[gentoo-python] [RFC] Creating Python project overlay

[gentoo-python] [RFC] Creating Python project overlay

[Kacper Kowalik]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 607 bytes --]

Hi all,
I'd like to propose that we create and maintain overlay for Python
project. As I envision it, it would mostly oriented towards the users
(read new developers). We could encourage people to push new version
bumps there, keep packages not-yet-ready for tree (alphas,betas,rc) etc.

Nice thing to do (already tested with Science overlay) is to have it
outside of distro infrastructure, on publicly available site like
github/bitbucket/<place you choice here>. It allows for reviewing quite
nicely, also enforces basic knowledge of forking, merging working with
PRs etc.

Cheers,
Kacper


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 900 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-python] [RFC] Creating Python project overlay

[Dirkjan Ochtman]

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Kacper Kowalik <xarthisius@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I'd like to propose that we create and maintain overlay for Python
> project. As I envision it, it would mostly oriented towards the users
> (read new developers). We could encourage people to push new version
> bumps there, keep packages not-yet-ready for tree (alphas,betas,rc) etc.

Can you say something about what/how this would make things better
(either for users/almost-developer holdouts or for us)?

Cheers,

Dirkjan

Re: [gentoo-python] [RFC] Creating Python project overlay

[Kacper Kowalik]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1340 bytes --]

On 05/16/2012 02:29 PM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Kacper Kowalik <xarthisius@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> I'd like to propose that we create and maintain overlay for Python
>> project. As I envision it, it would mostly oriented towards the users
>> (read new developers). We could encourage people to push new version
>> bumps there, keep packages not-yet-ready for tree (alphas,betas,rc) etc.
> 
> Can you say something about what/how this would make things better
> (either for users/almost-developer holdouts or for us)?

Taking vesion bump as an example:

1) Current workflow - user attaches ebuild/diff to bugzi, you `bugz
attachment` it, do all fixes, commit to tree or reject entirely, leaving
a comment on bugzilla. Sometimes it's possible to interact via IRC.

2) Overlay workflow - user issues a PR, you can comment on per-line
basis that stays with the code (and can for example later serve for
creating "common mistakes made in ebuilds"), you can patch ebuild on-the
spot and request user to take it back and test it, etc. The history of
changes stays behind in an easy accessible place.

I'd compare 1) as doing vcs as adding current date to filename, and 2)
as doing vcs with vcs :)
Additionally 2) gives you nice web UI and some users find it appealing.

Cheers,
Kacper


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 900 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-python] [RFC] Creating Python project overlay

[Kacper Kowalik]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 932 bytes --]

On 05/16/2012 02:29 PM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Kacper Kowalik <xarthisius@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> I'd like to propose that we create and maintain overlay for Python
>> project. As I envision it, it would mostly oriented towards the users
>> (read new developers). We could encourage people to push new version
>> bumps there, keep packages not-yet-ready for tree (alphas,betas,rc) etc.
> 
> Can you say something about what/how this would make things better
> (either for users/almost-developer holdouts or for us)?

Also forgot to mentioned that, overlay is the only place where you can
learn the Gentoo workflow, _before_ becoming an actual dev.
In overlay you can do things like, repoman commit, manifest signing,
package{.use} masking etc. That's IMO invaluable experience for would-be
dev. It's one thing writing about it in quizzes and another actually
doing it.

Kacper



[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 900 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-python] [RFC] Creating Python project overlay

[Michał Górny]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 684 bytes --]

On Wed, 16 May 2012 14:29:49 +0200
Dirkjan Ochtman <djc@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Kacper Kowalik
> <xarthisius@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > I'd like to propose that we create and maintain overlay for Python
> > project. As I envision it, it would mostly oriented towards the
> > users (read new developers). We could encourage people to push new
> > version bumps there, keep packages not-yet-ready for tree
> > (alphas,betas,rc) etc.
> 
> Can you say something about what/how this would make things better
> (either for users/almost-developer holdouts or for us)?

Ability to use anything-else-than-CVS? :P

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 316 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-python] [RFC] Creating Python project overlay

[Matthew Summers]

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Kacper Kowalik <xarthisius@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Nice thing to do (already tested with Science overlay) is to have it
> outside of distro infrastructure, on publicly available site like
> github/bitbucket/<place you choice here>. It allows for reviewing quite
> nicely, also enforces basic knowledge of forking, merging working with
> PRs etc.

I like the general idea you have here. I think it will make
collaboration much easier. I would add a word of caution regarding
extra-gentoo infra. Not everyone will want to use these services.
Further, the concept of a "pull request" is a shiny gui wrapper around
git-format-patch and the git-apply/git-am workflow, or so it seems to
me.

I suggest we use g.o.g.o for the proper master and mirror (auto via a
hook) out to various services like github, etc. Then we can easily
merge in changes from any service.

This does bring up an related question regarding the idea of official
(or semi-official) gentoo repos using external service providers. I
note that github has an "organization" called "gentoo" already [1].
Anyone know about who set this up? Are there other examples of this?
We should use our trademarked name where possible. (I think I will ask
around about the github org bit.)

I would love to see gentoo encourage contrib, in the way you outline
Kacper, all across the project.

Cheers,
Matt

[1] https://github.com/gentoo
-- 
Matthew W. Summers
Gentoo Foundation Inc.

Re: [gentoo-python] [RFC] Creating Python project overlay

[Kacper Kowalik]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2486 bytes --]

On 16.05.2012 18:35, Matthew Summers wrote:
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Kacper Kowalik <xarthisius@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Nice thing to do (already tested with Science overlay) is to have it
>> outside of distro infrastructure, on publicly available site like
>> github/bitbucket/<place you choice here>. It allows for reviewing quite
>> nicely, also enforces basic knowledge of forking, merging working with
>> PRs etc.
> 
> I like the general idea you have here. I think it will make
> collaboration much easier. I would add a word of caution regarding
> extra-gentoo infra. Not everyone will want to use these services.
> Further, the concept of a "pull request" is a shiny gui wrapper around
> git-format-patch and the git-apply/git-am workflow, or so it seems to
> me.
It's exactly that. Yet, I've never received git-format-patch from user.
At the beginning git's native commands maybe a little more frightening
than "clickable" interface. However, with upcoming (hopefully) git
migration that should become more popular.

> I suggest we use g.o.g.o for the proper master and mirror (auto via a
> hook) out to various services like github, etc. Then we can easily
> merge in changes from any service.
That's what we did with Gentoo Science Project's repo. No hook is
necessary, just configuring your local git clone[1] and git push/pull
--all is enough.

> This does bring up an related question regarding the idea of official
> (or semi-official) gentoo repos using external service providers. I
> note that github has an "organization" called "gentoo" already [1].
> Anyone know about who set this up? Are there other examples of this?
I think that one (github.com/gentoo) is unrelated. Semi-official are
beforemention sci repo and Haskell guys[2]
> We should use our trademarked name where possible. (I think I will ask
> around about the github org bit.)
> 
> I would love to see gentoo encourage contrib, in the way you outline
> Kacper, all across the project.

Some of your concerns (and possibly other things) were also discussed on
gentoo-science mailing list, when we were migrating to github[3]

I'm also not insisting at all that it should be github, if we decide to
do it. I know some people detest it :)

Cheers,
Kacper

[1] https://github.com/gentoo-science/sci/wiki
[2] https://github.com/gentoo-haskell/gentoo-haskell
[3]
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-science/msg_d9f2188fec0e1740a7e966b81d6931c0.xml


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 900 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-python] [RFC] Creating Python project overlay

[Kacper Kowalik]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 132 bytes --]

Hi,
since the were no negative responses so far, I'll ask infra to create
new repo and setup github mirror.
Cheers,
Kacper



[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 900 bytes --]