[gentoo-server] binary kernel package

[gentoo-server] binary kernel package

[Thilo Bangert]

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Hi guys,

in the near future i am looking at installing gentoo onto a number of 
hosts. i already have a buildhost preparing binary packages for the 
clients - one of the missing pieces is the kernel install.

i'd like to avoid having to compile a kernel on each and every host. how 
do you install a prebuilt kernel onto the host, fx. after having deployed 
a stage4 using quickstart? the best thing i can come up with is writing 
my own custom script, which pulls a tarball via http. the tarball has the 
modules, the initrd and the kernel...

thanks.
kind regards
Thilo

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Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package

["Todd M. Hébert"]

If the servers are all identical hardware, I would just build one machine, then boot each other box off a live CD, and dd the contents of the entire drive/array over. (You could do this partition by partition as well.. but if you do the whole drive/array you only have to do it once.)

dd if=/dev/<DRIVE/ARRAY> | ssh root@host "dd of=/dev<DRIVE/ARRAY>"

That should do it. (as long as the hardware is identical.)  Of course.. it will take time to transfer, and you'll have to change the IP's & hostname of each server. This is a lot like making & deploying a GHOST image.. it's just skipping the "make" part and moving right to deploy.  You could also send it to a file, then DD the file into place on each host from a DVD if they're small enough (or bzip2 compress them to see if they can be made to fit.)

If you're doing machines that aren't identical, but you can use a standard structure for most disk elements (same size /boot, /, /var, /usr, etc..)  you can build one machine, create an image for each of the standard partitions, and dd those over.

You could create a tarball that has the kernel, including /boot, /usr/src, /lib/modules etc.., but you might not end up with world files that are in-step with what's actually on the machine.

I hope this is helpful.

--Todd

Thilo Bangert wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> in the near future i am looking at installing gentoo onto a number of 
> hosts. i already have a buildhost preparing binary packages for the 
> clients - one of the missing pieces is the kernel install.
> 
> i'd like to avoid having to compile a kernel on each and every host. how 
> do you install a prebuilt kernel onto the host, fx. after having deployed 
> a stage4 using quickstart? the best thing i can come up with is writing 
> my own custom script, which pulls a tarball via http. the tarball has the 
> modules, the initrd and the kernel...
> 
> thanks.
> kind regards
> Thilo

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Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package

[Thilo Bangert]

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"Todd M. Hébert" <todd@iil.ie> said:
> If the servers are all identical hardware, 

they are not - and they are not in one datacenter either :-)
they also have many different purposes (db server, web node, load balancer 
etc.)

sorry for not mentioning it.

the plan is to deploy generic (i686) stage4 images using quickstart. the 
stage4 will roughly be a stage3 + puppet. puppet will then install and 
configure the server according to its purpose.

i just can't seem to find a nice way to do the kernel image install.

> You could create a tarball that has the kernel, including /boot,
> /usr/src, /lib/modules etc.., but you might not end up with world files
> that are in-step with what's actually on the machine.

ahh, yes. /usr/src/linux - i'd almost forgot about that one...
what is it that i would need, only /usr/src/linux/include?


>
> I hope this is helpful.

it is - thanks!
regards
Thilo

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Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package

["Todd M. Hébert"]

If they are different hardware, then using the same kernel on them might not be a good idea. (Unless you're planning on using a genkernel & loading everything as modules, rather than going with a monolithic kernel.)

It sounds like a project that could end up being very complicated.

I'd probably make a base build for each hardware model, then use that to make a base-build for each server type (db etc..)

I'd end up with more base builds to deploy, but they'd still image over easily once built.

Good luck!

Thilo Bangert wrote:
> "Todd M. Hébert" <todd@iil.ie> said:
>> If the servers are all identical hardware, 
> 
> they are not - and they are not in one datacenter either :-)
> they also have many different purposes (db server, web node, load balancer 
> etc.)
> 
> sorry for not mentioning it.
> 
> the plan is to deploy generic (i686) stage4 images using quickstart. the 
> stage4 will roughly be a stage3 + puppet. puppet will then install and 
> configure the server according to its purpose.
> 
> i just can't seem to find a nice way to do the kernel image install.
> 
>> You could create a tarball that has the kernel, including /boot,
>> /usr/src, /lib/modules etc.., but you might not end up with world files
>> that are in-step with what's actually on the machine.
> 
> ahh, yes. /usr/src/linux - i'd almost forgot about that one...
> what is it that i would need, only /usr/src/linux/include?
> 
> 
>> I hope this is helpful.
> 
> it is - thanks!
> regards
> Thilo
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Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package

[Petteri Räty]

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Thilo Bangert kirjoitti:
> 
> i'd like to avoid having to compile a kernel on each and every host. how 
> do you install a prebuilt kernel onto the host, fx. after having deployed 
> a stage4 using quickstart? the best thing i can come up with is writing 
> my own custom script, which pulls a tarball via http. the tarball has the 
> modules, the initrd and the kernel...
> 

You could write an ebuild installing a binary kernel to /boot

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package

[Todd Hebert]

Wow!

That's a Gentoo-minded admin. :)

That would be easy too.. make a tarball of the binary kernel, copy the
standard kernel ebuild and add a new section to drop the binaries in place
from the new tarball, then put the new ebuild in an overlay!

Petteri, that is one very elegant idea! Kudos!  (I'll make note of it for
future kit rollouts myself!)

--Todd


-----Original Message-----
From: Petteri Räty <petteri.raty@saunalahti.fi>
To: gentoo-server@lists.gentoo.org
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:59:46 +0200
Subject: Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package

> Thilo Bangert kirjoitti:
> > 
> > i'd like to avoid having to compile a kernel on each and every host.
> how 
> > do you install a prebuilt kernel onto the host, fx. after having
> deployed 
> > a stage4 using quickstart? the best thing i can come up with is
> writing 
> > my own custom script, which pulls a tarball via http. the tarball has
> the 
> > modules, the initrd and the kernel...
> > 
> 
> You could write an ebuild installing a binary kernel to /boot
> 
> Regards,
> Petteri
> 

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Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package

[Tom Grace]

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Hi,

> i'd like to avoid having to compile a kernel on each and every host. how
> do you install a prebuilt kernel onto the host, fx. after having deployed
> a stage4 using quickstart?
Just curiosity, but what is the problem with doing a kernel compile on each
machine?
I was thinking could you config/make the kernel on one machine, then
.tar.bz2 up the whole /usr/src/linux directory, then just do the install
phase on the target machine?

Just wondering if there's a simple solution to this :)

On 10/02/2008, Todd Hebert <todd@iil.ie> wrote:
>
> Wow!
>
> That's a Gentoo-minded admin. :)
>
> That would be easy too.. make a tarball of the binary kernel, copy the
> standard kernel ebuild and add a new section to drop the binaries in place
> from the new tarball, then put the new ebuild in an overlay!
>
> Petteri, that is one very elegant idea! Kudos!  (I'll make note of it for
> future kit rollouts myself!)
>
> --Todd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Petteri Räty <petteri.raty@saunalahti.fi>
> To: gentoo-server@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:59:46 +0200
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package
>
> > Thilo Bangert kirjoitti:
> > >
> > > i'd like to avoid having to compile a kernel on each and every host.
> > how
> > > do you install a prebuilt kernel onto the host, fx. after having
> > deployed
> > > a stage4 using quickstart? the best thing i can come up with is
> > writing
> > > my own custom script, which pulls a tarball via http. the tarball has
> > the
> > > modules, the initrd and the kernel...
> > >
> >
> > You could write an ebuild installing a binary kernel to /boot
> >
> > Regards,
> > Petteri
> >
>
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>
> **********************************************************************
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> are those of the individual author/sender and are not necessarily
> shared or endorsed by Independent Newspapers (Ireland) Limited or any
> associated or related company.  The content of this Email and any file
> or attachment transmitted with it may have been changed or altered
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>
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>
>


-- 
I include the source code below for those who are masochistic enough to want
to explore it

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Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package

[RijilV]

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Might be alot of work, if you have a few hundred machines, having to go an
touch each of them to compile the kernel is going to be alot of work.  Also,
it might be ideal not to have a compiler on all of these systems.

.r'


On 10/02/2008, Tom Grace <stonertom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> > i'd like to avoid having to compile a kernel on each and every host. how
> > do you install a prebuilt kernel onto the host, fx. after having
> deployed
> > a stage4 using quickstart?
> Just curiosity, but what is the problem with doing a kernel compile on
> each machine?
> I was thinking could you config/make the kernel on one machine, then
> .tar.bz2 up the whole /usr/src/linux directory, then just do the install
> phase on the target machine?
>
> Just wondering if there's a simple solution to this :)
>
> On 10/02/2008, Todd Hebert <todd@iil.ie> wrote:
> >
> > Wow!
> >
> > That's a Gentoo-minded admin. :)
> >
> > That would be easy too.. make a tarball of the binary kernel, copy the
> > standard kernel ebuild and add a new section to drop the binaries in
> > place
> > from the new tarball, then put the new ebuild in an overlay!
> >
> > Petteri, that is one very elegant idea! Kudos!  (I'll make note of it
> > for
> > future kit rollouts myself!)
> >
> > --Todd
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Petteri Räty <petteri.raty@saunalahti.fi>
> > To: gentoo-server@lists.gentoo.org
> > Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:59:46 +0200
> > Subject: Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package
> >
> > > Thilo Bangert kirjoitti:
> > > >
> > > > i'd like to avoid having to compile a kernel on each and every host.
> > > how
> > > > do you install a prebuilt kernel onto the host, fx. after having
> > > deployed
> > > > a stage4 using quickstart? the best thing i can come up with is
> > > writing
> > > > my own custom script, which pulls a tarball via http. the tarball
> > has
> > > the
> > > > modules, the initrd and the kernel...
> > > >
> > >
> > > You could write an ebuild installing a binary kernel to /boot
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Petteri
> > >
> >
> > ----- anything below this line is required under Irish law -----
> >
> >
> > **********************************************************************
> >                 "Private Confidential & Privileged"
> > This Email and any files and attachments transmitted with it are
> > confidential and/or privileged.  They are intended solely for
> > the use of the intended recipient.  Any views and opinions expressed
> > are those of the individual author/sender and are not necessarily
> > shared or endorsed by Independent Newspapers (Ireland) Limited or any
> > associated or related company.  The content of this Email and any file
> > or attachment transmitted with it may have been changed or altered
> > without the consent of the author.  If you are not the intended
> > recipient, please note that any review, dissemination, disclosure,
> > alteration, printing, circulation or transmission of this Email and/or
> > any file or attachment transmitted with it, is prohibited and may be
> > unlawful.  If you have received this Email or any file attachment
> > transmitted with it in error, please notify support@iil.ie or contact
> > Systems Administrator Tel:  +353 (1) 411 2244
> > Internet Interaction Limited
> > 3050 Lake Drive, Citywest digital Park, Co Dublin
> > CRO # 247783
> >
> >
> > --
> > gentoo-server@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> I include the source code below for those who are masochistic enough to
> want to explore it

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Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package

[Ramon van Alteren]

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Hash: SHA1

Hi Thilo,

Thilo Bangert wrote:
| in the near future i am looking at installing gentoo onto a number of
| hosts. i already have a buildhost preparing binary packages for the
| clients - one of the missing pieces is the kernel install.
|
| i'd like to avoid having to compile a kernel on each and every host. how
| do you install a prebuilt kernel onto the host, fx. after having deployed
| a stage4 using quickstart? the best thing i can come up with is writing
| my own custom script, which pulls a tarball via http. the tarball has the
| modules, the initrd and the kernel...

What's wrong with building your stage4 with catalyst and have it include
a kernel ?

We use catalyst to generate all our install images and catalyst uses
genkernel internally to include it in the image. Just specify which
kernel you'd like and provide a .config for it.

We've installed 1300 servers that way, I'll personally guarantee you
that it works :-D

Regards,

Ramon van Alteren

Teamlead System Engineering Hyves.nl

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Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package

[Thilo Bangert]

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Ramon van Alteren <ramon@vanalteren.nl> said:
> Hi Thilo,
>
> Thilo Bangert wrote:
> | in the near future i am looking at installing gentoo onto a number of
> | hosts. i already have a buildhost preparing binary packages for the
> | clients - one of the missing pieces is the kernel install.
> |
> | i'd like to avoid having to compile a kernel on each and every host.
> | how do you install a prebuilt kernel onto the host, fx. after having
> | deployed a stage4 using quickstart? the best thing i can come up with
> | is writing my own custom script, which pulls a tarball via http. the
> | tarball has the modules, the initrd and the kernel...
>
> What's wrong with building your stage4 with catalyst and have it
> include a kernel ?

and what do you do after a weekend like this one: kernel upgrade on 1300 
hosts?

but you are right - i somehow missed that possibility.

>
> We use catalyst to generate all our install images and catalyst uses
> genkernel internally to include it in the image. Just specify which
> kernel you'd like and provide a .config for it.
>
> We've installed 1300 servers that way, I'll personally guarantee you
> that it works :-D

:)
thats more than good enough for me.
Thanks!

>
> Regards,
>
> Ramon van Alteren

kind regards
Thilo

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Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package

[Brandon Adams]

I woild assume that you would configure / build a new kernel for each
hardware spec in your farm in your test environment, verify there are
no glitches and then distibute the .config file to all servers and
cron a kernel build / installation.

The reboot required for the servers would then be done during that
server's maintenance window.


On 2/11/08, Thilo Bangert <bangert@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Ramon van Alteren <ramon@vanalteren.nl> said:
> > Hi Thilo,
> >
> > Thilo Bangert wrote:
> > | in the near future i am looking at installing gentoo onto a number of
> > | hosts. i already have a buildhost preparing binary packages for the
> > | clients - one of the missing pieces is the kernel install.
> > |
> > | i'd like to avoid having to compile a kernel on each and every host.
> > | how do you install a prebuilt kernel onto the host, fx. after having
> > | deployed a stage4 using quickstart? the best thing i can come up with
> > | is writing my own custom script, which pulls a tarball via http. the
> > | tarball has the modules, the initrd and the kernel...
> >
> > What's wrong with building your stage4 with catalyst and have it
> > include a kernel ?
>
> and what do you do after a weekend like this one: kernel upgrade on 1300
> hosts?
>
> but you are right - i somehow missed that possibility.
>
> >
> > We use catalyst to generate all our install images and catalyst uses
> > genkernel internally to include it in the image. Just specify which
> > kernel you'd like and provide a .config for it.
> >
> > We've installed 1300 servers that way, I'll personally guarantee you
> > that it works :-D
>
> :)
> thats more than good enough for me.
> Thanks!
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ramon van Alteren
>
> kind regards
> Thilo
>


-- 

[ Brandon Adams ]
bmadams at gmail dot com
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Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package

[Ramon van Alteren]

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Hash: SHA1

Brandon Adams wrote:
| I woild assume that you would configure / build a new kernel for each
| hardware spec in your farm in your test environment, verify there are
| no glitches and then distibute the .config file to all servers and
| cron a kernel build / installation.

I'd say that depends on your idea of kernel building.
We prefer a general kernel with static drivers for crucial
hardware/option and module drivers for non-crucial hardware/options

Combined with module autoloading this allows for a flexible system with
little overhead.

I know that there are several people in the security community that
advertise disabling module-loading, however consider the problems you're
in if someone is actually able to load modules on one of your servers.

| The reboot required for the servers would then be done during that
| server's maintenance window.

We're currently researching if we can reduce the maintenance down-time
for kernel reloading by using kexec. On large memory servers and
scsi/raid controllers bios re-initialization can easily take up to 10
minutes. (that's pre-bootloader)

Ramon
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Re: [gentoo-server] binary kernel package

[Ramon van Alteren]

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Thilo Bangert wrote:
| Ramon van Alteren <ramon@vanalteren.nl> said:
|> What's wrong with building your stage4 with catalyst and have it
|> include a kernel ?
|
| and what do you do after a weekend like this one: kernel upgrade on 1300
| hosts?

What would you do ?
But yes if there's a kernel vurnerability that affects our environment
we upgrade kernels on all servers starting with the internet-facing ones.

Although the question is interesting I fail to see any relevance to
installing (or upgrading) kernels in a automated manner.
Actually I'd say that if you have a trusted and well-defined automated
way to build and install/upgrade kernels you're actually better off.

|> We use catalyst to generate all our install images and catalyst uses
|> genkernel internally to include it in the image. Just specify which
|> kernel you'd like and provide a .config for it.
|>
|> We've installed 1300 servers that way, I'll personally guarantee you
|> that it works :-D
|
| :)
| thats more than good enough for me.

Grin, no thanks.
It also helps in other ways: You gain repeatable image builds including
kernels so after a weekend like this one you can easily rebuild your
kernel + image and *just* distribute the updated kernel to your serverpark.

Ramon
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