[gentoo-soc] [report 6.3-6.10] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC

[gentoo-soc] [report 6.3-6.10] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC

[heroxbd]

Hey guys and gals,

in the week 6.3-6.10 the following is finished:

   1. a discuss with prefix herd. The conclusion is that portage prefix
      will add back confd and initd until openrc is completely prefix
      ready. (depends on, openrc-0.10.x, busybox hack)

   2. a discuss with openrc herd. The conclusion is that I will help
      with the new release of openrc by kill its bugs, after which
      williamH will make it full prefix aware.

   3. got macosx ssh account from my friend, to be used for evaluation of
      launchd.

   4. downloaded openindiana.

   5. got a ubuntu virtual machine to evaluate upstart.

in the week 6.11-6.17, the following is scheduled:

   1. try out openindiana

   2. kill bugs for openrc

   3. do evaluation of launchd, upstart, etc. and report to wiki[a]

Cheers,
Benda

references

   http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/OpenRC/Prefix
   
   http://www.awa.tohoku.ac.jp/~benda/projects/openrc.html

footnotes

   a. http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/OpenRC

Re: [gentoo-soc] [report 6.3-6.10] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC

[Luca Barbato]

On 06/11/2012 06:05 AM, heroxbd@gmail.com wrote:
> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> in the week 6.3-6.10 the following is finished:
> 
>    1. a discuss with prefix herd. The conclusion is that portage prefix
>       will add back confd and initd until openrc is completely prefix
>       ready. (depends on, openrc-0.10.x, busybox hack)

Good =)

>    2. a discuss with openrc herd. The conclusion is that I will help
>       with the new release of openrc by kill its bugs, after which
>       williamH will make it full prefix aware.

Sounds good.

>    3. got macosx ssh account from my friend, to be used for evaluation of
>       launchd.

Perfect, I'm looking forward your report
> 
>    4. downloaded openindiana.

gentoo-illumos people should help you in case

>    5. got a ubuntu virtual machine to evaluate upstart.

Good

> in the week 6.11-6.17, the following is scheduled:
> 
>    1. try out openindiana
> 
>    2. kill bugs for openrc
> 
>    3. do evaluation of launchd, upstart, etc. and report to wiki[a]

I like the plan ping me on irc if you need some help =)

lu

-- 

Luca Barbato
Gentoo/linux
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

[gentoo-soc] [report 6.11-6.17] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC

[heroxbd]

Hey guys and gals,

in the week 6.11-6.17 the following is scheduled, the status are,

   DONE 1. try out openindiana

   TODO 2. kill bugs for openrc (none killed)

   TODO 3. do evaluation of launchd, upstart, smf, etc. and report to wiki

As you can see, there were little progress, the main reasons being not
clear of defining the task (what to evaluate, what to test) and not
proactively initiate discussions with mentor. In the following week, I
will watch against such traps.

Schedule:

   1. kill bugs for openrc

      https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=openrc&list_id=1113873
      
      1.1 bug 413267
      1.2 bug 409829

   2. evaluate other rc systems (in order)

      2.0 smf (Openindiana)
      2.1 launchd (Mac OS X)
      2.2 upstart (Ubuntu)

bonus, a thread considering OpenRC and FreeBSD,
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.freebsd.devel.hackers/47297. (Hi
Robbins ;)

Cheers,
Benda

Re: [gentoo-soc] [report 6.11-6.17] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC

[Luca Barbato]

On 06/21/2012 01:36 AM, heroxbd@gmail.com wrote:
> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> in the week 6.11-6.17 the following is scheduled, the status are,
> 
>    DONE 1. try out openindiana
> 
>    TODO 2. kill bugs for openrc (none killed)
> 
>    TODO 3. do evaluation of launchd, upstart, smf, etc. and report to wiki
> 
> As you can see, there were little progress, the main reasons being not
> clear of defining the task (what to evaluate, what to test) and not
> proactively initiate discussions with mentor. In the following week, I
> will watch against such traps.

Let's try to get the basis of evaluation for a boot system:

- The checklist on the openrc wiki
- boot time
  - how many seconds to go from boot to desktop?
  - how many seconds to go from boot to *usable* desktop?
    Beware that some systems use a number of stupid (IMHO) tricks to
    to get the first number down, so you end up with a desktop but
    not fully usable. (Hi MacOSX Lion)
  - how many seconds to get the network up and a service running?
- shutdown time
  - how many seconds to go from running to halt?
    Apparently people care about it as well


> Schedule:
> 
>    1. kill bugs for openrc
> 
>       https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=openrc&list_id=1113873
>       
>       1.1 bug 413267
>       1.2 bug 409829
> 
>    2. evaluate other rc systems (in order)
> 
>       2.0 smf (Openindiana)
>       2.1 launchd (Mac OS X)
>       2.2 upstart (Ubuntu)

I think during this week would be ok if you manage to evaluate smf and
fix one bug.

> bonus, a thread considering OpenRC and FreeBSD,
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.freebsd.devel.hackers/47297. (Hi
> Robbins ;)

Nice =)


-- 

Luca Barbato
Gentoo/linux
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

Re: [gentoo-soc] [report 6.11-6.17] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC

[heroxbd]

Hey Luca,

Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> writes:

> Let's try to get the basis of evaluation for a boot system:
>
> - The checklist on the openrc wiki

ok, at present we have sysvinit, Upstart, systemd and OpenRC. I will try
to add smf and launchd in the same style.

> - boot time
>   - how many seconds to go from boot to desktop?
>   - how many seconds to go from boot to *usable* desktop?
>     Beware that some systems use a number of stupid (IMHO) tricks to
>     to get the first number down, so you end up with a desktop but
>     not fully usable. (Hi MacOSX Lion)
>   - how many seconds to get the network up and a service running?
> - shutdown time 
>   - how many seconds to go from running to halt?
>     Apparently people care about it as well

Hmm, let me try. I guess they can be just a raw reference. because the
software and hardware involved are different.

Cheers,
Benda

Re: [gentoo-soc] [report 6.11-6.17] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC

[Luca Barbato]

On 06/21/2012 09:13 AM, heroxbd@gmail.com wrote:
> Hey Luca,
> 
> Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> writes:
> 
>> Let's try to get the basis of evaluation for a boot system:
>>
>> - The checklist on the openrc wiki
> 
> ok, at present we have sysvinit, Upstart, systemd and OpenRC. I will try
> to add smf and launchd in the same style.
> 
>> - boot time
>>   - how many seconds to go from boot to desktop?
>>   - how many seconds to go from boot to *usable* desktop?
>>     Beware that some systems use a number of stupid (IMHO) tricks to
>>     to get the first number down, so you end up with a desktop but
>>     not fully usable. (Hi MacOSX Lion)
>>   - how many seconds to get the network up and a service running?
>> - shutdown time 
>>   - how many seconds to go from running to halt?
>>     Apparently people care about it as well
> 
> Hmm, let me try. I guess they can be just a raw reference. because the
> software and hardware involved are different.

I guess you could prepare something (look at bootchart2) and document
how to use it and make examples, then hopefully call for users with
similar hardware or time and resources to setup some vm.

lu


-- 

Luca Barbato
Gentoo/linux
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

[gentoo-soc] [report 6.18-6.24] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC (extended to improving to OpenRC)

[heroxbd]

Hey guys and gals,

reports for the scheduled in the last week:

   ON-GOING 1. kill bugs for openrc

      https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=openrc&list_id=1113873
      
      ON-GOING 1.1 bug 413267

               reproduced on my box, investigating the built in "single"
               runlevel.

      TODO 1.2 bug 409829

   ON-GOING 2. evaluate other rc systems (in order)

      DONE 2.0 smf (Openindiana)

           2.0.1 updated in 
                 
                 https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/OpenRC
                 
           later mgorny created a page for general comparison,

                 http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems

           Further evaluations will go to the new page. Old page needs
           to be cleaned up.
           
      TODO 2.1 launchd (Mac OS X)

      ON-GOING 2.2 upstart (Ubuntu)
               as well as trying Gentoo Prefix on top of it (there has
               been a big block for Prefix on Ubuntu, cf. bug
               400839). and chaining openrc from upstart.

   EXTRA NOTE 3. found another thread for introducing OpenRC to
            debian[1]

      3.1 in the reply by rra@debian[2], there are really what we are
            missing in openrc (ecosystem). 

      3.2 rleigh@debian seems to represent the thinking of debian
            community towards init system[3]: they don't like systemd
            way of integrating everything. But they really need some
            event-driven mechanism, which is not well defined by OpenRC
            (yet).

      3.3 talked with rleigh via irc, conveying (as patrick did) we are
            eager to take ideas from debian, and impove OpenRC to suite
            debian's need provided it's of general interest. And I am
            eager to put my effort to carry ideas into reality.

      3.4 discussed with patrick in #openrc considering the thread, and
            agreed upon that we can extend OpenRC with some simple
            helper scripts (event-driven, crash restart/statistics,
            dbus-like API for triggers from outside) and kernel specific
            hooks on top of the present OpenRC core. Changing OpenRC
            itself to make a fancy feature (or fanboy's paradigm) is not
            good practice.

In the next step, to improve OpenRC with recent ideas of init system, I
am thinking of packaging OpenRC in debian and let it work out of box
(maybe the LSB thing is the major block instead) as a practical measure
of the usefulness of new features I would have introduced. (I myself is
an old debian user for 8 years, therefore motivated to do so).

rleigh and rra, could you please be my mentor for the packaging?

Schedules for 6.25-7.1
======================

        1. evaluating launchd, and finish upstart

        2. the openrc single/reboot built runlevel switching bug

        3. try to have a piece of script to prove my concept for using
                openrc as a "event-driven" init system. try to work with
                rleigh@debian (rra@debian), as they know what are really
                needed. and synchronize with openrc herd.

Cheers,
Benda

1. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/171695
2. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/171786
3. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/171897

[gentoo-soc] [report 6.25-7.4] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC (extended to improving to OpenRC)

[heroxbd]

heroxbd@gmail.com writes:

> Schedules for 6.25-7.1
> ======================
>
> 1. evaluating launchd, and finish upstart

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems

> 2. the openrc single/reboot built runlevel switching bug

wait for reply

> 3. try to have a piece of script to prove my concept for using
>    openrc as a "event-driven" init system. try to work with
>    rleigh@debian (rra@debian), as they know what are really
>    needed. and synchronize with openrc herd.

not yet. LSB should be handled first.

Schedules for 7.5-7.8
======================

1. dive into 2 openrc bugs. (this seems endless... need to push williamH
   a little bit maybe)

2. start debian packaging with rleigh@debian, noticing LSB support

Yours,
Benda

Re: [gentoo-soc] [report 6.25-7.4] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC (extended to improving to OpenRC)

[Luca Barbato]

On 07/04/2012 05:31 PM, heroxbd@gmail.com wrote:
> heroxbd@gmail.com writes:
> 
>> Schedules for 6.25-7.1
>> ======================
>>

Sounds good.

Probably during this week before the midterm evaluation I'd like to
spend few days to wrap up what had been done and see if there are
changes to our end of project plans since lots happened during this time =)

lu

-- 

Luca Barbato
Gentoo/linux
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

Re: [gentoo-soc] [report 6.25-7.4] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC (extended to improving to OpenRC)

[heroxbd]

Dear Luca,

Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> writes:

> Sounds good.
>
> Probably during this week before the midterm evaluation I'd like to
> spend few days to wrap up what had been done 

OpenRC on Prefix done, but wait for WilliamH to integrate back to
upstream, and then prefix can support it officially.

Evaluation of other init systems (smf, launchd, upstart and systemd is
done by mgorny.

> and see if there are changes to our end of project plans since lots
> happened during this time =)

The new plan is that I'd like to work with rleigh from debian to
package openrc in debian and make it as an alternative init system.

What we've discussed in the beginning, such as event-driven init,
periodical events, process monitoring and crash restart are still on the
todo list.

Yours,
Benda

Re: [gentoo-soc] [report 6.25-7.4] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC (extended to improving to OpenRC)

[Luca Barbato]

On 07/05/2012 02:43 PM, heroxbd@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Luca,
> 
> Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> writes:
> 
>> Sounds good.
>>
>> Probably during this week before the midterm evaluation I'd like to
>> spend few days to wrap up what had been done 
> 
> OpenRC on Prefix done, but wait for WilliamH to integrate back to
> upstream, and then prefix can support it officially.

That's good =)

> Evaluation of other init systems (smf, launchd, upstart and systemd is
> done by mgorny.

You'll need to learn and teach us as well =)

>> and see if there are changes to our end of project plans since lots
>> happened during this time =)
> 
> The new plan is that I'd like to work with rleigh from debian to
> package openrc in debian and make it as an alternative init system.

That part is quite important, as is getting to compile LSB scripts to
openrc ones (and/or vice-versa) and possibly get openrc support /run/
directories

> What we've discussed in the beginning, such as event-driven init,
> periodical events, process monitoring and crash restart are still on the
> todo list.

That's great, do you feel confident you'll be able to get all of this done?

lu

-- 

Luca Barbato
Gentoo/linux
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

Re: [gentoo-soc] [report 6.25-7.4] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC (extended to improving to OpenRC)

[heroxbd]

Dear Luca,

Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> writes:

> That's good =)

:)

>> Evaluation of other init systems (smf, launchd, upstart and systemd is
>> done by mgorny.
>
> You'll need to learn and teach us as well =)

Though not with deep understanding :O

>>> and see if there are changes to our end of project plans since lots
>>> happened during this time =)
>> 
>> The new plan is that I'd like to work with rleigh from debian to
>> package openrc in debian and make it as an alternative init system.
>
> That part is quite important, as is getting to compile LSB scripts to
> openrc ones (and/or vice-versa) and possibly get openrc support /run/
> directories

I agree. Let me dive into it this week.

>> What we've discussed in the beginning, such as event-driven init,
>> periodical events, process monitoring and crash restart are still on
>> the todo list.
>
> That's great, do you feel confident you'll be able to get all of this
> done?

I feel these are not technically difficult. But the policies count,
besides the debates that if we really need these fancy features for an
init system. My current feeling (or planning) is that just to make dirty
ones with simple scripts to see if our community (debian is more similar
to us than fedora) really like the things. The rule of thumb is to
always make them optional, hopefully independent, components.

Yours,
Benda

Re: [gentoo-soc] [report 6.25-7.4] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC (extended to improving to OpenRC)

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 3:05 AM,  <heroxbd@gmail.com> wrote:
> Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> writes:
>>> What we've discussed in the beginning, such as event-driven init,
>>> periodical events, process monitoring and crash restart are still on
>>> the todo list.
>>
>> That's great, do you feel confident you'll be able to get all of this
>> done?
>
> I feel these are not technically difficult. But the policies count,
> besides the debates that if we really need these fancy features for an
> init system. My current feeling (or planning) is that just to make dirty
> ones with simple scripts to see if our community (debian is more similar
> to us than fedora) really like the things. The rule of thumb is to
> always make them optional, hopefully independent, components.
>

As a certified member of the peanut gallery I can testify that process
monitoring and restarting would be a very nice feature to have.
Having this sort of capability in a chroot/prefix would probably
create a bunch of possibilities.  Tools for doing this exist, but they
are weak.

I switched a VM over to systemd because it had an unstable daemon and
I wanted to try out this feature.  Since systemd places each daemon in
a cgroup it is able to fairly effectively monitor what is going on
with them.  That might be something to keep in mind if you move ahead
with this.

I don't use a laptop with Gentoo so event-driven init is less useful
personally, but I imagine that if I had one it would be very nice to
have.  Again, I'd look at what upstart/systemd are doing to avoid
re-inventing the wheel here.

Keep in mind that process restarting is actually a very standard
feature in init - we just rarely actually run daemons directly from
init.  On the occasion that I've actually stuck something in inittab
init is very diligent in propping it back up.  The challenge will be
things like hung processes that don't actually die - but we can start
with the simple case.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-soc] [report 6.25-7.4] Daemons in Gentoo Prefix with OpenRC (extended to improving to OpenRC)

[Luca Barbato]

On 07/09/2012 08:35 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:

> I switched a VM over to systemd because it had an unstable daemon and
> I wanted to try out this feature.  Since systemd places each daemon in
> a cgroup it is able to fairly effectively monitor what is going on
> with them.  That might be something to keep in mind if you move ahead
> with this.

cgroup, jail and possibly zones (linux, bsd and illumos) might be
leveraged, there is also a userspace-jail that might help in some other
cases I guess.

lu

-- 

Luca Barbato
Gentoo/linux
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero