[gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Mike Rosset]

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I would like to request the spec files used to create the gentoo-install
livecd, where every that maybe. I could also use any custom install scripts
specific to building the cd since I need to replicate the "gentoo-install"
livecd as closely as possible.

Regards,

Michael Rosset

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Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Thu, 2005-09-22 at 22:21 -0700, Mike Rosset wrote:
> I would like to request the spec files used to create the
> gentoo-install livecd, where every that maybe.  I could also use any
> custom install scripts specific to building the cd since I need to
> replicate the "gentoo-install" livecd as closely as possible.

Honestly... not gonna happen.  At least, not any time soon.

I had to hand-hack catalyst in *many* places along with a several
hundred-line long fsscript, not to mention the unreleased gli ebuild and
other such things.  Basically, don't expect to see spec files until I
don't have to manually patch catalyst to get things to work.

Until then, I'd advise joining the gentoo-catalyst mailing list, as this
isn't really the place for catalyst help/questions.  You might also want
to check out the gentoo-catalyst archives.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Mike Rosset]

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Chris:

Thanks for your reply,

I have enjoyed using Gentoo for many projects over the years, I've also been
very impressed with all of the releng projects. Even more so with
gentoo-installer.

What I thought was a simple request for spec files seems to have turned into

a nightmare. I had Andrew kick me out of "gentoo-installer" for even
bringing it up.

To make matters worst my ideas are not far off of the relengs goals, and
that's really to promote Gentoo and to have an install method that is less
tedious.

So now I'm stuck, I honestly would love to use Gentoo and Catalyst along
with Gentoo-Installer in my project, but how can I if Gentoo is unwilling
pass on information that will allow me to achieve my goals?

Regards,

Michael Rosset


On 9/23/05, Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2005-09-22 at 22:21 -0700, Mike Rosset wrote:
> > I would like to request the spec files used to create the
> > gentoo-install livecd, where every that maybe. I could also use any
> > custom install scripts specific to building the cd since I need to
> > replicate the "gentoo-install" livecd as closely as possible.
>
> Honestly... not gonna happen. At least, not any time soon.
>
> I had to hand-hack catalyst in *many* places along with a several
> hundred-line long fsscript, not to mention the unreleased gli ebuild and
> other such things. Basically, don't expect to see spec files until I
> don't have to manually patch catalyst to get things to work.
>
> Until then, I'd advise joining the gentoo-catalyst mailing list, as this
> isn't really the place for catalyst help/questions. You might also want
> to check out the gentoo-catalyst archives.
>
> --
> Chris Gianelloni
> Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
> Games - Developer
> Gentoo Linux
>
>
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Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Andrew Gaffney]

Mike Rosset wrote:
> What I thought was a simple request for spec files seems to have turned 
> into
> a nightmare. I had Andrew kick me out of "gentoo-installer" for even 
> bringing it up.

No, I kicked you because you were being an ass and trying to claim that the GPL 
*forced* wolf31o2 to release his spec files.

-- 
Andrew Gaffney                            http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux Developer                                   Installer Project
-- 
gentoo-releng@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Mike Rosset]

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It was a dicussion, you kicked me because you didnt agree. I cant resolve my
issue if I cant discuss it.

It was actually a simple request, I have decided to forgo ever getting this
spec file any time soon. and will create my own. Which it sounds like I'll
replace later anyways... seems pointless

But I really dont see how you can expect people to give quality debugging
feed back when no help is returned, for projects that are using your
project.

I dont care about politics, I'm not a lawyer I was wrong to bring up GPL .
I'm just trying to keep conformed to the "gentoo-installer" cd. haveing the
spec file makes that alot easier.



Regards,

Michael Rosset

On 9/23/05, Andrew Gaffney <agaffney@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> Mike Rosset wrote:
> > What I thought was a simple request for spec files seems to have turned
> > into
> > a nightmare. I had Andrew kick me out of "gentoo-installer" for even
> > bringing it up.
>
> No, I kicked you because you were being an ass and trying to claim that
> the GPL
> *forced* wolf31o2 to release his spec files.
>
> --
> Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
> Gentoo Linux Developer Installer Project
> --
> gentoo-releng@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Ted Kosan]

Mike wrote:

> It was actually a simple request, I have decided to forgo ever getting this
> spec file any time soon. and will create my own. Which it sounds like I'll
> replace later anyways... seems pointless

Actually I think the request was more complex than it seemed on the surface :-)


Chris indicated that Catalyst had to be heavily modified in order to allow it
to build the Installer LiveCD which means that the spec files that were used
were probably only useful with the modified version.

My thought is that the Installer spec files are probably useless without the
modified codebase and if they were released then this would generate a flood of
distracting questions on the Installer list asking for help on how to get them
to work.  

Anyway, I am also working on a LiveCD that has capabilities that are similar to
the Installer but I have decided that the best way to do this is to take a
slower approach, dig into the Catalyst source code and try to fully understand
all of the pieced needed to achieve this.

If you are interested in using this approach too we could move this discussion
over to the catalyst list and continue it there :-)

Ted
-- 
gentoo-releng@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Mike Rosset]

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Ted,

>My thought is that the Installer spec files are >probably useless without
> the
> >modified codebase and if they were released >then this would generate a
> flood of
> >distracting questions on the Installer list asking >for help on how to
> get them
> >to work.


Not completely atleast I could have a good basis of what packages will be on
the released gentoo-install cd. That is a good point about supporting the
actually
spec files, I my self wouldnt need it but I did mention that I could over
look the scripts for now.


>Anyway, I am also working on a LiveCD that has >capabilities that are
> similar to
> >the Installer but I have decided that the best way >to do this is to take
> a
> >slower approach, dig into the Catalyst source >code and try to fully
> understand
> >all of the pieced needed to achieve this.
>
> >If you are interested in using this approach too >we could move this
> discussion
> >over to the catalyst list and continue it there :-)


Personally, creating my own installer cd is not the problem. My issue is I'd
like to keep it conformed so that when the installer cd is released, I dont
have to drop all the work I did to essiensial create what already exists.
Basically I'm not a having a problem using Catalyst.

Regards,

Michael Rosset

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Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Sat, 2005-09-24 at 00:48 -0700, Mike Rosset wrote:
> Not completely atleast I could have a good basis of what packages will
> be on the released gentoo-install cd. That is a good point about
> supporting the actually 
> spec files, I my self wouldnt need it but I did mention that I could
> over look the scripts for now. 

Take any packagecd.spec file, remove KDE.  Add it to livecd-stage1
(normal)'s livecd/packages.  You're done.  You now have my livecd-stage1
spec file.

>  Personally, creating my own installer cd is not the problem.  My
> issue is I'd like to keep it conformed so that when the installer cd
> is released, I dont have to drop all the work I did to essiensial
> create what already exists. Basically I'm not a having a problem using
> Catalyst.

There already has been an Installer CD release.  I'm going to be
creating another one sometime soon.  I am free to change them in any
way, without any prior notice, so even if you followed my *last* set of
specs, there's nothing guaranteeing that it'll be anything like my next
CD.  If you were to ask me, I'd tell you that you're wasting your time
trying to duplicate the Installer CD, as you're aiming for a moving
target.
> 
-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Mike Rosset]

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 >There already has been an Installer CD release. I'm going to be

> >creating another one sometime soon. I am free to change them in any
> >way, without any prior notice, so even if you followed my *last* set of
> >specs, there's nothing guaranteeing that it'll be anything like my next
> >CD. If you were to ask me, I'd tell you that you're wasting your time
> >trying to duplicate the Installer CD, as you're aiming for a moving
> >target.


Yes that's why I requested releasing the spec files, so I don't have to aim
for a moving target.

But in short I'm giving up on this request. And I'll recreate the livecd
myself. But to be honest I'm kinda put off over the whole process. However
I'm going to follow through with my prototyping too completion then make a
final decision.

Regards,

Michael Rosset

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Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 23:50 -0700, Ted Kosan wrote:
> Chris indicated that Catalyst had to be heavily modified in order to allow it
> to build the Installer LiveCD which means that the spec files that were used
> were probably only useful with the modified version.

They won't work on the released catalyst version.  One thing that I tend
to do when creating CD images is hard-code things into catalyst to make
it do what I want.  Since I am not distributing this modified catalyst,
there's no "GPL" requirement of any sort.  The main reason I refuse to
release it is because it all is a big, ugly, dirty hack and I'd prefer
people not see such nasty code coming from me... ;]

> My thought is that the Installer spec files are probably useless without the
> modified codebase and if they were released then this would generate a flood of
> distracting questions on the Installer list asking for help on how to get them
> to work.

Correct.

> Anyway, I am also working on a LiveCD that has capabilities that are similar to
> the Installer but I have decided that the best way to do this is to take a
> slower approach, dig into the Catalyst source code and try to fully understand
> all of the pieced needed to achieve this.

This truly is the best method, as we won't bother supporting *anyone*
trying to use gentoo-release-* as livecd/type simply because the release
livecd types *assume* that you're building a Gentoo release and will do
things for you that you may or may not want.  I've created the
generic-livecd livecd/type for others to use.  This type doesn't make
these assumptions and is designed to be more flexible.  Since we don't
use these, our spec files would probably be less than helpful.

> If you are interested in using this approach too we could move this discussion
> over to the catalyst list and continue it there :-)

I look forward to helping you on the catalyst list.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Saturday 24 September 2005 08:14, Mike Rosset wrote:
> It was a dicussion, you kicked me because you didnt agree. I cant
> resolve my issue if I cant discuss it.
>
> It was actually a simple request, I have decided to forgo ever getting
> this spec file any time soon. and will create my own. Which it sounds
> like I'll replace later anyways... seems pointless
>
> But I really dont see how you can expect people to give quality
> debugging feed back when no help is returned, for projects that are
> using your project.
>
> I dont care about politics, I'm not a lawyer I was wrong to bring up
> GPL . I'm just trying to keep conformed to the "gentoo-installer" cd.
> haveing the spec file makes that alot easier.

Please guys,

Gentoo is made for users too. Don't be overly protective, but find honour 
in the fact that he chooses to use gentoo and the installer project to 
base his work on. You should help him, and inquire what the project is 
about. If he finishes you might even ask whether you can showcase it. 
Possibly even leading to an article on newsforge (or other newssite) 
leading for POSITIVE publicity for gentoo. Not kick people out of IRC 
channels only if they don't agree with you. And indeed the GPL does not 
make you release the spec file. The open nature of gentoo should.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Lance Albertson]

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Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> On Saturday 24 September 2005 08:14, Mike Rosset wrote:
> 
>>It was a dicussion, you kicked me because you didnt agree. I cant
>>resolve my issue if I cant discuss it.
>>
>>It was actually a simple request, I have decided to forgo ever getting
>>this spec file any time soon. and will create my own. Which it sounds
>>like I'll replace later anyways... seems pointless
>>
>>But I really dont see how you can expect people to give quality
>>debugging feed back when no help is returned, for projects that are
>>using your project.
>>
>>I dont care about politics, I'm not a lawyer I was wrong to bring up
>>GPL . I'm just trying to keep conformed to the "gentoo-installer" cd.
>>haveing the spec file makes that alot easier.
> 
> 
> Please guys,
> 
> Gentoo is made for users too. Don't be overly protective, but find honour 
> in the fact that he chooses to use gentoo and the installer project to 
> base his work on. You should help him, and inquire what the project is 
> about. If he finishes you might even ask whether you can showcase it. 
> Possibly even leading to an article on newsforge (or other newssite) 
> leading for POSITIVE publicity for gentoo. Not kick people out of IRC 
> channels only if they don't agree with you. And indeed the GPL does not 
> make you release the spec file. The open nature of gentoo should.

Its sad. This is the second time I've hear of folks going into the
installer channel asking them about things/offering help and
suggestions, then getting kicked and flamed. It has certainly put a
black eye on the installer project from my point of view. Seems like
they are more afraid of someone else coming up with a better idea that
having an *open* view on the project.

-- 
Lance Albertson <ramereth@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Infrastructure | Operations Manager

---
GPG Public Key:  <http://www.ramereth.net/lance.asc>
Key fingerprint: 0423 92F3 544A 1282 5AB1  4D07 416F A15D 27F4 B742

ramereth/irc.freenode.net

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Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Andrew Gaffney]

Lance Albertson wrote:
> Its sad. This is the second time I've hear of folks going into the
> installer channel asking them about things/offering help and
> suggestions, then getting kicked and flamed. It has certainly put a
> black eye on the installer project from my point of view. Seems like
> they are more afraid of someone else coming up with a better idea that
> having an *open* view on the project.

The only time we ever kick someone from the channel (aside from when they *know* 
it's a joke) is when they are being an ass. This was definitely one of those 
times. Anyway, we could not help him. He was asking *only* for wolf31o2's spec 
files which we do *not* have. He continued to insist that we should give them to 
him bringing in the GPL (which had no bearing on the situation) and generally 
making an ass of himself. If he had behaved this way in #gentoo or #gentoo-dev, 
he would have been kicked from those channels as well.

-- 
Andrew Gaffney                            http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux Developer                                   Installer Project

-- 
gentoo-releng@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 08:42 -0500, Lance Albertson wrote:
> > Please guys,
> > 
> > Gentoo is made for users too. Don't be overly protective, but find honour 
> > in the fact that he chooses to use gentoo and the installer project to 
> > base his work on. You should help him, and inquire what the project is 
> > about. If he finishes you might even ask whether you can showcase it. 
> > Possibly even leading to an article on newsforge (or other newssite) 
> > leading for POSITIVE publicity for gentoo. Not kick people out of IRC 
> > channels only if they don't agree with you. And indeed the GPL does not 
> > make you release the spec file. The open nature of gentoo should.
> 
> Its sad. This is the second time I've hear of folks going into the
> installer channel asking them about things/offering help and
> suggestions, then getting kicked and flamed. It has certainly put a
> black eye on the installer project from my point of view. Seems like
> they are more afraid of someone else coming up with a better idea that
> having an *open* view on the project.

Great.  Shouldn't this be on the Installer list?  This really has
nothing to do with the Release Engineering team or Release Engineering
in general.

Thanks...

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-releng] request for spec files used for building gentoo-install livecd

[Mike Rosset]

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>
> >Its sad. This is the second time I've hear of folks going into the
> >installer channel asking them about things/offering help and
> >suggestions, then getting kicked and flamed. It has certainly put a
> >black eye on the installer project from my point of view. Seems like
> >they are more afraid of someone else coming up with a better idea that
> >having an *open* view on the project.
>

Like I said I'm letting the whole thing go.

Regards,

Michael Rosset

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