From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JPdSA-00078U-OH for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:44:38 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B53DE066F; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:44:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53908E066F for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:44:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB2D65CF6 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:44:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gentoo.org X-Spam-Score: 0.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.399 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, SARE_UNSUB22=0.948] Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TgleXa6Bl548 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:44:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD73A65CEF for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:44:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1JPdRw-0003rq-Lb for gentoo-project@gentoo.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:44:24 +0000 Received: from 91.84.99.71 ([91.84.99.71]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:44:24 +0000 Received: from slong by 91.84.99.71 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:44:24 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org From: Steve Long Subject: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-nfp] Re: How to improve the trustees Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:51:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1202046556l.2718l.0l@spike> <47A5F083.8020605@liquidustech.com> <1202064418l.3242l.0l@spike> <47A6211F.4000104@gmail.com> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 91.84.99.71 User-Agent: KNode/0.10.5 Sender: news X-Archives-Salt: cfcd01d3-addc-4910-9eb9-36b1a4905b3c X-Archives-Hash: c4cb7d4e24aaab6660f0805fbeee46b9 George Prowse wrote: > Roy Bamford wrote: >> On 2008.02.03 16:49, Matthew Summers wrote: >>> Roy Bamford wrote: >>>> Many new users come to gentoo as their first Linux. Many of them >>>> are poorly informed about both Linux and Gentoo - I don't know how >>>> to reach this group *before* they start asking for help in #gentoo >>>> and on the forums. Thats the sort problem we have to solve. >>>> >>>> >>> Roy, >>> >>> Towards a solution to this particular issue above, I suggest Gentoo >>> provides a documentation project (possibly) entitled "Learning Linux >>> with Gentoo". Within this we could easily address many issues faced >>> by new Linux/Gentoo users. >>> >>> As always, I offer my assistance/support in the aforementioned >>> endeavor. >>> >> Matthew, >> >> I think this is a good idea. However, one of the issues is that a body >> of new users is not even aware of the existance of the current >> documentation. >> >> e.g. How to head off questions like "I've just started the minimal CD >> to install Gentoo but all I get is a black screen with some text at the >> bottom. Where do I click to install Gentoo?" >> >> I'm not 100% sure it wasn't a troll but as this represents a class of >> problems seen on the forums, I'm sure that some are genuine. >> > > Maybe a quick Q&A for newcomers is needed? A kind of precis of what > there already is with links to the longer documents? > I have to say all this sounds like lowering the bar a little too far. While I am all for introducing newbs to Gentoo (in fact I've just got a 67-year-old and his wife, who don't know computers at all, hooked on Gentoo KDE;) that's not the same as them learning to install and administer a Genoo Linux system. I'd favour a "Why Gentoo Is Not For You" page, done as politely and respectfully as we can, pointing out that some basic *nix knowledge, including at the CLI, is pretty much mandatory for someone to be able to maintain a Gentoo box properly. (I'm not interested in the corner-cases where someone did actually manage to learn Linux on Gentoo first; sometimes exceptions prove rules.) This is not to be elitist: it's simply so that distros like Mandriva or Ubuntu, which /are/ setup for computing newbs, can fulfil that part of the learning curve. I don't think Gentoo could ever be at that stage until and unless it has the equivalent of the Mandrake Control Centre. #gentoo-guis is working towards that imo, so join there and help out if you want to make Gentoo "just work". himerge is really lush, if a bit tricky to install; insns at: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Himerge -- gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list