[gentoo-science] g-octave

[gentoo-science] g-octave

[Juan Aguado]

Hi,

Some months ago the octave-forge packages were removed and a new app, g-octave, were requiered to install the octave packages. I never understood why this was better since octave forge is nothing like ctan, cran or cpan and it requieres manual manteniance.

Anyway, the package and its derivatives (the octave packages it supposes to install) is completely unmantained. There are 13 open bugs that nobody cares about them, is somewhat incompatible with the current stable version of portage (try to do an "emerge -eav world" with some octave packages installed and you will see a lot of warnings that shouldn't be there), the octave forge packages are unmantained (for example, g-octave tries to install control-1.0.13, while the newest control version is 2.1.55, or image requieres media-libs/jpeg instead of virtual/jpeg, which is the only reason why I'm not using libjpeg-turbo, btw), etc.

I don't know how g-octave works, but with the old ebuild-based octave-package installation method I was able to mantain a small repo for myself if things were slow for a while. Now simply I can't install any octave package, and I'm sure I'm not the only one (there are at least 4 other guys in gentoo forums that don't like the current state of octave in gentoo).

So please, provide a solution. Re-start the maintenance of g-octave, go back to the ebuild-based thing, doing a new category if you want (the best solution for me), or do something about this, please.

Cheers,

Re: [gentoo-science] g-octave

[Thomas Kahle]

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Dear Juan,

On 17:23 Sat 17 Sep 2011, Juan Aguado wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Some months ago the octave-forge packages were removed and a new app,
> g-octave, were requiered to install the octave packages. I never
> understood why this was better since octave forge is nothing like
> ctan, cran or cpan and it requieres manual manteniance.
> 
> Anyway, the package and its derivatives (the octave packages it
> supposes to install) is completely unmantained. There are 13 open bugs
> that nobody cares about them, is somewhat incompatible with the
> current stable version of portage (try to do an "emerge -eav world"
> with some octave packages installed and you will see a lot of warnings
> that shouldn't be there), the octave forge packages are unmantained
> (for example, g-octave tries to install control-1.0.13, while the
> newest control version is 2.1.55, or image requieres media-libs/jpeg
> instead of virtual/jpeg, which is the only reason why I'm not using
> libjpeg-turbo, btw), etc.
> 
> I don't know how g-octave works, but with the old ebuild-based
> octave-package installation method I was able to mantain a small repo
> for myself if things were slow for a while. Now simply I can't install
> any octave package, and I'm sure I'm not the only one (there are at
> least 4 other guys in gentoo forums that don't like the current state
> of octave in gentoo).
> 
> So please, provide a solution. Re-start the maintenance of g-octave,
> go back to the ebuild-based thing, doing a new category if you want
> (the best solution for me), or do something about this, please.

thanks for your input.  I don't know octave at all, I just remember that
Rafael (rafaelmartins@gentoo.org) developed g-octave as a summer of code
project with a lot of zeal.  This blog-post of his seems to indicate
that he is going through some real life changes:

I'll CC him, just in case.  If things don't work out, I'll try to help
you find a solution.

Cheers,
Thomas



-- 
Thomas Kahle
http://dev.gentoo.org/~tomka/

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Re: [gentoo-science] g-octave

[Rafael Goncalves Martins]

Hi,

On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Juan Aguado <juantxorena@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Some months ago the octave-forge packages were removed and a new app, g-octave, were requiered to install the octave packages. I never understood why this was better since octave forge is nothing like ctan, cran or cpan and it requieres manual manteniance.
>
> Anyway, the package and its derivatives (the octave packages it supposes to install) is completely unmantained. There are 13 open bugs that nobody cares about them, is somewhat incompatible with the current stable version of portage (try to do an "emerge -eav world" with some octave packages installed and you will see a lot of warnings that shouldn't be there), the octave forge packages are unmantained (for example, g-octave tries to install control-1.0.13, while the newest control version is 2.1.55, or image requieres media-libs/jpeg instead of virtual/jpeg, which is the only reason why I'm not using libjpeg-turbo, btw), etc.
>
> I don't know how g-octave works, but with the old ebuild-based octave-package installation method I was able to mantain a small repo for myself if things were slow for a while. Now simply I can't install any octave package, and I'm sure I'm not the only one (there are at least 4 other guys in gentoo forums that don't like the current state of octave in gentoo).
>
> So please, provide a solution. Re-start the maintenance of g-octave, go back to the ebuild-based thing, doing a new category if you want (the best solution for me), or do something about this, please.
>
> Cheers,
>
>

I wrote a blog post about this topic, to avoid being repetitive.

http://rafaelmartins.eng.br/post/g-octave-past-present-and-future/

TL;DR: Please read the documentation.

-- 
Rafael Goncalves Martins
Gentoo Linux developer
http://rafaelmartins.eng.br/

Re: [gentoo-science] g-octave

[Juan Aguado]

> I wrote a blog post about this topic, to avoid being repetitive.
> 
> http://rafaelmartins.eng.br/post/g-octave-past-present-and-future/
> 
> TL;DR: Please read the documentation.
> 
> 

First of all, sorry if I've offended somebody. That wasn't my intention. My intention was only to show the current state of octave in gentoo.

However, I also find annoying that people assumes that I haven't read the documentation or made an effort to fix the problems.

Anyway, I find more time-consuming to log in in a github account to propose some changes and wait them to be approved than to update an ebuild of fill a bug. Not to mention thta when I try to update de g-octave database, I get this message: '"--sync" not available, please install g-octave-9999 if you want this.', and I'm forced to install a masked version of a package that, as the docs says, is not recommended to use. Not to mention that I also have real life problems and I don't have time to mess with this things.

Thanks for the update of the status, though.

Cheers,

Re: [gentoo-science] g-octave

[Rafael Goncalves Martins]

On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Juan Aguado <juantxorena@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I wrote a blog post about this topic, to avoid being repetitive.
>>
>> http://rafaelmartins.eng.br/post/g-octave-past-present-and-future/
>>
>> TL;DR: Please read the documentation.
>>
>>
>
> First of all, sorry if I've offended somebody. That wasn't my intention. My intention was only to show the current state of octave in gentoo.

Do you know how much "members" the "gentoo octave" project have?

> However, I also find annoying that people assumes that I haven't read the documentation or made an effort to fix the problems.

Each sentence you write make this more obvious.

> Anyway, I find more time-consuming to log in in a github account to propose some changes and wait them to be approved than to update an ebuild of fill a bug. Not to mention thta when I try to update de g-octave database, I get this message: '"--sync" not available, please install g-octave-9999 if you want this.', and I'm forced to install a masked version of a package that, as the docs says, is not recommended to use. Not to mention that I also have real life problems and I don't have time to mess with this things.

1) You DON'T need to use Github to update the package database.
There's a big and shiny warning on this section of the docs saying
that end-users don't need to read. Just do it if you want to help
other users. Use the --scm option of g-octave, and package.keywords to
unmask the scm packages you want to install.
2) You DON'T need to use --sync at all, g-octave can install packages
from octave-forge SVN repository with the damn --scm option.
3) stable releases of g-octave comes with a package database, that is
installed by 'emerge --config'. We do this for security reasons. The
live version obviously don't comes with a package database, then you
need the '--sync' option to get one from github.

That's it

Regards,

-- 
Rafael Goncalves Martins
Gentoo Linux developer
http://rafaelmartins.eng.br/

Re: [gentoo-science] g-octave

[Juan Aguado]

> Do you know how much "members" the "gentoo octave" project have?
My guess is that theres is only one or none.

> Each sentence you write make this more obvious.
Whatever you say.

> 1) You DON'T need to use Github to update the package database.
> There's a big and shiny warning on this section of the docs saying
> that end-users don't need to read. Just do it if you want to help
> other users. Use the --scm option of g-octave, and package.keywords to
> unmask the scm packages you want to install.
> 2) You DON'T need to use --sync at all, g-octave can install packages
> from octave-forge SVN repository with the damn --scm option.
I don't want to install the svn packages from octave-forge repository. I want to install the lastest stable packages from octave-forge. Which is something I cannot do unless I follow some instructions in the docs that, as an end user, I'm not supposed to read.

> 3) stable releases of g-octave comes with a package database, that is
> installed by 'emerge --config'. We do this for security reasons. The
> live version obviously don't comes with a package database, then you
> need the '--sync' option to get one from github.
So I can't use the lastest stable versions of octave-packages unless I use the unstable and masked software and somebody manually mantains an external database. I can't see how this is easier for the end user.

Thanks for your time, but I think is easier, faster and better for me if I mantain my own ebuild-based repo.

Cheers,

Re: [gentoo-science] g-octave

[Rafael Goncalves Martins]

On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Juan Aguado <juantxorena@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Do you know how much "members" the "gentoo octave" project have?
> My guess is that theres is only one or none.
>
>> Each sentence you write make this more obvious.
> Whatever you say.
>
>> 1) You DON'T need to use Github to update the package database.
>> There's a big and shiny warning on this section of the docs saying
>> that end-users don't need to read. Just do it if you want to help
>> other users. Use the --scm option of g-octave, and package.keywords to
>> unmask the scm packages you want to install.
>> 2) You DON'T need to use --sync at all, g-octave can install packages
>> from octave-forge SVN repository with the damn --scm option.
> I don't want to install the svn packages from octave-forge repository. I want to install the lastest stable packages from octave-forge. Which is something I cannot do unless I follow some instructions in the docs that, as an end user, I'm not supposed to read.
>
>> 3) stable releases of g-octave comes with a package database, that is
>> installed by 'emerge --config'. We do this for security reasons. The
>> live version obviously don't comes with a package database, then you
>> need the '--sync' option to get one from github.
> So I can't use the lastest stable versions of octave-packages unless I use the unstable and masked software and somebody manually mantains an external database. I can't see how this is easier for the end user.
>
> Thanks for your time, but I think is easier, faster and better for me if I mantain my own ebuild-based repo.

Oh, then you think it's easier to create a ebuild-based repo from
scratch than run 2 scripts that automatically update the package
database, and send me a pull request?

Awesome! Then go ahead please.

-- 
Rafael Goncalves Martins
Gentoo Linux developer
http://rafaelmartins.eng.br/

Re: [gentoo-science] g-octave

[Thomas Kahle]

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Rafael, 

your replies are emotional and filled with bitterness.  Please adhere to
the standards of friendly technical discussion that we are used to on
this mailing list.

Thanks,
Thomas

On 12:36 Sun 18 Sep 2011, Rafael Goncalves Martins wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Juan Aguado <juantxorena@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Do you know how much "members" the "gentoo octave" project have?
> > My guess is that theres is only one or none.
> >
> >> Each sentence you write make this more obvious.
> > Whatever you say.
> >
> >> 1) You DON'T need to use Github to update the package database.
> >> There's a big and shiny warning on this section of the docs saying
> >> that end-users don't need to read. Just do it if you want to help
> >> other users. Use the --scm option of g-octave, and package.keywords to
> >> unmask the scm packages you want to install.
> >> 2) You DON'T need to use --sync at all, g-octave can install packages
> >> from octave-forge SVN repository with the damn --scm option.
> > I don't want to install the svn packages from octave-forge repository. I want to install the lastest stable packages from octave-forge. Which is something I cannot do unless I follow some instructions in the docs that, as an end user, I'm not supposed to read.
> >
> >> 3) stable releases of g-octave comes with a package database, that is
> >> installed by 'emerge --config'. We do this for security reasons. The
> >> live version obviously don't comes with a package database, then you
> >> need the '--sync' option to get one from github.
> > So I can't use the lastest stable versions of octave-packages unless I use the unstable and masked software and somebody manually mantains an external database. I can't see how this is easier for the end user.
> >
> > Thanks for your time, but I think is easier, faster and better for me if I mantain my own ebuild-based repo.
> 
> Oh, then you think it's easier to create a ebuild-based repo from
> scratch than run 2 scripts that automatically update the package
> database, and send me a pull request?
> 
> Awesome! Then go ahead please.
> 
> -- 
> Rafael Goncalves Martins
> Gentoo Linux developer
> http://rafaelmartins.eng.br/
> 

-- 
Thomas Kahle
http://dev.gentoo.org/~tomka/

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Re: [gentoo-science] g-octave

[Thomas Kahle]

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On 11:46 Sun 18 Sep 2011, Rafael Goncalves Martins wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Juan Aguado <juantxorena@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I wrote a blog post about this topic, to avoid being repetitive.
> >>
> >> http://rafaelmartins.eng.br/post/g-octave-past-present-and-future/
> >>
> >> TL;DR: Please read the documentation.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > First of all, sorry if I've offended somebody. That wasn't my intention. My intention was only to show the current state of octave in gentoo.
> 
> Do you know how much "members" the "gentoo octave" project have?

I'll give octave I try soon.  Since I have never really used it, please
give me some time.

Cheers,
Thomas


-- 
Thomas Kahle
http://dev.gentoo.org/~tomka/

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Re: [gentoo-science] g-octave

[Rafael Goncalves Martins]

Hi Thomas,

On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Thomas Kahle <tomka@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Rafael,
>
> your replies are emotional and filled with bitterness.  Please adhere to
> the standards of friendly technical discussion that we are used to on
> this mailing list.
>

Maybe you're right, but do you saw the forums thread? some things are
too much for me, sorry.

I'm sure you don't know how g-octave works, and what this people was
trying to do without read at least the elog messages.

Regards.

-- 
Rafael Goncalves Martins
Gentoo Linux developer
http://rafaelmartins.eng.br/

Re: [gentoo-science] g-octave

[Thomas Kahle]

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On 11:21 Mon 19 Sep 2011, Rafael Goncalves Martins wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
> 
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Thomas Kahle <tomka@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Rafael,
> >
> > your replies are emotional and filled with bitterness.  Please adhere to
> > the standards of friendly technical discussion that we are used to on
> > this mailing list.
> >
> 
> Maybe you're right, but do you saw the forums thread? some things are
> too much for me, sorry.

Forums can be tough.  I tend to ignore them or at least wear my flamewar
protection goggles, that is: Ignore the trolls and try to help people
who are honestly struggling.  Ok, like I said, I'll give g-octave a try
and see if I can help out.

Cheers,
Thomas



-- 
Thomas Kahle
http://dev.gentoo.org/~tomka/

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