From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2706138350 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:29:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 50437E0FF0; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:29:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ot1-x344.google.com (mail-ot1-x344.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::344]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF63EE0FE6 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:29:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot1-x344.google.com with SMTP id m18so2784449otq.9 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 10:29:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=hlWfmD/z7C4nAW98wwuXVm0Ck/vJcZAUDToTztebynU=; b=AvfZ0BjmiPkDkiqmVUt9ycFbNY0qVXvvV/4AVylwldttMWdfRJF6H30l79eHME29xm ADAj7uPoYpz72TEpQInQ9mBXvCGAlAlDYQQ7uwzauN8x6EDnkTsEDaQ1Q1+VuU9KJZ7L bncAxXn+/fCirjFOVOrt//JC3nKvCGX3k+QnYosuIiokkM0V2I2CVSt+oBIELFFgUBjO x1oAFfdpYt4tK7rqO26aaZrqDe6Bkpgu+xG+vcsTEvc26wtpjvMoZdUZuj2cwOBFwEJA Yhw3VO4Oo9AUuMFw8gXFbPJTztRzfBPtfqh6JUbqr4xzX31gTW5cECAlmtCZRb+P53TA PVEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=hlWfmD/z7C4nAW98wwuXVm0Ck/vJcZAUDToTztebynU=; b=emAf0cL9WfWqsM8AKm/qSpdT+xD7vmr8mSQ3areTVKoqu/unXq45V0xinjP+Iese5A 46Gf7ykA5gnrzScSdZxCSQm2lgcQf5FWXkIkfXfdm3G7qM9vJGXIgAKQ+MVOTu+n+sH+ KFm8su4SufppQwEUCTF2p/a7xFZo0CpqKBIna1uM/TityGB+FFlomU9w4t+ChbA9vaVi C6AJo1tay+2TrUtC7o/SFB1C9bS/cMU5WQM13lEkSteOoqqCKtl5XhDhBL3+fCbl7JOE EnZ5OIyRRiKAdf2IDYAzN3sVKJ3QOUQDrjw3oQTyH9Cm4oKflg2A45LClnTut60ACv9p t8Vw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYV3QKlkPegyhCnGcf3GHurfvGyxBeccf500iu/HwB0zvfflqEm 3Dxrv4aVY2cxJjP6AJfzuW4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKoauTMlaBJVBQ3XDdpKj6tbZKT67aZ1doUlhNOW4gqiDg/yfH0feayzYPh1aaKBQ/pIbZkGQ== X-Received: by 2002:aca:4b90:: with SMTP id y138mr24322oia.74.1587576582650; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 10:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.100] (adsl-074-188-240-152.sip.asm.bellsouth.net. [74.188.240.152]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c26sm1667009otl.49.2020.04.22.10.29.41 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Apr 2020 10:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead? To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <20200421165803.GB187193@redacted> <11506562.O9o76ZdvQC@peak> <20200421190145.GF187193@redacted> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFxc7MgBEAC+zrgEdqJJiDe/UDAB+ScmferXWfJTVjbVT2T4DQ7jiLrgP9aNUo1HioNF mrU3JPOCR32gvZyTbY1+niO5+VSo/+pSqQ785h6ZDj1klMkrg6tEzGnf2MNBpBj4houZwxQ+ WDKKTg2M9F+lv8wTIdR/JQn+hSviktLMtrghQlyLhpapsLXWLA6gMFebpQYwxUwemvan8ddX lQvJe9FGyFYvBi0dp1gl10F2O+DVZJxvX8xkX+yImVlhVJiC31gXHRcj+Qlo7gprlU7TIieF Uow6/ZvYKJ26pztVdFCg5w0rMJkF/x8Zd4A6wnuptiAPmWaQ1+YKgYDonbDUgwqFSx5/lN5z DGZ4LlioxeUTTPVvZsqBIeDz6jNFA583OYbo1/S26dqrvTFf2DKlsvoDpVfAhNlwJPjoixs0 X3FNqPv+M10n4kq5Iz7Q9E3O4s/nfFIYGocEslVka7zZPkXSaHbsn+KJlY8XV6qxtCEdh0/V XX1+1aU2J74M0JikWhpwxTZ1dP5aOyWSPPEgFFIRW6xwwC02SoRH9a7mggfGYp/YjPlONNaT SCL8sgRfvmq3D0XTbLyTjSbExxkfKDmbePQagawDE3TlI/oivHf1JaAcbwMb3LZuU4TGcOIl 5D+x7q0MUIeCop0ZFOwAnqW3AVVNvsBkv2KN+IHJryWAf0/iMQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgWIQTZ7suruPBaS60bCYXvEM/XWu+ZnAUCXFzs yAIbIwULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRDvEM/XWu+ZnN+7D/4/1dNG4aCz0+v+ 0dcjV5tY1feYEWCdHKyDzxWBxlCpd/0NPRQeNY4VMjbCl/sq7GkXi/c2SbfWDQ5BQRkkExG1 pSwuXSIehGok/4fpTi3HDAguRvzdCqlKPt7me05FyiC/WnpY5GOlJ3ruGw2qABv/RmV2q5b/ tkq7h1y1f16DTNr3/nsj8HzHcrHdXdL4kaYChSOe/dbQR9Stqak7eMyR+iwvrJMNF/CGl70P 2x5ybsXMDzRVOqNcpa5ZdhEMTVh6+vC1SOmm1BFMF8XCqBEvBbcHWDQmGYTdNCsS/ADm8CBl gvjJgLdIsAzoMu4WHQDFnzXAoArqFWgAf53isOS4AWrv29tF9b8Aa1vb7h5JEa+ArcMsA6Gl X38+GY6WXXaxKI9n3PTCWu9tPGnRh7mABjnwEosDDqmzw8aTAYECb3avDuGY2rmcjgh4H6RE w08d63j1T4d5J9wlm4TGtW/VHgbUFkATEdH3Acl/EjFiyqTiX7p8kU6Reu5enIkogA93xoQh Rmy7ZiST/5LN+ZkaOdyjIw0L+5KalslN9SKt809YxgJ6kPo657LNTFPiFvFA46/SEWcBYrzq Xk0wEW0gBRWf+BqN0qRhU0/EQ+QfRdLLFg2xtUePwlheYLXxfyDLrdCCOLWYpkzbjCZHLS4u 69smbvR9S9KBDNzJybxEWrkCDQRcXOzIARAA5IGRWTqaM44IJgBYghZg2fGj0Am7KWPhE7V7 T/EEe7vVSUEFqHtlHzI4ZK6Q0AZ9uAEjE8IJIQ7KoTjzNqAtabP0vp3s0szgtJlsZ+8vGKlQ my7fvzSrdoQL0Xn7CEwJYFXJ1EMUcYIQeoHG1cUAaXx73k9BFbjwjnUeMrqlV/ZovQlg7duW nESfQ7HZu5NrtYyY3jPMUouxiO9WQPh+IHxZbt1absF2VcvRAymD32RxGvMPbw6ChMRD/p9O 4PH7M5rXaxr78NXQX9E48vrI00f1cYb9NSN1HnSV8cW3jKObVjdBk6jPQwrMvdpgdQhUB9aZ HS/9mC9mmAgiXKyCpzXe7FPB6QznSfn4GIaC/luy1e6SLUkJhRK/niB+gq+Mfxg2zXNuDUTI cMGmpDCp3kgUoorkaltk8RW09io95BkXrGhcDNuSGZfAParBc7RXyYpbIcax8St7tEAd2oFh 4seYOPUlzuhGrPpqR/91wrFc4E1260GKauSr4UhMJv6tygBwyC0mmBMKi+ZXw6ZdZxA5fg7y 35P3TILjznCXXTDgRHq9A3NknKRMcgFacX6eIhANkMFo6oJVjuEgy1dvu1wFfDq7c+i8GAHu L4pYzyXYu6PporlNNU0xSwdVgzM/uuK0lt+UxCimgC+YR3IezgDcbfudb7h9dGIwL+bbPL0A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIBYhBNnuy6u48FpLrRsJhe8Qz9da75mcBQJcXOzIAhsMAAoJEO8Qz9da 75mcXZ4P/1YXgWDZek7mhzrf6uaQzMxa92P89HeWz4PlgB/32symeEFAV04WazzBZffI8AYY rGA1Xmu/2VaB9+FOODyKhUWBc2UL0NRWBk6POwboyTdKlclmpixaN9zLcBt0YLejoRfN1B/5 aQf9/lUDZMnAiCyz0FgeqEMUshldmwWC35RqnjrCbbuk2vIqSH6BLDIXU6jQrLHE1DF0ai41 wLtQFAFXPhn45n0ZwYhVs4Z32z4sjXrIvgBgCaXa4HM+L1Klne0KiNM8ReFTTpTE0SgyDOSZ O3MOa2n77i6JbVtsbiFYnNeP3J9S/l3jevGpZEtNQOKrIm1MW8jGuHWtsDeMkT/mCcSodlkt PxIo+mMK9GpGvG2hW80LiohqNfUbNwAmr3blOYY4URPXPRnEnPs4pmTmL5owjw2dkg145i9I D42Tq+XZ6YtWt3SGzGbAYow6XwTwZ5NFAzV9UQuCGrDw4KWan6O6Z+VIYWsn0UMZlu1Obxna aocofkaUCbISK26kImuD1aA8juSHC18Qv1xUage6/UakbSxyDtACqt6hOVFKX3IA59ApdNRT +2x3iCmlvF9MJsGgFq6IpqL+Fk7iWV8Kjbz0wQOId6N9+JdQh3LrLaS7a1PowUm1z9DK5/O0 Yg+gpDnEOOFI7WM5u7a7FSM2Z/LXGVwel/0eWvLk9tN6 Message-ID: <0d270fdf-1de2-03b4-1f5a-702450975561@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:29:40 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2CB9FCF435ADF8CB76610341" X-Archives-Salt: 41dd7a39-ff74-4fd0-87de-ecf2c58e00e8 X-Archives-Hash: 30084572300c6120a85994620ffa2385 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2CB9FCF435ADF8CB76610341 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 4/22/20 11:22 AM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: >> On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 11:01 PM, Consus wrote: >> >>> Yeah, mgorny likes to do some provocative stuff like forking Portage. >> patching P*****E is heretic, and forking it is >> outright blasphemous. >> > For everyone complaining about how long emerge @world takes, and about > the incomprehensible error messages -- this fork was a step towards > fixing that. Portage does some slow, unpredictable, undocumented magic > when resolving dependencies that it never should have done in the first > place. Developers using portage then make commits that appear to work > with portage, but won't work in any other PMS-compliant package manager, > and often don't work in portage itself when given slightly different > command-line options. > > Portage was forked because the current maintainers insist on leaving it > broken to "avoid the phone calls." There are still problems, but this > way people don't realize they're portage's fault. > > Some may recall my thread about emerge only using one core when doing it's build list.  As was discussed in that thread, it would be really difficult to build that list in pretty much any language because it just isn't set up to do that, the tree itself it seems.  While I'd like emerge to be able to use more than one core, it may be faster but it might also fall more often to which would waste more time than using multiple cores would save.  In other words, a lot of work with little or no benefit. Didn't Firefox do this a couple years ago?  Start basically from scratch and start over with new code?  I seem to recall them doing that so it could use more than one core and other things.  It lead to all the add-ons being redone as well.  I recall a lot of fussing about that.  While it would be nice, could it even be done?  Would it be easier to just start over with a new tree, new emerge/portage commands and all?  Bigger question, who's the person with idiot stamped on their forehead that would be willing to do all that without knowing it would even work?  ROFL  These Gentoo dead threads get interesting pretty fast.  Dale :-)  :-)  --------------2CB9FCF435ADF8CB76610341 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Michael Orlitzky wrote:
On 4/22/20 11:22 AM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 11:01 PM, Consus <consus@ftml.net> wrote:


Yeah, mgorny likes to do some provocative stuff like forking Portage.

patching P*****E is heretic, and forking it is
outright blasphemous.


For everyone complaining about how long emerge @world takes, and about
the incomprehensible error messages -- this fork was a step towards
fixing that. Portage does some slow, unpredictable, undocumented magic
when resolving dependencies that it never should have done in the first
place. Developers using portage then make commits that appear to work
with portage, but won't work in any other PMS-compliant package manager,
and often don't work in portage itself when given slightly different
command-line options.

Portage was forked because the current maintainers insist on leaving it
broken to "avoid the phone calls." There are still problems, but this
way people don't realize they're portage's fault.


Some may recall my thread about emerge only using one core when doing it's build list.  As was discussed in that thread, it would be really difficult to build that list in pretty much any language because it just isn't set up to do that, the tree itself it seems.  While I'd like emerge to be able to use more than one core, it may be faster but it might also fall more often to which would waste more time than using multiple cores would save.  In other words, a lot of work with little or no benefit.

Didn't Firefox do this a couple years ago?  Start basically from scratch and start over with new code?  I seem to recall them doing that so it could use more than one core and other things.  It lead to all the add-ons being redone as well.  I recall a lot of fussing about that. 

While it would be nice, could it even be done?  Would it be easier to just start over with a new tree, new emerge/portage commands and all?  Bigger question, who's the person with idiot stamped on their forehead that would be willing to do all that without knowing it would even work?  ROFL 

These Gentoo dead threads get interesting pretty fast. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 
--------------2CB9FCF435ADF8CB76610341--