From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JHiWV-0008VD-K9 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:32:23 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E4867E03D0; Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:30:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99F87E03D0 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:30:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D11665842 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:30:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gentoo.org X-Spam-Score: 1.022 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.022 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=-1.046, BAYES_50=0.001, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067] Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kI-N+dkntPlx for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:30:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0211664D3A for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:30:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1JHiUt-0002wg-7A for gentoo-project@gentoo.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:30:43 +0000 Received: from 82.152.203.108 ([82.152.203.108]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:30:43 +0000 Received: from slong by 82.152.203.108 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:30:43 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org From: Steve Long Subject: [gentoo-project] Re: Re: Re: Plan, then communicate (no-list) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:37:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20080120215706.GA16357@redwoodscientific.com> <200801212018.23425.philantrop@gentoo.org> <8b4c83ad0801230650i36d9c60ejed99ddcc7c77f4e2@mail.gmail.com> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.152.203.108 User-Agent: KNode/0.10.4 Sender: news X-Archives-Salt: e51f5e2b-395e-44ef-8143-674992e402de X-Archives-Hash: 66d95ff140fc0f9cf077b0d1c863076d Nirbheek Chauhan wrote: > On Jan 23, 2008 7:23 PM, Steve Long wrote: >> Wulf C. Krueger wrote: >> >> > On Monday, 21. January 2008 19:19:12 Steve Long wrote: >> >> And when 90% say they don't like the way they get treated by Gentoo >> >> devs, there is a real issue. >> > >> > "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with >> > the average voter." - Winston Churchill >> > >> > s/voter/user/ >> > >> Churchill also said democracy is the worst form of government: apart from >> all the others. >> >> He also questioned why anyone should worry about Arabs being gassed in >> Mesopotamia, so maybe you can just speak for yourself; would you prefer >> to live under Saddam, Amin or Hitler than a democratic government? > > These statements on governance are completely irrelevant here. Er I didn't bring them up. TBH it was only an aside to the main issue of how to involve users. The rest of the discussion has in fact been about governance, so I am puzzled that you think it "completely irrelevant." > They > apply to large countries with populations in (at least) millions. For > small communities of several thousand (very small countries ie), > direct democracy works best. But even that is not relevant here, since > the responsibilities of a country's leaders are very different from > the "responsibilities" of a volunteer-run organisation. In your opinion: others clearly feel it relevant. > `Responsibilities` is in quotes because you cannot really "police" an > organisation that works for free in it's free time. > Hmm and there's no such thing as forum moderators or irc ops? > Hence, a combination of meritocracy and democracy is the best way to > run these. I'm fine with both. > The basic tenants of democracy of "equality" and "freedom" > have no meaning whatsoever in this context. Again, in your opinion. How can the "basic tenants of democracy" have nothing do with it if one is using "a combination of meritocracy and democracy"? > In fact, I'm tempted to invoke Godwin's Law at this point. > puhleez. > This is a *completely* different situation, and one simply cannot make > generalisations such as you have. > I didn't; you inferred and generalised an awful lot all on your own ;) -- gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list