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From: Steve Long <slong@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk>
Subject: [gentoo-project] Another 2 bite the dust
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:01:47 +0100
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Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
> There are few brutal developers here that make Gentoo a terrible place
> to be. Well... I can handle few developers, but when devrel enters the
> picture with arguments such as "volunteers can do crappy job as long
> as they have fun" enough is enough.
>
Ouch.
> I signed-up to work on distribution if I have fun in the process it is
> great! But always keep in mind the delivery I provide to users.
>
Thanks for that, believe me we appreciate the few who speak out in favour of
that (except when it's a naked attempt at politicking ofc.)
> Gentoo has some fundamental issues, the obvious one is lack of
> leadership. There is *NOBODY* that formally responsible or cares about
> the delivery Gentoo (AS A WHOLE) provide to its users. The council is
> just a political body that discuss the void issues.
>
Well I'd hope the new Trustees would. They still need a month or two to
agree constitutional matters aiui. Not that that precludes them from acting
on any non-technical issues.
> As a result the laud and brutal developers dictate the tune. With no
> proper mechanism to decide if a decision that was taken aligns with
> Gentoo goals.
>
> The devrel process is ridiculous, as proxy between developers without
> ability to determine anything does not help anyone.
>
Hmm have to admit I haven't had much fun with devrel (users are allowed to
complain via devrel, so long as they've gone thru userrel which believe me
is toothless based on my experience.) Seems like devrel has too much say
and userrel too little?
> During the short time I was around Gentoo lost some of the best
> developers that were around, due to similar reasons.
>
> If Gentoo community cannot provide its own goals, at least it should
> embrace standards. Compliant to standards may resolve many conflicts.
> Roy worked hard to make Gentoo POSIX shell compliant, but this was not
> accepted, but imagine fully Gentoo work with busybox based system,
> isn't this an advantage we have? especially on small systems.
Sure it would be. But c'mon man you really don't need full toolchain build
capability on your *embedded* system. Anyone who tells you you do either
has an ulterior motive or is simply ignorant. And no, you don't need it on
your mobile phone either ;) Weigh that up against the inconvenience of only
writing in sh. (Yeah you can do it, but you're using the lowest common
denominator from about 20 years ago.) Now zsh and ksh builds, *that* would
be fun ;)
> I
> appreciate flameeyes work on reducing the system size, I am aware how
> hard it is. There are new violations of HFS in Gentoo, but nobody
> cares.
>
Well FHS is good and all, but some of it's questionable (like sticking all
of /usr/etc in /etc instead of just allowing an admin to symlink if he's
that lazy.)
> Jacub, one of the best developers around that actually cared about the
> service we provide to our users was suspended while trying to do so,
> and now he is not active anymore.
>
Yeah they'll fsck up quick without him imo. They did when they suspended
him, and they weren't exactly gracious about asking him back, despite their
clear desperation. Seems like pride is the hardest thing to swallow ;)
> Gentoo is built on a lot of inexperienced students
++ NeddySeagoon talks about this a lot.
> Have fun,
> Alon.
Thanks for all the work you put in (same to r3pek.) I hope they're still
doing the "freeze your acct for 30 days just in case you come back" thing.
Regards,
steveL.
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