From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from <gentoo-security+bounces-827-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org>) id 1JS4Z6-0002sF-Dl for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:05:52 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B7CB4E05DE; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:05:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.186]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEED4E05D9 for <gentoo-security@lists.gentoo.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:05:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b22so2018423rvf.46 for <gentoo-security@lists.gentoo.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:05:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=J3Eimkwu7e37hz2HglJw66d0JiO+y0cj4XiWqkc6AUA=; b=YGjtNbb/pjx1MEnD5S0iku0mozMZ2bMZx/bXcn+eu2JT6a4mMi5LE0ypMYCksg49s3TpuzyBoFqZv037muiltoM0+h8wUDD8AmQ/df5oPDkWUnycvLMn+BCG9KnRRS9lBH/5kz56guuUZvf4BkYTzDp57L5Lo9dYZJjCJcl53Jc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=DR07DUXX0Z5hDJ5RP+967CsMABbmsvSKKSpQ19Cd9rmnwwAz7m80wJ8Gi1FK/380AIZXnZtagsIRA6FTZaevZzrUHHSdAX25soqY+vZadAMquRKxvbOhimB4ZTvjIBsNkc4o4GS0ePGoGXYDu4llnHYuYXMFAysP2ddNVOGF5Lo= Received: by 10.141.18.14 with SMTP id v14mr6026226rvi.242.1203573910218; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:05:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.141.114.9 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:05:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <fb3727060802202205n1e86c89es3a37034cc1abb240@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:05:10 -0500 From: "Casey Link" <unnamedrambler@gmail.com> To: gentoo-security@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-security] Kernel Security + KISS In-Reply-To: <b18fbe3c0802201916v17ae9f9fn800d8da2b01eee9f@mail.gmail.com> Precedence: bulk List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-security@lists.gentoo.org> List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-security+help@lists.gentoo.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-security+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-security+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-security.gentoo.org> X-BeenThere: gentoo-security@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-security@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <fb3727060802161457x30472ff2v970bd41902bc8de2@mail.gmail.com> <b18fbe3c0802171343t2c6999c2l3a7efe57f9fd589f@mail.gmail.com> <200802180512.35888.rbu@gentoo.org> <200802201359.55663.sysadmin@tacticalbusinesspartners.com> <1203548143.26804.29.camel@media> <b18fbe3c0802201916v17ae9f9fn800d8da2b01eee9f@mail.gmail.com> X-Archives-Salt: eb76a612-3900-4609-b9d7-083552d6b9fe X-Archives-Hash: e68c2604b3534099635514610c3e33c4 It would probably help if we knew how many people were interested. I am. +1 Casey On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Eduardo Tongson <propolice@gmail.com> wrote: > Alright how do we proceed to get this team started. > > ed*eonsec > > > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 6:55 AM, Ned Ludd <solar@gentoo.org> wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 2008-02-20 at 13:59 -0500, Harlan Lieberman-Berg wrote: > > > On Sunday 17 February 2008 23:12:35 Robert Buchholz wrote: > > > > On Sunday, 17. February 2008, Eduardo Tongson wrote: > > > > > What specific kernel knowledge is needed to get a Kernel advisory up > > > > > and running ? > > > > > > > > Between becoming aware of a vulnerability in Linux and drafting an advisory > > > > for one or all kernel sources comes the part where you review which > > > > versions of which kernel sources are affected and unaffected. You also > > > > need to pay attention to specifics of the added patchsets, which might > > > > duplicate vulnerabilities. > > > > > > > > Parts of the job can indeed be done without Kernel and C knowledge, but > > > > some cannot. So if we draft a new kernel security *team*, people without C > > > > and kernel knowledge are helpful -- some others need to have it, though. > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > To be honest, 99% of what is done in the kernel security team can be done with > > > no C knowledge at all. > > > > > > I'm not an expert C person - far from it - but I eventually became the head of > > > Kernel Security until I retired a few months ago. > > > > > > Most of it is bug handling. The major problem is a social, not a technical > > > one. Because of the manner in which our kernels are organized, a single > > > vulnerability involves checking upstream version numbers, coordinating them > > > into our downstream version numbers for all sources, checking to see if the > > > sources are effected, figuring out who to CC for the bugs, then harassing > > > them until they do it. > > > > > > Unlike other security sources, any attempt to hardmask the package is shutdown > > > instantly. The chaos that would result from a kernel hardmask, even one of > > > the lesser used ones, caused me to only successfully order one over my entire > > > career in Gentoo Kernsec... even though more around 30 would have been > > > needed. It is not infrequently that bugs will last six months without any > > > action coming about them, and users are blissfully unaware. > > > > > > I am happy to give my input as the former head of Kernel Security, but it is > > > my personal opinion that any advances in kernel security will require the > > > full cooperation of security, and letting the head of kernel security be able > > > to actually enforce threats, as that seems to be the only way bugs ever get > > > resolved. Pleading didn't work - I tried. > > > > > > -Harlan Lieberman-Berg > > > Gentoo Developer Emeritus > > > > > > Every word of what you said is painfully true. The only way to > > accomplish this would be with an Iron Fist(fail) or a team of ~15 guys > > who do nothing but patch and push new kernels and the PR that goes along > > with them every few days. > > -- > > Ned Ludd <solar@gentoo.org> > > > > > > > > -- > > gentoo-security@lists.gentoo.org mailing list > > > > > -- > gentoo-security@lists.gentoo.org mailing list > > -- gentoo-security@lists.gentoo.org mailing list