[gentoo-python] [RFC] Timeline for Python 3.6 adoption

[gentoo-python] [RFC] Timeline for Python 3.6 adoption

[Michał Górny]

Hi, everyone.

I think we've reached the point where we should start discussing
switching the defaults to Python 3.6.  I would like to gather your
opinion the following ideas.

Firstly, I'd like to do two changes simultaneously to reduce --newuse
rebuilds:

a. switching from CPython 3.5 to 3.6,

b. disabling CPython 3.4.

I'm thinking of a soft deadline on 2018-06-01, i.e. giving developers
a full month to prepare.  If things don't go well, we can always
postpone it.

According to my lists, we only have 6 packages relying on py3.4 right
now [1] and no pending stabilizations for that.  I will report bugs for
those packages today.

The list for 3.5->3.6 migration is longer [2].  However, it seems that
many of those packages are rather isolated [3] and apparently
unmaintained.  Apparently the biggest targets are OpenStack
and Flask.  It's all doable.

What do you think?

[1]:https://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/gpyutils/34-to-35.txt
[2]:https://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/gpyutils/35-to-36.txt
[3]:https://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/gpyutils/35-to-36.svg

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

[gentoo-python] Re: [RFC] Timeline for Python 3.6 adoption

[Mike Gilbert]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 9:03 AM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Hi, everyone.
>
> I think we've reached the point where we should start discussing
> switching the defaults to Python 3.6.  I would like to gather your
> opinion the following ideas.
>
> Firstly, I'd like to do two changes simultaneously to reduce --newuse
> rebuilds:
>
> a. switching from CPython 3.5 to 3.6,
>
> b. disabling CPython 3.4.
>
> I'm thinking of a soft deadline on 2018-06-01, i.e. giving developers
> a full month to prepare.  If things don't go well, we can always
> postpone it.
>
> According to my lists, we only have 6 packages relying on py3.4 right
> now [1] and no pending stabilizations for that.  I will report bugs for
> those packages today.
>
> The list for 3.5->3.6 migration is longer [2].  However, it seems that
> many of those packages are rather isolated [3] and apparently
> unmaintained.  Apparently the biggest targets are OpenStack
> and Flask.  It's all doable.
>
> What do you think?

June 1 seems a little optimistic to me, but as you said we can push it
out if needed.

This plan makes sense to me.

Re: [gentoo-python] Re: [RFC] Timeline for Python 3.6 adoption

[Patrick McLean]

On 2018-04-27 09:05 AM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 9:03 AM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>
>> Firstly, I'd like to do two changes simultaneously to reduce --newuse
>> rebuilds:
>>
>> a. switching from CPython 3.5 to 3.6,
>>
>> b. disabling CPython 3.4.

I assume you mean remove from the default PYTHON_TARGETS, not disable it
completely? I would wait until after python 3.4 is no longer getting
updates before removing it from the eclass and the tree.

>>
>> I'm thinking of a soft deadline on 2018-06-01, i.e. giving developers
>> a full month to prepare.  If things don't go well, we can always
>> postpone it.
>>
>> According to my lists, we only have 6 packages relying on py3.4 right
>> now [1] and no pending stabilizations for that.  I will report bugs for
>> those packages today.
>>
>> The list for 3.5->3.6 migration is longer [2].  However, it seems that
>> many of those packages are rather isolated [3] and apparently
>> unmaintained.  Apparently the biggest targets are OpenStack
>> and Flask.  It's all doable.
>>
>> What do you think?
> 
> June 1 seems a little optimistic to me, but as you said we can push it
> out if needed.
> 
> This plan makes sense to me.
> 

Re: [gentoo-python] Re: [RFC] Timeline for Python 3.6 adoption

[Michał Górny]

W dniu pią, 27.04.2018 o godzinie 17∶56 -0700, użytkownik Patrick McLean
napisał:
> On 2018-04-27 09:05 AM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 9:03 AM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Firstly, I'd like to do two changes simultaneously to reduce --newuse
> > > rebuilds:
> > > 
> > > a. switching from CPython 3.5 to 3.6,
> > > 
> > > b. disabling CPython 3.4.
> 
> I assume you mean remove from the default PYTHON_TARGETS, not disable it
> completely? I would wait until after python 3.4 is no longer getting
> updates before removing it from the eclass and the tree.

I meant disabling it completely.  The default is 3.5 for a long time
already, and there is no reason to expect people to go back and test
their packages against 3.4.  The plan was to support only one Python 3.x
release behind current stable.

> 
> > > 
> > > I'm thinking of a soft deadline on 2018-06-01, i.e. giving developers
> > > a full month to prepare.  If things don't go well, we can always
> > > postpone it.
> > > 
> > > According to my lists, we only have 6 packages relying on py3.4 right
> > > now [1] and no pending stabilizations for that.  I will report bugs for
> > > those packages today.
> > > 
> > > The list for 3.5->3.6 migration is longer [2].  However, it seems that
> > > many of those packages are rather isolated [3] and apparently
> > > unmaintained.  Apparently the biggest targets are OpenStack
> > > and Flask.  It's all doable.
> > > 
> > > What do you think?
> > 
> > June 1 seems a little optimistic to me, but as you said we can push it
> > out if needed.
> > 
> > This plan makes sense to me.
> > 
> 
> 

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

Re: [gentoo-python] Re: [RFC] Timeline for Python 3.6 adoption

[Patrick McLean]

On 2018-04-28 12:00 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> W dniu pią, 27.04.2018 o godzinie 17∶56 -0700, użytkownik Patrick McLean
> napisał:
>> On 2018-04-27 09:05 AM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 9:03 AM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Firstly, I'd like to do two changes simultaneously to reduce --newuse
>>>> rebuilds:
>>>>
>>>> a. switching from CPython 3.5 to 3.6,
>>>>
>>>> b. disabling CPython 3.4.
>>
>> I assume you mean remove from the default PYTHON_TARGETS, not disable it
>> completely? I would wait until after python 3.4 is no longer getting
>> updates before removing it from the eclass and the tree.
> 
> I meant disabling it completely.  The default is 3.5 for a long time
> already, and there is no reason to expect people to go back and test
> their packages against 3.4.  The plan was to support only one Python 3.x
> release behind current stable.>>>>
>>>> I'm thinking of a soft deadline on 2018-06-01, i.e. giving developers
>>>> a full month to prepare.  If things don't go well, we can always
>>>> postpone it.
>>>>

IMHO, it would be better to wait until upstream deprecates Python 3.4
before we disable/drop it. There are downstreams (my employer for one,
and I am sure we are not the only ones) that are still using it, and
have plans in place to migrate by the upstream deprecation date.

>>>> According to my lists, we only have 6 packages relying on py3.4 right
>>>> now [1] and no pending stabilizations for that.  I will report bugs for
>>>> those packages today.
>>>>
>>>> The list for 3.5->3.6 migration is longer [2].  However, it seems that
>>>> many of those packages are rather isolated [3] and apparently
>>>> unmaintained.  Apparently the biggest targets are OpenStack
>>>> and Flask.  It's all doable.
>>>>

Re: [gentoo-python] Re: [RFC] Timeline for Python 3.6 adoption

[Michał Górny]

W dniu śro, 09.05.2018 o godzinie 13∶30 -0700, użytkownik Patrick McLean
napisał:
> 
> On 2018-04-28 12:00 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> > W dniu pią, 27.04.2018 o godzinie 17∶56 -0700, użytkownik Patrick McLean
> > napisał:
> > > On 2018-04-27 09:05 AM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 9:03 AM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Firstly, I'd like to do two changes simultaneously to reduce --newuse
> > > > > rebuilds:
> > > > > 
> > > > > a. switching from CPython 3.5 to 3.6,
> > > > > 
> > > > > b. disabling CPython 3.4.
> > > 
> > > I assume you mean remove from the default PYTHON_TARGETS, not disable it
> > > completely? I would wait until after python 3.4 is no longer getting
> > > updates before removing it from the eclass and the tree.
> > 
> > I meant disabling it completely.  The default is 3.5 for a long time
> > already, and there is no reason to expect people to go back and test
> > their packages against 3.4.  The plan was to support only one Python 3.x
> > release behind current stable.>>>>
> > > > > I'm thinking of a soft deadline on 2018-06-01, i.e. giving developers
> > > > > a full month to prepare.  If things don't go well, we can always
> > > > > postpone it.
> > > > > 
> 
> IMHO, it would be better to wait until upstream deprecates Python 3.4
> before we disable/drop it. There are downstreams (my employer for one,
> and I am sure we are not the only ones) that are still using it, and
> have plans in place to migrate by the upstream deprecation date.
> 

Agreed.  I'll also include its deprecation date in the announcement
to remind people.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

Re: [gentoo-python] Re: [RFC] Timeline for Python 3.6 adoption

[Patrick McLean]

On 2018-04-27 09:05 AM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 9:03 AM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>
>> Firstly, I'd like to do two changes simultaneously to reduce --newuse
>> rebuilds:
>>
>> a. switching from CPython 3.5 to 3.6,
>>
>> b. disabling CPython 3.4.

I assume you mean remove from the default PYTHON_TARGETS, not disable it
completely? I would wait until after python 3.4 is no longer getting
updates before removing it from the eclass and the tree.

>>
>> I'm thinking of a soft deadline on 2018-06-01, i.e. giving developers
>> a full month to prepare.  If things don't go well, we can always
>> postpone it.
>>
>> According to my lists, we only have 6 packages relying on py3.4 right
>> now [1] and no pending stabilizations for that.  I will report bugs for
>> those packages today.
>>
>> The list for 3.5->3.6 migration is longer [2].  However, it seems that
>> many of those packages are rather isolated [3] and apparently
>> unmaintained.  Apparently the biggest targets are OpenStack
>> and Flask.  It's all doable.
>>
>> What do you think?
> 
> June 1 seems a little optimistic to me, but as you said we can push it
> out if needed.
> 
> This plan makes sense to me.
> 

Re: [gentoo-python] [RFC] Timeline for Python 3.6 adoption

[Michał Górny]

W dniu pią, 27.04.2018 o godzinie 15∶03 +0200, użytkownik Michał Górny
napisał:
> Hi, everyone.
> 
> I think we've reached the point where we should start discussing
> switching the defaults to Python 3.6.  I would like to gather your
> opinion the following ideas.
> 
> Firstly, I'd like to do two changes simultaneously to reduce --newuse
> rebuilds:
> 
> a. switching from CPython 3.5 to 3.6,
> 
> b. disabling CPython 3.4.
> 
> I'm thinking of a soft deadline on 2018-06-01, i.e. giving developers
> a full month to prepare.  If things don't go well, we can always
> postpone it.
> 
> According to my lists, we only have 6 packages relying on py3.4 right
> now [1] and no pending stabilizations for that.  I will report bugs for
> those packages today.
> 
> The list for 3.5->3.6 migration is longer [2].  However, it seems that
> many of those packages are rather isolated [3] and apparently
> unmaintained.  Apparently the biggest targets are OpenStack
> and Flask.  It's all doable.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> [1]:https://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/gpyutils/34-to-35.txt
> [2]:https://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/gpyutils/35-to-36.txt
> [3]:https://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/gpyutils/35-to-36.svg
> 

Since I've failed to announce it earlier, the dates are going to shift
a bit.  I'll also prepare a news item.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny