[gentoo-trustees] Re: Question about "g" logo usage

[gentoo-trustees] Re: Question about "g" logo usage

[Corey Shields]

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On Monday 26 September 2005 09:22 am, Corey Shields wrote:
> fwiw, I think we should promote such usage (and as Donnie points out, it is
> legit given the conditions are met).
>
> The more businesses are "supporting" and pushing Gentoo, the more our
> userbase will grow.  Just my $.02
>
> Cheers,

(moving this to the mailing lists)

Looking at this further, we have a following line that states:

""
Commercial use of the Gentoo "g" logo and Gentoo artwork for any other purpose is expressly denied. The use of the "g" logo and Gentoo artwork for any product that is not a software or computer hardware product is expressly denied.
""

In my interpretation this means that support and services are denied.  People who are offering support, or people offering Gentoo hosting, etc. should be able to use the logo within the guidelines stated, IMO.  I move we vote to have this changed such that Commercial support and services are allowed to use the logo with the same listed guidelines.  With this, the first paragraph under "Commercial Use" should be changed to read:

""
Commercial use of the Gentoo "g" logo and Gentoo artwork is allowed for the following, provided that the conditions below are met: any software or computer hardware product that contains or is based upon content produced by the Gentoo project, services that provide commercial support gor Gentoo, and services that are built on or make use of Gentoo. The conditions for use are as follows:
""

The bottom paragraph should be changed to read:

""
Commercial use of the Gentoo "g" logo and Gentoo artwork for any other purpose is expressly denied. The use of the "g" logo and Gentoo artwork for any product that is not a software or computer hardware product, or support and service of Gentoo is expressly denied.
""

-- 
Corey Shields
Gentoo Linux Infrastructure Team
Gentoo Foundation Board of Trustees
http://www.gentoo.org/~cshields

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] Re: Question about "g" logo usage

[Seemant Kulleen]

My legalese is a little rusty, so I can't comment on the wording yet.
However, in principle I'm not completely against commercial affairs
using the G logo.  My concern is actually more of indemnity in such
situations.  Provided Gentoo is not implicated in anything to do with
that commercial entity, I don't mind them using it.  So if such-and-such
hosting is a front for cocaine distribution, and they use postgresql on
gentoo and have our G logo on their fake website, then yeah we don't
need to be involved in a lawsuit and/or other things.

So provided their warranties clearly indicate that Gentoo is clear of
responsibility, then I'm ok with it.

Thanks,

Seemant
-- 
gentoo-trustees@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-trustees] Re: Question about "g" logo usage

[Grant Goodyear]

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Corey Shields wrote: [Mon Sep 26 2005, 11:38:17AM CDT]
> On Monday 26 September 2005 09:22 am, Corey Shields wrote:
> > fwiw, I think we should promote such usage (and as Donnie points out, it is
> > legit given the conditions are met).
> >
> > The more businesses are "supporting" and pushing Gentoo, the more our
> > userbase will grow.  Just my $.02

My own small-amount-of-change: I don't mind commercial folks using our
logo, but I think they should license it.  Now that doesn't necessarily
mean that actual money needs to be involved, but permission needs to be
sought, and the time needs to be limited (with, of course, the option to
renew the license).  I think we need that much to maintain the Gentoo
trademark(s), although that question should really be run by the legal
folks for confirmation.

-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] Re: Question about "g" logo usage

[Grant Goodyear]

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Grant Goodyear wrote: [Mon Sep 26 2005, 07:50:05PM CDT]
> My own small-amount-of-change: I don't mind commercial folks using our
> logo, but I think they should license it.  Now that doesn't necessarily
> mean that actual money needs to be involved, but permission needs to be
> sought, and the time needs to be limited (with, of course, the option to
> renew the license).  I think we need that much to maintain the Gentoo
> trademark(s), although that question should really be run by the legal
> folks for confirmation.

Oh, I also wanted to ask if there's a reason we don't have this
discussion on -nfp?  To the best of my knowledge -trustees still isn't
archived, so it would be best if we had as many conversations out in the
open as possible.

-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] Re: Question about "g" logo usage

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Grant Goodyear wrote:
| Oh, I also wanted to ask if there's a reason we don't have this
| discussion on -nfp?  To the best of my knowledge -trustees still isn't
| archived, so it would be best if we had as many conversations out in the
| open as possible.

http://archives.gentoo.org/ml/gentoo-trustees/2005/09/

It's a bit out of date, but just about a week.

Thanks,
Donnie
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[gentoo-trustees] Re: Question about "g" logo usage

[Sven Vermeulen]

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On Sun, Sep 25, 2005 at 10:50:47PM -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> It looks like the guidelines pretty much say he can, as long as he
> acknowledges our trademark and it is not the primary mark on any of his
> products (in this case, the business card would be a product):
> 
> Commercial use of the Gentoo "g" logo and Gentoo artwork is allowed for
> any software or computer hardware product that contains or is based upon
> content produced by the Gentoo project, provided that the following
> conditions are met:
[...]

Not really, since we aren't discussing "any software or computer hardware
product". That's also why I proposed to alter this particular paragraph so
it also refers to "any reference to Gentoo or the Gentoo Project" (see my
first mail on this subject in trustees@).

Wkr,
      Sven Vermeulen

-- 
  Gentoo Foundation Trustee          |  http://foundation.gentoo.org
  Gentoo Documentation Project Lead  |  http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gdp
  Gentoo Council Member  

  The Gentoo Project   <<< http://www.gentoo.org >>>

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] Re: Question about "g" logo usage

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Sven Vermeulen wrote:
| Not really, since we aren't discussing "any software or computer hardware
| product". That's also why I proposed to alter this particular paragraph so
| it also refers to "any reference to Gentoo or the Gentoo Project" (see my
| first mail on this subject in trustees@).

You have a point, so I went and looked up some info on this.

Our trademark only applies to operating system software [1]. I don't
know that we're in any position to restrict use in any other area.

In particular, I think Juan's proposed use qualifies as fair use [2]. As
long as it's clear that Gentoo doesn't endorse him, he's saying that he
provides support for Gentoo systems. In addition, the likelihood of
someone confusing a consulting service with the Gentoo operating system
is minimal. And he's not using Gentoo in the trademark sense (e.g. not
naming his business Gentoo Consulting), he's using it to show that he
will service Gentoo installations.

He should be fine to use it, and even better if he would put a small
disclaimer at the bottom saying that the G logo is a trademark of the
Gentoo Foundation, Inc.

Thanks,
Donnie

1. Gentoo trademark

"Computer software, namely operating system software that automatically
configures and optimizes performance on the underlying hardware and is
adapted for a large number of usage scenarios and applications, namely,
secure servers, development workstations, professional desktops, gaming
systems and embedded solutions."

2. http://www.publaw.com/fairusetrade.html

"Fair use or nominative use may be recognized in those instances where a
reader of a given work is clearly able to understand that the use of the
trademark does not suggest sponsorship or association with the trademark
owner's product or services and therefore is not being used in a manner
to confuse the reader."

"An author's use of a trademark for the above-referenced situations
should be considered a non-confusing "nominative use" when it meets the
following requirements: (1) the trademark owner's product or service
must be one that is not readily identifiable without the use of the
trademark; (2) the author only uses as much of the trademark as is
reasonably necessary to identify the trademark owner's products or
services; and (3) the author does nothing that would, in conjunction
with the trademark, suggest to the reader sponsorship or endorsement by
the trademark owner."

"Legal doctrine defines fair use of a trademark as the "reasonable and
good faith use of a descriptive term that is another's trademark to
describe rather than to identify the user's goods, services or business"."
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[gentoo-trustees] Re: Question about "g" logo usage

[Sven Vermeulen]

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On Sat, Sep 17, 2005 at 09:23:54PM +0200, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> To make this 'valid' in the guidelines I was thinking about changing "... is
> allowed for any software or computer hardware product that contains or is
> based upon content produced by the Gentoo project..." to "... is allowed for
> any software or computer hardware product that contains or is based upon
> content produced by the Gentoo project, or any reference to Gentoo or the
> Gentoo Project...".

I'll reiterate this request as a formal one now. Who is opposed to changing
the name-logo.xml document as explained above so that commercial use of our
logo is allowed when it is a referral to the Gentoo project/distribution
(like on business cards, support web site, ...)?

Wkr,
      Sven Vermeulen

-- 
  Gentoo Foundation Trustee          |  http://foundation.gentoo.org
  Gentoo Documentation Project Lead  |  http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gdp
  Gentoo Council Member  

  The Gentoo Project   <<< http://www.gentoo.org >>>

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] Re: Question about "g" logo usage

[Grant Goodyear]

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Sven Vermeulen wrote: [Thu Oct 27 2005, 11:24:20AM CDT]
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2005 at 09:23:54PM +0200, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> > To make this 'valid' in the guidelines I was thinking about changing "... is
> > allowed for any software or computer hardware product that contains or is
> > based upon content produced by the Gentoo project..." to "... is allowed for
> > any software or computer hardware product that contains or is based upon
> > content produced by the Gentoo project, or any reference to Gentoo or the
> > Gentoo Project...".
> 
> I'll reiterate this request as a formal one now. Who is opposed to changing
> the name-logo.xml document as explained above so that commercial use of our
> logo is allowed when it is a referral to the Gentoo project/distribution
> (like on business cards, support web site, ...)?

I'm content with the change.

-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] Re: Question about "g" logo usage

[Jason Huebel]

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On Thursday 27 October 2005 11:24 am, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2005 at 09:23:54PM +0200, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> > To make this 'valid' in the guidelines I was thinking about changing "...
> > is allowed for any software or computer hardware product that contains or
> > is based upon content produced by the Gentoo project..." to "... is
> > allowed for any software or computer hardware product that contains or is
> > based upon content produced by the Gentoo project, or any reference to
> > Gentoo or the Gentoo Project...".
>
> I'll reiterate this request as a formal one now. Who is opposed to changing
> the name-logo.xml document as explained above so that commercial use of our
> logo is allowed when it is a referral to the Gentoo project/distribution
> (like on business cards, support web site, ...)?
>
> Wkr,
>       Sven Vermeulen

Sounds reasonable enough.  We want commercial sites to promote us too.  
Nothing wrong with that.

-- 
Jason Huebel
Gentoo Board Of Trustees Member
Gentoo Developer Relations Lead
Gentoo Recruiter

GPG Public Key:
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"Do not weep; do not wax indignant. Understand."
Baruch Spinoza (1632 - 1677)

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