[gentoo-python] Naming of PyPy and PyPy3 executables

[gentoo-python] Naming of PyPy and PyPy3 executables

[Michał Górny]

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Hello,

Let's open an official discussion about this.


First of all, what happens on Gentoo. The PyPy's build process creates
an executable named 'pypy-c'. We install it with this name, and symlink
as /usr/bin/pypy-cX.Y for each PyPy version. We don't do any 'common'
wrapper for PyPy.

Upstream's packaging scripts, however, rename the 'pypy-c' executable
to 'pypy'. All other distros I have checked (Arch, Debian, Fedora,
Ubuntu) install a single /usr/bin/pypy for them. They don't support
multiple versions though.

At the point, it seems reasonable to drop our '-c' addition and just
use 'pypyX.Y' (+ 'pypy') instead. We could do this starting with 2.1
but...


Since v2.1, PyPy has been 'split' into PyPy and PyPy3, the former being
Python2 variant and the latter Python3. Both share the same versions
(that is, there's PyPy 2.1 and PyPy3 2.1).

From what floppym checked, the build process builds plain 'pypy-c'
as well. Alike regular PyPy, upstream's scripts rename it to 'pypy'.

Since PyPy3 is still in beta, only Arch Linux has packages for it. It
installs a single /usr/bin/pypy3 (what a surprise).


This raises the question: how should we name our PyPy executables?
While I really like the 'pypyX.Y' idea, I don't really want to see
'pypy32.1' :). We could go for 'pypy-X.Y' and 'pypy3-X.Y' but that would
be inconsistent with CPython (pythonX.Y) and Jython (jythonX.Y0).
A somehow ugly alternative would be to use 'pypy-cX.Y' and 'pypy3-cX.Y'
but that is quite a custom invention.

Your thoughts?

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

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[gentoo-python] Re: Naming of PyPy and PyPy3 executables

[Mike Gilbert]

On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Let's open an official discussion about this.
>
>
> First of all, what happens on Gentoo. The PyPy's build process creates
> an executable named 'pypy-c'. We install it with this name, and symlink
> as /usr/bin/pypy-cX.Y for each PyPy version. We don't do any 'common'
> wrapper for PyPy.
>
> Upstream's packaging scripts, however, rename the 'pypy-c' executable
> to 'pypy'. All other distros I have checked (Arch, Debian, Fedora,
> Ubuntu) install a single /usr/bin/pypy for them. They don't support
> multiple versions though.
>
> At the point, it seems reasonable to drop our '-c' addition and just
> use 'pypyX.Y' (+ 'pypy') instead. We could do this starting with 2.1
> but...
>
>
> Since v2.1, PyPy has been 'split' into PyPy and PyPy3, the former being
> Python2 variant and the latter Python3. Both share the same versions
> (that is, there's PyPy 2.1 and PyPy3 2.1).
>
> From what floppym checked, the build process builds plain 'pypy-c'
> as well. Alike regular PyPy, upstream's scripts rename it to 'pypy'.
>
> Since PyPy3 is still in beta, only Arch Linux has packages for it. It
> installs a single /usr/bin/pypy3 (what a surprise).
>
>
> This raises the question: how should we name our PyPy executables?
> While I really like the 'pypyX.Y' idea, I don't really want to see
> 'pypy32.1' :). We could go for 'pypy-X.Y' and 'pypy3-X.Y' but that would
> be inconsistent with CPython (pythonX.Y) and Jython (jythonX.Y0).
> A somehow ugly alternative would be to use 'pypy-cX.Y' and 'pypy3-cX.Y'
> but that is quite a custom invention.
>
> Your thoughts?
>

How about pypypy2.1? ;-)

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[gentoo-python] Re: Naming of PyPy and PyPy3 executables

[Marien Zwart]

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> This raises the question: how should we name our PyPy executables?
> While I really like the 'pypyX.Y' idea, I don't really want to see
> 'pypy32.1' :). We could go for 'pypy-X.Y' and 'pypy3-X.Y' but that would
> be inconsistent with CPython (pythonX.Y) and Jython (jythonX.Y0).
> A somehow ugly alternative would be to use 'pypy-cX.Y' and 'pypy3-cX.Y'
> but that is quite a custom invention.

I believe Jython follows CPython's versioning. If PyPy supports python
2 and 3 using differently-named binaries from the same PyPy version
(which doesn't follow any particular CPython version) we'll either
have to deviate from PyPy's version number in how we name our
binaries, or be inconsistent with CPython/Jython in how we name them.

I think your pypy-x.y / pypy3-x.y suggestion could work.

An alternative would be to include the version of the bundled CPython
stdlib into the name. Unfortunately (for the naming scheme) I think
we'd still want to support simultaneous installation of different PyPy
versions with the same bundled stdlib version, so we'd then have to
stick both into the installed binary's version number (pypy2.7-2.1,
pypy3.2-2.1). We could then add some symlinks, so we'd have pypy3.2
and pypy3 counterparts to python3.2 and python3. Having those would
appeal to me, but (if we want to support multiple PyPy versions per
CPython stdlib version) that's a lot of extra wrappers floating
around.

So I think your simpler approach (pypy-2.1, pypy3-2.1) would be best
for now. We'll have to keep an eye out for what other distros and
upstream do.
-- 

Marien Zwart (marienz on freenode)

Re: [gentoo-python] Re: Naming of PyPy and PyPy3 executables

[Michał Górny]

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Dnia 2013-08-19, o godz. 20:43:05
Marien Zwart <marienz@gentoo.org> napisał(a):

> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > This raises the question: how should we name our PyPy executables?
> > While I really like the 'pypyX.Y' idea, I don't really want to see
> > 'pypy32.1' :). We could go for 'pypy-X.Y' and 'pypy3-X.Y' but that would
> > be inconsistent with CPython (pythonX.Y) and Jython (jythonX.Y0).
> > A somehow ugly alternative would be to use 'pypy-cX.Y' and 'pypy3-cX.Y'
> > but that is quite a custom invention.
> 
> I believe Jython follows CPython's versioning. If PyPy supports python
> 2 and 3 using differently-named binaries from the same PyPy version
> (which doesn't follow any particular CPython version) we'll either
> have to deviate from PyPy's version number in how we name our
> binaries, or be inconsistent with CPython/Jython in how we name them.
> 
> I think your pypy-x.y / pypy3-x.y suggestion could work.
> 
> An alternative would be to include the version of the bundled CPython
> stdlib into the name. Unfortunately (for the naming scheme) I think
> we'd still want to support simultaneous installation of different PyPy
> versions with the same bundled stdlib version, so we'd then have to
> stick both into the installed binary's version number (pypy2.7-2.1,
> pypy3.2-2.1). We could then add some symlinks, so we'd have pypy3.2
> and pypy3 counterparts to python3.2 and python3. Having those would
> appeal to me, but (if we want to support multiple PyPy versions per
> CPython stdlib version) that's a lot of extra wrappers floating
> around.

That sounds like a lot of effort with no real gain.

> So I think your simpler approach (pypy-2.1, pypy3-2.1) would be best
> for now. We'll have to keep an eye out for what other distros and
> upstream do.

Other distros didn't support having multiple PyPy versions before.
I mean, we can expect them to have just one PyPy + PyPy 3.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

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Re: [gentoo-python] Re: Naming of PyPy and PyPy3 executables

[Dirkjan Ochtman]

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Marien Zwart <marienz@gentoo.org> wrote:
> So I think your simpler approach (pypy-2.1, pypy3-2.1) would be best
> for now. We'll have to keep an eye out for what other distros and
> upstream do.

+1, I think this would be okay for now.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

Re: [gentoo-python] Naming of PyPy and PyPy3 executables

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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${PN}, ${SLOT}, ${PV} and installational directory also need to be discussed.

I suggest:
  - PyPy 2.1 implementing Python 2.7:
      PN="pypy"
      PV="2.1-r200"
      SLOT="2.1-2"
      Symlink of interpreter: /usr/bin/pypy2-2.1  or  /usr/bin/pypy2.1-2
      Installational directory: /usr/$(get_libdir)/pypy2.1-2

  - PyPy 2.1 implementing Python 3.2:
      PN="pypy"
      PV="2.1-r300"
      SLOT="2.1-3"
      Symlink of interpreter: /usr/bin/pypy3-2.1  or  /usr/bin/pypy2.1-3
      Installational directory: /usr/$(get_libdir)/pypy2.1-3

--
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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