[gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Corey Shields]

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Greetings!

We have 4 days left in our "trial" of the cafepress premium store.  In the 
last 3 days that the link has been on www.g.o we have had 10 orders totaling 
a commission of $47.

We need to vote on spending the money to continue the premium store.  This 
cost is as follows:

$6.95 per month
$18.45 for 3 months
$34.95 for 6 months
$59.95 for 12 months (only $5.00 per month!)

I vote we go ahead with 6 months..

-C

-- 
Corey Shields
Gentoo Linux Infrastructure Team and Devrel Team
Gentoo Foundation Board of Trustees
http://www.gentoo.org/~cshields

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Kurt Lieber]

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On Fri, May 27, 2005 at 11:50:00AM -0700 or thereabouts, Corey Shields wrote:
> I vote we go ahead with 6 months..

Me too.

--kurt

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Kumba]

Corey Shields wrote:
> Greetings!
> 
> We have 4 days left in our "trial" of the cafepress premium store.  In the 
> last 3 days that the link has been on www.g.o we have had 10 orders totaling 
> a commission of $47.
> 
> We need to vote on spending the money to continue the premium store.  This 
> cost is as follows:
> 
> $6.95 per month
> $18.45 for 3 months
> $34.95 for 6 months
> $59.95 for 12 months (only $5.00 per month!)
> 
> I vote we go ahead with 6 months..
> 
> -C
> 

Why not just take the $47 made, chip in a donation of $12.95, and buy the 12 
month option?  Saves us ~$0.80/mo over the course of 12 months, which by my 
cheap calculations, $9.90 of the donated $12 is eventually made back up, for a 
total of ~$3 lost.  I spend more than $3 each day on lunch, so my view is it's 
chump change.

Of course, I am not an accountant by any means, but the difference seems trivial.


--Kumba

-- 
"Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands 
do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."  --Elrond
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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Corey Shields]

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On Friday 27 May 2005 12:25 pm, Kumba wrote:
> Why not just take the $47 made, chip in a donation of $12.95, and buy the
> 12 month option?  Saves us ~$0.80/mo over the course of 12 months, which by
> my cheap calculations, $9.90 of the donated $12 is eventually made back up,
> for a total of ~$3 lost.  I spend more than $3 each day on lunch, so my
> view is it's chump change.
>
> Of course, I am not an accountant by any means, but the difference seems
> trivial.

Sorry, I was in a hurry to make a lunch appointment so I should have clarified 
this a bit:

CP Will require a payment method (like our bankcard), so we can do the one 
year regardless of what we have "made".  My reluctance in signing up for a 
whole year is in case someone is unhappy with that commitment.   (to be 
strictly legit about it, the current board could easily agree to a year, but 
if the new board is unhappy with that then they are out the money, albeit in 
this case the money is really not that much).

While we are on the topic of CP and money, any commission we make gets held 
for something like 45 days.  This allows the payment to clear, the order to 
ship, and CP's 30 day return policy.  This is cool with me as I don't think 
we will be in a "dire need" for sale funds (and if that ever happens we can 
put a call for help and use paypal to get funds quickly).

Cheers!

-- 
Corey Shields
Gentoo Linux Infrastructure Team and Devrel Team
Gentoo Foundation Board of Trustees
http://www.gentoo.org/~cshields

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Corey Shields wrote:
> CP Will require a payment method (like our bankcard), so we can do the one 
> year regardless of what we have "made".  My reluctance in signing up for a 
> whole year is in case someone is unhappy with that commitment.   (to be 
> strictly legit about it, the current board could easily agree to a year, but 
> if the new board is unhappy with that then they are out the money, albeit in 
> this case the money is really not that much).

If this is the issue, then one month would be sufficient to both try it
out and to let the new trustees make a decision without sitting on their
hands for another five months.

It makes sense here to talk about the per-month cost of each option:

Option                 |  Cost per month
- ---------------------------------------
$6.95 per month        |  6.95
$18.45 for 3 months    |  6.15
$34.95 for 6 months    |  5.825
$59.95 for 12 months   |  4.99

So, if we gave it a one-month trial then decided to go for a full year,
versus the 6 months now and buying another 6 months after that (since
the then-new trustees may want to be in on the next decision)), the
difference would be:

1 month, then a year: 66.90
6 months, then 6 more: 69.90

=> 3.00 cheaper to go with the one-month trial.

So the cost difference is negligible, and the question becomes: Do you
want the new trustees to be a part of this decision now?

Thanks,
Donnie
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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Corey Shields]

On Friday 27 May 2005 07:50 pm, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> So, if we gave it a one-month trial then decided to go for a full year,
> versus the 6 months now and buying another 6 months after that (since
> the then-new trustees may want to be in on the next decision)), the
> difference would be:
>
> 1 month, then a year: 66.90
> 6 months, then 6 more: 69.90
>
> => 3.00 cheaper to go with the one-month trial.
>
> So the cost difference is negligible, and the question becomes: Do you
> want the new trustees to be a part of this decision now?

That's a possibility..

Personally, I don't mind the new trustees being a part of this decision now 
(especially just 4 days away from the switch), but it's not fair to the 
others for me to include you without their agreement.  However, your input is 
good since this is an issue for you all..

So..  We can do the 1 month trial.  Still waiting on a few votes..

Cheers,

-C

-- 
Corey Shields
Gentoo Linux Infrastructure Team and Devrel Team
Gentoo Foundation Board of Trustees
http://www.gentoo.org/~cshields
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> So the cost difference is negligible, and the question becomes: Do you
> want the new trustees to be a part of this decision now?

And the other question: Do we trust Cafepress to do a good job (and
commit to >=6 months), or do we want to give them a short trial?
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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Corey Shields]

On Friday 27 May 2005 08:29 pm, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> > So the cost difference is negligible, and the question becomes: Do you
> > want the new trustees to be a part of this decision now?
>
> And the other question: Do we trust Cafepress to do a good job (and
> commit to >=6 months), or do we want to give them a short trial?

We don't have to commit to anything with them  (part of the beauty of it).

As for the quality, that has been a concern for a few people who have been 
unhappy with CP..  I have a shirt from the old Gentoo store that I bought 
over 2 years ago.  I still wear it.  The logo is a bit faded, but about the 
same as any t-shirt I bought from the mall around that same time period..

CP has a "Value shirt" option that is a lower quality shirt, I don't know for 
sure but this may have been what was used for the shirts that some people 
complain about.  I didn't select this for our store.

The store has historically been mostly CD sales, so I think that should be a 
higher priority as far as picking a "permanent" solution.  AFAIAC, so far CP 
seems to be perfect for our needs.

However, we can drop the CP store anytime we want...  no time commitment.  We 
can purchase a year of the premium store and then shut it down 3 months 
later, but we would be out of the premium fees.

Let me give some details on the way I setup the store wrt profit margins:

Clothing is a straight $5 markup

CD's will be $5 markup as well  (this will match the price that Daniel had on 
his store)

Everything else (schwag) is 20% markup, since some of the stuff, like 
stickers, is a little much to ask a $5 markup on.

So far, there have been orders made for 3 "golf" shirts (polos), 5 T-shirts 
(logos on both sides), 2 mugs, and a sticker.  The markup from this equals 
the $47.70 mentioned earlier.

As I've estimated before, previous Gentoo releases have had cd sales upwards 
of 1500-2000 copies.  CP mentioned they have no problem carrying a heavy load 
of orders, so come time for the next release this should work out well if we 
decide to keep it.

In my opinion, what makes this the best solution overall is that it's pretty 
much hands-off.  We don't have to worry about the orders, the money handling, 
shipping, inventory, etc.  They even have a 30 day money back guarantee, so 
if the shirt does suck it can be returned.  I've looked around for another 
outsourcer that does this kind of thing with CDs and merchandise both and 
have not found anyone.

Cheers!

-C
-- 
Corey Shields
Gentoo Linux Infrastructure Team and Devrel Team
Gentoo Foundation Board of Trustees
http://www.gentoo.org/~cshields
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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Corey Shields wrote:
> On Friday 27 May 2005 08:29 pm, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
>>And the other question: Do we trust Cafepress to do a good job (and
>>commit to >=6 months), or do we want to give them a short trial?
> 
> However, we can drop the CP store anytime we want...  no time commitment.  We 
> can purchase a year of the premium store and then shut it down 3 months 
> later, but we would be out of the premium fees.

Right -- I meant a monetary commitment, not a contractual obligation.

> Let me give some details on the way I setup the store wrt profit margins:
> 
> Clothing is a straight $5 markup
> 
> CD's will be $5 markup as well  (this will match the price that Daniel had on 
> his store)
> 
> Everything else (schwag) is 20% markup, since some of the stuff, like 
> stickers, is a little much to ask a $5 markup on.

I'd be quite interested to learn how other open-source groups do similar
things.

In particular, I could see a percentage markup on a per-category level
instead of straight numbers: e.g., CD's are 100%, everything else is
20%. If we arranged it so the cheaper clothes still came out to roughly
$5, then we could check the price on the more expensive ones to see
whether the final price remained reasonable.

> In my opinion, what makes this the best solution overall is that it's pretty 
> much hands-off.  We don't have to worry about the orders, the money handling, 
> shipping, inventory, etc.  They even have a 30 day money back guarantee, so 
> if the shirt does suck it can be returned.  I've looked around for another 
> outsourcer that does this kind of thing with CDs and merchandise both and 
> have not found anyone.

Indeed; on the downside, this could make doing anything else quite
difficult if we're dissatisfied with Cafepress.

Thanks,
Donnie
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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Lars Weiler]

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* Kumba <kumba@gentoo.org> [05/05/27 15:25 -0400]:
> Why not just take the $47 made, chip in a donation of $12.95, and buy the 
> 12 month option?  Saves us ~$0.80/mo over the course of 12 months, which by 
> my cheap calculations, $9.90 of the donated $12 is eventually made back up, 
> for a total of ~$3 lost.  I spend more than $3 each day on lunch, so my 
> view is it's chump change.

I'm for 6 months currently.  My hope is to set up a better,
probably self-run store within the next months.

Regards, Lars

PS: I don't know, if I may already vote as a trustee, as
June didn't started yet... ;-)

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Friday 27 May 2005 23:25, Lars Weiler wrote:
> * Kumba <kumba@gentoo.org> [05/05/27 15:25 -0400]:
> > Why not just take the $47 made, chip in a donation of $12.95, and buy the
> > 12 month option?  Saves us ~$0.80/mo over the course of 12 months, which
> > by my cheap calculations, $9.90 of the donated $12 is eventually made
> > back up, for a total of ~$3 lost.  I spend more than $3 each day on
> > lunch, so my view is it's chump change.
>
> I'm for 6 months currently.  My hope is to set up a better,
> probably self-run store within the next months.
>
> Regards, Lars

I wonder whether you know what you would be getting in to, but I vote for 6 
months. I think it's a reasonable trial period that would allow to get real 
feedback, and the time to work out alternatives if desired.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[seemant]

On Fri, May 27, 2005 at 11:50:00AM -0700, Corey Shields wrote:
> Greetings!
> 
> We have 4 days left in our "trial" of the cafepress premium store.  In the 
> last 3 days that the link has been on www.g.o we have had 10 orders totaling 
> a commission of $47.
> 
> We need to vote on spending the money to continue the premium store.  This 
> cost is as follows:
> 
> $6.95 per month
> $18.45 for 3 months
> $34.95 for 6 months
> $59.95 for 12 months (only $5.00 per month!)
> 
> I vote we go ahead with 6 months..


Yeah, you have my vote, Corey.

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Lance Albertson]

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On Fri, 2005-05-27 at 17:36 -0400, seemant wrote:
> On Fri, May 27, 2005 at 11:50:00AM -0700, Corey Shields wrote:
> > Greetings!
> > 
> > We have 4 days left in our "trial" of the cafepress premium store.  In the 
> > last 3 days that the link has been on www.g.o we have had 10 orders totaling 
> > a commission of $47.
> > 
> > We need to vote on spending the money to continue the premium store.  This 
> > cost is as follows:
> > 
> > $6.95 per month
> > $18.45 for 3 months
> > $34.95 for 6 months
> > $59.95 for 12 months (only $5.00 per month!)
> > 
> > I vote we go ahead with 6 months..
> 
> 
> Yeah, you have my vote, Corey.

If my vote counts, I'm for it. It sounds like either a 1 month or 3-6
month trail would work best until we made a final, more permanent
solution.

-- 
Lance Albertson <ramereth@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Infrastructure | Operations Manager

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Deedra Waters]

I'm with corey for the 6 months

On Fri, 27 May 2005, Corey Shields wrote:

> Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 11:50:00 -0700
> From: Corey Shields <cshields@gentoo.org>
> To: gentoo-trustees@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store
>
> Greetings!
>
> We have 4 days left in our "trial" of the cafepress premium store.  In the
> last 3 days that the link has been on www.g.o we have had 10 orders totaling
> a commission of $47.
>
> We need to vote on spending the money to continue the premium store.  This
> cost is as follows:
>
> $6.95 per month
> $18.45 for 3 months
> $34.95 for 6 months
> $59.95 for 12 months (only $5.00 per month!)
>
> I vote we go ahead with 6 months..
>
> -C
>
>

-- 
Deedra Waters - Gentoo developer relations, accessibility and infrastructure -
dmwaters@gentoo.org
Gentoo linux: http://www.gentoo.org

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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Sven Vermeulen]

On Fri, May 27, 2005 at 11:50:00AM -0700, Corey Shields wrote:
> I vote we go ahead with 6 months..

Same here; 6 months is a nice period to be able to make a good estimation on
the trustworthyness of a store and the quality it brings.

Wkr,
	Sven Vermeulen
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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Aron Griffis]

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6 months sounds fine to me.

Regards,
Aron

--
Aron Griffis
Gentoo Linux Developer


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Re: [gentoo-trustees] URGENT - Cafepress premium store

[Grant Goodyear]

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Corey Shields wrote: [Fri May 27 2005, 01:50:00PM CDT]
> I vote we go ahead with 6 months..

Add my vote as well.
-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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