps/systemd-31 )
>>
>> >     gnome-base/gnome-session-3.8.2.1-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>>
>> gnome-session:
>>
>>         systemd? ( >=sys-apps/systemd-183 )
>>         !systemd? ( sys-auth/consolekit )
>>
>> >     gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r1 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>>
>> gnome-shell:
>>
>> || ( sys-auth/consolekit >=sys-apps/systemd-31 )
>>
>> >     sys-apps/accountsservice-0.6.30 requires sys-auth/consolekit
>>
>> accountsservice:
>>
>>         systemd? ( >=sys-apps/systemd-186 )
>>         !systemd? ( sys-auth/consolekit )"
>>
>> >     sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2 requires
>>
>> pambase:
>>
>> consolekit? ( >=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam] )
>> systemd? ( >=sys-apps/systemd-44-r1[pam] )
>>
>>
>> >     >=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.5_p2012[pam]
>>
>> consolekit obviously doesn't depend on itself.
>>
>> >     sys-auth/polkit-0.111 requires sys-auth/consolekit[policykit]
>>
>> polkit:
>>
>>         pam? (
>>                 systemd? ( sys-auth/pambase[systemd] )
>>                 !systemd? ( sys-auth/pambase[consolekit] )
>>                 )
>>
>> In other words, *ALL* of these packages can use systemd instead of
>> consolekit (and in the case of pambase, both at the same time). And,
>> as Mark already linked[1]: "ConsoleKit is currently not actively
>> maintained. The focus has shifted to the built-in seat/user/session
>> management of Software/systemd called systemd-loginctl", I would not
>> really count on these packages supporting CK in the future.
>
> So, this implies if I want to keep using gnome then systemd is required,
> or use another desktop.  That is something to think about.

Or you could, you know, try it. If you don't like it, you change DE
and get back to OpenRC.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 2:04 AM, András Csányi <sayusi.ando@sayusi.hu> wrote:
> On 23 July 2013 08:54, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote:
>>>
>>> On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind
>>>> ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally
>>>> intended.
>>>
>>>
>>> not possible, logind since systemd >= 205 requires systemd and won't
>>> work on openrc, upstart, and such
>>> as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end
>>>
>>> so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we
>>> need openrc for Linux based systems
>>> and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor
>>> based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or
>>> provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power'
>>> to split up the old 'plugdev'
>>
>>
>> Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead?
>
> Is there a migration guide? According to google there is no any. (or I
> haven't spend enough time to search)

You have the wiki:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd

I believe it covers the most important aspects of the migration. Also,
it is so much easier now; we even have a stable version on systemd in
the tree.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:31 AM,  <gottlieb@nyu.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 23 2013, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't stress about it too much, your choice is do you want to use
>> Gnome3 or not? And then just use whatever Gnome3 gives as *that* part
>> you don't have a choice about.
>
> Very clearly stated.  Thanks.
>
> Currently I have gnome-base/gnome-3.6.2 with consolekit and no systemd
>
> Since I wish to continue with Gnome3, I gather that at some point I will
> be reversing the above (consolekit out; systemd in).
>
> I was planning to wait for the devs to publish a conversion guide.

As I said to András, you have the wiki:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd

> Is there a compelling reason to switch now?

Well, as stated earlier, ConsoleKit is basically abandonware. Samuli
mentions "contingency plans" for when CK is no longer an option, but
all and any of those paths will be playing catching up with systemd.
The standards are now being defined by systemd. And, of course, there
are those of us who believe that systemd is in fact a much better
option than OpenRC (or any other init system).

Thanks to the efforts of people like Fabio Erculiani, right now is
kinda easy to switch back and forth between systemd and OpenRC. In
Sabayon (a Gentoo derivative) you can actually choose at boot time
wich init to use.

I would say try it now, when it is relatively easy to switch.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?

[covici]

Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 2:04 AM, András Csányi <sayusi.ando@sayusi.hu> wrote:
> > On 23 July 2013 08:54, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind
> >>>> ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally
> >>>> intended.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> not possible, logind since systemd >= 205 requires systemd and won't
> >>> work on openrc, upstart, and such
> >>> as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end
> >>>
> >>> so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we
> >>> need openrc for Linux based systems
> >>> and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor
> >>> based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or
> >>> provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power'
> >>> to split up the old 'plugdev'
> >>
> >>
> >> Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead?
> >
> > Is there a migration guide? According to google there is no any. (or I
> > haven't spend enough time to search)
> 
> You have the wiki:
> 
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd
> 
> I believe it covers the most important aspects of the migration. Also,
> it is so much easier now; we even have a stable version on systemd in
> the tree.

Couldn't emerge systemd its blocked by udev -- did a google search, but
found some very confusing posts to do with static-libs.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:28 PM,  <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:
> Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 2:04 AM, András Csányi <sayusi.ando@sayusi.hu> wrote:
>> > On 23 July 2013 08:54, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind
>> >>>> ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally
>> >>>> intended.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> not possible, logind since systemd >= 205 requires systemd and won't
>> >>> work on openrc, upstart, and such
>> >>> as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end
>> >>>
>> >>> so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we
>> >>> need openrc for Linux based systems
>> >>> and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor
>> >>> based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or
>> >>> provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power'
>> >>> to split up the old 'plugdev'
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead?
>> >
>> > Is there a migration guide? According to google there is no any. (or I
>> > haven't spend enough time to search)
>>
>> You have the wiki:
>>
>> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd
>>
>> I believe it covers the most important aspects of the migration. Also,
>> it is so much easier now; we even have a stable version on systemd in
>> the tree.
>
> Couldn't emerge systemd its blocked by udev -- did a google search, but
> found some very confusing posts to do with static-libs.

systemd *is* udev; they are the same package. Uninstall the Gentoo
packaging of udev (which basically strips systemd), install systemd,
and it includes the official udev.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?

[covici]

Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:28 PM,  <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:
> > Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 2:04 AM, András Csányi <sayusi.ando@sayusi.hu> wrote:
> >> > On 23 July 2013 08:54, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind
> >> >>>> ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally
> >> >>>> intended.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> not possible, logind since systemd >= 205 requires systemd and won't
> >> >>> work on openrc, upstart, and such
> >> >>> as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end
> >> >>>
> >> >>> so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we
> >> >>> need openrc for Linux based systems
> >> >>> and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor
> >> >>> based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or
> >> >>> provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power'
> >> >>> to split up the old 'plugdev'
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead?
> >> >
> >> > Is there a migration guide? According to google there is no any. (or I
> >> > haven't spend enough time to search)
> >>
> >> You have the wiki:
> >>
> >> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd
> >>
> >> I believe it covers the most important aspects of the migration. Also,
> >> it is so much easier now; we even have a stable version on systemd in
> >> the tree.
> >
> > Couldn't emerge systemd its blocked by udev -- did a google search, but
> > found some very confusing posts to do with static-libs.
> 
> systemd *is* udev; they are the same package. Uninstall the Gentoo
> packaging of udev (which basically strips systemd), install systemd,
> and it includes the official udev.

ahhh!  I see and it looks like I still don't have to use it as my init
till I figure all of it out, so that will at least be a good thing.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd - are we forced to switch?

[gottlieb]

On Tue, Jul 23 2013, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:31 AM,  <gottlieb@nyu.edu> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 23 2013, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>
>>> I wouldn't stress about it too much, your choice is do you want to use
>>> Gnome3 or not? And then just use whatever Gnome3 gives as *that* part
>>> you don't have a choice about.
>>
>> Very clearly stated.  Thanks.
>>
>> Currently I have gnome-base/gnome-3.6.2 with consolekit and no systemd
>>
>> Since I wish to continue with Gnome3, I gather that at some point I will
>> be reversing the above (consolekit out; systemd in).
>>
>> I was planning to wait for the devs to publish a conversion guide.
>
> As I said to András, you have the wiki:

I looked at the wiki and fear I need a pre-wiki, that is the wiki seems
to assume you know a fair amount about systemd, which I don't.

For example, it seems that instead of /etc/init.d and /etc/runlevels we
have services.  After running
   emerge --changed-use --deep @world
must I check that every entry previously in /etc/init.d now has an entry
in /usr/lib/systemd/system?  What do I do if there is no corresponding
entry?

Similarly, the wiki talks about some configuration files
(e.g. /etc/hostname replacing /etc/conf.d/hostname).  But what about all
the other files in /etc/conf.d?  Do I just copy them to /etc?

In summary I would hope that we get an introductory document (a simple
conversion guide) as a pre-read before the wiki.

The problem is not the wiki, but my lack of the prerequisite knowledge.
"The fault, dear Brutus, in not in our stars, but in ourselves"

thanks,
allan

[gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?

[walt]

On 07/26/2013 06:39 AM, gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:
> must I check that every entry previously in /etc/init.d now has an entry
> in /usr/lib/systemd/system?  What do I do if there is no corresponding
> entry?

I actually had to write a few of my own *.service files, which belong in
/etc/systemd/system/ instead of /usr/lib64/systemd/system. (systemd looks
in both places for service files)

I started playing with systemd on a virtual gentoo machine many months
ago when gentoo's systemd was still very incomplete and lacked *.system
files for several important packages.  I'm hoping the gentoo devs have
made progress with that problem, but fedora and arch linux have already
made the switch to systemd and you can steal *.service files from those
if you need to.

BTW, I'm still using systemd only on my virtual machines so far.  The
recent upgrade on ~amd64 is an ugly mess IMHO.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?

[covici]

walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 07/26/2013 06:39 AM, gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:
> > must I check that every entry previously in /etc/init.d now has an entry
> > in /usr/lib/systemd/system?  What do I do if there is no corresponding
> > entry?
> 
> I actually had to write a few of my own *.service files, which belong in
> /etc/systemd/system/ instead of /usr/lib64/systemd/system. (systemd looks
> in both places for service files)
> 
> I started playing with systemd on a virtual gentoo machine many months
> ago when gentoo's systemd was still very incomplete and lacked *.system
> files for several important packages.  I'm hoping the gentoo devs have
> made progress with that problem, but fedora and arch linux have already
> made the switch to systemd and you can steal *.service files from those
> if you need to.
> 
> BTW, I'm still using systemd only on my virtual machines so far.  The
> recent upgrade on ~amd64 is an ugly mess IMHO.

Any documentation on what is in a service file?  It does not look too
bad, but I would rather see the full documentation on what you can have
in there and exactly how they work.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?

[Mark David Dumlao]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1435 bytes --]

systemd.unit (5)
systemd.service (5)
On Jul 28, 2013 6:26 AM, <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:

> walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 07/26/2013 06:39 AM, gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:
> > > must I check that every entry previously in /etc/init.d now has an
> entry
> > > in /usr/lib/systemd/system?  What do I do if there is no corresponding
> > > entry?
> >
> > I actually had to write a few of my own *.service files, which belong in
> > /etc/systemd/system/ instead of /usr/lib64/systemd/system. (systemd looks
> > in both places for service files)
> >
> > I started playing with systemd on a virtual gentoo machine many months
> > ago when gentoo's systemd was still very incomplete and lacked *.system
> > files for several important packages.  I'm hoping the gentoo devs have
> > made progress with that problem, but fedora and arch linux have already
> > made the switch to systemd and you can steal *.service files from those
> > if you need to.
> >
> > BTW, I'm still using systemd only on my virtual machines so far.  The
> > recent upgrade on ~amd64 is an ugly mess IMHO.
>
> Any documentation on what is in a service file?  It does not look too
> bad, but I would rather see the full documentation on what you can have
> in there and exactly how they work.
>
>
> --
> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
> How do
> you spend it?
>
>          John Covici
>          covici@ccs.covici.com
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1977 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?

[covici]

Mark David Dumlao <madumlao@gmail.com> wrote:

> systemd.unit (5)
> systemd.service (5)
> On Jul 28, 2013 6:26 AM, <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:
> 
> > walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 07/26/2013 06:39 AM, gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:
> > > > must I check that every entry previously in /etc/init.d now has an
> > entry
> > > > in /usr/lib/systemd/system?  What do I do if there is no corresponding
> > > > entry?
> > >
> > > I actually had to write a few of my own *.service files, which belong in
> > > /etc/systemd/system/ instead of /usr/lib64/systemd/system. (systemd looks
> > > in both places for service files)
> > >
> > > I started playing with systemd on a virtual gentoo machine many months
> > > ago when gentoo's systemd was still very incomplete and lacked *.system
> > > files for several important packages.  I'm hoping the gentoo devs have
> > > made progress with that problem, but fedora and arch linux have already
> > > made the switch to systemd and you can steal *.service files from those
> > > if you need to.
> > >
> > > BTW, I'm still using systemd only on my virtual machines so far.  The
> > > recent upgrade on ~amd64 is an ugly mess IMHO.
> >
> > Any documentation on what is in a service file?  It does not look too
> > bad, but I would rather see the full documentation on what you can have
> > in there and exactly how they work.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
> > How do
> > you spend it?
> >
> >          John Covici
> >          covici@ccs.covici.com
> >
> >
Heavens, never thought of actual man pages for those!  Must be getting
long in tooth.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com