[gentoo-releng] alpha and x86 docs ready, rest still pending

[gentoo-releng] alpha and x86 docs ready, rest still pending

[Sven Vermeulen]

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Okay

Unless I am mistaken, only x86 (beejay) and alpha (kloeri) informed me that
the documentation in draft (for 2005.1) is release-ready, so only those two
architectures have a documentation snapshot available at
http://dev.gentoo.org/~swift/gentoo/releng.html. It contains HTML and TXT,
no PDF - you'll need to ask plasmaroo to provide those.

Other architectures: please read
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/draft/2005.1/handbook-${yourarch}.xml
and see if everything is okay. Then ping me and I'll provide you with a
snapshot for your release media.

Wkr,
      Sven Vermeulen

-- 
  Documentation project leader - Gentoo Foundation Trustee

  The Gentoo Project   <<< http://www.gentoo.org >>>

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Re: [gentoo-releng] alpha and x86 docs ready, rest still pending

[Lars Weiler]

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* Sven Vermeulen <swift@gentoo.org> [05/08/08 10:46 +0200]:
> Unless I am mistaken, only x86 (beejay) and alpha (kloeri) informed me that
> the documentation in draft (for 2005.1) is release-ready, so only those two
> architectures have a documentation snapshot available at
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~swift/gentoo/releng.html. It contains HTML and TXT,
> no PDF - you'll need to ask plasmaroo to provide those.

I didn't answered as I created the ppc-docs myself from our
current and updated handbook-draft.

Thanks for your help, but your first message was already too
late.

Regards, Lars

-- 
Lars Weiler  <pylon@gentoo.org>  +49-171-1963258
Gentoo Linux PowerPC    : Developer and Release Engineer
Gentoo Infrastructure   : CVS Administrator
Gentoo Foundation       : Trustee

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Re: [gentoo-releng] alpha and x86 docs ready, rest still pending

[Sven Vermeulen]

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On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 01:10:03PM +0200, Lars Weiler wrote:
> I didn't answered as I created the ppc-docs myself from our
> current and updated handbook-draft.
> 
> Thanks for your help, but your first message was already too
> late.

I'm quite disappointed that the Release Engineering Guidelines [1] aren't
followed. Quite a lot of developers apparently think that, once the
installation media are created, the release is done. This isn't true and to
make this more clear, the guidelines were created.

As the documentation "liason" I am of course talking about documentation.
There are a few steps mandatory in that process that seem to be forgotten
this release:

** Is the installation documentation up-to-date?

The Arch Release Coordinator should be in contact with the releng
documentation liaison at all times to ensure that the documentation released
is in sync with the release itself.

** Does the Gentoo Documentation Project (GDP) have all of the necessary
** information required for the release documentation?

The GDP requires a listing of all bootable kernels on each bootable LiveCD,
a listing of all supported boot options on each bootable LiveCD, the output
of find on a mounted CD from each category (both bootable LiveCDs and a
Packages CD), and the output of find  on a booted universal/ minimal LiveCD.
The information can be sent to the releng GDP liaison, who is listed on the
releng Project Page.


It is in my opinion also important that the Gentoo developers are aware that
a release is pending, at least 24h in advance. The Gentoo Documentation team
needs time to migrate the draft/2005.1 to the official location and prepare
to update the current Handbook (for Internet-based installations).

Where are we going at? This morning I woke up only to see massive confusion
on #gentoo-dev. No-one knew that 2005.1 was released (if it is), infra said
they weren't ready yet, the GDP wasn't informed, I found nothing on -core
except beejay's e-mail telling he left (can't blame him). Not even a message
to pr@gentoo.org or gentoo-pr@gentoo.org to discuss the Press Release.

Look, I'm not the lead PR anymore, but if someone thinks he can just add
documentation to the Gentoo Documentation Project without consulting the
GDP, I would give him a nice slap with a big catfish.


[1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/docs/release_guidelines.xml

-- 
  Documentation project leader - Gentoo Foundation Trustee

  The Gentoo Project   <<< http://www.gentoo.org >>>

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Re: [gentoo-releng] alpha and x86 docs ready, rest still pending

[Lars Weiler]

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* Sven Vermeulen <swift@gentoo.org> [05/08/08 15:12 +0200]:
> ** Is the installation documentation up-to-date?

Speaking for ppc, yes.  We had a bug with patches before we
commited anything to the draft.

> The GDP requires a listing of all bootable kernels on each bootable LiveCD,
> a listing of all supported boot options on each bootable LiveCD, the output
> of find on a mounted CD from each category (both bootable LiveCDs and a
> Packages CD), and the output of find  on a booted universal/ minimal LiveCD.
> The information can be sent to the releng GDP liaison, who is listed on the
> releng Project Page.

I never understood wherefore GDP needs the information like
kernels and that all.  If the arch-coordinator organised a
to have an up-to-date documentation, everything should be
fine.


All in all it looks like that you must have missed a lot of
communication...

Regards, Lars

-- 
Lars Weiler  <pylon@gentoo.org>  +49-171-1963258
Gentoo Linux PowerPC    : Developer and Release Engineer
Gentoo Infrastructure   : CVS Administrator
Gentoo Foundation       : Trustee

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Re: [gentoo-releng] alpha and x86 docs ready, rest still pending

[Sven Vermeulen]

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On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 05:30:31PM +0200, Lars Weiler wrote:
> I never understood wherefore GDP needs the information like
> kernels and that all.  If the arch-coordinator organised a
> to have an up-to-date documentation, everything should be
> fine.

Because we have *two* handbooks, one for the networkless installations and
one for the network based ones. The files we require are needed to verify if
the networkless instructions work properly. If an architecture team tells me
that the docs are fine, that is okay as well, as long as I get some notice
about it.

If you leave out the GDP in the release process, you'll eventually get into
trouble where releases are made and the online docs are not ready yet. 

> All in all it looks like that you must have missed a lot of
> communication...

Quite a lot, yes. Makes me wonder where that communication is happening.

-- 
  Documentation project leader - Gentoo Foundation Trustee

  The Gentoo Project   <<< http://www.gentoo.org >>>

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Re: [gentoo-releng] alpha and x86 docs ready, rest still pending

[Tobias Scherbaum]

On Mon, 2005-08-08 at 17:42 +0200, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> > All in all it looks like that you must have missed a lot of
> > communication...
> 
> Quite a lot, yes. Makes me wonder where that communication is happening.

Hrm, #gentoo-releng?

-- 
gentoo-releng@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-releng] alpha and x86 docs ready, rest still pending

[Tobias Scherbaum]

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On Mon, 2005-08-08 at 10:46 +0200, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> Unless I am mistaken, only x86 (beejay) and alpha (kloeri) informed me that
> the documentation in draft (for 2005.1) is release-ready, so only those two
> architectures have a documentation snapshot available at
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~swift/gentoo/releng.html. It contains HTML and TXT,
> no PDF - you'll need to ask plasmaroo to provide those.
> 
> Other architectures: please read
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/draft/2005.1/handbook-${yourarch}.xml
> and see if everything is okay. Then ping me and I'll provide you with a
> snapshot for your release media.

HPPA-docs are release-ready, I created the HPPA html/txt docs snapshot
myself ...

Regards,
  Tobias

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Re: [gentoo-releng] alpha and x86 docs ready, rest still pending

[Xavier Neys]

Tobias Scherbaum wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-08-08 at 17:42 +0200, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> 
>>>All in all it looks like that you must have missed a lot of
>>>communication...
>>
>>Quite a lot, yes. Makes me wonder where that communication is happening.
> 
> 
> Hrm, #gentoo-releng?

Is everyone expected to know what is being said in there?

-- 
/  Xavier Neys
\_ Gentoo Documentation Project
/  French & Internationalisation Lead
\  http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en
/\
-- 
gentoo-releng@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-releng] alpha and x86 docs ready, rest still pending

[Tobias Scherbaum]

On Mon, 2005-08-08 at 22:28 +0200, Xavier Neys wrote:
> > Hrm, #gentoo-releng?
> 
> Is everyone expected to know what is being said in there?

At least I would expect that our documentation liason in is in there and
not only dropping by from time to time.

Also it seems that Sven isn't subscribed to the releng@ alias where
things like release progress and (estimated) release date(s) have been
discussed and announced ...

Regards,
  Tobias

-- 
gentoo-releng@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-releng] alpha and x86 docs ready, rest still pending

[Sven Vermeulen]

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On Tue, Aug 09, 2005 at 06:48:15AM +0200, Tobias Scherbaum wrote:
> At least I would expect that our documentation liason in is in there and
> not only dropping by from time to time.
> 
> Also it seems that Sven isn't subscribed to the releng@ alias where
> things like release progress and (estimated) release date(s) have been
> discussed and announced ...

And how am I supposed to know that the IRC is the main development
communication platform (which, due to time zone differences, is quite
difficult to follow) and that I need to be on the releng@ alias?

What's wrong with using gentoo-releng@gentoo.org for all release engineering
stuff? What about just dropping me a note saying "hey, SwifT, care to
subscribe to releng@? There's interesting information for you there".

Wkr,
      Sven Vermeulen

-- 
  Documentation project leader - Gentoo Foundation Trustee

  The Gentoo Project   <<< http://www.gentoo.org >>>

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Re: [gentoo-releng] alpha and x86 docs ready, rest still pending

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Tue, 2005-08-09 at 12:15 +0200, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 09, 2005 at 06:48:15AM +0200, Tobias Scherbaum wrote:
> > At least I would expect that our documentation liason in is in there and
> > not only dropping by from time to time.
> > 
> > Also it seems that Sven isn't subscribed to the releng@ alias where
> > things like release progress and (estimated) release date(s) have been
> > discussed and announced ...
> 
> And how am I supposed to know that the IRC is the main development
> communication platform (which, due to time zone differences, is quite
> difficult to follow) and that I need to be on the releng@ alias?

Well, most of the releng people are in the EU, like you, so timezones
shouldn't be as much of an issue.  The normal location for most of this
stuff is the releng@gentoo.org alias, which I have added you to.  I
didn't realize that you were not on that alias before, and apologize for
any issues that may have caused.

> What's wrong with using gentoo-releng@gentoo.org for all release engineering
> stuff? What about just dropping me a note saying "hey, SwifT, care to
> subscribe to releng@? There's interesting information for you there".

We generally leave a lot of this information off-list simply because the
list is public and there is always information that we don't want the
public having before the release, as it tends to cause issues.

That being said, I think we're going to start really using the list
more.  For one, I plan on using the list to help in revising the release
guidelines before the next release.  The main problem that we've been
having with this list is the lack of response.  Looking back at 2005.0
(and 2005.1 now) I've had to practically *beg* people to even let me
know what is going on with their part of the release.  This causes
issues all around, and will not be tolerated in the future.  Anyway,
enough ranting...

I'd just like to ask for your forgiveness for the problems with this
release and communications with the GDP, as it was my responsibility.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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